View Full Version : Self Defense?
brokenscout
10-16-2012, 08:59
If someone punches someone first and the other person kicks their ass is it still self defense?Where is the line drawn?Asking for a friend[Beer]
ruthabagah
10-16-2012, 09:11
If someone punches someone first and the other person kicks their ass is it still self defense?Where is the line drawn?Asking for a friend[Beer]
Talking about experiences: If you kick their ass, but do not escalate with any kind of "Weapons" or proxy (can include a stick, tire iron, BBbats, beer bottle, etc...), then, yes, it is legitimate defense.
I had some good witnesses too, and the cops just let me go, and charged the other guy with assault...
brokenscout
10-16-2012, 09:19
Also if someone assaults you,with no weapons, but your disabled.Can you shoot them?
One is allowed to use whatever force is necessary to end the threat of bodily injury. Beyond that, he's treading on very thin ice...
Also if someone assaults you,with no weapons, but your disabled.Can you shoot them?
A credible threat of "serious bodily injury or death" can be met with lethal force. If the attacker has a significant physical advantage, that could be construed as meeting that standard. For instance, a 240 pound , 6 ft 4 man attacks a 100 pound, 5 ft tall woman, or an able bodied man attacks a person that needs a walker. Any significant disparity MAY justify the use of lethal force, but it might end up being decided by a jury.
ChunkyMonkey
10-16-2012, 09:29
'Officer, I fear for my life, I want my lawyer now.'
DD977GM2
10-16-2012, 09:35
Also if someone assaults you,with no weapons, but your disabled. Can you shoot them?
This is subjective to some people.
I never unholster unless I feel my life is threatened and the person is showing
signs or actions he wants to do more than kick my ass.
If your going to get an ass beating, even as a disabled person, it isnt IMHO grounds
for unholstering and killing a person. If they are in a wheelchair, this would make things a bit diffrent. YMMV
DD977GM2
10-16-2012, 09:36
Talking about experiences: If you kick their ass, but do not escalate with any kind of "Weapons" or proxy (can include a stick, tire iron, BBbats, beer bottle, etc...), then, yes, it is legitimate defense.
I had some good witnesses too, and the cops just let me go, and charged the other guy with assault...
This key. If its a fist fight, you kick thier ass with your fists and feet, then you
did not escalate and should not be charged with anything or if you do, good chance the charges will be dropped in a court of law.
DD977GM2
10-16-2012, 09:37
'Officer, I fear for my life, I want my lawyer now.'
QFT [M2]
This key. If its a fist fight, you kick thier ass with your fists and feet, then you
did not escalate and should not be charged with anything or if you do, good chance the charges will be dropped in a court of law.
Well here's the real game changer- what if someone is aggravated, they want to kick your ass, and you are carrying? I would think the fear would be that if they are a better fighter than you, and they discover you have a firearm on your person- what next? What if they get into a position to take it from you and use it? That would be my fear... That's reason #1, when carrying, that I try to avoid or peacefully defuse a potential violent situation at all costs.
BlasterBob
10-16-2012, 10:07
If the "victim" is beyond a certain age, isn't he then considered an "at risk individual"? What IS that age??
This key. If its a fist fight, you kick thier ass with your fists and feet, then you
did not escalate and should not be charged with anything or if you do, good chance the charges will be dropped in a court of law.
A "shod foot" (shoes, boots) has been considered a "weapon" in many courts, and if you kick someone while they are down, resulting in substantial injury requiring hospitalization (fractures, broken teeth, etc), then you will probably get prosecuted and convicted if: the other guy was unarmed, you do not have significant injuries, and the attack did not occur in your home, place of business, or on your property. If you kick him while he is down and he walks away with nothing more than bruises, then you are correct that there is a good chances the charges may be dropped if he started it and there are witnesses or CCTV video of that.
BlasterBob
10-16-2012, 10:48
If the "victim" is beyond a certain age, isn't he then considered an "at risk individual"? What IS that age??
