View Full Version : Met a business owner in manufacturing yesterday
Flying home yesterday, I met the son of the owner of a private company based just north of Detroit. They make machinery that feeds rolls of steel to stamping machines and other various machines used to make things out of metal. 100 employees
biggest buyers are john deere, cat, all the auto manufactures, yes even the "foreign" ones that have plants right here in the US.
We got to talking about the debate, politics etc, so I asked him his opinion on what is going on, how they plan to survive, and what it will take.
His biggest thing was the cost of materials is going up. importation of metal, and over regulation on the mining of materials is driving up the cost. When that happens, they get charged more, so they have to either charge more for their products, shrink by laying off workers (which detroit is already decimated), or his dad gets to take the cost in the shorts. He said his dad would rather sell off the business and shut it down and retire with a good life instead of continuing the fight against over regulation and expecting to give more in taxes so the lazy people can continue living off his hard work when they do nothing.
His biggest thing was inflation at extreme levels causing a second collapse of the markets, a further recession/depression.
Just thought it was interesting to hear an actual good sized business owner basically confirming my thoughts/opinions that if they are going to get over taxed and over regulated, you are going to see even more businesses shut down, the owners cut their losses and let the rest fend for themselves.
Very interesting indeed. Confirms what we've been suspecting all along. I can't believe how people/voters don't see this.
SuperiorDG
10-18-2012, 15:21
Sounds a lot like Atlas Shrugged. [Train]
HoneyBadger
10-18-2012, 15:27
Sounds a lot like Atlas Shrugged. [Train]
yup.
JohnTRourke
10-18-2012, 15:27
Sounds a lot like Atlas Shrugged. [Train]
Obama did read Atlas Shrugged
He's using it as a how-to manual. [Mad]
Flying home yesterday, I met the son of the owner of a private company based just north of Detroit. They make machinery that feeds rolls of steel to stamping machines and other various machines used to make things out of metal. 100 employees
biggest buyers are john deere, cat, all the auto manufactures, yes even the "foreign" ones that have plants right here in the US.
We got to talking about the debate, politics etc, so I asked him his opinion on what is going on, how they plan to survive, and what it will take.
His biggest thing was the cost of materials is going up. importation of metal, and over regulation on the mining of materials is driving up the cost. When that happens, they get charged more, so they have to either charge more for their products, shrink by laying off workers (which detroit is already decimated), or his dad gets to take the cost in the shorts. He said his dad would rather sell off the business and shut it down and retire with a good life instead of continuing the fight against over regulation and expecting to give more in taxes so the lazy people can continue living off his hard work when they do nothing.
His biggest thing was inflation at extreme levels causing a second collapse of the markets, a further recession/depression.
Just thought it was interesting to hear an actual good sized business owner basically confirming my thoughts/opinions that if they are going to get over taxed and over regulated, you are going to see even more businesses shut down, the owners cut their losses and let the rest fend for themselves.
Confirmation is nice.
You didn't happen to find out if it was a union shop did you?
Confirmation is nice.
You didn't happen to find out if it was a union shop did you?
Non union
Rucker61
10-18-2012, 17:24
I have no idea what qualifies as "over-regulated", but steel prices seem to be declining
http://www.steelonthenet.com/price_info.html
Non union
That is probably one of the reasons they are still in business, the merit system rather than threats, harassment, and mediocrity.
ChunkyMonkey
10-18-2012, 18:16
I have no idea what qualifies as "over-regulated", but steel prices seem to be declining
http://www.steelonthenet.com/price_info.html
Over regulated as in EPA, OSHA etc on condition, material processing, waste etc. For a quick eye opening, talk to your local 'chrome plating' guys, or stainless steel fabricators.
I know a major catalytic converter manufacturer that was shut down for a month because one day OSHA decided that the whole ventilation system is not sufficient after passing them just few weeks before hence.
Look at what EPA is doing at the moment. All promised and brought to you by....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9wzNUZVv0A0#t=62s
Was his last name Rearden?
Tinelement
10-18-2012, 19:19
I can reply a little bit on this on material costs.
