View Full Version : Dealing with issues at the office
No it's not what you all think (down Jim... [Coffee])-
Here's the quick rundown- On Sept. 9 we got a call from one of the other office owners in our building stating that there was a failure with a water heater in one of the offices and it flooded 2/3 of the building. The flood occurred on the 8th and ran it's course for a day and a half (roughly). There were 5 offices affected by this issue, the office where it originated, the office below (the owner who called us), the office next to his downstairs, a vacant- bank owned- office, the 3rd office downstairs (roughly below us) and the lawyer's office next door to us. Everyone has been pretty cool about the whole thing despite our Allied Claims Adjuster showing up on the Thursday after the flood, when the others showed up on Monday and Tuesday. Allied, via us, our agency, covers the building, while the other offices have their individual policies covering mostly personal property.
Here's the issue- the lady who owns the unit downstairs hired an environmental scientist because of concern about mold and fungus. She wanted her guy to do it, and they even got an attorney involved (not our neighbor). They found mold and deemed that it was a health hazard. To prevent the spread (even though it was on for a week) the HVAC had to be shut off. However, wouldn't the damage already be done if the HVAC had been on for 8 days prior to them shutting it off? This lady has been very difficult through this whole ordeal, and her hippy ways are really starting to get under our skin. She says that she won't allow rebuilding on her unit to begin until the mold is dealt with- so until then no HVAC-- all well and good since she isn't conducting any business in the building until her unit is rebuilt, but the three remaining offices that are still operating? The lawyer next door has already sent her a message saying that we are still without HVAC service until she figures her shit out and gets the problem fixed.
Does anyone here know anything about mold and fungus mitigation and removal? How long does this take? This lady is trying to slow down this whole process, but we're here and she's not, so we have to deal with the rebuild and everything, not to mention no HVAC- which is okay for now, but when it starts getting cold I might have to dig out my sweaters! Also, do we need to worry about the spread of mold and fungus into our unit since they didn't shut off the HVAC until 8 days later? I don't think we could handle a shut down if they found mold in our office- we pretty much spend every dollar we make here...
dwalker460
09-25-2012, 11:14
Honestly it sounds like she is delaying in order to screw someone- the insurance company or the property owner- out of $$. She will be able to claim she lost revenue and had other damages during this period of mold mitigation or whatever and will have a strong enough case that someone is going to end up paying her.
Environmental Scientist, who get paid, should be held with a lot of skepticism and the property owner and insurance companies BOTH should have their own experts in for evaluation. There are LOTS of different kinds of mold, and most of them are not dangerous to us humans.
Not telling you what to do, but if this were happening in my building (and it could) I would
a> hire an outside mold expert and get the real skinny. Make SURE you hire the one who has the best reputation and the most to lose if they make a wrong diagnosis.
b>send the wench a formal letter stating that due to her interference repairs are not being made in a timely manner and its costing you damages, which you will seek to recover if things are not expedited accordingly. Not having HVAC can aggravate many things, including affecting your customer relations. Have your attorney draft it.
c>Contact the property owner and see where they stand. If they arent with you then you NEED to make sure you talk to your legal counsel every step of the way. Remember this is your livelihood, and inconvenience is one thing, loss of revenue another.
It depends if the units are owned, ie condos, or rented. If she is a tenant screw her. If a condo, often there is a HOA, use that to keep working.
What standing does she have to make the whole building bake.
Mold removal: bleach.
Honestly it sounds like she is delaying in order to screw someone- the insurance company or the property owner- out of $$. She will be able to claim she lost revenue and had other damages during this period of mold mitigation or whatever and will have a strong enough case that someone is going to end up paying her.
Environmental Scientist, who get paid, should be held with a lot of skepticism and the property owner and insurance companies BOTH should have their own experts in for evaluation. There are LOTS of different kinds of mold, and most of them are not dangerous to us humans.
Not telling you what to do, but if this were happening in my building (and it could) I would
a> hire an outside mold expert and get the real skinny. Make SURE you hire the one who has the best reputation and the most to lose if they make a wrong diagnosis.
b>send the wench a formal letter stating that due to her interference repairs are not being made in a timely manner and its costing you damages, which you will seek to recover if things are not expedited accordingly. Not having HVAC can aggravate many things, including affecting your customer relations. Have your attorney draft it.
c>Contact the property owner and see where they stand. If they arent with you then you NEED to make sure you talk to your legal counsel every step of the way. Remember this is your livelihood, and inconvenience is one thing, loss of revenue another.
