View Full Version : school me on M1 Carbines
What do you look for. I'm thinking about getting one. What is a good year and make. I know NOTGING!
hghclsswhitetrsh
10-09-2012, 22:31
All I know is m1 carbine + bring back papers = higher value and collectibility. Rondog will be a much better source for info.
Whu??? How'd I get dragged in to this? Seriously, for the best info, join the CMP forums http://forums.thecmp.org/ and milsurps .com forums http://www.milsurps.com/ , and any others you can come across. There's a book called "War Baby", I think it is, about the M1 Carbines, but I don't have one. I'm sure there's other books too, and collectors clubs.
Essentially, what I know is...wartime carbines were made by a bunch of different contractors, I don't even know how many. Some made less than the others and are rarer, so those cost more. I think Inland made the most, but the chances of finding a wartime carbine of any make that's all original is pretty slim. You might get lucky and find one that was brought home by a soldier in his duffel bag, but those are very, very rare and worth big bucks.
There were several field upgrades made on the carbines during the war, not to mention several rebuilds, so finding one as it was originally made is damn near impossible. There were three types of barrel bands...the type 1 is a skinny thing, type 2 is wider, and type 3 is a type 2 with bayonet lug on it, those are the most common because the carbines were upgraded to that.
The rear sight was originally a 2-position flip sight with no adjustments, basically 100yd. and 300yd. apertures. Those were changed out to the type 2 with windage and elevation adjustments, and were milled. The type 3 sight looks similar but was stamped.
The slot where the oprod rides was originally wood all the way up, but there were stock cracking problems so the stocks were milled out for clearance in that area. Hence, you'll see the terms "high-wood" and "low-wood", high wood being an unmodified stock and worth more money.
Since the parts from all vendors were required to be interchangeable, when the guns were rebuilt the parts would get all mixed around. They didn't care about "correctness", they cared about function. So most old carbines will be mixmasters of parts from everyone. Won't hurt their shootability, but "serious collectors" stress and fret about getting all the "right" parts. I couldn't care less myself.
Then there's the M2, which was selective-fire, and had a slightly different stock, a "potbellied" type. Finding carbines with potbellied stocks is common. And carbines that went to other countries and armies, and the modifications that they did to them. And the various different non-USGI carbines made by many different aftermarket manufacturers.
It goes on and on.
If you can find a decent one for $500, you did very good, values are climbing because people are snapping them up. You'll more likely find 'em $700-$800 range, or even higher. Aftermarket ones are lower priced, typically. Avoid any late-model Universal brand carbines, they had quality issues. The early ones are OK though.
They're fun little rifles to shoot, I have three. An IBM, and Inland, and a Plainfield. I was blessed to be offered the IBM and Inland by members on other forums for $500 each, but that was before the prices took off. My IBM is a dandy, the Inland is more of a mixmaster, and the Plainfield is a nice aftermarket from the 70's.
Great,fun little guns to own and shoot. The CMP link above is the way to go.
Must have the proper accessories with them too! Plus beaucoup magazines and much ammo. Perfect HD and/or SHTF rifles, IMO.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20M1%20carbines/wallcropped.jpg
Scanker19
10-10-2012, 14:19
Start with an inland. Cheapest and easiest to find. CMP market place is a good place to start as most people there have a clue about prices and don't add the "WWII" upgrade to their prices as you can with gunshows.
Get a good mixmaster for you first one so you can appreciate sooting it.
Stay away from Iver Johnson, universal, or Plainfield. They were aftermarket carbines and are not USGI.
USGI are
Inland
Winchester
Underwood
IBM
National Postal Meter
Standard Products (someone bought mine I'd like to buy it back)
Saginaw SG
Saginaw S'G'
Rockola
Quality Hardware
Iwrin Peterson (Good Luck if you don't have $3k to spend)
I wouldn't kick the Plainfields too hard, my Plainfield is my best shooter!
I wouldn't kick the Plainfields too hard, my Plainfield is my best shooter!
Ditto. Became my fun gun almost immediately after I got it. It's a blast!
BigNick73
10-14-2012, 15:52
I also have a universal that shoots fine. It is not usgi but for $150 I've enjoyed it. Not sure what they go for now but wouldn't spend more than about $225 on one.
I have a Universal that works fine too. Fun shooter but I wouldn't buy another one, the platform is just....well odd.
Universals are ok,just a funky way they have the op rod and spring,kinda like a mini 14.Unfortuneatly none of the internal parts except for maybee the bolt is interchangable with the military versions.
There are some people out there who do collect the Uneversals and Plainfields..I've seen them go for $350 in great shape..
Kahr Arms/Auto Ordanance is also making a reproduction as well.And military parts should work on them.I haven't had the chance to fit anything yet to the couple of recievers I have from them yet.
