Flight Attendant Brings Gun To Airport, Police Unload It The Hard Way

[Inconel710]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/09/flight-attendant-tries-to-bring-loaded-gun-through-airport-security/




Flight Attendant Tries to Bring Loaded Gun Through Airport Security


A Republic Airlines flight attendant was detained and then charged with disorderly conduct after she attempted to pass through security at the Philadelphia International Airport with a loaded .38 revolver in her purse, triggering an incident in which police accidentally discharged the weapon while securing it, authorities said.

According to officials, at 6:33 a.m. today, the flight attendant entered a Terminal C security checkpoint lane with a loaded .38 caliber Smith and Wesson Airweight revolver in her purse.

A Transportation Security Administration employee discovered the gun on the x-ray machine and notified police.

The flight attendant was taken to secondary screening room, where an airport police officer attempted to unload the gun, and it discharged into a wall.

There were no injuries to passengers, employees or police, officials said.

The flight attendant, identified by ABC station WPVI-TV in Philadelphia as Jaclyn Luby, of West Chester, Pa., had a valid Chester County permit to carry a concealed weapon, police said.

The permit was confiscated and forwarded to the Chester County Sheriff, and the weapon — an Airweight revolver — was confiscated by the crime scene unit and transported to for testing.

She was charged with disorderly conduct, as per Airport Unit policy.

The officer who accidentally discharged the flight attendant’s gun is on desk duty pending completion of an internal investigation, police said

The Airweight is a small frame, aluminum alloy, short barrel personal defense revolver and is among the most popular of these.

DOH! What an idiot. At what point in unloading any weapon, does your finger belong on the trigger?

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[Ridge]

dont bash.

TSA isn't law enforcement, we should be okay [ROFL1]

[Inconel710]

dont bash.

Idiot bashing is not OK anymore? What purpose is there for the Internet then? Oh, right, cat videos. Sorry I forgot.

I hadn't read the other thread before posting, but seriously, this is not cop bashing. The fact that this particular idiot was employed by airport police simply illustrates his poor choice of vocation.

[Irving]

What does the gun need testing for?

[Ronin13]

TSA isn't law enforcement, we should be okay [ROFL1]

Well the id10t was a cop, not a TSA person.... But I agree with the sentiment, he should have known better. Guess that's PA for you... [Tooth]

[Bailey Guns]

DOH! What an idiot. At what point in unloading any weapon, does your finger belong on the trigger?

Umm...at the point when you wanna shoot a round through the wall?

[Delfuego]

There are no accidental discharges, only negligent ones...

[rondog]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/funnies/facepalmmontage_zpsa3958d94.jpg

[TFOGGER]

It says the flight attendant was charged, but doesn't say anything about if the cop was disciplined in any way for discharging a firearm in an airport...

[KevDen2005]

Well the flight attendant should have known better than to bring the gun to the airport, but she should certainly fight the charge, that's ridiculous. I feel a little bad for her because she might lose her permit over the incident.

So...

During a somewhat bigger arrest involving a felon with guns two different guns were located in the person's house. One of these guns was a .38, I believe Smith and Wesson and pretty old. I am not a revolver guy so I don't know much about them. The gun was loaded and the hammer was cocked all the way to the rear...as if to use immediately by the suspect. I first made several attempts to open the cylinder to remove the live rounds and not attempt to ride the hammer forward...I don't wanna be a cop that makes the news. However, it was determined (correct me if I'm wrong) that the cylinder would not open with the hammer to the rear. The hammer had to be ridden forward on a loaded chamber to unload the gun.

I'm not claiming this is what happened at PA, I'm just giving an example.

[KevDen2005]

It says the flight attendant was charged, but doesn't say anything about if the cop was disciplined in any way for discharging a firearm in an airport...

I'm sure he will be.

[TFOGGER]

Well the flight attendant should have known better than to bring the gun to the airport, but she should certainly fight the charge, that's ridiculous. I feel a little bad for her because she might lose her permit over the incident.

So...

During a somewhat bigger arrest involving a felon with guns two different guns were located in the person's house. One of these guns was a .38, I believe Smith and Wesson and pretty old. I am not a revolver guy so I don't know much about them. The gun was loaded and the hammer was cocked all the way to the rear...as if to use immediately by the suspect. I first made several attempts to open the cylinder to remove the live rounds and not attempt to ride the hammer forward...I don't wanna be a cop that makes the news. However, it was determined (correct me if I'm wrong) that the cylinder would not open with the hammer to the rear. The hammer had to be ridden forward on a loaded chamber to unload the gun.

