View Full Version : Great article about 3rd party voting.
DD977GM2
10-03-2012, 12:13
3rd party voters need to read article (http://www.rightsidenews.com/2012092917121/editorial/us-opinion-and-editorial/when-did-communism-become-an-american-dream.html) Please read this article before election day or mailing in your ballot.
Those that feel the need to vote for a candidate to make their conscience feel better
or vote their beliefs (believe me I feel a 3rd party Nominee is better for the States then either retard for R or D)
but this article puts a lot of things in perspective.
I still stand by my idea that this election is to critical to play the game of teaching the
Republicans a lesson and voting 3rd party. Johnson or anyone one on a 3rd party ticket
stand NO CHANCE whatsoever of gaining the POTUS office. Thus in our state
as a battleground and Romney is behind, your allowing your vote to be taken away from
Romney and allowing oblowme to be relected.
For instance, Ohio as of yesterday was showing around 10-12% of the vote to Johnson on a 3rd ticket.
Thats fantastic, but Romeny is behind in the poles there by around 5-7%.
If those folks,say 7.5-9% of them, instead of wasting their vote on someone who will
not gain POTUS and vote for Romney,
then we could concevably be done with this douche in office right now and
have a shot at saving this country.
I understand your ideaology and your belief structure and that Romeny is rhino
blah blah blah. But to allow your vote to go to someone who stands no chance
in gaining office and thinking your going to teach the 2 party's who have a shot at making POTUS
a lesson, is just something I do not understand when this is such a critical election.
Think of it this way, would you rather sleep with a gal and the public
knows about that that the public doesnt consider attractive, frankly you dont
either, or sleep with a guy in private and only you know about? Id rather
have the public know about me going hogging up the ugly tree.
Sharpienads
10-03-2012, 12:30
Hm... not too sure about the last couple of lines, but I agree. Unfortunately, I don't think anybody's mind here is going to be changed.
DD977GM2
10-03-2012, 12:31
Hm... not too sure about the last couple of lines, but I agree. Unfortunately, I don't think anybody's mind here is going to be changed.
Thats the sad part when our state is a battleground and Romney is behind.[Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang]
tmleadr03
10-03-2012, 12:58
I think I am just going to vote for Obama. The sooner this country hits bottom the sooner we can start rebuilding.
I'm going to write myself in! that will show them
Inconel710
10-03-2012, 13:19
The sad thing GM2 is that we hear this line EVERY election. So, when will it be time for the Libertarian party (or at least libertarian ideas) to get on the national stage? Honestly, Romney isn't going to turn the country around. He'll still have to deal with the Democrats in the Senate and they'll make sure he doesn't succeed in doing anything meaningful - even if he tries (and I'm not sure he'll make more than a token effort). At best, Mitt will slow the process down a little.
As I've said before, I will tell the pollsters that call that I'm voting for Gary Johnson to try and influence their agenda. Come election day, I'll probably vote for Mitt to help CO go that way.
I'm getting really tired of having to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. [Bang]
Aloha_Shooter
10-03-2012, 13:30
I think I am just going to vote for Obama. The sooner this country hits bottom the sooner we can start rebuilding.
Just what do you think you're going to have left to rebuild after another four years of Mao Tze Bama?
It won't change anyone's mind but I blame the Perot voters for 8 years of Billy Boy Clinton and I'll blame Johnson voters even more than the mind-numbed Obamabots if his vote margin proves the difference for an Obama victory. Obamabots are just freaking stupid -- people voting for Johnson this year are smart enough to know Obama is a Marxist anti-American nutjob without the vaguest idea of what the Constitution actually says but they are still willing to cut the country's nose off to spite their sister's face.
Personally I'm fucking tired of being told every 4 years that THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN US HISTORY! WE HAVE TO STOP THE TREND AND REVERSE IT BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.
Every goddamn time, it's the most important election ever. And every goddamn time, the GOP puts forth a shit candidate. And every time we resolve to hold our noses and vote for him even though we don't like him, because the alternative could be worse. And we resolve to do better next time. And then the next time comes and its the same goddamned story.
Fuck the two party system and fuck it's stranglehold on America. We get to choose between progressive authoritarians and religious authoritarians. Fuck it. Might as well write in a cartoon character. It'll have the same effect.
Fuck fuck fuckity fuck fuck.
Goodburbon
10-03-2012, 13:40
If one of those parties wanted my vote they should've competed for it. Instead they seem to be competing for which of them I hate a little bit less.
The sad thing GM2 is that we hear this line EVERY election. So, when will it be time for the Libertarian party (or at least libertarian ideas) to get on the national stage? Honestly, Romney isn't going to turn the country around. He'll still have to deal with the Democrats in the Senate and they'll make sure he doesn't succeed in doing anything meaningful - even if he tries (and I'm not sure he'll make more than a token effort). At best, Mitt will slow the process down a little.
As I've said before, I will tell the pollsters that call that I'm voting for Gary Johnson to try and influence their agenda. Come election day, I'll probably vote for Mitt to help CO go that way.
I'm getting really tired of having to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. [Bang]
I've not really heard this EVERY election, but then again I wasn't paying much attention until recently... But I have to ask: SO FUCKING WHAT? It'll be time for the libertarian/green/voldemort party when it's their time. Right now we've seen a shift in power to a degree never before seen. We've seen an outcry of communism spread through our land (OWS), we've seen a call for a return to liberty (tea), we've seen our foreign policy turned on it's head, and we've seen, for the first time since 2001, a terrorist attack on US citizens that weren't military- But this time nothing is done, worse than nothing, it's denied, it's covered up, it's lied about. This is the worst administration for the freedoms many of us here have fought and shed tears/blood/sweat for. Reagan put it best: "Freedom is never more than a generation away from extinction." We are looking at that generation, right here, right now.
It's been repeated time and time again, we don't know for sure what Romney will do, but we do know what Obama will do, and can we really afford that? It's time to draw a line in the sand, you're either with us (freedom) or against us (Obama/Communism), it's not just about Romney, he's a small piece to the bigger picture. I don't love the guy, I don't think he's the best we can come up with, but he's all we have to defeat the current regime. I honestly do fear that if Obama wins this election, some way, shape, or form, it could very well be the last election we ever have in this country...
In the 1700's there was a whisper on the wind of freedom, so fragile it could be destroyed so easily. Today we see that same threat looming. What could happen in 2013? 2014? and so on? What would we do if somehow, someway, Obama was able to dissolve the congress, declare a state of emergency and quell any opposition with the wave of a hand? It's happened before, certainly not here, but what's stopping it from happening here? Us. We the people are stopping it. But what happens when we the people invite it? If just 51% of the population votes this way, we the people who hold these ideals of freedom become the minority, and then it truly will become an uphill battle. What would you do if America had it's own "October Revolution"? When the entitled seize that of the workers, and all are forced to live in the state owned nation?
HoneyBadger
10-03-2012, 13:44
If one of those parties wanted my vote they should've competed for it. Instead they seem to be competing for which of them I hate a little bit less.
+1
Fuck fuck fuckity fuck fuck.
+10
people voting for Johnson this year are smart enough to know Obama is a Marxist anti-American nutjob without the vaguest idea of what the Constitution actually says but they are still willing to cut the country's nose off to spite their sister's face.