At-risk adult = an adult 60+ years of age with permanent disability (unable to walk, see, hear, speak) As contained in Colo 18-6.5-103 (3) (A)
DD977GM2
10-16-2012, 11:08
Well here's the real game changer- what if someone is aggravated, they want to kick your ass, and you are carrying? I would think the fear would be that if they are a better fighter than you, and they discover you have a firearm on your person- what next? What if they get into a position to take it from you and use it? That would be my fear... That's reason #1, when carrying, that I try to avoid or peacefully defuse a potential violent situation at all costs.
If your carrying, flee. You 99.9999999% of the time have that option.
DD977GM2
10-16-2012, 11:12
A "shod foot" (shoes, boots) has been considered a "weapon" in many courts, and if you kick someone while they are down, resulting in substantial injury requiring hospitalization (fractures, broken teeth, etc), then you will probably get prosecuted and convicted if: the other guy was unarmed, you do not have significant injuries, and the attack did not occur in your home, place of business, or on your property. If you kick him while he is down and he walks away with nothing more than bruises, then you are correct that there is a good chances the charges may be dropped if he started it and there are witnesses or CCTV video of that.
If you kicked their ass and they are done attacking you, why would you kick them when they are down?
The way I read the OP was if he kicked their ass and ceased hostilities, would he be arrested and charged.... well if you kicked their ass and didnt take a trashcan and huck it at them or kick them when they are down or curb them, you would be fine.
The what ifs can go on all day. When I have kicked someone's ass, I didnt stick around and wait for them to get up and come at me with vengeance or with a weapon.
When I have had my ass kicked, I didnt go after them for more of the abuse, I left. agian though YMMV.
Great-Kazoo
10-16-2012, 11:24
If someone punches someone first and the other person kicks their ass is it still self defense?Where is the line drawn?Asking for a friend[Beer]
1st rule
ATTORNEY, NOT the internet
2nd
Force Continuum
If the attacker stops, you stop. If the attacker is down and you continue there is the possibility you may be charged with assault
brokenscout
10-16-2012, 13:54
If the "victim" is beyond a certain age, isn't he then considered an "at risk individual"? What IS that age??
You dont even have to be 60.....depending on your disabilities.......[Beer]
I say if you kick the guy in the wheel chairs ass and he keeps coming then you got to do what you got to do. You be surprised how fast they can cover ground in one of those things. Plus no foot steps...just roll right up on ya quiet like.
OneGuy67
10-16-2012, 16:43
If the "victim" is beyond a certain age, isn't he then considered an "at risk individual"? What IS that age??
And that is dependent upon the age of the other party as well. Example: a 60 year old and a 65 year old get into it, neither is going to be charged with the enhancement of the 'at risk'.
Dunecrazzy
10-16-2012, 16:45
Either way it's a losing battle. Cost me 15000.00 for a fight that I didn't start. Two witness said I started it. After court cost lawer cost and medical bills time off work not to mention the sleepless nights wondering what I would be charged with. I was found not guilty but had to pay his medical. Not worth it! Walk away and tell him to roll away.
You don't want it to turn into a felony
brokenscout
10-16-2012, 16:48
Either way it's a losing battle. Cost me 15000.00 for a fight that I didn't start. Two witness said I started it. After court cost lawer cost and medical bills time off work not to mention the sleepless nights wondering what I would be charged with. I was found not guilty but had to pay his medical. Not worth it! Walk away and tell him to roll away.
You don't want it to turn into a felony
But sometimes you can't walk away.........
Dunecrazzy
10-16-2012, 17:17
But sometimes you can't walk away.........
I agree . I'm sure there are many that wish they did walk away.
each situation is different, best to defuse the situation, get away from the situation, and if unable, end the situation with the least amount of force necessary to protect you, your family, or the person as risk.
Wow, there is a lot of stuff to try to remember in a moments notice when your life is on the line in this thread.