I'm not claiming this is what happened at PA, I'm just giving an example.

Quite possible that this is the case. At least it was pointed in a safe(ish) direction when it discharged. Most revolvers i have handled have a half cock position that will allow the cylinder to be opened, but I'm not that familiar with the weapon in question.

[KevDen2005]

Quite possible that this is the case. At least it was pointed in a safe(ish) direction when it discharged. Most revolvers i have handled have a half cock position that will allow the cylinder to be opened, but I'm not that familiar with the weapon in question.

If you were referring to my situation I can tell you that I don't know if the revolver had a half cock position to allow the cylinder to turn. My point was even though I did not want to it was a situation that I believe the only way to unload the weapon was to place a finger on the trigger and ride the hammer forward (either to half cock or all the way). Again, I am open to suggestions if anyone thinks this was wrong or if there is a better way. And yes, I did inform other officers and kept the weapon in the safest place possible.

As for the PA incident, I have no idea what the circumstances of the gun were.

[Ronin13]

I'm sure he will be.

I thought the article said that he was riding a desk until they completed the investigation... I like your example, maybe that's what happened. I haven't handled a lot of wheel guns myself, so if I ever had to deal with one, I'm sure my ignorance on the operations of one would be a cause for me to remain attentive at all times.

[cysoto]

TSA isn't law enforcement, we should be okay [ROFL1]

TSA probably found it but, once a firearm is identified in screening, case jurisdiction is passed on to LE.

[cysoto]

Quite possible that this is the case. At least it was pointed in a safe(ish) direction when it discharged. Most revolvers i have handled have a half cock position that will allow the cylinder to be opened, but I'm not that familiar with the weapon in question.

The article mentioned that the officer was assigned to desk duty pending investigation. It also mentions that the firearm is an Airweight revolver, none of which (to the best of my knowledge) have a half-cock notch. If a Smith & Wesson Airweight was indeed the firearm that was negligently discharged, this may only have happened by pulling on the revolver's trigger.

[Teufelhund]

What does the gun need testing for?

That was my first thought too.

A revolver kept in a purse typically doesn't have an exposed hammer.

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[dwalker460]

Yes I believe all airweights (with the possible exception of a Chiefs Special?) are DAO. The only way to discharge it is to pull the trigger.

[rondog]

If you were referring to my situation I can tell you that I don't know if the revolver had a half cock position to allow the cylinder to turn. My point was even though I did not want to it was a situation that I believe the only way to unload the weapon was to place a finger on the trigger and ride the hammer forward (either to half cock or all the way). Again, I am open to suggestions if anyone thinks this was wrong or if there is a better way. And yes, I did inform other officers and kept the weapon in the safest place possible.

As for the PA incident, I have no idea what the circumstances of the gun were.

True about the Airweights and some other DAO revolvers, but most double-action revolvers with hammers can't be opened if the hammer is cocked. The trigger has to be pulled and the hammer has to be ridden down first. Very safe and easy to do, I can't see where anybody could screw that up. Point it in a safe direction first, of course. Ideally towards a barrel of sand intended for pointing guns towards for unloading, or into a large flower/plant planter full of dirt, or towards the ground (not a hard floor or pavement), etc.

[dwalker460]

I think you mean a SA (single action) revolver, as a double action revolver cannot be cocked, at all.

[rondog]

I think you mean a SA (single action) revolver, as a double action revolver cannot be cocked, at all.

Sure they can! Any double-action revolver with a hammer can be cocked and used single-action. Now, double-action-only revolvers like the Airweights are different, no hammers.

[dwalker460]

S&W airweights, with the exception of the Chiefs Special, are "hammerless" and AFAIK cannot be fired SA. I could be wrong though, and a Chiefs Special can be fired SA, but an unlikely choice for a purse gun.

[cysoto]

Now, double-action-only revolvers like the Airweights are different, no hammers.

Some of the Airweight models have an exposed hammer that can be manually cocked allowing the gun to be fired in SA; for example S&W Model 637 & 638 but neither of these can be set to half-cock.

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[Teufelhund]

basically, only the 642, 442, 340, 640, 43c, and 351c are all double action only. the last two are .22lr and .22 mag. she was probably carrying a 642 or 442. somebody screwed up. or is a dumbass or both.

Nailed it.

[Clint45]

The S&W "Bodyguard Airwieght" model 438/638 is the shrouded hammer version which CAN be cocked to fire SA, but CANNOT safely be decocked over a live round because the hammer spring is too strong and the exposed portion of the spur is a tiny nub which will slip very easily. It is safer to decock a bobbed hammer Chief's Special or even manually decock a shaved hammer 3913 (NOT recommended) than to decock a 438.

