Oath Keepers

[Teufelhund]

I've heard brief mention of this organization before, but have never really looked into it until recently. I like their message so I registered on their forums just to take a look around. They only give you access to the local forum for your State unless you pay to join; then you get access to the "national forum." The Colorado forum doesn't seem to be very active.

They want $40 for an annual membership, and they have links all over the place to make donations. There is plenty on the site stating what they will not do, but I can't seem to find any info on what they actually do.

Are they lobbyists like the NRA? I just can't see giving them money without knowing what it is going to support. Can anyone fill me in? Anyone here a member?


Silly dramatic video from the site declaring orders the Oath Keepers will not obey. Skip to 1:55 to get to the meat of it:

Zztaj2AFiy8

(music was awesome btw. From the Last of the Mohicans movie. I still have a VHS somewhere of when my HS marching band played this at UIL.)


The organization's founder giving a pretty good speech:

f2MJbw0o-B0


Sorry if this has been discussed here before. I ran a search and just found a few casual mentions of it; I didn't want to resurrect any of those threads to ask about the organization specifically.

[zteknik]

Dunno much about them.
I keep my oath and I dont ask for money.
I allways am leery when some organizations require money for membership.
I signed on the dotted line and I didn't have to shell out any money...

[stevelkinevil]

From what I know about their mission, it is very admirable, of course .gov is not a fan which in some way's makes me more interested. But I am leery as well of the idea of forking over money for access to a forum or orginization, at the same time promotion is not free. As zteknik has said, I took an oath to the constitution and I stand by it as I believe many still do.

[BushMasterBoy]

http://ocoathkeepers.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/ok-ndaa-billboard-normandy2.png?w=620&h=277

http://www.infowars.com/oath-keepers-to-place-billboard-outside-ft-leavenworth-protesting-article-demonizing-tea-party-as-future-enemy-of-u-s-military/

[Troublco]

From what I've seen, the only people/organizations that really don't like them are those that have a reason to; such as those who feel the Constitution and Bill of Rights are "outdated" and "In need of change". The Police Chief in Quartzite, Arizona reported them (and the Tea Party) to the FBI as terrorist organizations...some time after 9 or10 of his officers reported him for a laundry list of violations; apparently the Oath Keepers lauded those officers for keeping to their oaths.

I googled "Quartzite Arizona Chief of Police violations" and wow...

[HoneyBadger]

I think most of the forum members here would "keep the oath" whether they are official "oath keepers" or not.

[Teufelhund]

I think you all make a good point about maintaining our Oath regardless of affiliation with any particular organization.

So is there value in organizing around this ideal? I'd like to think it would be valuable in a situation like what happened in New Orleans, where citizens were unlawfully detained in the Superdome, but there is no value if no action is taken. Talk is cheap.

[two shoes]

I think you all make a good point about maintaining our Oath regardless of affiliation with any particular organization.

So is there value in organizing around this ideal? I'd like to think it would be valuable in a situation like what happened in New Orleans, where citizens were unlawfully detained in the Superdome, but there is no value if no action is taken. Talk is cheap.

When thinking about this, I was reminded of this bit, and why they are important:

B1Qx0cTze0M

[Gunoholic]

Trying to bump this for more info. Seems like a good cause.. $40 for an anual membership and they do have a good message. Whats forty bucks when the org is advertizing and promoting our rights?

I was also wanting to see if anyone with more experience with them would elaborate a bit. No ones getting rich off our memberships right?

[Teufelhund]

I asked the same questions when I met with some Colorado OathKeepers earlier this month. The membership dues help keep the community running, and fund marketing campaigns to get the message out to (primarily) active duty LE and military members to keep their Oath and not obey unlawful orders; this is something that is becoming more important every day IMHO. Stewart Rhodes (founder) speaks at a lot of events nationwide spreading this message, and I assume a portion of the membership dues help fund this travel as well. As far as I can tell, no one is getting rich off the organization. Be forewarned, the staff is all volunteer, so it is not super efficient at sending out membership packages and gear.

[HoneyBadger]

I asked the same questions when I met with some Colorado OathKeepers earlier this month. The membership dues help keep the community running, and fund marketing campaigns to get the message out to (primarily) active duty LE and military members to keep their Oath and not obey unlawful orders; this is something that is becoming more important every day IMHO. Stewart Rhodes (founder) speaks at a lot of events nationwide spreading this message, and I assume a portion of the membership dues help fund this travel as well. As far as I can tell, no one is getting rich off the organization. Be forewarned, the staff is all volunteer, so it is not super efficient at sending out membership packages and gear.

Thanks for the update. I consider myself an "unofficial member" as I'm sure most of the AD and Veterans here do. I'm interested in officially joining, but I need some convincing.

[Teufelhund]

Thanks for the update. I consider myself an "unofficial member" as I'm sure most of the AD and Veterans here do. I'm interested in officially joining, but I need some convincing.

