As military suicides rise, focus shifts to private guns

[SuperiorDG]

Okay, it has been shown that suicide rates don't change with the rate of guns in our population, Gary Kleck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck). But somehow the government thinks this will work. This maybe a very slippery road to go down.

As military suicides rise, focus shifts to private guns


"With nearly half of all suicides in the military having been committed with privately owned firearms, the Pentagon and Congress are moving to establish policies intended to separate at-risk service members from their personal weapons. The issue is a thorny one for the Pentagon, with gun-rights advocates and many service members fiercely opposing any policies that could be construed as limiting the private ownership of firearms.
But with suicides continuing to rise this year, senior Defense Department officials are developing a suicide prevention campaign that will encourage friends and families of potentially suicidal service members to safely store or voluntarily remove personal firearms from their homes.
"This is not about authoritarian regulation," Dr. Jonathan Woodson, the assistant secretary of defense for health affairs, said in an interview. "It is about the spouse understanding warning signs and, if there are firearms in the home, responsibly separating the individual at risk from the firearm.""

Full Story. (http://hamptonroads.com/2012/10/military-suicides-rise-focus-shifts-private-guns)

[rockhound]

while the loss of our servicemen is a terrible thing, what are the unintended consequences of this action.

i think this needs to be thought through before knee jerking into a useless action and potentially worse outcome.

the first opportunity to whittle away at the 2nd the left will jump on it,

no one with mental issues should own a firearm, ok I am fine with that, no felons ok i am fine with that, where do you draw the final line where it is ok to own a firearm.

[mephistopheles]

Suicides in general are on the rise, it has surpassed auto crashes as the number one cause of death in the U.S. I know several people who have taken themselves out, including my only brother :(

The whole situation is f***ed

[Teufelhund]

Good plan; they really thought this one through. I'm sure someone intent on suicide won't be able to think of any other way to do it.

[Ridge]

Dealing with emotional trauma and mental health is hard and expensive. Let's just try to ban one of the many ways they can cause harm instead...

[Ronin13]

Good plan; they really thought this one through. I'm sure someone intent on suicide won't be able to think of any other way to do it.

Yep! He gets it! Look at NY- When I was stationed there, for my 3 years at that base (well, one was in Afghanistan) the suicide statistics showed only 1 in 9 suicides were committed with a firearm. Granted, NY has some of the worst firearms laws ever (worst being most restrictive). If someone wants to end their life they'll probably choose the easiest way possible... on occasion that way is not a gun.

[jerrymrc]

We were just talking about this subject in another forum the other day. ;)

[ford_muscle1]

Maybe instead of worrying about our guns maybe the ARMY should stop treating people who seek help for combat trauma like s*#t. Maybe that's a place to start. You will send me to combat multiple times to see crap no one in their right mind should see or do and we have loaded weapons so they could just as easily do it down range as back home and I've seen the aftermath of it happening downrange and at home but let's blame privately owned weapons not the military's inadequacy to help it's troop's without their command treating them bad. Just my opinion and experience.

[Scanker19]

Maybe instead of worrying about our guns maybe the ARMY should stop treating people who seek help for combat trauma like s*#t. Maybe that's a place to start. You will send me to combat multiple times to see crap no one in their right mind should see or do and we have loaded weapons so they could just as easily do it down range as back home and I've seen the aftermath of it happening downrange and at home but let's blame privately owned weapons not the military's inadequacy to help it's troop's without their command treating them bad. Just my opinion and experience.

At ease that common sense.

[rockhound]

Good plan; they really thought this one through. I'm sure someone intent on suicide won't be able to think of any other way to do it.


i was thinking more along the lines of who or what will be their next target if they can't have access to the firearm, the suicide will be horrible, but what is next on the list

[Clint45]

When I was stationed at Ft Leonard Wood in the late 80s, no-one under E-5 was permitted to own any sort of personal firearm on base, including .22 bolt actions. Knives were restricted to under 2 3/4" blades as well.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Gun controllers will grasp at any straw and poke at any figment of the imagination in order to implement their agenda. Most of the vehement gun-banners are also vehemently anti-military (at least from what I've seen) so this tack is way for them to show they "support the troops" without really doing so.

[TAR31]

Suicides in general are on the rise, it has surpassed auto crashes as the number one cause of death in the U.S. I know several people who have taken themselves out, including my only brother :(

The whole situation is f***ed
You must be getting your statistics from obama.

[45XD]

Ok, I get that some people who commit suicide use guns.
But speaking as one who has worked in/around trauma patients for 10+ years, I can assure you that there are other ways...

We'd have to:
1. Ban rope
2. Ban aspirin and tylenol (even though these are extremely ineffective ways to kill oneself)
3. Ban antifreeze
4. Ban parked cars (it's very hard to bring someone back from CO poisoning)
5. Ban driving cars
6. Ban cliffs, parking garages and any other tall buildings
7. Ban knives, razor blades, glass, swords, and any other sharp objects
8. Ban boats
9. Ban prescription pain killers (Obamacare may help with this one)
10. Ban bathtubs
11. And of course, ban alcohol

Oh, forgot one: we should probably ban cops- suicide by cop is on the rise, you know...

I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of suicide- I personally knew 5 people in high school who either committed suicide and had a sibling who committed suicide- I live in a county that has one of the highest suicide rates in the nation- but this is yet another stupid ploy by a bunch of liberal nut-holes who are trying to push through their agenda.

My two cents...

