Another Border Agent killed

[tmleadr03]

From guns supplied to them by the Obama Administration.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/02/2-us-border-agents-shot-1-killed-near-major-drug-cooridor-in-arizona/

[Mr_RoP]

Obama will be apologizing to Mexico within the hour for another bump in the road!

[tmleadr03]

Border, not boarder.

[BigBear]

Border, not boarder.

Hoarder, not whorer? .... HAHAHA. [Beer]

[Ronin13]

Another reason to make our southern border a DMZ... [Mad]

[Ridge]

Nothing in that article says or even suggests it was with F&F guns.

[Teufelhund]

Another reason to make our southern border a DMZ... [Mad]

Are you 100% Native American?

I can't comprehend this attitude of, "now that I'm here, don't let anyone else in." We need serious immigration reform in this country, but sealing the borders is not it. There should be multiple, relatively simple paths to citizenship for non-violent criminals; just like our ancestors had when they came here (sans the vetting process).

[Ridge]

Are you 100% Native American?

I can't comprehend this attitude of, "now that I'm here, don't let anyone else in." We need serious immigration reform in this country, but sealing the borders is not it. There should be multiple, relatively simple paths to citizenship for non-violent criminals; just like our ancestors had when they came here (sans the vetting process).

Agreed. And the quota system needs to go away as well.

[Goodburbon]

Are you 100% Native American?

I can't comprehend this attitude of, "now that I'm here, don't let anyone else in." We need serious immigration reform in this country, but sealing the borders is not it. There should be multiple, relatively simple paths to citizenship for non-violent criminals; just like our ancestors had when they came here (sans the vetting process).

I think when most people say "seal the border" they're speaking of the physical border in between actual legal crossing areas.

I haven't met anyone who says they want to seal off the entire border. Of course, I don't associate with those kinds of people either.

[sniper7]

It is time to shoot on sight. anyone crossing the border will be shot until dead. there is no other way.

once things are under control and the bodies are piled up, the good people trying to get across can come through using the proper channels. The bad guys will probably find other ways across but if we come down with an iron fist on them and the mexican government we will eventually win.

[Goodburbon]

It is time to shoot on sight. anyone crossing the border will be shot until dead. there is no other way.

once things are under control and the bodies are piled up, the good people trying to get across can come through using the proper channels. The bad guys will probably find other ways across but if we come down with an iron fist on them and the mexican government we will eventually win.

But we will not do that. it's too "insensitive" and racist to shoot people invading your country.

[Ridge]

It is time to shoot on sight. anyone crossing the border will be shot until dead. there is no other way.

once things are under control and the bodies are piled up, the good people trying to get across can come through using the proper channels. The bad guys will probably find other ways across but if we come down with an iron fist on them and the mexican government we will eventually win.

And who will do all this casual killing?

[Teufelhund]

And who will do all this casual killing?

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/564054_10151070656478230_1642142669_n.jpg

[Teufelhund]

I think when most people say "seal the border" they're speaking of the physical border in between actual legal crossing areas.

I haven't met anyone who says they want to seal off the entire border. Of course, I don't associate with those kinds of people either.

I see. So just keep the Mexicans out.

[Rucker61]

It is time to shoot on sight. anyone crossing the border will be shot until dead. there is no other way.

once things are under control and the bodies are piled up, the good people trying to get across can come through using the proper channels. The bad guys will probably find other ways across but if we come down with an iron fist on them and the mexican government we will eventually win.

Just remember, when shooting women and children, you don't have to lead them so far.

[Goodburbon]

I see. So just keep the Mexicans out.

Well THAT's putting words in my mouth.

NO, not "just keep the mexicans out".

Just prevent crossings other than at checkpoints, require passports so you know who is coming and going and how long they're staying, just the same as any other port of entry. Like international airports for instance.

[sniper7]

And who will do all this casual killing?

BP, farmers who are allowed to protect their personal property, volunteers....you know ARFCOM is full of them. National guard, the .mil, police.

