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After some research I decided to take the plunge and get an SBR ar-15. I will be buying a new lower so do I buy and register the lower as a rifle first or do I start with the paperwork. I will not be going the trust route so do I just send in the form 1 http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf along with my fingerprints and $200?
Are you going to SBR a non SBR lower or are you buying a registered SBR lower?
I was planning on buying a new/unregistered lower online. A noveske chainsaw to be exact. Do I specify when ordering it that it will be a SBR?
The paperwork asks for a SN so I assume I would need the lower first
TriggerHappy
09-13-2012, 21:11
So are you going LLC or individual transfer? Most likely use a Form 4, unless you are going to cut a barrel. But be careful with that, it can definitely affect function of the gas system.
TriggerHappy
09-13-2012, 21:14
I was planning on buying a new/unregistered lower online. A noveske chainsaw to be exact. Do I specify when ordering it that it will be a SBR?
The paperwork asks for a SN so I assume I would need the lower first
I would order the lower, then send in the form. Just so you know the SN is correct. No need to specify, your intent.
Also non factory sbr lowers are suppose to be engraved.
What length are you thinking?
I was planning on buying a new/unregistered lower online. A noveske chainsaw to be exact. Do I specify when ordering it that it will be a SBR?
No need to specify that it will be an SBR. They don't really care.
The very basic major steps:
1) Buy the lower
2) Take possession of said lower
3) Fill out Form 1
4) Get fingerprints done -- may be switched with 5 depending on your CLEO
5) Get CLEO sign off -- may be switched with 4 depending on your CLEO
6) Write check for $200
7) Put all the paperwork in mail
8) Wait..
9) Get approval (stamp will come in mail).
9a) Make a copy of said stamp/form and put original someplace safe
10) Buy or make your short barreled upper and attach to lower from above
11) Enjoy.
You can get your lower engraved at any point in the process. Don't get wrapped around the axle about doing before or after you have approval.
Congrats on getting started stamp collecting. Just a warning - its addictive.
Most likely use a Form 4
I wouldn't go the Form 4 route. Costs twice as much.
$200 for the maker to make the SBR and get it in the registry
$200 for the dealer to transfer it to you
Just buy a normal lower and form 1 it yourself. Unless you really want the whole factory SBR thing (has their engraving vs. yours).
As a refresher:
A Form 1 is required to make and register a new NFA item.
A Form 3 is used when transferring an existing registered NFA item between two FFL/SOTs (dealers or manufacturers).
A Form 4 is used to transfer an existing registered NFA item from a dealer or manufacturer in your state to an unlicensed individual.
for the curious: A Form 2 is required to make and register a new NFA item IF you are Type 07 or Type 10 FFL (in which case you do this instead of a Form 1)
unless you are going to cut a barrel. But be careful with that, it can definitely affect function of the gas system.
Don't ever cut your own barrel (unless you have tens of thousands of dollars in equipment and know what your doing).
Just buy a short barreled upper. No paperwork needed. Buy one online from BCM and have it FedEx'd to your house the next day. Its not a firearm so there is no paperwork. Its the simplest and quickest part of the whole SBR process.
Its stupid I know - but welcome to the ATF.
No need to specify that it will be an SBR. They don't really care.
The very basic major steps:
1) Buy the lower
2) Take possession of said lower
So for step 1/2, I just buy the lower and go through an FFL just like I would if I were building a non-NFA rifle? That makes sense.
Thank you all for your help. To answer some questions: I am going the individual route, not a trust. I dont have an upper or lower for this build yet (and wont buy the upper until I get the stamp) I plan on doing a noveske MK18 build.
Remember the paperwork must be double sided.
1) Buy the lower
2) Take possession of said lower
3) Fill out Form 1
4) Get fingerprints done -- may be switched with 5 depending on your CLEO
5) Get CLEO sign off -- may be switched with 4 depending on your CLEO
6) Write check for $200
7) Put all the paperwork in mail
8) Wait..
9) Get approval (stamp will come in mail).
9a) Make a copy of said stamp/form and put original someplace safe
10) Buy or make your short barreled upper and attach to lower from above
11) Enjoy.