I'm only an owner with 1 employee. I do notice the steel costs move around. I only try to buy once a yr and order everything I think I need. Keeps it down. But as mentioned, I only order once, twice a yr and only spend about $2k.
You know really kills me!? Abrasives! Grinding disks, sand paper, etc. I have them broke down into individual sheets, but we still have to keep track of them. By far my biggest expense. Bet it's all of $300 a month.
And I'm a super small shop!! Can't imagine having 100 employees!
Was his last name Rearden?
sure was...
no, the company was something like COE
guys name was Hunter, can't forget a name like that!
Uberjager
10-19-2012, 01:53
Over regulated as in EPA, OSHA etc on condition, material processing, waste etc. For a quick eye opening, talk to your local 'chrome plating' guys, or stainless steel fabricators.
I know a major catalytic converter manufacturer that was shut down for a month because one day OSHA decided that the whole ventilation system is not sufficient after passing them just few weeks before hence.
Look at what EPA is doing at the moment. All promised and brought to you by....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9wzNUZVv0A0#t=62s
Yeah, the EPA and OSHA may go overboard every once in a while, but I'd argue that overall the rules and regs are there for just reasons.
JohnTRourke
10-19-2012, 05:56
Yeah, the EPA and OSHA may go overboard every once in a while, but I'd argue that overall the rules and regs are there for just reasons.
bahahahahahahahahahahahaha
[LOL][LOL][LOL]
You went to government school didn't you????????
bahahahahahahahahahahahaha
[LOL][LOL][LOL]
You went to government school didn't you????????
That is funny isn't it.[Beer]
The tasks assigned to OSHA and the EPA should be severely curtailed and reassigned at the state level. Federal agencies disallow freedom of choice for people and businesses. Each state should be making their own decisions, that way if an individual or business does not like the rules in the state they are in you can move to a state with different regulations, freedom of choice and freedom of movement.
That is funny isn't it.[Beer]
The tasks assigned to OSHA and the EPA should be severely curtailed and reassigned at the state level. Federal agencies disallow freedom of choice for people and businesses. Each state should be making their own decisions, that way if an individual or business does not like the rules in the state they are in you can move to a state with different regulations, freedom of choice and freedom of movement.
Exactly. Then we would see states struggle and maybe they would change their ways because they need the tax revenue. At the fed level the businesses just bail to another country and the fed proposes more income taxes!
So did Obama start this EPA within the last 4 years? Rhetorical question and I'm not sticking up for Obama, just trying to shed some light on how the problem is bigger than who we elect for president every 4yrs.
OSHA CAN be at the state level. California, New Mexico and several others have their own state run OSHA. Just takes the state grabbing the reins instead of letting the Feds run it. I've worked on cases for both state and Fed OSHA, and their are pros and cons to each.
Small business IS being crushed, and I own two of them. The amount of time and expense it takes to "stay legal" is amazing, and rising.
So did Obama start this EPA within the last 4 years? Rhetorical question and I'm not sticking up for Obama, just trying to shed some light on how the problem is bigger than who we elect for president every 4yrs.
Oh you're right, the problems caused by the federal government are enormous and they go back to the early 1900s, probably before that. [Beer]
What we need to do is convince 45% of the voting public that the federal government is the problem and not the solution. Then we will see some change. I try everyday but people are conditioned to having the government do everything and they refuse to listen to reason, deliberate ignorance in order to avoid concerning themselves with the nations business.
Oh! Something shiny. [Tooth]
So did Obama start this EPA within the last 4 years? Rhetorical question and I'm not sticking up for Obama, just trying to shed some light on how the problem is bigger than who we elect for president every 4yrs.
No he didn't start the EPA or come up with the notion of regulation, but his policies have put on further regulations, devalued the dollar to make it buying power much worse, increased entitlement programs which only take away from the private sector even more.
Just as the problems didn't become instantaneous, the solution is not going to be either.
JohnTRourke
10-19-2012, 19:21
So did Obama start this EPA within the last 4 years? Rhetorical question and I'm not sticking up for Obama, just trying to shed some light on how the problem is bigger than who we elect for president every 4yrs.
exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the bureaucrats govern now.