If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
Teufelhund
10-03-2012, 13:44
On a conference call at the moment, but I'm looking forward to having my eyes opened by an article on "rightsidenews.com." Rest assured I'll respond when I'm done.
Sharpienads
10-03-2012, 13:53
Does anybody who is voting third party truly believe that that candidate is going to win this election?
Honest question.
Inconel710
10-03-2012, 13:54
I've not really heard this EVERY election, but then again I wasn't paying much attention until recently... But I have to ask: SO FUCKING WHAT? It'll be time for the libertarian/green/voldemort party when it's their time. Right now we've seen a shift in power to a degree never before seen. We've seen an outcry of communism spread through our land (OWS), we've seen a call for a return to liberty (tea), we've seen our foreign policy turned on it's head, and we've seen, for the first time since 2001, a terrorist attack on US citizens that weren't military- But this time nothing is done, worse than nothing, it's denied, it's covered up, it's lied about. This is the worst administration for the freedoms many of us here have fought and shed tears/blood/sweat for. Reagan put it best: "Freedom is never more than a generation away from extinction." We are looking at that generation, right here, right now.
It's been repeated time and time again, we don't know for sure what Romney will do, but we do know what Obama will do, and can we really afford that? It's time to draw a line in the sand, you're either with us (freedom) or against us (Obama/Communism), it's not just about Romney, he's a small piece to the bigger picture. I don't love the guy, I don't think he's the best we can come up with, but he's all we have to defeat the current regime. I honestly do fear that if Obama wins this election, some way, shape, or form, it could very well be the last election we ever have in this country...
In the 1700's there was a whisper on the wind of freedom, so fragile it could be destroyed so easily. Today we see that same threat looming. What could happen in 2013? 2014? and so on? What would we do if somehow, someway, Obama was able to dissolve the congress, declare a state of emergency and quell any opposition with the wave of a hand? It's happened before, certainly not here, but what's stopping it from happening here? Us. We the people are stopping it. But what happens when we the people invite it? If just 51% of the population votes this way, we the people who hold these ideals of freedom become the minority, and then it truly will become an uphill battle. What would you do if America had it's own "October Revolution"? When the entitled seize that of the workers, and all are forced to live in the state owned nation?
I understand your point and I felt the same way twelve years ago. Then I watched my chosen candidate say one thing and do another for eight years. I watched the "compassionate conservative" prove how liberal and progressive he really was. I give all due respect to GWB for how he handled Afghanistan, but less respect for jumping into Iraq and trying to nation build on the cheap, and no respect for expanding Medicare and backing down when he had a chance to really reform Social Security. At the end, the nation was in worse shape financially and any good will the Republican party had at the beginning was flushed away and ensured the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress. Then to put the cherry on top, the best candidate the Republicans could come up with was McCain! [Bang]
We're still going off a cliff. How fast it happens remains to be seen.
HoneyBadger
10-03-2012, 13:55
Does anybody who is voting third party truly believe that that candidate is going to win this election?
Honest question.
Nope.
Honest answer.
Sharpienads
10-03-2012, 13:58
Nope.
Honest answer.
So you're voting third party not believing that guy is going to win?
Does anybody who is voting third party truly believe that that candidate is going to win this election?
Honest question.
No, but I have a clear conscience because I didn't vote to destroy my beliefs and my country by choosing evil A or evil B.
Teufelhund
10-03-2012, 14:03
Does anybody who is voting third party truly believe that that candidate is going to win this election?
Honest question.
No.
I have a question for you: Do you truly believe the purpose of an election is to try to guess the winner?
Inconel710
10-03-2012, 14:05
Does anybody who is voting third party truly believe that that candidate is going to win this election?
Honest question.
Nope. Just tired of the false dichotomy.
CrufflerSteve
10-03-2012, 14:05
I'm sorry but I find that article unhinged. If you're really convinced by this you should lay off the caffeine for awhile. I could see a case for the current head of the asylum being a squishy Northern European Socialist type but "four years under a communist Obama dictatorship" is flat out stupid. If that has any truth then every president at least back to Woodrow Wilson and maybe further is a communist. Calvin Coolidge might be an exception but Mittens would also fit into this insane definition. When definition get spread too broad they become useless.
I agree with Ridge that I'm sick of being told every four years that the world will end if the Republican hack is not elected. I was being told in the 80's how the Democraps were going to use the Russian army to come take our guns. Now its a Mooslim Commie. Screw both parties.
I'm especially dismayed to see how the Republican party has become the Monster Raving Loony Party. http://www.omrlp.com/ If Ronald Reagan turned up nowadays you'd call him a commie and run him out of town. The Teabaggers have really ruined a grand old party. Now it's just a group of Koch suckers. The GOP has become the John Birch Society. A bunch of white dingbats who repulse everybody else.
Steve
HoneyBadger
10-03-2012, 14:06
So you're voting third party not believing that guy is going to win?
I think I already said this once here: If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. In this case, the illusion of choice.
Also:
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
-Dwight D. Eisenhower, Inaugural Address, January 20, 1953
HoneyBadger
10-03-2012, 14:06
Nope. Just tired of the false dichotomy.
Yes!
DD977GM2
10-03-2012, 14:35
The sad thing GM2 is that we hear this line EVERY election. So, when will it be time for the Libertarian party (or at least libertarian ideas) to get on the national stage? Honestly, Romney isn't going to turn the country around. He'll still have to deal with the Democrats in the Senate and they'll make sure he doesn't succeed in doing anything meaningful - even if he tries (and I'm not sure he'll make more than a token effort). At best, Mitt will slow the process down a little.
As I've said before, I will tell the pollsters that call that I'm voting for Gary Johnson to try and influence their agenda. Come election day, I'll probably vote for Mitt to help CO go that way.
I'm getting really tired of having to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. [Bang]
I agree with you 100% I dont like that I my vote is an illegitimate child when it comes to inheritance, but Im not going to allow thebunghole to be re-elected.
If there was even a serious shot at 3rd party wether libertarian or independent or whatever
at getting POTUS, then they would have my vote on top of finacial donations.
Until then, Im going to advocate for a Republican to slow the process and
help us gun owners out as much as I can.
Maybe I should run next election cycle and say "hope and change if you are willing to do hard work" and get my ass elected to POTUS[Weight][Pepsi]
jhood001
10-03-2012, 14:41
This topic again!
8-13-12:
I'm not on the whole with us or against us, it's just the reality of the situation.
Today:
It's time to draw a line in the sand, you're either with us (freedom) or against us (Obama/Communism), it's not just about Romney, he's a small piece to the bigger picture.
[Stooge]
HoneyBadger
10-03-2012, 15:04
This topic again!
8-13-12:
I'm not on the whole with us or against us, it's just the reality of the situation.
Today:
It's time to draw a line in the sand, you're either with us (freedom) or against us (Obama/Communism), it's not just about Romney, he's a small piece to the bigger picture.
[Stooge]
I think Ronin would make an excellent politician. Wait, no he wouldn't. Wait, yes he would. etc.
I think Ronin would make an excellent politician. Wait, no he wouldn't. Wait, yes he would. etc.