You forgot "engrave the lower with your name, city and state" somewhere in there (exactly when to engrave was the topic of a lively debate in here a couple weeks ago).
You must engrave the receiver with the above information when you "make" it via the Form 1. It must be visible and unobscured by anything else on the rifle. This is one of the advantages of buying an SBR -- you don't have to mark it up with that engraving. Of course, from the time you select the SBR you want to when you actually get to possess it could be on the order of a year that way. Going the Form 1 route allows you to possess and even shoot the rifle (with a barrel longer than 16") while you're waiting on the stamp.
O2
Or if you get a virgin lower and 4473 the lower as a pistol or other under type of weapon you can have a working short barreled gun with no shoulder stock.
You forgot "engrave the lower with your name, city and state" somewhere in there (exactly when to engrave was the topic of a lively debate in here a couple weeks ago).
O2
No I didn't..
You can get your lower engraved at any point in the process. Don't get wrapped around the axle about doing before or after you have approval.
Great-Kazoo
09-14-2012, 07:52
FWIW: Check with MGT (machine gun tours) They might have factory SBR lowers in stock.
Up north here Bear Arms in Windsor has a few Factory SBR configurations. I was handling a SIG and a few other SBR's.
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/sig516-cqb-10-sbr.aspx
Looks like i found my next SBR. it's a nice light handling unit.
I like the factory vs. Form 1 SBR since i could if needed, sell it quicker as there needs no engraving of my info on it.
Yes i am aware there is a longer wait time if the rifle or Lower receiver is not in stock. However whats another 2 months ?
Call Alan @ MGT or Dave @ Bear Arms
No I didn't..
Yup, my mistake, I was looking at the list!
O2
Or if you get a virgin lower and 4473 the lower as a pistol or other under type of weapon you can have a working short barreled gun with no shoulder stock.
It will eventually be a duty gun so I want the stock.
FWIW: Check with MGT (machine gun tours) They might have factory SBR lowers in stock.
Up north here Bear Arms in Windsor has a few Factory SBR configurations. I was handling a SIG and a few other SBR's.
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/sig516-cqb-10-sbr.aspx
Looks like i found my next SBR. it's a nice light handling unit.
I like the factory vs. Form 1 SBR since i could if needed, sell it quicker as there needs no engraving of my info on it.
Yes i am aware there is a longer wait time if the rifle or Lower receiver is not in stock. However whats another 2 months ?
Call Alan @ MGT or Dave @ Bear Arms
Thanks Jim, I'm not too far from MGT so that is a viable option
Great-Kazoo
09-14-2012, 17:10
It will eventually be a duty gun so I want the stock.
Your dept allows personal SBR's, nice.
Your dept allows personal SBR's, nice.
I'm not with a dept. yet (still in academy) but the departments I'm looking at allow personal rifles. I have not confirmed that SBR's are allowed but I don't see why not. Especially since one dept. I'm looking at issues select fire m16's to the guys that don't have their own rifles.
John Rogers at Adamson Police Products in Longmont may still have some Colt SBR's in stock.
JM Ver. 2.0
09-15-2012, 20:25
I'm not with a dept. yet (still in academy) but the departments I'm looking at allow personal rifles. I have not confirmed that SBR's are allowed but I don't see why not. Especially since one dept. I'm looking at issues select fire m16's to the guys that don't have their own rifles.
Fuck Aurora and Thornton. I wanna work there! Where the hell is that agency?!
Fuck Aurora and Thornton. I wanna work there! Where the hell is that agency?!
Haha. Lafayette has the m16's (as told by a Sgt. from there) They are Vietnam style but still, that's pretty awesome.
Great-Kazoo
09-16-2012, 22:08
Haha. Lafayette has the m16's (as told by a Sgt. from there) They are Vietnam style but still, that's pretty awesome.
I gaurantee they are under tight lock & key. I know 3 depts along the front range that received select fire M-14's from the DOW. If you knew what they paid for them, your heart would stop beating. There are some firearm deals that fed agencies are able to pass on to local le dpets for almost nothing. Interesting how some of the same agencies who own them will not sign off on nfa forms.
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