View Full Version : do I have to sell my house to someone if they make offer? story inside.
HBARleatherneck
10-10-2012, 19:47
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Great-Kazoo
10-10-2012, 19:51
Attorney. You can refuse the contract based on the terms, if you are financing the loan. If they are not pre-qualified for the loan, i would not carry anyone loan wise.
dwalker460
10-10-2012, 19:54
pull the house off the market?
I don't know, but it sure sounds like bullshit to me. You aren't required to even sell the house, so I can't imagine that you can be required to sell to a specific person.
HBARleatherneck
10-10-2012, 20:00
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Great-Kazoo
10-10-2012, 20:03
what constitutes discrimination on my part? i dont like him? is that discrimination? He also put in his original offer, that he gets our mineral rights, when the listing explicitly excluded them. So, it pissed us off that he tried to slip that by us.
You can refuse an offer if you feel it is below your asking price. His inclusion of mineral rights when / IF the original contract states mineral rights are not included in the sale , may constitute fraud. I would press the "real estate" agent, who knows they may have a hand in the whole deal on the back side.
Once Again. ATTORNEY. WHY get dicked around when most consultations are free.
SideShow Bob
10-10-2012, 20:04
May want to check this HUD site out first and consult a real estate attorney before refusing to sell.
The .Gov has their nose in everything........
http://www.hud.gov/fairhousing
hghclsswhitetrsh
10-10-2012, 20:04
Sounds like a freakin dirtbag move to me. I'm tagging this thread for more info, and wish you the best hbar.
HBARleatherneck
10-10-2012, 20:05
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Refuse first offer and immediately pull the house off the market. Contact an attorney before relisting.
I don't blame you at all for not wanting to sell to a criminal.
Please post what your attorney says. I don't understand how it can be illegal. You are not violating anyone's rights by not selling your property to someone. This wouldn't be an issue with a car, why a house?
You check your attorney, if he is the only person with an offer and it meets criteria for the sale you kind of have to to avoid legal issues. I just signed realtor documents and it was very clear in there I can not discriminate refusing to sell the house to someone if they have met all the criteria and no other offers. Are you using a realtor to list and sell on your end?
Look I dont want to be the bearer of bad news. Im not a lawyer, This really sucks. You listed the house with the broker yes? The listing is a contract that specifies that you as the seller will pay the broker 6% if they sell the house correct? If you back out the broker will sue you for the 6%. Happens all the time. The broker thinks that 6% is theirs right now. If he hasnt made a offer yet find him and offer him 5 bills not to make a offer? Im assuming he is prequalified or the broker wouldnt be counting their chickens. Im no lawyer get one quick. Im very sorry.
what constitutes discrimination on my part? i dont like him? is that discrimination?
Yes. By definition.
JohnnyEgo
10-10-2012, 20:16
Not a real estate attorney. No knowledge of real estate whatsoever. But in regards to discrimination, I am pretty sure it has to be based on race, color, religion, national origin, sex, disability, or familial status for HUD to be involved. I see nothing that says you can't discriminate based on criminal record. Landlords and employers everywhere discriminate based on criminal record all the time.
Do you have a Real Estate Agent of your own? Or can you call one and ask? I have to imagine this issue comes up reasonably frequently in the profession.
ChunkyMonkey
10-10-2012, 20:19
Others have answered the broker/agent exclusive to sell agreement part... I ll add the following...
The Fair Housing Act, Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968, covers housing discrimination. This law prohibits housing discrimination by real estate firms and homeowners. This means that homeowners may not refuse to lease or sell property based on race, religion, gender, color, or national origin.
Federal law does not cover 'SEXUAL' or 'CRIMINAL BACKGROUND.' I refuse to rent to a registered sex offender or felon. Your local law sometimes have sexual discrimination law, but I have never seen criminal record/felon discrimination.
Buyer wants to sue.. GO AHEAD! Make them pay for your legal cost - I will stand my ground on this issue...
Now, back to your agent, if your agent insists that he/she has done his/her obligation of finding you a buyer per agreed upon - he/she has the right. However, most good agents/brokers will try their best not to piss off their customers. In many cases, they just continue to market your property to new potential buyers.
I hope this helps.
HBARleatherneck
10-10-2012, 20:20
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I would think that his inclusion of the mineral rights in his offer(when they were specifically excluded in the listing) would invalidate it. Kind of like telling the chevy dealer that you'll pay full sticker price for a Chevette, but you expect a Corvette instead.