I would never aspire to become a politician- I think along the lines of Jefferson and Washington, I wouldn't want the job, you can't trust someone who actually wants to become a politician, it's a form of public service, not a career (well that's what it was intended to be). And as for that quote there (how long to dig that up jhood?)- we're coming up on 30 days left- yeah, things tend to change, just like I used to be 100% behind Dodge vehicles, now I'm all about German autos- nothing wrong with adapting and changing. [Beer]
StagLefty
10-03-2012, 16:13
I'm going to write myself in! that will show them
"Sniper7 for President" Quite the yard sign I dare say [ROFL1]
jhood001
10-03-2012, 16:24
And as for that quote there (how long to dig that up jhood?)-
HA! I thought you would like that! The search took a couple of minutes. It just stood out because I absolutely loathe that phrase when it is used to cow others into doing what someone else wants them to do.
nothing wrong with adapting and changing. [Beer]
No, there sure isn't. I do, however, believe there is something 100% wrong with changing what one says from one moment to the next for the sake of 'winning' an argument. Which I believe you're completely guilty off in this case. And that was what HoneyBadger was getting at in case you missed it.
Teufelhund
10-03-2012, 17:15
Finally got a chance to read the article from the OP. As expected, total fear-mongering garbage. I'm almost sure one of the Chicken Little clones here wrote it. I won't dignify it with an analysis.
Nice melodramatic diatribe, Ronin, as usual. I won't quote the whole thing, but this is my favorite part:
I honestly do fear that if Obama wins this election, some way, shape, or form, it could very well be the last election we ever have in this country...
If it were actually possible for our elected President to crown himself king and throw the entire system that has existed for over 200 years out the window in one term, do you really think BO is the first and only person who would try it? Nevermind that; if this situation was even remotely possible, is the head that wears the crown to blame or the hands that place it there?
Since the Republicans and Democrats have taken turns imposing so many restrictions on our Rights over the past several decades, I wonder if we can dupe you into implementing a Voter IQ Prerequisite. That will solve a large slice of the problem right out of the gate. (this is a joke btw, put your flamethrowers down)
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/318986_352027111557685_1034195063_n.jpg
This 'story' assumes that all 3rd party voters, if forced to choose, would choose Mittens. Dangerous assumption at this juncture in our history. This call to arms could backfire and cause more 3rd party voters to vote Obama to show the GOP how effed up the party has really become. If they can't put forth a candidate that people vote for out of default based on what Obama has done then they need to look at themselves as a party at some point.
Ron Paul 2012!
HoneyBadger
10-04-2012, 10:04
Hypothetical here:
If BHO wins, will all the republicans just be blindly mad at Ron Paul, Gary Johnson, Libertarians, etc and blame whatever Obama does on them? Or will Republicans see the internal problems that caused so many to vote 3rd party and change?
ronaldrwl
10-04-2012, 10:06
GOP puts forth a shit candidate.
Hmm, no. The GOP is not deciding who the candidate is. It's dump ass voters that decide that. More people voted for dumb ass John McCain. And yes, each election is getting more critical as we slide into socialism. You can't just reverse the direction of the Titanic. You got to slow it down and gradually turn it. I wish there was a quick fix but there isn't. We've got two choices each election. More left or more right. Make your choice. Buck up and get ready for a long long battle. It's not going to change for the good in one election. And guess what!!! In four years it will be the most important election in your life. Get ready for it!
dwalker460
10-04-2012, 10:17
Blame? Thats a liberal issue my man. I wont "blame" anyone. I will tell you that at this point in history, a 3rd party is not going to win a Presidency.
Now, if a 3rd party was to become organized, win elections at the local and state level, have a fair number of actual members of the party elected to Congress (lets say 10-15%), have actual members of the party considered for SCOTUS positions, etc. THEN MAYBE a 3rd party would work. A 3rd party President at this point will be a lame duck and get jack shit done. He will not be respected by either Dems or GOP and the public at large will see him as a charlatan. A vote for a 3rd party President is not a vote for change, its a vote because your being a pissy little brat.
Personally, the 3D party sounds exactly like a Conservative who cannot deal with the reality of modern life, and who wants to go back to the pioneer days. I have yet to talk to a third party supporter who had a real clue about taxes other than "flat tax" or other sweeping generalizations, and who really can only spout off a bunch of generalizations about reducing goverment (hey sounds like a Republican platform!) with no actual method to do it besides radio show commentary of "get rid of all government agencies- why do we need a Department of Agriculture or bla blah blah"- yeah, theres a solution in there somewhere.
Third party supporters keep trying to maintain that both the existing parties are the same, and they are wrong and absolutely close minded when it is suggested they actually look into the policies and history they are basing their opinions on.
Full Disclosure- one of my good friends is a Libertarian, and we argue back and forth a lot. I cant change his belief, and he cannot find enough facts to get me to support his.
Hmm, no. The GOP is not deciding who the candidate is.
They're not? Pretty convenient of them to change the rules on the fly to disallow all Ron Paul delegates. But they're not deciding who the candidate is, I forgot.
ronaldrwl
10-04-2012, 10:28
Ron Paul is a distraction that got very few votes. No votes = no canidate
HoneyBadger
10-04-2012, 10:29
Blame? Thats a liberal issue my man. I wont "blame" anyone.
I'll hold you to that after the election.
A 3rd party President at this point will be a lame duck and get jack shit done.
How is this a bad thing?
A vote for a 3rd party President is not a vote for change, its a vote because your being a pissy little brat.
Take it easy you presumptuous dick.
Personally, the 3D party sounds exactly like a Conservative who cannot deal with the reality of modern life, and who wants to go back to the pioneer days.
The only thing right about what you just said is that Libertarians (a third party) want to go back to the freedoms that Americans had during the "pioneer days". I would contend that most Republicans who vote the ticket no matter what are the ones who cannot deal with reality of modern life.
I have yet to talk to a third party supporter who had a real clue about taxes other than "flat tax" or other sweeping generalizations, and who really can only spout off a bunch of generalizations about reducing goverment (hey sounds like a Republican platform!) with no actual method to do it besides radio show commentary of "get rid of all government agencies- why do we need a Department of Agriculture or bla blah blah"- yeah, theres a solution in there somewhere.
Clearly you have never listened to the Libertarian platform or any Libertarian candidate speak. "Flat tax" is not even a part of the Libertarian platform. Ron Paul and Gary Johnson both laid out very clear and specific plans for reducing government - In fact, Ron Paul was the only Republican Primary candidate with an actual plan to get America out of debt. It was all on paper with actual numbers and actual specific places where spending would be cut.
Third party supporters keep trying to maintain that both the existing parties are the same, and they are wrong and absolutely close minded when it is suggested they actually look into the policies and history they are basing their opinions on.
If you're gonna talk shit, back it up. Examples por favor.
Full Disclosure- one of my good friends is a Libertarian, and we argue back and forth a lot. I cant change his belief, and he cannot find enough facts to get me to support his.
Thanks for the "full disclosure"... Maybe your friend ought to do his research while you go do yours.
HoneyBadger
10-04-2012, 10:31
They're not? Pretty convenient of them to change the rules on the fly to disallow all Ron Paul delegates. But they're not deciding who the candidate is, I forgot.
