Feed problems with my new AR

[kwando]

Built my first AR... Spikes lower with a Delton upper (bare with me if i am using the wrong terms, I am still a newbie)

First two mags of brass 30 rounds fed fine. Then I tried Tula, and it had problems feeding.

It happened all day and was very frustrating, but i tried to stay positive and turn it into a learning experience.

Here are the symptoms:

The ammo would start feeding into the ramp but get stuck. Almost like there was not enough to cycle the bolt entirely. I can push the fwd assist and sometimes it would finish the feed.

I noticed the mag was not entirely seated sometimes when this occured so i slapped the mag and it fed fine. So i tightened the mag release one spin (but now the release is no longer flush with the mag release button, is that ok)

Still was doing it, tried multiple mags. Even on brass it was having this problem.

Could it be short stroking? Any ideas would help and again i am a newbie.

http://simontangphotography.smugmug.com/Other/SmugShots-1/i-q9SrSBW/0/L/smugshot6655548-L.jpg

[BPTactical]

Built my first AR... Spikes lower with a Delton upper (bare with me if i am using the wrong terms, I am still a newbie)

First two mags of brass 30 rounds fed fine. Then I tried Tula, and it had problems feeding.

It happened all day and was very frustrating, but i tried to stay positive and turn it into a learning experience.

Here are the symptoms:

The ammo would start feeding into the ramp but get stuck. Almost like there was not enough to cycle the bolt entirely. I can push the fwd assist and sometimes it would finish the feed.

I noticed the mag was not entirely seated sometimes when this occured so i slapped the mag and it fed fine. So i tightened the mag release one spin (but now the release is no longer flush with the mag release button, is that ok)

Still was doing it, tried multiple mags. Even on brass it was having this problem.

Could it be short stroking? Any ideas would help and again i am a newbie.

http://simontangphotography.smugmug.com/Other/SmugShots-1/i-q9SrSBW/0/L/smugshot6655548-L.jpg

What gas block are you using? Make sure it did not loosen or shift.
Stay away from the steel cased stuff for a myriad of reasons.
Check the gas key on top of the bolt carrier, make sure it is tight and staked correctly.
Did this occur with just one particular mag or all mags?
Did you detect any change in recoil or report compared to the first 60 rounds?

[kwando]

Gas block is a YHM low profile. It is fine, I'll remove the FF to make sure

Multiple mags, gas block is staked fine it is a BCM BCG.

I will perform a thorough cleaning and take it out next weekend again.

[mutt]

Stop using Tula. It's not known for quality. I don't recommend using steel while you are trying to troubleshoot an AR. Once you can get it running correctly with quality brass cased ammo, then you can start tinkering with better steel ammo like Wolf.

What brand of brass cased ammo?

What weight buffer are you using? (I am assuming you have a collapsible stock)

Lube? Is the BCG well lubed?

Load a few mags with just 1 round of good ammo (preferably a hotter 5.56 load like m193). After firing that 1 round, does the bolt lock open like it should on each and every mag?

[dwalker460]

Are you shooting .223 or 5.56? There is a difference in the way they will cycle.

[jerrymrc]

I will add a little as well. First. It is a brand new gun and needs rounds to be broken in. I would not even think about steel cased ammo until you have many rounds down range.

Many AR's just will not shoot the steel cased stuff.

There are tricks to helping the break in process but I will leave them for you to work on. I have built many guns of many types and understand what is going on in them. I will NOT play gunsmith because I am not one but take a look at your brass cases.

You may find your answer there. And yes Tula is low powered. My two 5.56 AR's will shoot it but one will not lock the bolt back with it. The SAR3 eats it all day long.

You say the Tula has problems feeding. From the last round or from the locked back bolt? Think about this. [Flower]

Not trying to bust your balls just trying to get you to think about the processes that go on in a semi auto gun and there is a lot going on. [Beer]

[kwando]

Stop using Tula. It's not known for quality. I don't recommend using steel while you are trying to troubleshoot an AR. Once you can get it running correctly with quality brass cased ammo, then you can start tinkering with better steel ammo like Wolf.

What brand of brass cased ammo?

What weight buffer are you using? (I am assuming you have a collapsible stock)

Lube? Is the BCG well lubed?

Load a few mags with just 1 round of good ammo (preferably a hotter 5.56 load like m193). After firing that 1 round, does the bolt lock open like it should on each and every mag?


Not sure on the weight of the buffer, can i measure it? It was part of a LPK.