Pull it from the market if it isn't a full price offer. You don't have to accept a lower price than what you are asking.
This is not legal advice..but I just had an attorney laugh at me when I asked them.
You can not be forced to sell to anyone. Pull it off the market and they can't do a damn thing.
You don't like the guy, you don't have to sell. You have a right of refusal.
LENDERS can not discriminate. Private parties can, just like a store has the right to refuse service.. No atty would take the case. If it went in front of a jury, juries do NOT like criminals.. bottom line.
I'd check w/ an actual real estate atty, but I'm sure they'll say the same thing.
Did you accept the offer? if not, that's all it is. You said it was and "okay" offer so I assume it was not a full price offer. refuse the offer.
I don't know what happens if he offers full price and agrees to the terms of the original contract...
spittoon
10-10-2012, 20:26
Refuse first offer and immediately pull the house off the market. Contact an attorney before relisting.
I don't blame you at all for not wanting to sell to a criminal. sorry this shit happens to good people
Great-Kazoo
10-10-2012, 20:27
Pull it from the market if it isn't a full price offer. You don't have to accept a lower price than what you are asking.
Not until the contract between seller & agent has gone past the agreed upon time.
Wait until HB consults his attorney.
Ok red your post again- I am not a lawyer. I think you have a out. YOUR Broker must submit the the offer to you as the buyer submitted it. You have the right to refuse if it is not full asking. The broker is saying that they will make up the difference between the asking and offer to get their 6% and will sue you if you dont go for it. Really pretty sleazy on the brokers part. This is different from the buyer making a full price offer and you refusing it. It may be a significant diference your lawyer will tell you. I think you may have a out. Also the broker isnt going to make that much after they make up the difference so you will be able to pay them off to get out of the listing fairly cheaply. Ask them if 5 bills would make this go away? Talk to your lawyer buteither way in my opinion ui think you will get out with minnum pain,
RCCrawler
10-10-2012, 20:28
They do it all the time with short sales. They list a house for a given price, people offer more than asking price and they still turn them down.
Rucker61
10-10-2012, 20:32
I would think that his inclusion of the mineral rights in his offer(when they were specifically excluded in the listing) would invalidate it. Kind of like telling the chevy dealer that you'll pay full sticker price for a Chevette, but you expect a Corvette instead.
+1
my agent just wants to sell the house. she is probably scared of getting in trouble. she probably hasnt had a lot of people as poor as us, be stupid enough to turn down an offer. But, we have to live here.
she allready made money from us. We bought a house she listed, and we went straight through her, so she got all the commission. I dont think she is going to hold us to that.
I am not a lawyer. If its not a full price offer and the agent isnt going to sue there not a problem. What criminal record? You are refusing because its not a full offer price! Immeduiatly increase the asking price by double in case he makes a full price offer. I am not a lawyer NO sweat. Pleasant dreams
My $0.02.
He didn't take your offer -- he made a COUNTER offer if he changed things by putting in mineral rights, and you're refusing it.
I think you can sleep easy.
KevDen2005
10-10-2012, 20:47
My $0.02.
He didn't take your offer -- he made a COUNTER offer if he changed things by putting in mineral rights, and you're refusing it.
I think you can sleep easy.
Plus one...I would even consider to consider an offer if I specifically put something in the contract and this person changed it.
Do they know you carry a gun? Do they know that all your friends carry guns?
Sleep easy man. [Beer]
Others have answered the broker/agent exclusive to sell agreement part... I ll add the following...
The Fair Housing Act, Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968, covers housing discrimination. This law prohibits housing discrimination by real estate firms and homeowners. This means that homeowners may not refuse to lease or sell property based on race, religion, gender, color, or national origin.
Federal law does not cover 'SEXUAL' or 'CRIMINAL BACKGROUND.' I refuse to rent to a registered sex offender or felon. Your local law sometimes have sexual discrimination law, but I have never seen criminal record/felon discrimination.
Buyer wants to sue.. GO AHEAD! Make them pay for your legal cost - I will stand my ground on this issue...
Now, back to your agent, if your agent insists that he/she has done his/her obligation of finding you a buyer per agreed upon - he/she has the right. However, most good agents/brokers will try their best not to piss off their customers. In many cases, they just continue to market your property to new potential buyers.