I tried this once at a range and did it successfully without a discharge, but I put the gun up for sale that same day. It is an incredibly poor design. This is one case where the Charter Arms version (On Duty) is better than a Smith.

However, anyone CARRYING a cocked revolver in their purse is too stupid to own firearms.

[Monky]

Uhh.. who's to say it was cocked in her purse?

The LEO could simply be an idiot. I don't fool around w/ guns I know nothing about.. someone handed me a luger at the range once and I had no idea where anything was on it, didn't stop me from asking.

Being a cop doesn't make him a master gunsmith.. he's still able to make the same mistakes as all of us.

It also does not exclude him from being called an idiot for having a ND. Plenty of other people have been called such for it.

Being a flight attendant doesn't exclude the lady from being a dumbass for taking it in the first place.

I don't think she should have been charged, and had the office not discharged the revolver who knows what would have happened.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Those Airweights are pretty darn light. I could see how a woman with a large purse with a lot in it might have forgotten she had left the revolver in it, especially if it's not her normal CCW. I need more info to understand why the officer had an ND and can't judge or criticize until I know how and why the ND occurred.

[OneGuy67]

What does the gun need testing for?

The testing is done to determine if the firearm has had any alterations to it from the factory norm, such as a lightened trigger, bobbed hammer, or the like, or if there was some sort of mechanical failure that might have caused the discharge.

It is standard practice in a firearm related incident to have the firearm tested. The results of the testing are added to the rest of the evidence in the incident for the totality of evidence.

[tmleadr03]

I don't know if that is truly an accurate title. I find it actually takes more effort to unload a pistol by dropping a mag and popping the rounds out one at a time. Just pulling a trigger? Easy!

[Irving]

The testing is done to determine if the firearm has had any alterations to it from the factory norm, such as a lightened trigger, bobbed hammer, or the like, or if there was some sort of mechanical failure that might have caused the discharge.

It is standard practice in a firearm related incident to have the firearm tested. The results of the testing are added to the rest of the evidence in the incident for the totality of evidence.

I guess that makes some sense, but if the gun wasn't involved in a crime, I don't see why it should be taken at all.

[cysoto]

Just pulling a trigger? Easy!
True, though some airport patrons may complain about the noise. [Tooth]

[KevDen2005]

I guess that makes some sense, but if the gun wasn't involved in a crime, I don't see why it should be taken at all.

The gun was involved in a crime. Firing it in the airport I believe would be a crime. Not to mention the other portion of taking it through security.

[cysoto]

The gun was involved in a crime. Firing it in the airport I believe would be a crime. Not to mention the other portion of taking it through security.

This is correct! Trying to carry a weapon past a TSA checkpoint is a chargeable offense under 49 C.F.R. § 1540.111(a).*

*Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, an individual may not have a weapon, explosive, or incendiary, on or about the individual's person or accessible property.

[Irving]

I knew that was coming! I have to back pedle now. lt sounds like the testing was to see if there was any reason the gun went off, besides negligence.

[KevDen2005]

Say there was a serious malfunction with the weapon that was mechanical and the officer was disciplined for the ND, that wouldn't be right or fair...however if the gun tests turn out that there is nothing at all wrong with the gun the officer can't claim that their was something wrong when they do hand down disciplinary action.

[KevDen2005]

I knew that was coming! I have to back pedle now. lt sounds like the testing was to see if there was any reason the gun went off, besides negligence.

Agreed...didn't want to sound like a jerk but more like a smart a$$ when I answered before

[OneGuy67]

I guess that makes some sense, but if the gun wasn't involved in a crime, I don't see why it should be taken at all.

The firearm is evidence. It may not have been taken solely for the unlawful possession at the airport, but definitely due to the discharge. The firearm testing will be done. If there isn't anything wrong with the firearm, then that will give weight to the officer's negligence. If there is an issue with the firearm, then that will add weight to the officer not necessarily being solely responsible for the negligent discharge.

In most cases, the firearm is returned as long as it isn't being used as evidence in a criminal act and needs to be retained.

[OneGuy67]

Say there was a serious malfunction with the weapon that was mechanical and the officer was disciplined for the ND, that wouldn't be right or fair...however if the gun tests turn out that there is nothing at all wrong with the gun the officer can't claim that their was something wrong when they do hand down disciplinary action.

And...Kevin beats me to the punch!

[cstone]

I guess that makes some sense, but if the gun wasn't involved in a crime, I don't see why it should be taken at all.