Nah, it wasn't staged at all! [Bang]
Ron Paul is a distraction that got very few votes. No votes = no canidate
Losers always go down in history as "distractions". That's the winner's privilege, by whatever means they "won".
Goodburbon
10-04-2012, 10:31
Hmm, no. The GOP is not deciding who the candidate is. It's dump ass voters that decide that. More people voted for dumb ass John McCain. And yes, each election is getting more critical as we slide into socialism. You can't just reverse the direction of the Titanic. You got to slow it down and gradually turn it. I wish there was a quick fix but there isn't. We've got two choices each election. More left or more right. Make your choice. Buck up and get ready for a long long battle. It's not going to change for the good in one election. And guess what!!! In four years it will be the most important election in your life. Get ready for it!
Oddly enough the Titanic hit an iceberg because it didnt stop or turn fast enough.
This country might have had a chance if both parties hadnt nominated progressives.
Ron Paul is a distraction that got very few votes. No votes = no canidate
So a potential competitor to the candidate that the party has already selected is a distraction. Got it. Boy, this whole 'party doesn't select the candidate' stuff sure is confusing.
ronaldrwl
10-04-2012, 10:48
So a potential competitor to the candidate that the party has already selected is a distraction. Got it. Boy, this whole 'party doesn't select the candidate' stuff sure is confusing.
What I don't understand is why a Libertarian is running in a Republican primary anyways? He's not a Republican. So get the muck out of our business.
dwalker460
10-04-2012, 10:50
Dude- did RP get the votes or not? He did not, so he was NOT on the ballot. For fucks sake man just deal with the fact that a third party is not capable of winning currently, and all the crap its supporters keep throwing out there sounds like nothing more than sour grapes.
You want facts? I could exercise my google-fu and spout off a bunch of stats and dates blah blah blah, but instead how about this-
Ross Perot- 3rd party guy who actually had some good ideas, but was seen as a bit of a nutcase, withdrew. nothing more than a distraction.
Ralph Nader- oh yeah, I have not forgotten about that guy
Ron Paul- Scary dude, very scary. Do you actually understand his methodolgy? Its deluded and doesnt make sense. He will never be elected President and it does not take much thought processes to come to this conclusion.
But lets say he WAS somehow elected, he would get nothing done. Literally nothign would get done and this country would be worse off than it is now.
Believe otherwise? Explain how a guy who has no respect amongst his peers and no leverage of any kind will get anything done with Congress? or the SCOTUS? Please tell me how this fairy tale is going to work, because I think we all know it cannot.
Gary Johnson- Really? Sounds like a good guy, has good intentions, but again, he cannot get anything done.
As far as restoring the Rights we had in the beginning, good luck with RP or GJ getting that done. Want those Rights restored? Get a majority of the US citizenry behind you and work for a change. Say it cant get done? Sure wont the way your going about it.
HoneyBadger
10-04-2012, 10:50
What I don't understand is why a Libertarian is running in a Republican primary anyways? He's not a Republican. So get the muck out of our business.
He is doing what so many of you begged for: he is changing the party from within. Too bad the Republican Party changed the rules after he won enough states to get on the ballot... But lets not stir those embers back up...
What I don't understand is why a Libertarian is running in a Republican primary anyways? He's not a Republican. So get the muck out of our business.
So which is it? Enact real change from the inside or get out of our business and act like a sniveling three year old by running in a 3rd party? Now I'm really cornfused. Seems that a good man who isn't in the pockets of big corporations can't get a fair shot in the freest nation in the world... the land of opportunity.
Dude- did RP get the votes or not? He did not, so he was NOT on the ballot. For fucks sake man just deal with the fact that a third party is not capable of winning currently, and all the crap its supporters keep throwing out there sounds like nothing more than sour grapes.
You want facts? I could exercise my google-fu and spout off a bunch of stats and dates blah blah blah, but instead how about this-
Ross Perot- 3rd party guy who actually had some good ideas, but was seen as a bit of a nutcase, withdrew. nothing more than a distraction.
Ralph Nader- oh yeah, I have not forgotten about that guy
Ron Paul- Scary dude, very scary. Do you actually understand his methodolgy? Its deluded and doesnt make sense. He will never be elected President and it does not take much thought processes to come to this conclusion.
But lets say he WAS somehow elected, he would get nothing done. Literally nothign would get done and this country would be worse off than it is now.
Believe otherwise? Explain how a guy who has no respect amongst his peers and no leverage of any kind will get anything done with Congress? or the SCOTUS? Please tell me how this fairy tale is going to work, because I think we all know it cannot.
Gary Johnson- Really? Sounds like a good guy, has good intentions, but again, he cannot get anything done.
As far as restoring the Rights we had in the beginning, good luck with RP or GJ getting that done. Want those Rights restored? Get a majority of the US citizenry behind you and work for a change. Say it cant get done? Sure wont the way your going about it.
Typical 'RP can't do ANYTHING in office but BO can ruin our country!' speak.
dwalker460
10-04-2012, 10:59
Then explain how RP can get ANYTHING through a Congress that will not work with him? Explain how he will enact the policies he has outlined. Explain how, within the Constitution, a 3rd Party candidate is going to be effective.
Dont worry, I will wait..
On the other hand, Obaloney can get things done because he has support in Congress and the SCOTUS. JUST LOOK AT OBAMACARE. Take off the blinders and actually see whats going on and how things work, because right now you sound like a radio talk show host- spouting off without having to account for or explain the HOW things actually will happen or work.
Then explain how RP can get ANYTHING through a Congress that will not work with him? Explain how he will enact the policies he has outlined. Explain how, within the Constitution, a 3rd Party candidate is going to be effective.
Dont worry, I will wait..
On the other hand, Obaloney can get things done because he has support in Congress and the SCOTUS. JUST LOOK AT OBAMACARE. Take off the blinders and actually see whats going on and how things work, because right now you sound like a radio talk show host- spouting off without having to account for or explain the HOW things actually will happen or work.
Agreed.
In order for things to happen groups of people need to come to an agreement. A 3rd party president will not be able to build this consensus simply because he does not know how.
The changes that have occured under the Obama administration have come about becuause many citizens, the media, congress, and cabinent members all agreed to them. A third party won't garner this kind of support.
We can go into inclusive (D) and (R) vs exclusive (3rd) but I've already covered that topic in a different post.
HoneyBadger
10-04-2012, 11:06
Dude- did RP get the votes or not? He did not, so he was NOT on the ballot. For fucks sake man just deal with the fact that a third party is not capable of winning currently, and all the crap its supporters keep throwing out there sounds like nothing more than sour grapes.
Ron Paul in fact DID get enough votes to be on the ballot. He won more than enough states to be in the Primary, then the Republican party changed the rules by almost doubling the number of states needed to some arbitrary number that was conveniently one more than Ron Paul won.
You want facts? I could exercise my google-fu and spout off a bunch of stats and dates blah blah blah, but instead how about this- My responses in RED.
Ross Perot- 3rd party guy who actually had some good ideas, but was seen as a bit of a nutcase, withdrew. nothing more than a distraction.
Withdrew? Where are you getting this garbage from?