I hope this helps.
good point
jerrymrc
10-10-2012, 20:56
I know nothing except that I helped a neighbor with her house that she was going to sell. Every time someone placed a bid on it that she did not like she pulled the listing.
This went on for 2 years until she found a party she felt was "worthy" of the house she and here husband bought new.
It's my experience that you don't have to do anything if you make that option expensive enough to the opposing force.
I would seek legal council and that's all you're going to get from your real estate agent also as that's what taught in real estate school.
Be smart: "Seek Legal Council"
Shit. You might even make some money off them suing you ;)
HBARleatherneck
10-10-2012, 21:10
delete
jerrymrc
10-10-2012, 21:19
ok
we are signing the papers to withdraw the listing right now. effective today. we did NOT get a full price offer yet. so, him and his realtor should get nothing from us. correct?
You don't owe them jack. just because they sent you an offer that was NOT your full listing terms does not give them any right to go after you for anything. Sleep tight. [Beer][Flower]
yup, If you would have agreed to the terms and had a signed contract it would be different, but you didn't.
Its all good brother :)
GET A LAWYER!
HOW TITLE VII PROHIBITS EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION BASED ON CRIMINAL RECORD Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits private employers and state and local governments from discriminating in employment based upon race, color, gender, national origin, or religion. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) has ruled that employment policies that exclude individuals based upon their criminal history may violate the Civil Rights Act because such policies disproportionately impact minorities, who are arrested and convicted at a significantly higher rate than their percentage in the population.
funkymonkey1111
10-10-2012, 21:28
To form a contract you need and offer and acceptance, with consideration. He made an offer. You didn't accept it. There is no contract, thus, no sale. You are fine.
Now, if you did accept the offer, and then wanted to back out, that would be another story.
ChunkyMonkey
10-10-2012, 21:30
GET A LAWYER!
HOW TITLE VII PROHIBITS EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION BASED ON CRIMINAL RECORD Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits private employers and state and local governments from discriminating in employment based upon race, color, gender, national origin, or religion. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) has ruled that employment policies that exclude individuals based upon their criminal history may violate the Civil Rights Act because such policies disproportionately impact minorities, who are arrested and convicted at a significantly higher rate than their percentage in the population.
Employment!?
I think some people here assumed that it was YOUR broker who was threatening to sue you, and it sounds like it was HIS broker. Does this make a difference guys?
funkymonkey1111
10-10-2012, 21:36
I think some people here assumed that it was YOUR broker who was threatening to sue you, and it sounds like it was HIS broker. Does this make a difference guys?
Hbar's post says "his realtor says.... they will pursue it...."
ChunkyMonkey
10-10-2012, 21:36
I think some people here assumed that it was YOUR broker who was threatening to sue you, and it sounds like it was HIS broker. Does this make a difference guys?
Selling agent and buyer cannot do crap.. only listing agent can sue him (his own broker). That's what everyone is saying I think.
HBARleatherneck
10-10-2012, 21:47
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The sellers agent can pound sand. It's your home and you did not accept their offer. You have every right to pull the listing and no attorney is necessary.
rockhound
10-10-2012, 22:05
OK, I am a broker, the real estate commission would advise me to tell you to contact your lawyer, and you should
you do not have to sell your home to this guy, however If the buyer's agent brings you a full price offer you would be liable for the costs of any commissions and the agents could and most likely will collect from you.
just not liking the guy is enough reason to refuse his offer, but the agents have done their jobs when they bring you a full price offer. I am glad to hear that your agent is not going to come after her half of the commission, she should not, but could.
i don't think you have heard the last of this, and your agent will probably get a call from the commission after that other agent files a complaint.
once under contract the buyer would have reason to sue you if you back out,
bear in mind that you had better have your ducks in a row. if there is any reason to suspect that you have discriminated against him for any reason other than you don't like him, you may have an uphill battle on your hands,
violation of the fair housing act is a $100,000 fine, first time offense
BE DAMN SURE YOU ARE JUSTIFIED IN REFUSING A FULL PRICE OFFER
OK, I am a broker, the real estate commission would advise me to tell you to contact your lawyer, and you should
you do not have to sell your home to this guy, however If the buyer's agent brings you a full price offer you would be liable for the costs of any commissions and the agents could and most likely will collect from you.
just not liking the guy is enough reason to refuse his offer, but the agents have done their jobs when they bring you a full price offer.