Taking a loaded firearm into an airport checkpoint is a crime (late to the party, as others have covered this).

My S&W Models 15 and 19, both with exposed hammers need to be decocked before the cylinder will open. It isn't comfortable, but when I need to, I point the revolver in a safe direction with my finger off the trigger. I put my little (pinkey) finger just under the firing pin, then place my finger on the trigger and ride the hammer forward with my thumb on the hammer. Once the hammer has moved about half way, I remove my little finger and ride the hammer the rest of the way down with my thumb. It takes some practice, and for those not used to revolvers, it can make you nervous the first few times. Anyone who would like to practice, PM me and I'm sure we can work something out at an appropriate range facility.

Be safe.

[KevDen2005]

And...Kevin beats me to the punch!

I gotta sound smart like you once in a while....

and don't you think I could be a good administrator someday with a response like that? [Coffee]

[TFOGGER]

Say there was a serious malfunction with the weapon that was mechanical and the officer was disciplined for the ND, that wouldn't be right or fair...however if the gun tests turn out that there is nothing at all wrong with the gun the officer can't claim that their was something wrong when they do hand down disciplinary action.

That might explain the first round, but the next 4.....[ROFL1]

[SideShow Bob]

That might explain the first round, but the next 4.....[ROFL1]

Muscle memory from years of training. Keep pulling the trigger until the slide locks back, eject magazine, insert new magazine, hit the slide release and repeat the above.........[LOL]

[sniper7]

Sounds like she forgot...just like other people have done, some have made it through security and turned themselves in later, the other you never heard about because they didn't say shit!

As to the officer, he fucked up. bottom line. Hopefully he can get "re-training" and not lose his job since no one was hurt. Hopefully the flight attendant can keep her job, maybe lose her permit for a short time if they need to "discipline" her but hopefully she can get it back. mistakes happen, everyone has made them. If it weren't for the TSA, people living in fear all the time, etc etc, this would be an non issue as people carry guns on our trains, roads, cars, malls, etc etc etc all over the place every day.

[OneGuy67]

I gotta sound smart like you once in a while....

and don't you think I could be a good administrator someday with a response like that? [Coffee]

Don't tell me you have upward mobility aspirations!! You'll need a lobotomy.

[cstone]

Don't tell me you have upward mobility aspirations!! You'll need a lobotomy.

1" from the John Thomas for every promotion. To get promoted faster, you also have to have three vertebrae removed with each promotion. To compete in the high pressure world of politics you must irradiate your brain cells. By the time you get to the top, you are brainless, spineless, and... well yes d***less.

I thought this was required in every department. [Flower]

[Irving]

Can you carry on a train, or just in checked luggage?

[OneGuy67]

Can you carry on a train, or just in checked luggage?

The Director of TSA is lobbying for his agency to take over security of all the trains, arguing they should be in charge of all security of any transportation conveyance. Can you imagine? Easily, the worst thing the Bush Administration did was to create this abortion.

[centrarchidae]

Can you carry on a train, or just in checked luggage?

On an RTD train, yes. RTD had a no-weapons policy, but that seems to been invalidated with the CU ruling and now they're part of Colorado again.

On AmTrak, only in checked luggage. AmTrak thinks they're just like a bankrupt version of an airline.

If there are any other passenger lines in Colorado, I don't know. Unless there are special federal rules for touristy lines like the Durango-Silverton or the Georgetown Loop I'd assume that they're just like the rest of Colorado.

[KevDen2005]

Don't tell me you have upward mobility aspirations!! You'll need a lobotomy.

Ah, you and CStone are killing me....yes, maybe one day, because I see my spineless supervisor and think they will either love me or fire me when I promote...but not any time soon..

They wouldn't promote me anyway.

[Teufelhund]

Don't tell me you have upward mobility aspirations!! You'll need a lobotomy.

Jeez, now even the cops are cop-bashing. Oh the humanity.

[OneGuy67]

Ah, you and CStone are killing me....yes, maybe one day, because I see my spineless supervisor and think they will either love me or fire me when I promote...but not any time soon..

They wouldn't promote me anyway.

I got an email from your city indicating they are accepting apps. Then I saw your starting salary...wow. it was lower than what it should be, given the salaries of neighboring agencies. I guess I will stay put.

[KevDen2005]

I got an email from your city indicating they are accepting apps. Then I saw your starting salary...wow. it was lower than what it should be, given the salaries of neighboring agencies. I guess I will stay put.

I tried to tell you before...crappy pay and no lateral program. You have too much knowledge to be starting over.