Good idea. Allied has already talked to her, and us, about getting their own inspectors here, but haven't heard a peep since Friday. The demolition guys, I assume, are all done, however we also have TWO huge rollaway dumpsters taking up space in our parking lot (which isn't big to begin with). This whole thing just sucks, and they've really done a shit job of handling this...
http://i.imgur.com/jX5T6.jpg?6979
I'm not really worried about our health issues (yet), but I am worried that the inspectors will find mold/fungus in our unit and we'll be forced to re-do our unit as well. The other issue is, the attorney this lady hired is also my dad's long time friend and personal attorney as well (conflict of interest here?). We haven't seen much of a dent in revenue from all this just yet, but it may be difficult to get insurance after we part ways with Allied next year (unrelated to this) because of 2 claims in 4 years (The other claim was hail damage)- this claim is estimated to be in the $100's of thousands by the time it's all said and done.
The overall property owner isn't the brightest of guys, but he does yield to my dad's expert and professional knowledge of insurance and what not, so he's on our side for sure.
Whistler
09-25-2012, 11:29
Rent a portable self-contained A/C like the "MovinCool" or "Tripp Lite". Vents directly into the plenum and all you need to watch is the condensate container. I've used them in various offices and data centers temporarily. Might even get one of the insurers to defray the cost.
Whistler
09-25-2012, 11:31
It depends if the units are owned, ie condos, or rented. If she is a tenant screw her. If a condo, often there is a HOA, use that to keep working.
What standing does she have to make the whole building bake.
Mold removal: bleach.
Bleach doesn't kill it just turns it white, ammonia according to the last mold remediation guys I talked with.
SuperiorDG
09-25-2012, 11:32
Honestly it sounds like she is delaying in order to screw someone- the insurance company or the property owner- out of $$. She will be able to claim she lost revenue and had other damages during this period of mold mitigation or whatever and will have a strong enough case that someone is going to end up paying her.
Environmental Scientist, who get paid, should be held with a lot of skepticism and the property owner and insurance companies BOTH should have their own experts in for evaluation. There are LOTS of different kinds of mold, and most of them are not dangerous to us humans.
Not telling you what to do, but if this were happening in my building (and it could) I would
a> hire an outside mold expert and get the real skinny. Make SURE you hire the one who has the best reputation and the most to lose if they make a wrong diagnosis.
b>send the wench a formal letter stating that due to her interference repairs are not being made in a timely manner and its costing you damages, which you will seek to recover if things are not expedited accordingly. Not having HVAC can aggravate many things, including affecting your customer relations. Have your attorney draft it.
c>Contact the property owner and see where they stand. If they arent with you then you NEED to make sure you talk to your legal counsel every step of the way. Remember this is your livelihood, and inconvenience is one thing, loss of revenue another.
Thinking the same thing. [Luck]
dwalker460
09-25-2012, 11:33
The problem you are going to have is one of perception- You, a good Conservative, just want to get back to doing business and earning your living.
She, on the other hand, is likely looking at this through Hippy Pink Liberal glasses to see what she can get for nothing.
Do not forget these differences.
beast556
09-25-2012, 11:37
The whole mold thing is 98% BS. Yes I know there is certain kinds that can kill you. If you tested every office in Denver you would find some kind of mold. It has been made into a big businesses now a days. When I did proerty management we tested offices and aparments twonhomes and houses and they always found something and screwed the owners out of a lot of money for nothing. One office should only take them a few hours to do the treatment on.
StagLefty
09-25-2012, 11:44
The whole mold thing is 98% BS. Yes I know there is certain kinds that can kill you. If you tested every office in Denver you would find some kind of mold. It has been made into a big businesses now a days. When I did proerty management we tested offices and aparments twonhomes and houses and they always found something and screwed the owners out of a lot of money for nothing. One office should only take them a few hours to do the treatment on.
^ Exactly-the whole mold thing is big business and overdone to the extreme. I've been told that probably every single bathroom has some sort of mold due to the showers and toilets that probably leak even a little. [Beer]
^ Exactly-the whole mold thing is big business and overdone to the extreme. I've been told that probably every single bathroom has some sort of mold due to the showers and toilets that probably leak even a little. [Beer]
That's what we were thinking- I mean c'mon! This guy's sole job is to find something wrong. My old man made the comment to one of the other unit owners that when things like this happen it's like blood in the water- the sharks sure do get here quick!