once under contract the buyer would have reason to sue you if you back out,
bear in mind that you had better have your ducks in a row. if there is any reason to suspect that you have discriminated against him for any reason other than you don't like him, you may have an uphill battle on your hands,
violation of the fair housing act is a $100,000 fine, first time offense
BE DAMN SURE YOU ARE JUSTIFIED IN REFUSING A FULL PRICE OFFER
There was no full price offer. The buyer was asking for concessions and offered less than full price. The seller has decided they have to much emotional attachment to their home and no longer wants to sell it.
clublights
10-10-2012, 22:21
Now, which one of you guys want a 4 bed 2 bath 2400+ sqft manufactured that is has everything new, top to bottom on 10 acres. You can shoot rifle in the pasture across the street, pistols and shotguns on the property. You can shoot 1200+ yards at my super secret location 2 miles up the road. all for $20,000 less than $200k
Sounds great.........
don't suppose you will take first born as down payment?
[ROFL1]
OK, I am a broker, the real estate commission would advise me to tell you to contact your lawyer,
you do not have to sell your home to this guy, however If the buyer's agent brings you a full price offer
Can a full price offer be brought, the home is off the market?
Now, which one of you guys want a 4 bed 2 bath 2400+ sqft manufactured that is has everything new, top to bottom on 10 acres. You can shoot rifle in the pasture across the street, pistols and shotguns on the property. You can shoot 1200+ yards at my super secret location 2 miles up the road. all for $20,000 less than $200k
still might have an interested party. working on them but we will see.
colorider
10-10-2012, 22:45
The buyer gave you an offer which is not asking price. The offer also states they want the mineral rights. Both of those do NOT satisfy the terms of your sale as advertised.
Seems pretty simple that you should be able to tell him to piss off and you have decided to no longer sell the house.
GET A LAWYER!
HOW TITLE VII PROHIBITS EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION BASED ON CRIMINAL RECORD Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits private employers and state and local governments from discriminating in employment based upon race, color, gender, national origin, or religion. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) has ruled that employment policies that exclude individuals based upon their criminal history may violate the Civil Rights Act because such policies disproportionately impact minorities, who are arrested and convicted at a significantly higher rate than their percentage in the population.
I don't know where you are getting discrimination bullshit from. If HB specifically signed something or was recorded saying he refuses to sell to the guy due to his background/religion/race, then there is a problem. If not no full price offer was given, no agreement or contract signed
. I hope you have something in the for sale forum. Im going to give you an offer and if you don't take it im gonna sue you for discrimination. Im legally native american. Your f'd
rhineoshott
10-10-2012, 23:15
Haven't read all the previous posts, so I apologize if this is repeat.
I don't think have to sell it to him. There is a bank owned property that I wanted to buy recently, for full asking price. It was outrageously underpriced ( home on .3 acres for 25k). They wouldn't sell it to me because they had 5 offers for more than mine, even though I was going for the full asking price. The listed price is not a legal status from what I can tell.
My .02
BushMasterBoy
10-10-2012, 23:15
If it gets unbearable, file a complaint with the state. DORA handles these kind of complaints. You can also check for any disciplinary actions against a licensed realtor.
http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=DORA-DRE%2FDORALayout&cid=1251614735941&pagename=CBONWrapper#tab4
Im legally native american. Your f'd
Aren't you a ginger?
Great-Kazoo
10-10-2012, 23:30
no my broker is ok with it. I mean, Im sure she is disappointed. Its the other lady, who thinks we are discriminating against her buyer. She told my realtor she would get a full price offer to us tomorrow. Right now, they are over $7000 less. They want $5500 in concessions, and only want to give $500 earnest money. When we asked for $2000. We got no full priced offer, we agreed to nothing, we signed nothing. We withdrew our listing. Our agent said we do not have to pay her (our agent). So, everything should be clear.
Now, which one of you guys want a 4 bed 2 bath 2400+ sqft manufactured that is has everything new, top to bottom on 10 acres. You can shoot rifle in the pasture across the street, pistols and shotguns on the property. You can shoot 1200+ yards at my super secret location 2 miles up the road. all for $20,000 less than $200k
Live next to someone who owns guns and a Motorcycle. You're out of you're $#%^& mind. Then you find out your neighbor has kids.................
Lots of Kids.......................
Quote:
Originally Posted by xring http://www.ar-15.co/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ar-15.co/forums/showthread.php?p=671795#post671795)
GET A LAWYER!