The meetup this month was a good time. It was just a few of us that made it, but we sat and talked about guns and prepping for hours. We're looking at having another meetup the first week of February. Feel free to attend and ask questions and go from there. I don't care if people pay membership dues to OK or not, but it is damn nice to get together with like-minded folks, especially now.

[Teufelhund]

Moving the February Oath Keepers meetup to this weekend, likely Saturday. Have not determined a location or time yet.

PM me if you're interested in meeting some fellow Oath Keepers and I'll send you the details when we nail them down. You do not need to be an official, dues-paying member, but you do need to be an oath keeper (refer to the site if you need a definition).

[bryjcom]

I think this is a good org. If I were military or LEO I would join in a heartbeat. Think of me as a member in spirit.

The fact is there are some cops that need to remember what they took an oath to and seeing this organization rise up will help a lot of LEO realize that they may be alone when these orders come down in the future.

[rockhound]

am i the only one that can see that billboards is a photoshop ????

[Ashton]

LOL how to profit in america: Start non profit. Ask for donations. Get army to support non profit. Profit. The fact that you're posting this on a forum that asks for no dues... Well do you want me to decide for you?

[Ashton]

I asked the same questions when I met with some Colorado OathKeepers earlier this month. The membership dues help keep the community running, and fund marketing campaigns to get the message out to (primarily) active duty LE and military members to keep their Oath and not obey unlawful orders; this is something that is becoming more important every day IMHO. Stewart Rhodes (founder) speaks at a lot of events nationwide spreading this message, and I assume a portion of the membership dues help fund this travel as well. As far as I can tell, no one is getting rich off the organization. Be forewarned, the staff is all volunteer, so it is not super efficient at sending out membership packages and gear.

Are you just actually trying to recruit? Giving answers to frequently asked questions... Or are you just looking for someone to join with you?

[bryjcom]

LOL how to profit in america: Start non profit. Ask for donations. Get army to support non profit. Profit. The fact that you're posting this on a forum that asks for no dues... Well do you want me to decide for you?

What makes you say that they are profiting from this? Is the CEO taking a salary and how much? You've said a lot but I don't see any numbers.. Not saying your wrong but you definitely came out swinging...

[Ashton]

What makes you say that they are profiting from this? Is the CEO taking a salary and how much? You've said a lot but I don't see any numbers.. Not saying your wrong but you definitely came out swinging...

Wasn't trying to say anything just common sense which seems to say a lot... Normal CEO salaries are between 100-150 except no human being would take that little if they could take a lot more? I sure wouldn't. I wont even try to google numbers... Non profits pay a lot to keep numbers out of the picture.

[bryjcom]

Wasn't trying to say anything just common sense which seems to say a lot... Normal CEO salaries are between 100-150 except no human being would take that little if they could take a lot more? I sure wouldn't. I wont even try to google numbers... Non profits pay a lot to keep numbers out of the picture.

You'd be pleasantly surprised. I know the Salvation Army CEO makes around $15K a year and there are others that make nothing

[Ashton]

You'd be pleasantly surprised. I know the Salvation Army CEO makes around $15K a year and there are others that make nothing

You're drinking the punch. Do you live in the ghetto where people shoot each other> Windsor does not qualify.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/charities.asp

[Ashton]

You'd be pleasantly surprised. I know the Salvation Army CEO makes around $15K a year and there are others that make nothing

So really. You don't know the salvation army CEO. You know his published salary is 15 a year and that other "volunteers" don't make anything for volunteering... When did people start getting paid for volunteering? I mean it's volunterring. Which I wont even google for a dictionary for your benefit.

[tmleadr03]

Oh lord do I wish I had thought of this tripe myself.

Lets think about this. The oath you take when you enlist: I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.


Hmmm. Lets see here. I have already taken an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States. Why do I need to pay someone else to take an oath to uphold the oath. If I was going to keep the first oath, why do I need the second one to guarentee I will hold the first. If I was going to break the first, what is to say paying 20 bucks to take the second oath is going to keep me from breaking that one as well?

Then there is the implication that those who DONT take the second oath are more likely to break the oath. Well, fuck you asshole. Why is your oath better then mine just because you paid 20 bucks for it?

Personally I do not trust anyone who swears an oath to disobey their already sworn oath. This entire organization is a waste of time and money. Good lord, PT Barnum is right again.