At this point, I think our country is in an economic war as well as a drug war.

sorry, but this is NOT the same as when the irish, english, chinese etc. all came over

the estimate of illegal immigrants in the US is between 10-20 million. 56% are from mexico and 22% from other latin american countires which use the mexican border as their point of entry.

8-10% of the babies born in the US every year are to at least 1 illegal immigrant parent.


we are being over run. bottom line.

[Canuckistani]

There should be multiple, relatively simple paths to citizenship for non-violent criminals; just like our ancestors had when they came here (sans the vetting process).

Uhhh, newsflash, but there are "multiple, relatively simple paths to citizenship for non-violent criminals". I know, because I'm an immigrant. They're called visas, and there's lots of them in place already. (http://travel.state.gov/visa/)

I came here 100% legally - followed all the steps to process, did the interviews, paid my dues, and followed the damned rules to gain the privilege to live here, unlike these river-swimming criminals that bring their entire families over to live off the government tit. Guess who pays for them? The fine, law-abiding citizens & residents of this country.

As a legal immigrant to this fantastic country, nothing pisses me off more than those who choose to circumvent the laws which are already in place for immigration control. I did it legally, why the hell can't they?

Am I for "sealing the borders"? Abso-f*cking-lutely.

[Teufelhund]

Well THAT's putting words in my mouth.

NO, not "just keep the mexicans out".

Just prevent crossings other than at checkpoints, require passports so you know who is coming and going and how long they're staying, just the same as any other port of entry. Like international airports for instance.

I'm fine with that. I don't think that's what most folks mean when they say, "seal the border" though. Usually it's more along the lines of, "put up a big wall and shoot on sight."

[Ronin13]

Are you 100% Native American?

I can't comprehend this attitude of, "now that I'm here, don't let anyone else in." We need serious immigration reform in this country, but sealing the borders is not it. There should be multiple, relatively simple paths to citizenship for non-violent criminals; just like our ancestors had when they came here (sans the vetting process).


I see. So just keep the Mexicans out.

Are you trolling or stirring? I'm not saying to not permit immigration into America- I'm saying reduce the amount of illegal immigration, close the border except where already established entry is permitted, and we might be able to stem the tide of drugs, murder, guns, money, etc. from coming back and forth.

[Teufelhund]

Uhhh, newsflash, but there are "multiple, relatively simple paths to citizenship for non-violent criminals". I know, because I'm an immigrant. They're called visas, and there's lots of them in place already. (http://travel.state.gov/visa/)

I came here 100% legally - followed all the steps to process, did the interviews, paid my dues, and followed the damned rules to gain the privilege to live here, unlike these river-swimming criminals that bring their entire families over to live off the government tit. Guess who pays for them? The fine, law-abiding citizens & residents of this country.

As a legal immigrant to this fantastic country, nothing pisses me off more than those who choose to circumvent the laws which are already in place for immigration control. I did it legally, why the hell can't they?

Am I for "sealing the borders"? Abso-f*cking-lutely.

Easy, fella. I don't support illegal immigration either. It is admirable that you went through the proper channels to earn your citizenship. My mother in law did the same thing, immigrating here from Austria. How long did it take you, what was the cost, and how difficult was it?

[sniper7]

Uhhh, newsflash, but there are "multiple, relatively simple paths to citizenship for non-violent criminals". I know, because I'm an immigrant. They're called visas, and there's lots of them in place already. (http://travel.state.gov/visa/)

I came here 100% legally - followed all the steps to process, did the interviews, paid my dues, and followed the damned rules to gain the privilege to live here, unlike these river-swimming criminals that bring their entire families over to live off the government tit. Guess who pays for them? The fine, law-abiding citizens & residents of this country.

As a legal immigrant to this fantastic country, nothing pisses me off more than those who choose to circumvent the laws which are already in place for immigration control. I did it legally, why the hell can't they?

Am I for "sealing the borders"? Abso-f*cking-lutely.

thank you for doing the right thing. Sometimes it isn't the EASY way. I have the utmost respect for you.