HOW TITLE VII PROHIBITS EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION BASED ON CRIMINAL RECORD Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits private employers and state and local governments from discriminating in employment based upon race, color, gender, national origin, or religion. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) has ruled that employment policies that exclude individuals based upon their criminal history may violate the Civil Rights Act because such policies disproportionately impact minorities, who are arrested and convicted at a significantly higher rate than their percentage in the population.
I don't know where you are getting discrimination bullshit from. If HB specifically signed something or was recorded saying he refuses to sell to the guy due to his background/religion/race, then there is a problem. If not no full price offer was given, no agreement or contract signed
. I hope you have something in the for sale forum. Im going to give you an offer and if you don't take it im gonna sue you for discrimination. Im legally native american. Your f'd
__________________
All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break em for no one.
I thought it might be pertinant information for him, Apparantly criminal record can be a discrimination issue. It doesnt mean I agree.
Feedback (add +26 after the great-spammer-appocolypse)
(http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10094&highlight=sniper7)
http://www.ar-15.co/forums/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.ar-15.co/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=671997)
Aren't you a ginger?
More of a mutt but enough native American to claim it!
Great-Kazoo
10-11-2012, 00:29
More of a mutt but enough native American to claim it!
I'm an Italian Indian. OR AWOPAHO as we're called on the rez.
[Wow2] Talk about completely OT
Aloha_Shooter
10-11-2012, 00:51
I will repeat what others have said: get a lawyer!
but, I'll explain some things as I understood it from my case law course in college:
1. HBar's original listing constitutes a unilateral offer. Had they accepted that offer (by agreeing to full price and set terms) then he MIGHT have to worry about claims of discrimination depending on specific Colorado law, precedent and the judge.
2. The prospective buyer negates #1 above by making a counter-offer (lower price, additional terms, etc.). In this case, HBar doesn't have to give any reason for rejecting the counter offer.
3. Pulling the house off the market should be viewed as a completely separate transaction. I say should because you never know with some of these lawyers and judges but in general, there shouldn't be any grounds for complaint because he chose to pull the house off the market right after he rejected the buyer's counter-offer. The story on this message board unfortunately provides evidence that the two actions are linked but in theory they are separate actions and one doesn't provide grounds for complaint about the other.
GilpinGuy
10-11-2012, 00:55
Holy crap. I was a Realtor for 5 years and read the first 3 pages of the thread, that's enough.
If you got an offer that wasn't "EXACTLY" what you offered for sale, you can simply deny the offer. Done.
And if you wanted to discriminate against a scumbag from buying the property next to you (I would too BTW), then tell your Realtor to remove the listing at that moment to remove any doubt that it's still for sale.
If you get an offer before the Realtor has officially removed it from the MLS, I'm not sure what what would happen. But I would suspect that your "verbal declaration" that you removed from the market would supersede any electronic or newspaper listing.
Not a lawyer here, just been through of these bullshit proceedings.
rockhound
10-11-2012, 06:04
There was no full price offer. The buyer was asking for concessions and offered less than full price. The seller has decided they have to much emotional attachment to their home and no longer wants to sell it.
i understand that the offer was not full price,
my answer was to the effect that he said a full price offer was coming.
he then pulled the home off the market. that changes things, however i am still betting that the other agent file a complaint with DORA about his agent, I am also willing to be that he may deal with guy again when the house goes back on the market.
spqrzilla
10-11-2012, 08:10
Enormous amount of bad advice, starting obviously with the real estate agent.
I hate real estate agents that practice law. Its bad enough how incompetent most of them are at selling/buying houses. I don't sell houses, don't let real estate agents practice law.
There is no liability here. An offer is not a binding contract until it is accepted. An "asking price" is not an offer itself, so an "offer" that meets the price itself is not a contract either.
You can deny him up until the point where he offers your asking price with no concessions. The only recourse you have is to pull it off the market and let it sit for a cooling off period.
spqrzilla
10-11-2012, 08:12
... I'll explain some things as I understood it from my case law course in college:
1. HBar's original listing constitutes a unilateral offer. Had they accepted that offer (by agreeing to full price and set terms) then he MIGHT have to worry about claims of discrimination depending on specific Colorado law, precedent and the judge.
No. A listing is not an offer. There is no such thing as a "unilateral offer". A listing is a solicitation for offers.
Enormous amount of bad advice, starting obviously with the real estate agent.