Ralph Nader- oh yeah, I have not forgotten about that guy
Ron Paul- Scary dude, very scary. Do you actually understand his methodolgy? Its deluded and doesnt make sense. He will never be elected President and it does not take much thought processes to come to this conclusion. Very Scary? Do YOU understand his methodology? I don't think so! He is obviously not still running for president anyway, so whatever argument you are trying to make here is moot.
But lets say he WAS somehow elected, he would get nothing done. Literally nothign would get done and this country would be worse off than it is now. How would the country be worse off than it is now if nothing was done? "Doing nothing" would have America coasting off the cliff. Currently, the driver has his foot pressed hard on the accelerator and we are going straight over the edge a lot quicker than you think. Not making the situation worse if definitely something good in my book.
Believe otherwise? Explain how a guy who has no respect amongst his peers and no leverage of any kind will get anything done with Congress? or the SCOTUS? Please tell me how this fairy tale is going to work, because I think we all know it cannot. No respect among his peers? No leverage? How did he just pass his "Audit the Fed" bill in the House (H.R. 459) with a veto-proof 327-98 vote? Audit the Fed is the most anti-big-government bill in decades. It calls for transparency and calls out the federal government on its bad practices with American money. S. 202 is currently waiting to be scheduled in the Senate.
Gary Johnson- Really? Sounds like a good guy, has good intentions, but again, he cannot get anything done. Again, you're just blowing smoke.
As far as restoring the Rights we had in the beginning, good luck with RP or GJ getting that done. Want those Rights restored? Get a majority of the US citizenry behind you and work for a change. Say it cant get done? Sure wont the way your going about it.
I certainly didn't say if can't be done. Don't put words in my mouth, it makes you look stupid.
Typical 'RP can't do ANYTHING in office but BO can ruin our country!' speak.
There are democrats, who support Obama, in Congress. Last time I checked, we really haven't elected any libertarians to any congressional seats. So yes, Obama CAN ruin our country, because he has the backing of the dems. Paul can't do diddly because the Libertarians have alienated people for the last few years, and neither party is likely to back him.
Then explain how RP can get ANYTHING through a Congress that will not work with him? Explain how he will enact the policies he has outlined. Explain how, within the Constitution, a 3rd Party candidate is going to be effective.
Dont worry, I will wait..
No need to wait long...
Let's start with the one true power a president has... Presidential Veto. You say he can't get anything done but what he CAN do is veto stuff that keeps taking our constitutional rights away that the current dip shits keep signing into law. NDAA, SOPA, The Patriot Act... I can go on but honestly vetoing any one of those by itself would have been worth having RP in office.
On the other hand, Obaloney can get things done because he has support in Congress and the SCOTUS. JUST LOOK AT OBAMACARE. Take off the blinders and actually see whats going on and how things work, because right now you sound like a radio talk show host- spouting off without having to account for or explain the HOW things actually will happen or work.
Yeah, he'll have lots of support from a Republican majority congress.
You don't think that having the first ever president that wasn't R or D would enact change at every level? You don't think the D's and R's would be forced to look at how bad they have gotten to lose the majority of the nation? And I'm the one blind to reality.
jackthewall81
10-04-2012, 11:12
Personally I'm fucking tired of being told every 4 years that THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN US HISTORY! WE HAVE TO STOP THE TREND AND REVERSE IT BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.
Every goddamn time, it's the most important election ever. And every goddamn time, the GOP puts forth a shit candidate. And every time we resolve to hold our noses and vote for him even though we don't like him, because the alternative could be worse. And we resolve to do better next time. And then the next time comes and its the same goddamned story.
Fuck the two party system and fuck it's stranglehold on America. We get to choose between progressive authoritarians and religious authoritarians. Fuck it. Might as well write in a cartoon character. It'll have the same effect.
Fuck fuck fuckity fuck fuck.Well said my man. Two party system needs to end.
This thread and all the other 3rd party threads are the shining example of why the right/republican/conservative whatever you want to call it will never learn. Cannibalism. Look at what you think of each other and will say about people who you should be embracing, good god. You (republicans and libertarians here) should be embracing each other. Remember Reagans conservative stool?
For my fellow Libertarians, please heed my request, stop being so hard headed. Going all or nothing from the current leaning of the party all the way to our views is impossible and snaps the ties to our conservative brethren and makes us look like children. Baby steps. Work to get those types you like in local elections, and actually getting national candidates that more resemble your views step by step. Is it all fluffy rainbows? no but polarizing yourself isn't the answer.
Sharpienads
10-04-2012, 11:14
Not that it really adds anything to the conversation, but I believe we have had a third party president before.
Rust_shackleford
10-04-2012, 11:15
Honey Badger I'm not gay, but I love you!
Sharpienads
10-04-2012, 11:16
This thread and all the other 3rd party threads are the shining example of why the right/republican/conservative whatever you want to call it will never learn. Cannibalism. Look at what you think of each other and will say about people who you should be embracing, good god. You (republicans and libertarians here) should be embracing each other. Remember Reagans conservative stool?
For my fellow Libertarians, please heed my request, stop being so hard headed. Going all or nothing from the current leaning of the party all the way to our views is impossible and snaps the ties to our conservative brethren and makes us look like children. Baby steps. Work to get those types you like in local elections, and actually getting national candidates that more resemble your views step by step. Is it all fluffy rainbows? no but polarizing yourself isn't the answer.
One of the most logical things I've read today.
Rooskibar03
10-04-2012, 11:23
I think I am just going to vote for Obama. The sooner this country hits bottom the sooner we can start rebuilding.
No offense as we aren't friends and I don't know anything about you other then most of the guys here are really good people and we share a lot in common, BUT.
that is the stupidest fricken thing I hear people say. Guess what, there won't be anything left to rebuild. This nation will be changed for the worse. We will likely see a revolution of sorts, and as much as we all like think we're prepared, none of us should want to see our nation torn apart in that way.
If Obama gets another term and we loose the house or senate hang on it is not going to end well. The bottom will rise up, people will scream for someone to fix things, and the top will clamp down and we are done.
HoneyBadger
10-04-2012, 11:24
This thread and all the other 3rd party threads are the shining example of why the right/republican/conservative whatever you want to call it will never learn. Cannibalism. Look at what you think of each other and will say about people who you should be embracing, good god. You (republicans and libertarians here) should be embracing each other. Remember Reagans conservative stool?
For my fellow Libertarians, please heed my request, stop being so hard headed. Going all or nothing from the current leaning of the party all the way to our views is impossible and snaps the ties to our conservative brethren and makes us look like children. Baby steps. Work to get those types you like in local elections, and actually getting national candidates that more resemble your views step by step. Is it all fluffy rainbows? no but polarizing yourself isn't the answer.
Well put. You are completely right, but sometimes... SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET!!!! [ROFL1]
Honey Badger I'm not gay, but I love you!
Also well put. [Coffee]
This thread and all the other 3rd party threads are the shining example of why the right/republican/conservative whatever you want to call it will never learn. Cannibalism. Look at what you think of each other and will say about people who you should be embracing, good god. You (republicans and libertarians here) should be embracing each other. Remember Reagans conservative stool?