Bottom line: Dude or dudes come at me with the intent to do me harm I will draw and warn once before killing if I'm unable to remove myself from the situation safely. The law supports me in my defense. This idea that I need to fist fight them first is bullshit. The sooner idiot macho tards realize picking a fight can get you killed the sooner people like me don't have to worry about having to kill someone to enjoy life w/o fear of bodily harm.
brokenscout
10-21-2012, 13:47
My friend told me.Its best to walk away or take an ass kicking...Cost less..[Beer]
onebadfx4
10-21-2012, 14:07
Did your "friend" get jumped by that midget biker gang again?[ROFL1]
brokenscout
10-21-2012, 15:04
Did your "friend" get jumped by that midget biker gang again?[ROFL1]
Diff midget gang:)[Coffee]
I would rather get asskicked (punching and kicking) and have other guy face criminal+civil action than I kick someone's ass and face both action.
If my family is in danger, it is a different story.
I would rather get asskicked (punching and kicking) and have other guy face criminal+civil action than I kick someone's ass and face both action.
If my family is in danger, it is a different story.
What you seem to forget is that a fight could also end in someone losing their life. What if you start throwing blows and someone pulls a knife or another form of weapon? What happens if he overpowers you and takes your firearm and then kills you and anyone else who dares challenge him? What if you don't have your firearm and he pops you once and you fall and hit the back of your head and die or the same thing in reverse? Don't think this is possible? My wife watched a kid that they used to go out partying with in Lincoln die in this exact fashion. They left a bar at closing and some dude started shit with him. He wasn't a consenting party to a fight so he tried removing himself from the situation and instead the dude chased him down, punched him one time in the face. He fell backwards and struck the back of his head on the sidewalk and never woke up.
This isn't boxing. There are no rules, no referee to make sure things are fair and no agreement to follow specific rules.
Whether you believe it or not every fight is a fight for your life. If you're willing to gamble your life on it then good for you. I'm not and criminal law supports my decision to protect myself with up to and including deadly force. There is nothing cowardly about refusing to be a victim to some meat head or thug who thinks he has something to prove just like there's nothing manly about proving you can fight. It's stupid.
there's nothing manly about proving you can fight. It's stupid.
If only more people realized that...
brokenscout
10-22-2012, 18:58
What you seem to forget is that a fight could also end in someone losing their life. What if you start throwing blows and someone pulls a knife or another form of weapon? What happens if he overpowers you and takes your firearm and then kills you and anyone else who dares challenge him? What if you don't have your firearm and he pops you once and you fall and hit the back of your head and die or the same thing in reverse? Don't think this is possible? My wife watched a kid that they used to go out partying with in Lincoln die in this exact fashion. They left a bar at closing and some dude started shit with him. He wasn't a consenting party to a fight so he tried removing himself from the situation and instead the dude chased him down, punched him one time in the face. He fell backwards and struck the back of his head on the sidewalk and never woke up.
This isn't boxing. There are no rules, no referee to make sure things are fair and no agreement to follow specific rules.
Whether you believe it or not every fight is a fight for your life. If you're willing to gamble your life on it then good for you. I'm not and criminal law supports my decision to protect myself with up to and including deadly force. There is nothing cowardly about refusing to be a victim to some meat head or thug who thinks he has something to prove just like there's nothing manly about proving you can fight. It's stupid.
Uhh. What I meant in asskicking as few punch or kick, not a fight.
Ii was saying is maybe few kicks and punch doesn't need to be esclated into a full figjt thatvit is not worth all the trouble.
What you seem to forget is that a fight could also end in someone losing their life. What if you start throwing blows and someone pulls a knife or another form of weapon? What happens if he overpowers you and takes your firearm and then kills you and anyone else who dares challenge him? What if you don't have your firearm and he pops you once and you fall and hit the back of your head and die or the same thing in reverse? Don't think this is possible? My wife watched a kid that they used to go out partying with in Lincoln die in this exact fashion. They left a bar at closing and some dude started shit with him. He wasn't a consenting party to a fight so he tried removing himself from the situation and instead the dude chased him down, punched him one time in the face. He fell backwards and struck the back of his head on the sidewalk and never woke up.