[Teufelhund]

Are you trolling or stirring? I'm not saying to not permit immigration into America- I'm saying reduce the amount of illegal immigration, close the border except where already established entry is permitted, and we might be able to stem the tide of drugs, murder, guns, money, etc. from coming back and forth.

You know damn well I just like stirring up shit. Most people here are very like-minded and these threads either don't go anywhere when everyone agrees with each other, or they eventually degrade into some nonsensical kill-'em-all-bring-out-the-pitchforks-and-torches frenzy. Just trying to keep the "discussion" in "General Discussion."

[Canuckistani]

Easy, fella. I don't support illegal immigration either. It is admirable that you went through the proper channels to earn your citizenship. My mother in law did the same thing, immigrating here from Austria. How long did it take you, what was the cost, and how difficult was it?

First off, just to clarify, I am not a U.S. citizen. I'm not implying that being a citizen is bad (quite the opposite), I just don't want anyone to have any sort of false impressions about me or my status. Just as someone who wears camo pants isn't a soldier, just because I live here doesn't make me a citizen. My immigrant status is "Permanent Resident Alien". I live & work in the United States under completely legal circumstances.

I immigrated pre-9/11, and it's my understanding that my process was significantly easier than those who wish to go through things nowadays. Security has been increased in huge amounts since then, making the immigration process more involved & even more thorough. I completely support these additional levels of security, as I believe it's in America's best interest to not just let anyone & everyone into the country.

If memory serves me correctly, it took me around 18 months to gain Permanent Resident status. Cost was somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000 with lawyers fees & filing costs altogether. As far as difficulty is concerned, it was actually fairly simple process for me, but you have to be patient. Some people choose to try & go through the paperwork themselves, but I was advised against that as the slightest error on your forms anywhere in the process can send you back to square one. I chose to hire an immigration attorney to prepare all my paperwork. For me, this greatly simplified things, but still was no guarantee that I would be approved.

My case was about as straightforward as they come though - young guy, married to an American citizen, with zero criminal background or nefarious ties. The process is fairly simple, but it's incredibly thorough. Both my wife & I were personally interviewed (interrogated might be a better term) about our motives for my immigration. We had to provide all sorts of documentation (photographs, account statements, etc) showing that we were living together and being a married couple. If you're truly trying to be 100% legal, the days of "well just marry an American" are over. The INS folks are hip to that stuff, just as any good detective would be.

Though my status is Permanent Resident, I actually had to renew my Green Card last year. In order to do so, I had to pay another $300 and have "biometric screening" performed. Every 10 years I'll have to go through that process to make sure I don't come up on any 'lists'.

Immigration was a very involved & eye-opening experience for me, and it was 100% worth it in order to live in such a great country. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I do believe though, that it needs to remain a thorough and arduous process. If it's too easy, the floodgates will open with hordes of people crossing into America, detracting from the caliber of people you have living here.

By "sealing the borders", I was referring to completely & totally eliminating any means of crossing onto American soil, except at those points which the government & people of the United States choose to let people enter. That goes for all borders, not just the southern one. I can just about guarantee you that if a terrorist wanted to come into the United States, the northern border with Canada is a much easier one to cross than the southern one with Mexico. They both should be sealed, in my opinion. You have great things here in America, I think it behooves you to protect them by any & all means necessary.

If anyone has any questions, I'd be more than happy to answer them in order to maybe give a better idea of what it's like to be an immigrant living in the U.S. [Beer]

[Ridge]

BP, farmers who are allowed to protect their personal property, volunteers....you know ARFCOM is full of them. National guard, the .mil, police.

At this point, I think our country is in an economic war as well as a drug war.

sorry, but this is NOT the same as when the irish, english, chinese etc. all came over

the estimate of illegal immigrants in the US is between 10-20 million. 56% are from mexico and 22% from other latin american countires which use the mexican border as their point of entry.

8-10% of the babies born in the US every year are to at least 1 illegal immigrant parent.


we are being over run. bottom line.