For my fellow Libertarians, please heed my request, stop being so hard headed. Going all or nothing from the current leaning of the party all the way to our views is impossible and snaps the ties to our conservative brethren and makes us look like children. Baby steps. Work to get those types you like in local elections, and actually getting national candidates that more resemble your views step by step. Is it all fluffy rainbows? no but polarizing yourself isn't the answer.
In a perfect world this is all great ideas. In the real world it's just not working. In a perfect world RP would be on the ballot as he rightfully deserves. In a perfect world Republicans wouldn't see all 3rd party candidates as loons and crazies since that's what the media told them to think and would take the time to get to actually know them and become amazed by how much they actually agree with. In a perfect world people would actually research what their candidate has DONE IN THE PAST instead of what the media says about them or what they say themselves. In a perfect world people would vote for the candidate they believed was the right man for the job and shit can this 'lesser of two evils' bullshit. In a perfect world people wouldn't make up shit on the internet or wherever anyone will listen about 3rd party candidates to make others think they're crazy since most people don't think for themselves but that doesn't mean their vote counts any less.
That's not the world we live in unfortunately and all the people with better ideas just sit idly by on the sidelines hoping someone will notice them while they watch the train careen out of control.
dwalker460
10-04-2012, 11:33
Your right, Perot did not withdraw in 1996, he just only recieved 6% of the popular vote, and basically ignored the 2000 election. My bad.
I do exactly understand RP's methodology, and I disagree with a lot of his ideals. SOME things I do agree with him on- like an elimination or downsizing and repurposing of the FCC and similar agencies which we no longer actually need- but his methodology is just wrong.
I personally think RP would make a great advisor or counsel, but I really dont think he can actually get anything done as a President.
Hey I had forgotten about the Fed Audit bill! So I had to go look it up http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/25/federal-reserve-audit-bill_n_1702879.html
Yeap he got that done, with 270 co-sponsors. Only One Republican voted against it. Honestly with the current admin in the Fed I dont see how this bill could have failed. No one trusts them and their "QE" measures.
Doing nothing is a death trap. Do nothing and the debt grows and grows, unemployeement gets extended again and again, welfare is uncontrolled and Obamacare kills small and meduim business costing more and more jobs. Doing nothing does not coast us off the cliff, it launches us over it with no hope of a parachute.
I remember these kinds of responses back when Obaloney was giving his hope and change, give me a chance, give new a chance, bullshit speeches and all the heads full of mush were eating that shit up, not the same as the old guys, something different. Yeah he was different alright. Those voters said the same thing, whats it hurt, he cant do more damage than is already done, blah blah blah. TRILLIONS in debt within days of him taking office was the first clue they were all wrong. And your wrong too.
Also, before I go, I actually applaud RP for running as a Republican and working from within to change policy, I just do not agree that he can get what he says he can get done done.
And until last night, I was fairly lukewarm on Mittens. I liked him as a business guy and thought he was probably the guy for the job, but was unsure he had the nuts to win. Kinda considered him a candy ass. That changed last night during the debate. He was engaged and returning umm uhh vague answers with accurate, directed fire, using facts to combat rhetoric and laying out in concise terms and langauge how he plans to get things done as President.
Yeah yeah, he is not as Conservative as I am, but thats OK, he is Conservative enough. He does not believe everything I believe, and thats OK too because I dont really care if he is a Mormon. I have had Mormon employees and those are some hardworking honest people who are taught respect and to be a good citizen from birth. I respect that, even though as a Southern Baptist from Tennessee I am fundamentally opposed to his religion. Its all good at least he believes in something, and after all, this country was founded on the principles of Freedom of Religion.
Again, I dont believe in or support everything the man says, but I am hiring him to do a job, and I believe he can do the job. I probably would not even mind him as a neighbor.
Teufelhund
10-04-2012, 11:36
This thread and all the other 3rd party threads are the shining example of why the right/republican/conservative whatever you want to call it will never learn. Cannibalism. Look at what you think of each other and will say about people who you should be embracing, good god. You (republicans and libertarians here) should be embracing each other. Remember Reagans conservative stool?
For my fellow Libertarians, please heed my request, stop being so hard headed. Going all or nothing from the current leaning of the party all the way to our views is impossible and snaps the ties to our conservative brethren and makes us look like children. Baby steps. Work to get those types you like in local elections, and actually getting national candidates that more resemble your views step by step. Is it all fluffy rainbows? no but polarizing yourself isn't the answer.
Well said. The most retarded part is most of the self-proclaimed conservatives are libertarian and just don't realize it. Take a look at the definitions some folks are throwing out in one of the other recent threads. They seem to know what they want, but are too scared or stubborn to realize they're voting for something else. I'm tired of arguing with them about it. I need to remember I can lead a person to a solution, but I can't make him think.
Rust_shackleford
10-04-2012, 11:45
Well said. The most retarded part is most of the self-proclaimed conservatives are libertarian and just don't realize it. Take a look at the definitions some folks are throwing out in one of the other recent threads. They seem to know what they want, but are too scared or stubborn to realize they're voting for something else. I'm tired of arguing with them about it. I need to remember I can lead a person to a solution, but I can't make him think.
Much love brother hope you make it after the dollar dies
HoneyBadger
10-04-2012, 11:52
Your right, Perot did not withdraw in 1996, he just only recieved 6% of the popular vote, and basically ignored the 2000 election. My bad. I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about the 1992 election where he received 19% of the vote?
I do exactly understand RP's methodology, and I disagree with a lot of his ideals. SOME things I do agree with him on- like an elimination or downsizing and repurposing of the FCC and similar agencies which we no longer actually need- but his methodology is just wrong. What is wrong about it? Nevermind don't answer that. This thread needs to die.
I personally think RP would make a great advisor or counsel, but I really dont think he can actually get anything done as a President. Slight contradiction here between this and your next statement...
Hey I had forgotten about the Fed Audit bill! So I had to go look it up http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/25/federal-reserve-audit-bill_n_1702879.html
Yeap he got that done, with 270 co-sponsors. Only One Republican voted against it. Honestly with the current admin in the Fed I dont see how this bill could have failed. No one trusts them and their "QE" measures.
Doing nothing is a death trap. Do nothing and the debt grows and grows, unemployeement gets extended again and again, welfare is uncontrolled and Obamacare kills small and meduim business costing more and more jobs. Doing nothing does not coast us off the cliff, it launches us over it with no hope of a parachute. For the last 12 years, our presidential administration has been "doing something to fix the problem" - A problem that didn't exist. The problems wouldn't exist if they weren't messing with a functional system to begin with.
I remember these kinds of responses back when Obaloney was giving his hope and change, give me a chance, give new a chance, bullshit speeches and all the heads full of mush were eating that shit up, not the same as the old guys, something different. Yeah he was different alright. Those voters said the same thing, whats it hurt, he cant do more damage than is already done, blah blah blah. TRILLIONS in debt within days of him taking office was the first clue they were all wrong. And you're wrong too. I am wrong about what? If you really think a Libertarian would make the debt situation worse, then you clearly don't understand what Libertarianism is about, even though earlier you claimed to completely understand Ron Paul.