For the record, it is condos owned by individuals under an HOA... the lady causing the fuss has been here for like 3 months, the rest of us are hoping she gets her unit rebuilt then moves.
Dwalker nailed it. Not exactly any hard SIU flags, but she certainly sounds like she is trying to inflate her loss of use claim. Run a CLUE report on her and see if she has a history of claims.
I have mentioned this in other threads.
I personally had a mold issue with my condo. Others mentioned that it maters what type of mold...they are correct about that. If it is the bad forms you need to take it very serious. I ended up with persistant sinus infections and ear infections which put pressure on the nerves to the left side of my face. Ended up with the left side of my face paralyzed for about 4 months. Couldn't taste anything...it all tasted like wax. Eye and nose ran constantly. Migrane level sinus headaches several times a week.
I would aske for a copy of their mold report and I would have one done myself.
Also...if mold is an issue you are correct that the hvac has most likely spread the spores to the entire place but how much each unit has gotten may vary greatly.
I have mentioned this in other threads.
I personally had a mold issue with my condo. Others mentioned that it maters what type of mold...they are correct about that. If it is the bad forms you need to take it very serious. I ended up with persistant sinus infections and ear infections which put pressure on the nerves to the left side of my face. Ended up with the left side of my face paralyzed for about 4 months. Couldn't taste anything...it all tasted like wax. Eye and nose ran constantly. Migrane level sinus headaches several times a week.
I would aske for a copy of their mold report and I would have one done myself.
Also...if mold is an issue you are correct that the hvac has most likely spread the spores to the entire place but how much each unit has gotten may vary greatly.
Thanks for that boost in blood pressure! [Tooth]
JM Ver. 2.0
09-25-2012, 12:45
Ya know, Ronin... I love reading your threads... Your threads always make me feel better about my life situations.
Thank you for that.
Ya know, Ronin... I love reading your threads... Your threads always make me feel better about my life situations.
Thank you for that.
No problem! [Beer] My life is like a roller coaster- it has ups, it has downs, and on occasion I get to yell "WEEEEEEE!"
JM Ver. 2.0
09-25-2012, 12:50
No problem! [Beer] My life is like a roller coaster- it has ups, it has downs, and on occasion I get to yell "WEEEEEEE!"
I don't mean my post in a shitty way either. I mean, I'm just saying... I have problems. But mine have nothing on your mold issue. Good luck with it. And I mean that. [Beer]
I don't mean my post in a shitty way either. I mean, I'm just saying... I have problems. But mine have nothing on your mold issue. Good luck with it. And I mean that. [Beer]
Thanks! With the boss getting back from a trip tonight, tomorrow should be fun! (Sarcasm)... It sucks, but it's kind of entertaining to listen to him lay into people- like last week when he called the claims adjuster and then that guys boss and gave them the business.
newracer
09-25-2012, 21:46
They should be able to isolate the HVAC system and only shut off the affected unit.
I am an environmental scientist and have done a lot of mold work. First thing to know is mod is ubiquitous in the environment. It is only an issue indoors if there is an amplification or different species when compared to outdoor. Some people are more sensitive than others and some can become "sensitized" where even low levels cause problems.
Cleanup is very similar to asbestos if the mod growth is large. Basically the area is isolated, negative pressure is established to keep all spores and other mold particles in the work area, all replaceable materials are removed and disposed of, non-replaceable materials are cleaned with a 5% bleach solution or a commercial fungicide and then painted with Kilz or another primer.
Once the cleanup is complete clearance sampling is typically done. Samples are are collected inside the work area and outside at the same time. The results are compared to see ii there is a difference in number or species.
Great-Kazoo
09-25-2012, 22:10
1st thing wrong
How long did it take for ins co to handle the water abatement and installation of fans for drying. Every day is one less day of work.
2nd
She should have renters ins to cover her losses
3rd
You should have renters or other ins to cover lose of use from fire, water damage etc.
4th
Screw her. Get your own co in to handle water damage and also a mold inspection. You are an ins co are you not??
What would you have done if a client called with this problem?
It's CO, Mold while not a major problem can cause lots of headaches down the road. Even money says she starts having issues breathing, sneezing, headaches on & on & on. Not to take away form those of us sensitive to such items.