ARFCOM is full of 250lb operators that couldn't complete an IPSC course without stopping for a breather. Unless they can do the shooting from a remote terminal in their bathroom, they won't be getting it done.

And it is against the Constitution for the military to be armed and mobilized within our borders. And the police don't have the funding to respond to calls in the cities. How the hell are they going to watch thousands of square miles of featureless desert?

[Teufelhund]

. . . [Beer]

Thank you for the information in your thorough reply. Your first-hand account made more and better points about the difficulty and cost of legal immigration than I ever could have. I think most would agree the financial burden and prerequisites for legal admission contained in our current system are well beyond the means of most.

Thank you again for coming here and staying legally; I'm glad the system worked for you. We are lucky to have you, but I still believe your path should have been easier and less costly. [Beer]

[Canuckistani]

We are lucky to have you, but I still believe your path should have been easier and less costly. [Beer]

Fair enough - trust me, I like having more money in my pocket as much as the next guy.

Let me ask you this though, if $5,000 is too much to pay to live for the rest of your life in the greatest country on earth, what would be a fair price?

[Teufelhund]

Fair enough - trust me, I like having more money in my pocket as much as the next guy.

Let me ask you this though, if $5,000 is too much to pay to live for the rest of your life in the greatest country on earth, what would be a fair price?

Good question. Knowing what I have, I would gladly pay that amount and more. I don't think it's always a question of what someone is willing to do as it is what they are capable of doing. If someone is penniless coming here, should they be denied the opportunities you and I have?

[Ronin13]

ARFCOM is full of 250lb operators that couldn't complete an IPSC course without stopping for a breather. Unless they can do the shooting from a remote terminal in their bathroom, they won't be getting it done.

And it is against the Constitution for the military to be armed and mobilized within our borders. And the police don't have the funding to respond to calls in the cities. How the hell are they going to watch thousands of square miles of featureless desert?

Nothing in the Constitution, you're thinking of the Posse Comitatus Act:

Its intent was to limit the powers of local governments and law enforcement agencies in using federal military personnel to enforce the laws of the land. Contrary to popular belief, the Act does not prohibit members of the Army from exercising state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order"; it simply requires that any authority to do so must exist with the United States Constitution or Act of Congress. In this way, most use of the Army and the Air Force at the direction of the President does not offend the statute, even though it may be problematic for political reasons.

The statute only addresses the US Army and, since 1956, the US Air Force. It does not refer to, and thus does not restrict or apply to, the National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor (in its federal capacity, the National Guard forms part of the Army or Air Force of the United States). The Navy and Marine Corps are prohibited by a Department of Defense directive (self-regulation), but not by the Act itself. Although it is a military force,the U.S. Coast Guard, which now operates under the Department of Homeland Security, is also not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act, primarily because the Coast Guard has both a maritime law enforcement mission and a federal regulatory agency mission.

[Canuckistani]

Well, perhaps there is some misconception happening here. The $5,000 I paid was not a lump sum payment. My lawyer's fees at the time (which have no doubt gone up a lot) were only like $1,000. That got the ball rolling. The remaining $4,000 came in smaller increments, that had to be paid as certain documents & applications were filed.

There was only a small window where I was legally not permitted to work while I was here. To that end, I don't think it's too much to have to come up with $1,000 to get things started, and then get a productive job, save up as you go along, and go through the process. Is it tough? Absolutely. Is it impossible? No way.

I don't think the immigration process is the problem here. Border security & the flood of illegal immigrants who create a burden on the American system is.

[dwalker460]

My wife is from China. She came here as part of a DU sponsored program for Chinese students which was extremely competitive and she worked very hard to come here just for an education. She is now a US Citizen, and we did it all 100% legally. I have zero sympathy for wetbacks or other illegals. Mexico is a problem because they literally just walk or drive across the border, and the .gov could care less.

[Teufelhund]

I don't think the immigration process is the problem here. Border security & the flood of illegal immigrants who create a burden on the American system is.

I contend that it is both. One exacerbates the other. The former is easy to fix; the latter has proven to be damn near impossible to prevent.