The people trying to rebuild after the Waldo Canyon fire are suffering the typical problems that slow down and cause friction in today's business.
Uncertain regulations and policy. Uncertain future of the value on completed homes.
The HOA and City have not been quick to change or address problems.
The risk reward concept is not working.
No he didn't start the EPA or come up with the notion of regulation, but his policies have put on further regulations, devalued the dollar to make it buying power much worse, increased entitlement programs which only take away from the private sector even more.
Just as the problems didn't become instantaneous, the solution is not going to be either.
Of Romney does win he won't do a damn thing about entitlements. He talks a tough game about it but when his advisers get in his ear about how many voters that 47% is he will change his tune quickly. Face it, this path we're headed down is a one-way path and neither the D's or the R's give half a shit about getting off of the trail. The path to their own personal prosperity is SO much easier than actually trying to serve the people. When you get right down to it look at who the major contributors to the candidate's campaign fund are and you will see who will be running the country for the next 4yrs. It's that simple.
The people trying to rebuild after the Waldo Canyon fire are suffering the typical problems that slow down and cause friction in today's business.
Uncertain regulations and policy. Uncertain future of the value on completed homes.
The HOA and City have not been quick to change or address problems.
The risk reward concept is not working.
I'm sorry but I don't draw a correlation between this and this conversation.
Of Romney does win he won't do a damn thing about entitlements. He talks a tough game about it but when his advisers get in his ear about how many voters that 47% is he will change his tune quickly. Face it, this path we're headed down is a one-way path and neither the D's or the R's give half a shit about getting off of the trail. The path to their own personal prosperity is SO much easier than actually trying to serve the people. When you get right down to it look at who the major contributors to the candidate's campaign fund are and you will see who will be running the country for the next 4yrs. It's that simple.
I asked a question in a different thread about a plan to pay down the 16 trillion in debt we've accrued.
I asked another question in the same thread about paying for the federal governments financial promise to social security, medicare, and medicaid.
There is a "sort of" plan for the first, the second one is completely unfunded and there is no source for that kind of money. The baby boomers are entering that period of their lives when their medical costs really start to climb.
ChunkyMonkey
10-19-2012, 22:11
I asked a question in a different thread about a plan to pay down the 16 trillion in debt we've accrued.
I asked another question in the same thread about paying for the federal governments financial promise to social security, medicare, and medicaid.
There is a "sort of" plan for the first, the second one is completely unfunded and there is no source for that kind of money. The baby boomers are entering that period of their lives when their medical costs really start to climb.
... and our obligation is larger in proportion compare to post WWI Germany.
http://imageplay.net/img/tya22288941/GermanyHyperChart.jpg
Yes it is ENORMOUS.
We think Greece is a mess with all their riots and crap, theirs is a picnic compared to "austerity" here.
I asked a question in a different thread about a plan to pay down the 16 trillion in debt we've accrued.
I asked another question in the same thread about paying for the federal governments financial promise to social security, medicare, and medicaid.
There is a "sort of" plan for the first, the second one is completely unfunded and there is no source for that kind of money. The baby boomers are entering that period of their lives when their medical costs really start to climb.
If you're talking about Paul 'the economic genius with a bachelor's degree in political science and economics' Ryan's plan it's smoke and mirrors and even given that much leeway it still makes NO fiscal sense. This is their best plan? There's a reason they don't ever want to get into specifics on it when pressed on the topic. We're fucked.
Great-Kazoo
10-19-2012, 22:26
I have no idea what qualifies as "over-regulated", but steel prices seem to be declining
http://www.steelonthenet.com/price_info.html
While it may appear that way on paper, it's a different story at the pump. I have seen little if any decline in metal prices when buying. Of course i am a 1 man buyer not a med size business where a $0.04 drop adds up quickly.
If you're talking about Paul 'the economic genius with a bachelor's degree in political science and economics' Ryan's plan it's smoke and mirrors and even given that much leeway it still makes NO fiscal sense. This is their best plan? There's a reason they don't ever want to get into specifics on it when pressed on the topic. We're fucked.