My guess is she might be late on a payment or two and her pot-o-gold has arrived.
They should be able to isolate the HVAC system and only shut off the affected unit.
I am an environmental scientist and have done a lot of mold work. First thing to know is mod is ubiquitous in the environment. It is only an issue indoors if there is an amplification or different species when compared to outdoor. Some people are more sensitive than others and some can become "sensitized" where even low levels cause problems.
Cleanup is very similar to asbestos if the mod growth is large. Basically the area is isolated, negative pressure is established to keep all spores and other mold particles in the work area, all replaceable materials are removed and disposed of, non-replaceable materials are cleaned with a 5% bleach solution or a commercial fungicide and then painted with Kilz or another primer.
Once the cleanup is complete clearance sampling is typically done. Samples are are collected inside the work area and outside at the same time. The results are compared to see ii there is a difference in number or species.
Is the health risk really comparable to asbestos? If not why are such stringent containment measures warranted? Wont high levels of ozone kill mold? Tell us more about common species, inquiring minds want to know?
http://www.4o3.us/ozone_generators.html
newracer
09-25-2012, 22:23
The health risk is not comparable to asbestos but they way remediation occurs is. The reason they do it that way is when the materials with mold growth are disturbed there can be a huge release of spores and mold pieces. The negative pressure system will contain everything to the work area where the workers should be wearing respirators.
I am not sure if ozone will kill mold.
This page has a lot of good info on mold.
http://www.cdc.gov/mold/stachy.htm
1st thing wrong
How long did it take for ins co to handle the water abatement and installation of fans for drying. Every day is one less day of work.
SERVPRO was here as of Monday after the incident (or it could have been Sunday evening). They jumped on it quickly...
2nd
She should have renters ins to cover her losses
She does, but it's only the personal property- our coverage for the whole building is covering the lump of the loss.
3rd
You should have renters or other ins to cover lose of use from fire, water damage etc.
We do... We have the entire building covered via the HOA, then each unit has their own renter's/tenant ins.
4th
Screw her. Get your own co in to handle water damage and also a mold inspection. You are an ins co are you not??
What would you have done if a client called with this problem?
On that now, it's just a huge headache because our ins adjuster is incompetent and has only been here twice now...
It's CO, Mold while not a major problem can cause lots of headaches down the road. Even money says she starts having issues breathing, sneezing, headaches on & on & on. Not to take away form those of us sensitive to such items.
My guess is she might be late on a payment or two and her pot-o-gold has arrived.
Today is the day- we've had a buzz of activity and hopefully they'll figure out the mold situation. The crappy part is, the boss is out of the office this morning and I'm here by myself for most of the morning. Already had to manage 2 phone calls and one of those times were when the inspectors came in- sorry guys, but the customers take priority right now.
StagLefty
09-26-2012, 10:14
Today is the day- we've had a buzz of activity and hopefully they'll figure out the mold situation. The crappy part is, the boss is out of the office this morning and I'm here by myself for most of the morning. Already had to manage 2 phone calls and one of those times were when the inspectors came in- sorry guys, but the customers take priority right now.
Jim Jim paging Jim [ROFL1]
Great-Kazoo
09-26-2012, 14:03
Jim Jim paging Jim [ROFL1]
Sorry guys been dealing with people for 2-3 hrs whose grasp of english let alone any language is below what my mixed breed dog understands.
It's amazing how many places will try and slip an "extra charge" on a bill. Until you call them on it.
Ronin gets a pass. besides you highlighted what he said.
Ronins next post will read
Can you believe it the ins company blew us off. Said they were busy with valid claims[ROFL2]
BESIDES I JUST WENT OFF ON Dwalker or what ever the %^& his name is regarding his issue with the TP forums.
Ronin gets a pass. besides you highlighted what he said.
Ronins next post will read
Can you believe it the ins company blew us off. Said they were busy with valid claims[ROFL2]
BESIDES I JUST WENT OFF ON Dwalker or what ever the %^& his name is regarding his issue with the TP forums.
No they didn't blow us off- they neglected us altogether. [Tooth] But they're working on it now, and I guess the guys have been working all day on seeing the extent of everything and then we'll finally have something to take to the ins co and get the ball rolling.
By the way Jim, having been on the receiving end of your wrath and "I've had enough", well said in the TP rant thread... [Beer]
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