[Buckaroobonsai]

This is touchy subject for me. I was deployed while my best friend was held back for failing a piss test, among other issues. When I returned, my "Top" was the one to tell me that he had gotten drunk and jumped in front of his ex-girlfriend's car as she sped away after dumping him. I felt like shi* for quite some time, wondering if I could have stopped him had I only been there. Looking back now, drugs & alcohol abuse certainly didn't help matters, but I think the lack of any support system is what was really missing. In the front, or in rear, in or out of country, peace or wartime, it doesn't really matter. The life of soldier is never easy. It's hard to explain unless you've been there. Uncle Sam can teach you how to fight, but dealing with other life issues was never really addressed in my AIT. That was back in the late 80's-early 90's. I think personal and psycological issues are better addressed by today's military, but obviously still has a ways to go.

[Irving]

Suicides in general are on the rise, it has surpassed auto crashes as the number one cause of death in the U.S.

Uh, you have a source for that? I bet it is no where close.



On a side note, I just thought of a great way to curb income tax fraud by eliminating jobs...

[WETWRKS]

So...someone intends to commit suicide and they take away their personal firearms...yet they still have access to ones issued them by the government.

Dosn't make sense.

[SAnd]

Suicides in general are on the rise, it has surpassed auto crashes as the number one cause of death in the U.S. I know several people who have taken themselves out, including my only brother :(

The whole situation is f***ed

It must have radically changed. The last statistical year that numbers are available is 2009.

Here are a just a few to compare-
Diseases of heart 598,607
Diabetes mellitus 68,504
Influenza and pneumonia 53,582
Intentional self-harm (suicide) 36,547
Transport accidents 39,057

So unless there has been miraculous advancement in the medicine there are a lot of other causes killing far more than suicides.

The numbers are from this-
Centers for Disease Control link to their latest annual death report.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr59/nvsr59_04.pdf

[mephistopheles]

Uh, you have a source for that? I bet it is no where close.



On a side note, I just thought of a great way to curb income tax fraud by eliminating jobs...

Sources, although I missed a part. Number 1 cause of death via injury but still pretty alarming that more people die by choice than auto wrecks nowadays.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/09/24/suicide-leading-cause-death-us_n_1909772.html

[sniper7]

I don't see where limiting firearms is going to stop people from killing themselves. If they want to do it, there are a ton of ways. a bullet is probably the easiest and most painless. but high altitudes, deep lakes, long rope, knives, cars, drugs, alcohol, etc etc etc all can be used to take ones life.
Helping our soldiers when they come back should be the first priority. I am going to go out on a limb and say that somebody, somewhere, knew the person who committed suicide had some issues that needed looked at and corrected. Nobody will stop them all, but taking away rights will only enhance the problems.

oh...and don't forget Ft. Hood, where a Taliban supporter was the guy who was therapist supposedly helping our troops get past their problems.

[sniper7]

Sources, although I missed a part. Number 1 cause of death via injury.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/09/24/suicide-leading-cause-death-us_n_1909772.html

Enjoy!

Suicide leading cause of death BY INJURY. since 2009 it has been #1 in that category, not leading cause of death.


Yeah, I can see where it would increase. People lose their homes, their families, their jobs, and take their own lives.

from the extremely rich, to the very poor, people will take their own life for god knows what reasons. But that is going to ultimately be their choice, they will get it done no matter what tool it takes.

[SAnd]

I wonder if many people, in the military and out, are reluctant to say anything for fear of losing their civil rights or being tagged as having mental health problems. Having an entry in your medical file could follow you the rest of your life with negative consequences. It's my understanding that some anonymous addiction treatment programs advise their clients not to tell anyone about any help their people seek.

[mephistopheles]

As someone who lost a close family member to suicide I can tell you this, how they get there is irrelevant. The end result is that traumatizing part, gun, rope, car I still would feel the same. If my brother shot himself I wouldn't have gone and melted his and my guns down or blamed the guns for "causing" suicide.

[Irving]

As someone who lost a close family member to suicide I can tell you this, how they get there is irrelevant. The end result is that traumatizing part, gun, rope, car I still would feel the same. If my brother shot himself I wouldn't have gone and melted his and my guns down or blamed the guns for "causing" suicide.

Agreed. And sometimes, people just don't have the time and/or money to help loved ones. Some people cannot be helped.

[mephistopheles]

Agreed. And sometimes, people just don't have the time and/or money to help loved ones. Some people cannot be helped.

I went to a few groups of people who had family die in this way and the story was the same, people start getting better emotionally etc... And then with out warning, it's over. It's hard to help people who you think are just fine. Most people that go through with it just do it, no attempts etc.. History proves banning things just dosent work.

[Irving]

I didn't find out anything until it was too late, but I guess people tried to help in one way or another over years and years and more than one trip to rehab and stuff. Paranoid Schizophrenia + drugs is a tough deal.

[MileHighOutlaw]

Suicide is on a crazy climbing rate with teenagers as well lately. One of my daughters friends took her life last month then two weeks later my daughters best friend took her life as well. My daughter is a emotional wreck and my wife and I are scarred to death that she may be next. I feel bad for everyone that can't seem to find help or at least make the effort to get help.

[Scanker19]

The Mental Health system is a joke at least in the Army. The hurdles that need to be taken to get to someone with a prescribing authority is laughable at best. At the most soldiers can have access to a social worker to talk about it, which may help, maybe not.

Even then they still refer you back to your PA for meds.

They only pretend to care.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Did any of those mental midgets at Puffington Host stop to think that Hollywood's obsession with portraying the darker side of life might have anything to do with the increasing suicide rate? Movies by-and-large used to be uplifting; now even comic book hero movies (X-men, Spider-man, Dark Knight) are depressingly focused on how bad things happen to good people.