[Rucker61]

Good question. Knowing what I have, I would gladly pay that amount and more. I don't think it's always a question of what someone is willing to do as it is what they are capable of doing. If someone is penniless coming here, should they be denied the opportunities you and I have?

I don't think many of us can conceive of the life conditions that would drive someone to undertake the chances to cross the border that these poor people do. I've seen folks living in houses made of sticks in villages in Honduras with poor sanitation and unsafe water. Hell yeah I'd sneak across the border to take a chance on my kids living to grow up, and to have something better than that kind of existence.

[sniper7]

ARFCOM is full of 250lb operators that couldn't complete an IPSC course without stopping for a breather. Unless they can do the shooting from a remote terminal in their bathroom, they won't be getting it done.

And it is against the Constitution for the military to be armed and mobilized within our borders. And the police don't have the funding to respond to calls in the cities. How the hell are they going to watch thousands of square miles of featureless desert?


Still farmers who have their land, you know there a ton of people out there who would be willing to help "defend our borders" by sitting in an elevated stand and waiting for the "invaders" to cross the magic line. even the 250 lb high speed low drag operators.

with the money saved from entitlement and health care programs the police could easily get more funding while the deficit would be cut as well. New technology with sensors could be paid for to increase the amount of area covered. more border patrol agents could be hired. More American jobs created.

More openings for people who want to come over legally and job placements available to them.

Let me be very clear, I am all for people coming into our country to live the American Dream. I've met lots of them, I work with them, some of them I consider my friends. All I ask is that it is done through the process our elected officials and our government have established. Just as I am asked to pay my taxes, show my ID for pretty much everything, pay into the benefit programs that were designed to truly help people in a time of need...NOT as a way of life.

[sniper7]

Good question. Knowing what I have, I would gladly pay that amount and more. I don't think it's always a question of what someone is willing to do as it is what they are capable of doing. If someone is penniless coming here, should they be denied the opportunities you and I have?

There HAS to be a cost associated. We can't just let people come over willy-nilly for nothing. People have jobs who have to get paid to do the paperwork, do the tests, check backgrounds etc etc. As I said in my previous post, I am all for people coming over the right way, but I also don't believe my tax dollars need to be used to pay for hundreds of thousands if not millions of applications to be gone through.
I have to pay to use the legal system, even for small claims. They want to come over for citizenship, it is going to cost them.

[RMAC757]

My wife is from China. She came here as part of a DU sponsored program for Chinese students which was extremely competitive and she worked very hard to come here just for an education. She is now a US Citizen, and we did it all 100% legally. I have zero sympathy for wetbacks or other illegals. Mexico is a problem because they literally just walk or drive across the border, and the .gov could care less.

Wetbacks?? Really?

[dwalker460]

Oh my bad.. I forgot the PC term is "undocumented person".

[Canuckistani]

Oh my bad.. I forgot the PC term is "undocumented person".

Actually, I prefer 'snowback', thank you very much. [Tooth]

[Jer]

Uhhh, newsflash, but there are "multiple, relatively simple paths to citizenship for non-violent criminals". I know, because I'm an immigrant. They're called visas, and there's lots of them in place already. (http://travel.state.gov/visa/)

I came here 100% legally - followed all the steps to process, did the interviews, paid my dues, and followed the damned rules to gain the privilege to live here, unlike these river-swimming criminals that bring their entire families over to live off the government tit. Guess who pays for them? The fine, law-abiding citizens & residents of this country.

As a legal immigrant to this fantastic country, nothing pisses me off more than those who choose to circumvent the laws which are already in place for immigration control. I did it legally, why the hell can't they?

Am I for "sealing the borders"? Abso-f*cking-lutely.

/thread

[Ronin13]

Oh my bad.. I forgot the PC term is "undocumented person".

Careful- I watched a clip on Bill O'Reilly the other day that had some societal pawn scum who needed to be retroactively aborted stating that her and her cause want to eliminate the term "Illegal Alien" because it's "racist." Ol' Bill just said- No racism, it's the truth, that's what they are!