I hate real estate agents that practice law. Its bad enough how incompetent most of them are at selling/buying houses. I don't sell houses, don't let real estate agents practice law.
There is no liability here. An offer is not a binding contract until it is accepted. An "asking price" is not an offer itself, so an "offer" that meets the price itself is not a contract either.
No, not criminal law, but he could open himself to a civil suit.
HBARleatherneck
10-11-2012, 10:42
delete
ChunkyMonkey
10-11-2012, 10:48
Glad you got your answer... good luck with the new listing!
my lawyer advised me to relist the house with a provision, that I would not sell to this individual or any entity representing him. (in case he formed an llc to buy the property). he said there are no other problems.
he also said that I could put in the contract, that I will do a background check on people before I enter into a contract with them.
nice![Beer]
Aloha_Shooter
10-11-2012, 11:05
No. A listing is not an offer. There is no such thing as a "unilateral offer". A listing is a solicitation for offers.
You're partly right. I was mixing up terms -- it's been a long time since that course and it was a long day. The initial listing itself constitutes an offer that may end up in a unilateral contract -- but only if all terms are accepted. Once someone starts negotiating with a counter-offer, it changes the situation because their positions as offeror and offeree swap; no one is obligated to accept an offer.
Illustration:
1. Seller lists house for sale with price and terms/conditions. Seller is offeror, prospective buyers are offerees.
2. Buyer counters listing with new price and/or terms/conditions (e.g., decorating allowance, help with fees, etc.). Prospective buyer is now offeror, seller is offeree.
3. Seller counters the counter. Seller is once again the offeror and buyer is the offeree.
... and so on.
Whereever you sit in the cycle of negotiation, the offeree is not obligated to accept the current offer. Where it gets sticky is when the offeree accepts the current offer without any changes and the offeror then wants to back out. This is the opening for the offeree to sue for non-performance.
A good attorney can usually get you out of the situation (usually by making it just not worth pursuing) but there have been cases in the past where a listing was accepted with full price and terms but the offeror (seller) reneged "arbitrariliy" and the prospective buyer pursued action to compel the sale. It's pretty rare but has happened IIRC.
As others said before me and I reiterated before my first post, talk to a lawyer!
HBARleatherneck
10-11-2012, 11:10
delete
funkymonkey1111
10-11-2012, 11:11
You're partly right. I was mixing up terms -- it's been a long time since that course and it was a long day. The initial listing itself constitutes an offer that may end up in a unilateral contract -- but only if all terms are accepted. Once someone starts negotiating with a counter-offer, it changes the situation because their positions as offeror and offeree swap; no one is obligated to accept an offer.
Illustration:
1. Seller lists house for sale with price and terms/conditions. Seller is offeror, prospective buyers are offerees.
2. Buyer counters listing with new price and/or terms/conditions (e.g., decorating allowance, help with fees, etc.). Prospective buyer is now offeror, seller is offeree.
3. Seller counters the counter. Seller is once again the offeror and buyer is the offeree.
... and so on.
Whereever you sit in the cycle of negotiation, the offeree is not obligated to accept the current offer. Where it gets sticky is when the offeree accepts the current offer without any changes and the offeror then wants to back out. This is the opening for the offeree to sue for non-performance.
A good attorney can usually get you out of the situation (usually by making it just not worth pursuing) but there have been cases in the past where a listing was accepted with full price and terms but the offeror (seller) reneged "arbitrariliy" and the prospective buyer pursued action to compel the sale. It's pretty rare but has happened IIRC.
As others said before me and I reiterated before my first post, talk to a lawyer!
spqrzilla is a lawyer. you're not. he's right. you're not.
we never countered, we never considered, we never accepted. period.
and his realtor is busting my realtors chops right now. I told my realtor if it continues, I will file a Dora Complaint and If I continue to be harassed by this realtor and her client, I will file a restraining order against both of them.
They don't have a leg to stand on.. there was never a contract just an offer and you didn't accept it..
Sounds like the other realtor is attempting to bully you into selling your house.. I'd contact everyone i could and file a complaint.. and if the harassment continues.. contact the authorities.
SouthPaw
10-11-2012, 11:35
My understanding is your house, your sale, your rules. Biggest question is did you actually "accept" his offer and sign papers for it? Your
If it was verbal I see no harm in saying "We are withdrawing our house until furhter notice." Also by him trying to squeak in mineral rights was not in the sale that was clearly posted as you said. I see many "reasons" of not accepting his offer that would not qualify for discrimnation.