I'm thinking on doing a .357 M1 carbine build :D
I have an IBM Carbine and its my favorite to shoot. I have this book and it has everything in it that you've ever wanted to know about the carbine. http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-M1-Garand-Carbine/dp/0917218833/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351025237&sr=8-1&keywords=Bruce+Canfield+m1+carbine
My two inland's are nice shooters. I don't really feel the need for an AR platform with either of these in my meager stable. Not as modular or easily modified, but they're light, short, handy and deliver plenty of firepower for my purposes. if you can find a USGI version for under $600, you'll be doing well. It's one of my top two favorite "fun guns" along with my marlin 1894 in .357.
I've got a SA M1, absolutely love it! When I first got it, I wasn't really into the "classic" rifles and thought it'd be the first I'd sell of the bunch I got in trade. All it took was one range trip shooting at human-sized steel plates at 300 yards totally sold me on it.
In any event, to answer your question; If you are looking for a USGI type, the CMP link that was referenced earlier in the thread is a great beginning resource. There are also websites that specialize in the M1. One thing I do know is if you are being charged a premium, make sure you do a parts check to ensure they are all USGI or have the same production date. As an example all but one part on my M1 has serial numbers that match up to show a 1943 date with the exception of one part (and the stock) which escapes me now... Just make sure you are getting what you paid for...
I've got a SA M1, absolutely love it! When I first got it, I wasn't really into the "classic" rifles and thought it'd be the first I'd sell of the bunch I got in trade. All it took was one range trip shooting at human-sized steel plates at 300 yards totally sold me on it.
In any event, to answer your question; If you are looking for a USGI type, the CMP link that was referenced earlier in the thread is a great beginning resource. There are also websites that specialize in the M1. One thing I do know is if you are being charged a premium, make sure you do a parts check to ensure they are all USGI or have the same production date. As an example all but one part on my M1 has serial numbers that match up to show a 1943 date with the exception of one part (and the stock) which escapes me now... Just make sure you are getting what you paid for...
Are you talking about M1 rifles (Garands) or carbines? I may be wrong, but I don't think Springfield Armory made any M1 carbines, at least not during WWII. They made buttloads of M1's, M1903's and M1903A3's though.
BlasterBob
11-26-2012, 19:15
When I hear chat about an M1, to me it has always been the Garand. When a lot of folks are saying M1 they may be referring to either the Garand OR the little Carbine. Now when they mention the M2, then I do know that they are referring to the select fire carbine.
Whooops, I mis-read, I was "thinking" Garand....[facepalm]
So what if someone had a WW2 m1 carbine that came home in a duffel bag? Could they get in trouble? Would a letter confirming how the carbine was acquired from the acquirer bring up the value?
paddywagon
12-15-2012, 23:12
So what if someone had a WW2 m1 carbine that came home in a duffel bag? Could they get in trouble? Would a letter confirming how the carbine was acquired from the acquirer bring up the value?
That would be the least of worries now almost 70 years later. Just as long is it is not a M2.! There are a lot of guns that came home that way.
encorehunter
12-16-2012, 07:34
I had a Winchester carbine that I picked up a few years ago, but could never get the thing to shoot accurately. I swabbed it, cleaned it up and shot it again, and I still couldn't get more than 4" groups at 25 yards. It sat in the safe a few years before I traded it off. The guy I traded it to gave me a really nice custom flintlock. Not bad for picking it up for $350 and trading it for a $2400 flinter. What kind of accuracy would a decent carbine give you? I have a bad taste in my mouth still from the last one. Maybe I should give it another chance.
I had a Winchester carbine that I picked up a few years ago, but could never get the thing to shoot accurately. I swabbed it, cleaned it up and shot it again, and I still couldn't get more than 4" groups at 25 yards. It sat in the safe a few years before I traded it off. The guy I traded it to gave me a really nice custom flintlock. Not bad for picking it up for $350 and trading it for a $2400 flinter. What kind of accuracy would a decent carbine give you? I have a bad taste in my mouth still from the last one. Maybe I should give it another chance.
That Winnie probably just needed a new barrel. The accuracy of them, they're only good to about 300 yards. They weren't intended to be long range battle rifles, just PDW's better than the .45 pistols, and good CQB weapons. But one with a good barrel should hit anything at 100 yards that you're capable of hitting.
This guy makes a good video on shooting at 300yds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ozvYaxr6iQ
Not bad for a service rifle with iron sights and factory ammo.
Blockhead
12-20-2012, 06:49
So what if someone had a WW2 m1 carbine that came home in a duffel bag? Could they get in trouble? Would a letter confirming how the carbine was acquired from the acquirer bring up the value?