I can honestly say i didn't lube the BCG that much, i am am use to my bushmaster that needed very little lube and shot everything. So when this gun started having problems i brought out the bushy and it was having problems also, so i suspected ammo.

I will clean in thoroughly and lube everything and try again next weekend... unfortunately it will just be CC...



Are you shooting .223 or 5.56? There is a difference in the way they will cycle.

Ammo was .223, going to try to get some 5.56 xm193 and try it as well.



I will add a little as well. First. It is a brand new gun and needs rounds to be broken in. I would not even think about steel cased ammo until you have many rounds down range.

Many AR's just will not shoot the steel cased stuff.

There are tricks to helping the break in process but I will leave them for you to work on. I have built many guns of many types and understand what is going on in them. I will NOT play gunsmith because I am not one but take a look at your brass cases.

You may find your answer there. And yes Tula is low powered. My two 5.56 AR's will shoot it but one will not lock the bolt back with it. The SAR3 eats it all day long.

You say the Tula has problems feeding. From the last round or from the locked back bolt? Think about this. [Flower]

Not trying to bust your balls just trying to get you to think about the processes that go on in a semi auto gun and there is a lot going on. [Beer]


Thanks for the tips, i only had my Pmags and was at the south site so it was a drive home to get my GI mags. I will bring more shit next time.




Thanks for the tips everyone. I will stick to brass for the next 500-1k rounds and see if i can break it in.

[NGCSUGrad09]

Add a little more lubrication next time. Usually, under lubrication causes more problems than anything else.

How much of the upper assembly did you do yourself?

[mutt]

Not sure on the weight of the buffer, can i measure it? It was part of a LPK.

It's marked on the buffer. H, H2, H3. No markings generally means it's a normal carbine buffer. Carbine length gas systems should use H (preferred) or carbine. If you have an H (or higher) you can try a carbine buffer. Under powered ammo (steel and some .223) sometimes have problems cycling with a heavier buffer and they will short stroke.

Also, check the length of your action spring and make sure they didn't accidentally send you a rifle length spring. A carbine spring should be between 10 1/16- 11.25 inches long.



I can honestly say i didn't lube the BCG that much, i am am use to my bushmaster that needed very little lube and shot everything. So when this gun started having problems i brought out the bushy and it was having problems also, so i suspected ammo.

I will clean in thoroughly and lube everything and try again next weekend... unfortunately it will just be CC...


You should lube the contact surfaces on the carrier and the bolt lugs. You should also put a few drops in the two holes in the carrier to lube the gas rings. I know some guys just soak the entire BCG in oil but I think that's unnecessary. I've run BCG bone dry as an academic experiment and the rifles cycled fine, even with steel. While over lubing may cause issues to go away, I generally think you're just masking the real problem.

I think your short stroking issues are ammo related. Take the ammo out of the equation first by using hot 5.56 like m193. If you can go through say 40 mags loaded with 5 rounds each (200 rounds) without feeding or bolt locking failures, then you can be confident that the rifle is probably fine and move on to steel. But ditch the Tula. Most people have problems with that brand. I've shot probably 10k of wolf between all my ARs and never had cycling issues. I've just had the occasional click due to a dud round.

[colorider]

My LMT will shoot any brass ammo I give it. Have tried about a dozen so far and thousands of rounds. Not one problem. I can't shoot 2 tula rounds without having a problem.

[kwando]

Will try to get to a range this week/end with some xm193. And a well lubed BCG and hope it cycles fine

[dwalker460]

What day are you going? Might be up for a trip to the range myself!

[kwando]

Dunno yet, will have to be after work sometime. But it's hard with an 18 month old at home and both my wife and I work FT. If you want to PM me your number I'll call you ahead of time

[bimmer]

I had a dpms that had a few problems with that ammo, but not that bad. I've shot just over 1,000 rounds through my BCM of Pmc bronze without a single issue. Even after only cleaning once at 500 rnds. I keep it lubed up though. I haven't tried thule ammo yet because I don't like cleaning up the mess it leaves haha.

[kwando]

Was out with dwalker460 today and it shot flawlessly!! Started with 5.56 xm193, then switched to Tula and it still shot fine...

[20X11]

Cool...sounds like it is breaking in properly. And I'm sure the lube helped as well.

[kwando]

Yea I tried that frog lube

[ANADRILL]

My colt m4 will not cycle tula....:(

[clark]

Yea I tried that frog lube

Yup that frog lube is damn good stuff, works well whether i shoot a couple hundred rounds or a thousand rounds, never had ANY issues at all and makes cleaning a very simple easy process. Can't say enough good about it.