Zundfolge
10-11-2012, 11:37
my lawyer advised me to relist the house with a provision, that I would not sell to this individual or any entity representing him. (in case he formed an llc to buy the property). he said there are no other problems.
he also said that I could put in the contract, that I will do a background check on people before I enter into a contract with them.
If you're allowed to include a provision excluding specific people from buying your house that says to me that even if they'd have made a full price offer you could still refuse to sell to them and they wouldn't have had any legal claim of discrimination.
we never countered, we never considered, we never accepted. period.
and his realtor is busting my realtors chops right now. I told my realtor if it continues, I will file a Dora Complaint and If I continue to be harassed by this realtor and her client, I will file a restraining order against both of them.
I would tell him and his realtor the same thing, that you contacted an attorney, the house if off the market and they are no longer allowed to conduct business or offers to you from now on. (as long as they continue to push the issue).
In law there is "offer" and "acceptance".
You offered to sell the house for a price with certain conditions (mineral rights, etc)
He "countered offered" by coming back to you with a change in the conditions.
If you did not accept his counter offer, no deal. Colo. law requires offers and acceptance in writing for real estate.
You may not discriminate for any reason prohibited in law, race, religion, national origin, sex. You may discriminate for other reasons (smokes, doesn't like football, background).
You are perfectly within your rights to refuse to sell to that person.
Your realtor needs to buffer you from the other party and his realtor. That is your realtor's job.
Byte Stryke
10-11-2012, 14:21
get a lawyer, we can sit here and speculate all day.
I have the bad feeling you are being trolled by a shyster lawyer
ChadAmberg
10-11-2012, 14:44
The buyer gave you an offer which is not asking price. The offer also states they want the mineral rights. Both of those do NOT satisfy the terms of your sale as advertised.
Seems pretty simple that you should be able to tell him to piss off and you have decided to no longer sell the house.
Exactly.. I'd say mineral rights were 1 million on that property, wouldn't you?
Great-Kazoo
10-11-2012, 15:09
get a lawyer, we can sit here and speculate all day.
I have the bad feeling you are being trolled by a shyster lawyer
I already mentioned this. The "buyers" agent has their nose in mineral rights, more than likely already ran the numbers and is using the "buyer" to get their Extra slice of pie.
Did you find his record simply by entering his name in Google, or did you pay to do a background check?
Did his record involve any charges of fraud or theft?
spqrzilla
10-11-2012, 16:36
In law there is "offer" and "acceptance".
You offered to sell the house for a price with certain conditions (mineral rights, etc)
He "countered offered" by coming back to you with a change in the conditions.
If you did not accept his counter offer, no deal. Colo. law requires offers and acceptance in writing for real estate.
You may not discriminate for any reason prohibited in law, race, religion, national origin, sex. You may discriminate for other reasons (smokes, doesn't like football, background).
You are perfectly within your rights to refuse to sell to that person.
Your realtor needs to buffer you from the other party and his realtor. That is your realtor's job.
Your error is in considering a real estate listing as an "offer". It is not. By definition it does not provide enough terms to be a definite and certain offer under contract law. It is merely a solicitation for offers. The buyer's offer is the first offer and it was not accepted. End of analysis.
SideShow Bob
10-11-2012, 17:37
Can any of the attorneys here give a definate yes or no as to whether the fair housing act covers persons with criminal histories ?
I could not find anything on the FHA site that specifically covered this.
Can any of the attorneys here give a definate yes or no as to whether the fair housing act covers persons with criminal histories ?
It does not. Public housing and many property management companies consider a felony conviction a disqualifier, and verified drug activity is grounds for immediate eviction.
HBARleatherneck
10-11-2012, 19:59
delete
hollohas
10-11-2012, 21:15
Years ago I put a full price offer on a house. They never responded. The selling realtor was sitting on our offer hoping to get one for more. For a week. I contacted the real estate commission to file a complaint and they said "Tough. They don't have to accept your offer if they don't want to."
I didn't get the house and was pissed. Now I can understand why the seller would do that.
Based on what the commission told me, I think you are fine.
rockhound
10-12-2012, 06:55
full price with contingencies of any kind is not a full price offer
bigun1962
10-12-2012, 08:15
I would tell the realitor to pack sand. You may end up in small claims. You are in a good spot. Glad you are not in Boulder/Denver.
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