As stated earlier, there a VERY few carbines (or Garands) that came back in duffle bags that have any proof they did so (I've never seen one). Any brought back that way would have been stolen and I doubt anyone stealing a rifle from Uncle Sam would want a paper trail to prove it. Soldiers in WWII could legally bring home firearms from enemy combatants and I've heard US officers sometimes had the opportunity to buy their sidearm, but no rifles. I've seen quite a few alleged carbine and Garand "bring backs" that were obviously purchased long after the war by a vet and when he passes family members just assume that was his actual service rifle. If someone is trying to sell a US rifle as a bring back, be very leery and have an expert take a look at it for you, especially if they are asking for a lot of money.
On the subject of carbines, they are great little rifles. Here is a Winchester I picked up a few months back and it could be all original. Certainly looks that way to me. Original or not, it is a great example of a carbine with early parts (flip sight, push safety, no bayo lug, highwood stock, etc) and the stock has some amazing figure.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/December%202012/IMG_6472_zps3b362eb4.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/December%202012/IMG_6477_zps404ec66f.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/December%202012/IMG_6476_zps61c02238.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/December%202012/IMG_6475_zps025436e2.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/Blockhead_75/December%202012/IMG_6478_zps65bf4c85.jpg
Damn! I'd sure like to meet that Winchester!
Fuck it, I WANT that Winchester!!!
Anybody found a discrepancy with the serial numbers? I'm holding a Winchester with 6,661,000 number and all I can find is info that claims it doesn't exist. Am I missing something.
james_bond_007
01-12-2013, 08:24
Anybody found a discrepancy with the serial numbers? I'm holding a Winchester with 6,661,000 number and all I can find is info that claims it doesn't exist. Am I missing something.
NOTE: I am not an expert on these. I was curious and spent a few minutes searching the web for you.
This http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/Serialnumbers.html
and this
says that that number belonged to Inland.
Source: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?114508-Winchester-M1-carbine-mfg-dates
http://www.wikkidpissah.com/guns/WinchesterCarbine/carbine%20numbers.jpg
This says it does not exist
http://m1collectorsclub.com/M1_Carbine.html
jerrymrc
01-12-2013, 08:51
I have learned one thing with Military rifles. Never say never.
Blockhead
01-13-2013, 23:46
Can you take a pic of the serial number?
1983319835
Hope these turn out. This is not mine and it is not a M2. You can see the W for Winchester in the second photo. This carbine has been in a closet for 60 years.
Blockhead
02-02-2013, 10:50
Can you get a good close-up shot of just the serial number?
Pinkerton
04-09-2013, 12:45
I have an Inland, nothing special but it was a 4"-5" gun at 100 yards. I replacd the stock with one that was in better shape. That little change turned it into a 2"-2.5" at 100 yards.
Pinkerton OUT!
I have an IBM from '44 that I got from a member here w/o trigger, was able to find IBM parts at a gunshow, and now it shoots pretty well. I think they are great, under-rated guns. If you could find a Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine, you'd only have to carry one type of ammo -- the old Mountain Man way!
I ran across a standard products and inland today. Both had the button safety and in good shape same prices. Not sure which one would be better as far as value
I ran across a standard products and inland today. Both had the button safety and in good shape same prices. Not sure which one would be better as far as value
Which ever one does not have an import mark, has the tighter bore and throat, and in general just looks better. If it's affordable then it's probably a mix-master. Everyone has their favorites. Look at the wear, wood, TE & ME and go from there. All things being equal, if you're not a Chevy guy, go for the SP.
And post up some pics when you bring her home!
milwaukeeshaker
10-03-2014, 14:49
Please, please stay away from later serial number Universals, they are a VERY dangerous gun that could literally blow up in your face. If you own one use it as a wall hanger, or destroy it. DO NOT SHOOT IT!!!!!
If anyone wants to get into the USGI carbines, I have been collecting them for many years, and I am selling them. They are all correct, and will command good prices, they are all shootable, and you will have a carbine that will appreciate in value.
Universals are ok,just a funky way they have the op rod and spring,kinda like a mini 14.Unfortuneatly none of the internal parts except for maybee the bolt is interchangable with the military versions.
There are some people out there who do collect the Uneversals and Plainfields..I've seen them go for $350 in great shape..
Kahr Arms/Auto Ordanance is also making a reproduction as well.And military parts should work on them.I haven't had the chance to fit anything yet to the couple of recievers I have from them yet.
I'm thinking on doing a .357 M1 carbine build :D
Please, please stay away from later serial number Universals, they are a VERY dangerous gun that could literally blow up in your face. If you own one use it as a wall hanger, or destroy it. DO NOT SHOOT IT!!!!!
If anyone wants to get into the USGI carbines, I have been collecting them for many years, and I am selling them. They are all correct, and will command good prices, they are all shootable, and you will have a carbine that will appreciate in value.
Thanks for that info.I knew the early production ones were ok,just never heard about the later produced ones.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.