HoneyBadger
10-04-2012, 11:53
Well said. The most retarded part is most of the self-proclaimed conservatives are libertarian and just don't realize it. Take a look at the definitions some folks are throwing out in one of the other recent threads. They seem to know what they want, but are too scared or stubborn to realize they're voting for something else. I'm tired of arguing with them about it. I need to remember I can lead a person to a solution, but I can't make him think.
Bingo! [Beer]
[ROFL1]
Hogging up the ugly tree lmao
Well said. The most retarded part is most of the self-proclaimed conservatives are libertarian and just don't realize it. Take a look at the definitions some folks are throwing out in one of the other recent threads. They seem to know what they want, but are too scared or stubborn to realize they're voting for something else. I'm tired of arguing with them about it. I need to remember I can lead a person to a solution, but I can't make him think.
What about those of us who don't like to be pigeonholed into a political category that doesn't best suit our own self view? I agree with a lot of foreign policy ideas held by the Republicans, but on many social issues I stand behind the Libertarians. I like both for domestic policy and government, but on a couple independent things I align with the Democrats (very small number of things). But overall, I'm either typically classified as a Tea Party or Constitutionalist/Jeffersonian, and see myself closer to these ideas than the big two, and [almost big] 3rd (that would be D, R, and L). [Beer]
However, I am, for voting purposes, a registered Republican.
What about those of us who don't like to be pigeonholed into a political category that doesn't best suit our own self view?
As I see it there is no room in the Libertarian platform for dissent, my understanding of this is proven every day on this very board. That is why I say the (L) is an exclusive party, meaning that if you don't tow their very narrow line you're excluded.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, maybe one of the (L) people who doesn't think I'm an establishment asshole or pejorative of the day.
HoneyBadger
10-04-2012, 14:30
What is there to be dissentful of? Libertarian philosophy is based on principles, not whatever "values" are currently cool and hip.
Sharpienads
10-04-2012, 14:39
Well said. The most retarded part is most of the self-proclaimed conservatives are libertarian and just don't realize it. Take a look at the definitions some folks are throwing out in one of the other recent threads. They seem to know what they want, but are too scared or stubborn to realize they're voting for something else. I'm tired of arguing with them about it. I need to remember I can lead a person to a solution, but I can't make him think.
And you wonder why more people don't want to join your club (or maybe you don't wonder). You just called us retarded, scared, stubborn, and unable to think. We are able to think. We are not scared. Stubborn... yeah, probably some/most of us. I'm sure that we agree on a lot of things, if not most things. This election seems to be a big sticking point. I understand you arguments, but a lot of times Libertarians do come off as either whiny, better than the rest of us, unrealistic, or a combination. Would I vote for RP or GJ if they had the nomination? Absofuckinlutely. Will I vote 3d party this election? Nope. The change we all want won't happen overnight, we need to get there incrementally.
As far as what we call ourselves, one day the Libertarian party will grow and get more popular. And if/when that day comes, they will be just as corrupt as the other parties, and you'll have to find a new thing to call yourself. I know what being a conservative means to me. I can't help it if others have tarnished the label.
Just my $0.02.
What is there to be dissentful of? Libertarian philosophy is based on principles, not whatever "values" are currently cool and hip.
Exactly. Very narrow, unfortunately for the (L) a very small percentage of the citizenry hold those values.
We have to face the unpleasant truth that the majority of citizens want some measure of federal and state government intervention in their lives even if that intervention is detrimental. That mindset will take decades to reverse. The (L) does not have the patience or foresight to undertake that task, that is why we must work within the (R) to slowly turn that mindset back towards constitutional values.
Sharpienads
10-04-2012, 14:46
What is there to be dissentful of? Libertarian philosophy is based on principles, not whatever "values" are currently cool and hip.
I've heard an argument that I can't be a Libertarian if I didn't want a porn shop to be across the street from my kids elementary school. Do I believe the porn shop has every right to exist? Of course. Do I want it next to an elementary school? No.
Can I still be a Libertarian? Where do you draw the line between local government intervention and/or having a say in what goes on in your local community and having a hands off approach to government? Somebody's not going to be happy. The porn shop is going to say they have a right to build wherever they want, I'm going to say they need to pick a different spot.
Sharpienads
10-04-2012, 14:48
My previous post was post #69, btw. [ROFL1]
Goodburbon
10-04-2012, 14:49
Exactly. Very narrow, unfortunately for the (L) a very small percentage of the citizenry hold those values.
We have to face the unpleasant truth that the majority of citizens want some measure of federal and state government intervention in their lives even if that intervention is detrimental. That mindset will take decades to reverse. The (L) does not have the patience or foresight to undertake that task, that is why we must work within the (R) to slowly turn that mindset back towards constitutional values.
So let's nominate the most moderate, progressive "conservative" candidate ever?
I see things getting better incrementally...
After it all comes crashing down.
Sharpienads
10-04-2012, 14:53
So let's nominate the most moderate, progressive "conservative" candidate ever?
I see things getting better incrementally...
After it all comes crashing down.
I understand your argument. Is Romney the "most moderate, progressive "conservative" candidate ever"? Up for debate.
But what is the alternative? Some vote R, some vote L, and some vote D. Who do you think comes out on top in that situation? Do you honestly think that Romney is just as bad as Obama?
Teufelhund
10-04-2012, 15:43
And you wonder why more people don't want to join your club (or maybe you don't wonder). You just called us retarded, scared, stubborn, and unable to think. We are able to think. We are not scared. Stubborn... yeah, probably some/most of us. I'm sure that we agree on a lot of things, if not most things. This election seems to be a big sticking point. I understand you arguments, but a lot of times Libertarians do come off as either whiny, better than the rest of us, unrealistic, or a combination. Would I vote for RP or GJ if they had the nomination? Absofuckinlutely. Will I vote 3d party this election? Nope. The change we all want won't happen overnight, we need to get there incrementally.
As far as what we call ourselves, one day the Libertarian party will grow and get more popular. And if/when that day comes, they will be just as corrupt as the other parties, and you'll have to find a new thing to call yourself. I know what being a conservative means to me. I can't help it if others have tarnished the label.
Just my $0.02.
So you would rather argue with me than come over to my side, even though you agree with most of what I'm saying, because I was mean to you? Lmao now who's being childish?
I was actually directing that comment directly at you and Ronin because the two of you defined conservative using the definition of a libertarian; I don't think they're the same thing, but maybe a conservative is not what I've always thought. Honestly though, I didn't mean to call anyone names, just a little frustrated with the fact that we have this division between us, when we mostly agree on what we want and what needs to be done. It just seems like obstinance, admittedly it is probably on both our parts.
I understand your argument. Is Romney the "most moderate, progressive "conservative" candidate ever"? Up for debate.
But what is the alternative? Some vote R, some vote L, and some vote D. Who do you think comes out on top in that situation? Do you honestly think that Romney is just as bad as Obama?
Oh I have an answer to this...
Here is where the libertarian "voice" loses interest from the conservatives of non-libertarian belief (granted, like Sharpie said, we do have a lot of concurrent views)- You continuously bash the two party system, what has the libertarian party actually contributed to America's political realm other than bitching and moaning? Have they really pushed to change people's minds, or have they instead alienated and berated people because "they fall for that two party crap"? I'm not insulting or anything here, just from experience, I've seen the GJ and RP supporters this past year say some pretty insulting and disrespectful things when they could be doing a better job of educating and informing people of the L views.