Now lets dissect the orders they are refusing to obey.
1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.Would this be a lawful order? Depends, would being ordered to disarm Adam Lanza be a lawful order? Yup. Would door to door confiscation be a lawful order? No? Well, hell what is the point of the oathkeepers oath then? Isn't that already covered under my first oath?
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people Lets go back to lawful orders on this one.
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal. How about Hassan? Is he an American Citizen? Would he be considered to be being detained for a military tribunal? Is that ok? Would detaining him be against your second oath?
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state. Because we know that there is never any reason or need for martial law/state of emergency during say, a hurricane. During Katrina there was some serious issues I admit. But the second oath would not have saved us from those. During Sandy I distinctly recall reading about looting and rioting. Some martial law was perfectly acceptable for that.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty. Secession. Awesome topic and deserving its own thread. Odds of that happening? Between slim and none. Odds of the POTUS sending troops in this day and age to settle a secession issue? Also between slim and none. Economic sanctions would be way more effective.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps. Giant concentration camps. I think I read a book about this once. It was in the fiction section and it also involved zombies and tactical nuke deployed in Houston.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext. ​See previous response.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control." WOOOOLVEREENS!!! I fucking loved that movie that happened to not be a documentary.
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies. Ok, come on. This one is already covered under the first oath and if that oath wont keep neither will a second one.
10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances. And again we go back to the first oath, that if it wont hold a second one wont do squat.


The entire notion that I need a second oath to guarantee that I will keep my first one is insulting to me. And it should be to most people who have taken the oath.


Ya'll need to read up on the Posse Comitatus Act.

[Teufelhund]

Are you just actually trying to recruit? Giving answers to frequently asked questions... Or are you just looking for someone to join with you?

I was answering questions that a few people have asked because I had the same ones back in September when I started this thread. As I said previously, I really do not care if someone joins OK or not. I'm not recruiting for anyone.

Just putting the invite out there for like-minded guys/gals to get together and have a beer and bullshit about guns.

[Teufelhund]

tmleadr03, I understand the cynicism and you may indeed be right (though I'm not sure what "second oath" you're talking about). If everyone who took the oath when they joined the service took it to heart like you and I did, there would be no need to remind anyone of it. That is simply not the case.

Again, I don't care if anyone joins OK, ever. Maintain your oath and that's good enough for me.

This is why I sent Oath Keepers a few bucks; because I want more of this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY148rPm0DQ

So we'll have less of this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCIQ33m8pE0&list=UU0RJJ_Wm7jyOU9eY10LgcwA& index=40

[HoneyBadger]

Oh lord do I wish I had thought of this tripe myself.

Lets think about this. The oath you take when you enlist: I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.


Hmmm. Lets see here. I have already taken an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States. Why do I need to pay someone else to take an oath to uphold the oath. If I was going to keep the first oath, why do I need the second one to guarentee I will hold the first. If I was going to break the first, what is to say paying 20 bucks to take the second oath is going to keep me from breaking that one as well?

Then there is the implication that those who DONT take the second oath are more likely to break the oath. Well, fuck you asshole. Why is your oath better then mine just because you paid 20 bucks for it?

Personally I do not trust anyone who swears an oath to disobey their already sworn oath. This entire organization is a waste of time and money. Good lord, PT Barnum is right again.


Now lets dissect the orders they are refusing to obey.
1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.Would this be a lawful order? Depends, would being ordered to disarm Adam Lanza be a lawful order? Yup. Would door to door confiscation be a lawful order? No? Well, hell what is the point of the oathkeepers oath then? Isn't that already covered under my first oath?
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people Lets go back to lawful orders on this one.
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal. How about Hassan? Is he an American Citizen? Would he be considered to be being detained for a military tribunal? Is that ok? Would detaining him be against your second oath?
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state. Because we know that there is never any reason or need for martial law/state of emergency during say, a hurricane. During Katrina there was some serious issues I admit. But the second oath would not have saved us from those. During Sandy I distinctly recall reading about looting and rioting. Some martial law was perfectly acceptable for that.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty. Secession. Awesome topic and deserving its own thread. Odds of that happening? Between slim and none. Odds of the POTUS sending troops in this day and age to settle a secession issue? Also between slim and none. Economic sanctions would be way more effective.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps. Giant concentration camps. I think I read a book about this once. It was in the fiction section and it also involved zombies and tactical nuke deployed in Houston.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext. ​See previous response.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control." WOOOOLVEREENS!!! I fucking loved that movie that happened to not be a documentary.
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies. Ok, come on. This one is already covered under the first oath and if that oath wont keep neither will a second one.
10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances. And again we go back to the first oath, that if it wont hold a second one wont do squat.


The entire notion that I need a second oath to guarantee that I will keep my first one is insulting to me. And it should be to most people who have taken the oath.


Ya'll need to read up on the Posse Comitatus Act.


You and Ashton are totally missing the point on this... You should not in any way be insulted or offended by this. The organization exists as a way to encourage those who took an oath to uphold it in all circumstances. Oathkeepers gives people who fully intend on keeping the oath a way to meet, organize, and spread the word. I too took an oath and I take it as seriously as you do, but I know others who have taken the oath who wouldn't second guess an order to fire upon US citizens.

The OathKeepers organization is not there to take your money or solicit you with a steady stream of mail (like the NRA-ILA). It is not about "taking a second oath". The organization exists to aid in organization and awareness, and to strengthen those who may not have the guts to stand up all by themselves.

I'm not going to give them any money, but I sure as hell intend to keep my oath until the day I die.