This isn't boxing. There are no rules, no referee to make sure things are fair and no agreement to follow specific rules.
Whether you believe it or not every fight is a fight for your life. If you're willing to gamble your life on it then good for you. I'm not and criminal law supports my decision to protect myself with up to and including deadly force. There is nothing cowardly about refusing to be a victim to some meat head or thug who thinks he has something to prove just like there's nothing manly about proving you can fight. It's stupid.
I would rather get asskicked (punching and kicking) and have other guy face criminal+civil action than I kick someone's ass and face both action.
If my family is in danger, it is a different story.
Uhh. What I meant in asskicking as few punch or kick, not a fight.
Ii was saying is maybe few kicks and punch doesn't need to be esclated into a full figjt thatvit is not worth all the trouble.
Is this a joke? Do you really think YOU have control over that in a fight? Isn't getting/giving a few kicks or punches the same thing as a fight? I'm lost at how you seem to think there is different degrees of fighting and that you can administer punches or kicks to someone and then choose to deescalate the situation whenever YOU feel it's time. That shit doesn't fly in the real world son. Again, if this was an organized fight with a referee and rules maybe you could ask that the rules include a safe word or something but it doesn't work that way in the real world.
Watch out for people in wheelcahirs. They will whip your ass with a beater stick and then go out to Chillies with their Mother#@$%ing boyz afterwords.
I agree with Jer. He makes some good points here.
I dont now why you Get all excited over this hypothetical situation , but u can manage your your way if this happens, and i will deal it my way. Very simple.
Therevare trillions of threat probablilty, I may or may not do same as you or other.
Is this a joke? Do you really think YOU have control over that in a fight? Isn't getting/giving a few kicks or punches the same thing as a fight? I'm lost at how you seem to think there is different degrees of fighting and that you can administer punches or kicks to someone3 and then choose to deescalate the situation whenever YOU feel it's time. That shit doesn't fly in the real world son. Again, if this was an organized fight with a referee and rules maybe you could ask that the rules include a safe word or something but it doesn't work that way in the real world.
I agree with Jer. He makes some good points here.
As always. [Tooth]
I might just have to put that quote in my sig. This way I can feature the dumbest of the dumb of this forum as well as the smartest. [Beer] [LOL]
I dont now why you Get all excited over this hypothetical situation , but u can manage your your way if this happens, and i will deal it my way. Very simple.
Therevare trillions of threat probablilty, I may or may not do same as you or other.
Are you drinking? Your posts become more and more incomprehensible as time passes.
Are you drinking? Your posts become more and more incomprehensible as time passes.
Nope, but i am inside the car listening to polo sci analysts abiut debate plus on my 3" phone to reply to threads. Plus on cnn to see the poll result. LOL
Nope, but i am inside the car listening to polo sci analysts abiut debate plus on my 3" phone to reply to threads. Plus on cnn to see the poll result. LOL
It takes an extra 2 seconds to spell check and proof read your two sentences homeboy. Is English your first language?
It takes an extra 2 seconds to spell check and proof read your two sentences homeboy. Is English your first language?
I am on a small little phone. It automatically spells checks. Sometimes with different words.b
I am on a small little phone. It automatically spells checks. Sometimes with different words.b
That doesn't matter! You can choose to fix shit before posting you know? It's bad enough that your stance in this conversation makes zero sense and then your inability to utilize the English language makes it even worse, if that's even possible.
That doesn't matter! You can choose to fix shit before posting you now? It's bad enough that your stance in this conversation makes zero sense and then your inability to utilize the English language makes it even worse, if that's even possible.
Okay
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