Furthermore, the L's in our society continually say that Romney and Obama are one in the same, just a different approach. If you honestly believe that Romney is no better than Obama, and will just doom this country more, well I'm sorry, I personally believe that is ignorant and incorrect. Now, I will say that yes, there are far better candidates for President than what we have this year (I thought the same thing in '08 with the choice between the unknown guy from Ill, and Emperor Palpatine and his, albeit quite attractive, loony toon AK Governor sidekick) but this is pretty much what we're stuck with, and if you feel that both are incapable of doing a somewhat decent job, you are free to vote however you choose. But this further division between the R and L parties is not going to accomplish anything, much akin to the vast division between the R and D. I have tended to vote R my entire voting life (pretty much Bush's 2nd term to now, not long) but only over the past two years or so have I really thought more independently. But realistically, as much as I would love to see someone who is most qualified for the job, 99 out of 100 times they are not part of the only real parties that have been elected for the past 50 years.
So let's nominate the most moderate, progressive "conservative" candidate ever?
I see things getting better incrementally...
After it all comes crashing down.
And you wonder why no one supports you. The answer is in your mirror.
Goodburbon
10-04-2012, 16:50
Really? We have two parties taking turns driving us into the ground and i'm the problem because i have the audacity to point it out? Are you high?
Goodburbon
10-04-2012, 16:58
I understand your argument. Is Romney the "most moderate, progressive "conservative" candidate ever"? Up for debate.
But what is the alternative? Some vote R, some vote L, and some vote D. Who do you think comes out on top in that situation? Do you honestly think that Romney is just as bad as Obama?
The republican party sold me down the river. I've been sold the lie too long. If they lose their asses again to a 3rd party maybe theyll learn a lesson. Or they could just blame the people who didnt follow blindly, but actually pay attention to what conservative is supposed to be.
Nah, we'll repeal their signature socialist piece of legislation and replace it...with the conservative brand of socialism. Because thats what the conservatives want...right?
Really? We have two parties taking turns driving us into the ground and i'm the problem because i have the audacity to point it out? Are you high?
You just can't have a discussion with anyone without insulting them can you.
Good luck with that.
Sharpienads
10-04-2012, 17:18
So you would rather argue with me than come over to my side, even though you agree with most of what I'm saying, because I was mean to you? Lmao now who's being childish?
I was actually directing that comment directly at you and Ronin because the two of you defined conservative using the definition of a libertarian; I don't think they're the same thing, but maybe a conservative is not what I've always thought. Honestly though, I didn't mean to call anyone names, just a little frustrated with the fact that we have this division between us, when we mostly agree on what we want and what needs to be done. It just seems like obstinance, admittedly it is probably on both our parts.
I'm not being childish, and I don't think you were being mean to me. That's not the reason I don't agree with you guys 100% of the time. The point is there are effective ways to argue. They way Libertarians come off to me and I would think other people is not an effective way. That's all I'm saying. I understand the frustration. It's not so much what we want, but how we get there I guess.
Sharpienads
10-04-2012, 17:26
You just can't have a discussion with anyone without insulting them can you.
Good luck with that.
I've noticed a couple people who have been doing that lately. I'm sure I've been guilty of it, too. I'm horrible at inferring tone in text, and it seems I default to them trying to be insulting. Sometimes it's tough when your passionate about something.
I've noticed a couple people who have been doing that lately. I'm sure I've been guilty of it, too. I'm horrible at inferring tone in text, and it seems I default to them trying to be insulting. Sometimes it's tough when your passionate about something.
Yup, I'm tired of it.
It has been made very clear to me that the (L) does not understand politics whatsoever. They do not understand that in order to win elections you must build a consensus across a wide range of people, that is why I keep saying the (L) is exclusive and the (R) and (D) are inclusive. The (L) cannot debate their position in a manner that will attract others, they inject their verbal poison rendering their good ideas unpalatable. I would be remiss not to mention the pure insanity of thinking that they can burn the Republic to the ground thinking they'll rebuild it, much less survive the horror they have created, that just won't happen.
We have to work the (R) from within, and in spite of seemingly insurmountable odds, we can never give up. I've voted (L) in the past. This year, in my effort to see Mr. Obama take his last flight on Marine 1 I'm voting for Romney. I don't want to think about the next 4 years with Obama, it will be a nightmare for every single citizen, except the elite (D).
KestrelBike
10-04-2012, 18:11
I think I am just going to vote for Obama. The sooner this country hits bottom the sooner we can start rebuilding.
I've been saying this for 4 years.
KestrelBike
10-04-2012, 18:13
Personally I'm fucking tired of being told every 4 years that THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN US HISTORY! WE HAVE TO STOP THE TREND AND REVERSE IT BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.
Every goddamn time, it's the most important election ever. And every goddamn time, the GOP puts forth a shit candidate. And every time we resolve to hold our noses and vote for him even though we don't like him, because the alternative could be worse. And we resolve to do better next time. And then the next time comes and its the same goddamned story.
Fuck the two party system and fuck it's stranglehold on America. We get to choose between progressive authoritarians and religious authoritarians. Fuck it. Might as well write in a cartoon character. It'll have the same effect.
Fuck fuck fuckity fuck fuck.
Ridge is easily my favorite. PONIES FOR POTUS!!!
I can think of one difference between our two choices for this year that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread and it's the choice that each would make to fill probable soon to be empty Supreme Court Justice seats. We've seen what Obama likes to nominate, and I beleive it's very easy to beleive that Mitt would nominate someone much more conservative. If Obama wins and does indeed to place two more justices on the Supreme Court, well, that'll be about the last nail in the coffin for this country.
HoneyBadger
10-04-2012, 18:58
I've noticed a couple people who have been doing that lately. I'm sure I've been guilty of it, too. I'm horrible at inferring tone in text, and it seems I default to them trying to be insulting. Sometimes it's tough when your passionate about something.
Here here [Beer]
Byte Stryke
10-04-2012, 19:30
well I saw on the news that Romney is Losing. So I am not going to waste my vote.
I am Voting for Obama
and I have DD977GM2 to thank for the wonderful logic
it all makes sense now.
Vote for the one you know will win!
spittoon
10-04-2012, 19:44
noooooooooooooooooo[Rant1]
Goodburbon
10-04-2012, 21:53
You just can't have a discussion with anyone without insulting them can you.
Good luck with that.
YOU insulted ME.
I asked if you were high.
Goodburbon
10-04-2012, 22:03
I also don't understand the problem with the L argument.
We are for personal liberty, and responsibility. Fiscal responsibility in government. Limited FEDERAL government. The Federal Government is the problem, not the solution. They have exceeded their powers granted to them by the constitution. The NFA is illegal. It is not up to anyone to legislate the morality of pornography, and it is not up to the government to legislate the type of light bulb I choose to use.
How is that exclusive? Because We don't believe in the legislation of either side's personal morality, thus intruding on the rights of others I belong to an exclusive club? I guess so, because if you believe in legislating the morality of one side or the other you belong to one of those clubs. It doesn't make us any more exclusive than either other side. THEY choose to exclude us, and shoudn't expect our votes.
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