I think the first thing that has to happen is for business to become comfortable doing business. Right now business is running scared, they are scared about unforseen costs in obamacare, over-regulation, onerous taxation, and being punished for success. When businesses are scared they stop hiring and they start cutting costs and employees.
Another reason is when we start cutting government spending those people need jobs in the private sector and the private sector has to be ready to hire them. That will only happen if business is comfortable.
When I'm talking about business here I'm talking about all business, but mostly small businesses which IIRC employ 75% of the workers in this country.
I think the first thing that has to happen is for business to become comfortable doing business. Right now business is running scared, they are scared about unforseen costs in obamacare, over-regulation, onerous taxation, and being punished for success. When businesses are scared they stop hiring and they start cutting costs and employees.
Another reason is when we start cutting government spending those people need jobs in the private sector and the private sector has to be ready to hire them. That will only happen if business is comfortable.
I think the current state of the economy and it's downward trend raises a lot more of a question.
I think the current state of the economy and it's downward trend raises a lot more of a question.
Private enterprise has the best chance to fix the economy. The damn government is only going to make it worse.
Private enterprise has the best chance to fix the economy. The damn government is only going to make it worse.
I agree. The government can't fix shit.
Of Romney does win he won't do a damn thing about entitlements. He talks a tough game about it but when his advisers get in his ear about how many voters that 47% is he will change his tune quickly. Face it, this path we're headed down is a one-way path and neither the D's or the R's give half a shit about getting off of the trail. The path to their own personal prosperity is SO much easier than actually trying to serve the people. When you get right down to it look at who the major contributors to the candidate's campaign fund are and you will see who will be running the country for the next 4yrs. It's that simple.
He may or may not. But I know there is a better chance of him doing something than Obama.
The margins are definitely out there...i just ran into 4 of them tonight, but that is another thread...fucking mind boggling in my mind, but in their world it all makes sense to get obama in.
There are times I think the D's and R's work together, laugh about it all in luxury suites, air force one, dinners after fundraisers/debates/elections etc. a lot like a south park episode.
The problem is, as a collective whole, we voted ourselves into this. The best way is to start at a small/local level, as a collective whole and take back the system. Voting for Romney will hopefully reverse some of the socialist programs/issues that Obama has put into motion. Nothing is for certain, but i know Romney is a better that to choose than Obama and those are the only 2 viable candidates out there.
Skullworks
10-20-2012, 04:28
Quote:
Originally Posted by roberth http://www.ar-15.co/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ar-15.co/forums/showthread.php?p=688783#post688783)
I think the first thing that has to happen is for business to become comfortable doing business. Right now business is running scared, they are scared about unforseen costs in obamacare, over-regulation, onerous taxation, and being punished for success. When businesses are scared they stop hiring and they start cutting costs and employees.
Another reason is when we start cutting government spending those people need jobs in the private sector and the private sector has to be ready to hire them. That will only happen if business is comfortable.
I think the current state of the economy and it's downward trend raises a lot more of a question.
Its both.
In 2008 soon after Obummer was elected the company I was working for decided to move up there plans to move the manufacturing part of the company to Mexico and I got RIF'd in Dec 2008, Fear of what was coming with a anti-business democrat about to take over the Whitehouse.
Now its worse - Business knows the timeline for Obummer care - People will be laid off to reduce the workforce of benefit entitled employees. Many now are being force onto part time schedules so the company is not required to offer bennies.
This has happened to me now, and I know many of Apple Computer employees are only offered part time to start.
Also - everyone knows that the tax rates will revert to pre BUSH rates on JAN 1st and there will be several new taxes that also begin. Come Jan 15th when those first paychecks - or maybe direct deposit pay stubs are seen in bright daylight by the average joe there will be screams...
This is a done deal - election results are irrelevant since it will take the new Congress to get up to speed before any relief action can be considered. ObamaCare was based on the HOPE that the Economy would be back up to full speed by now so such tax burdens would not hurt so much.
Bailey Guns
10-20-2012, 08:12
If you're talking about Paul 'the economic genius with a bachelor's degree in political science and economics' Ryan's plan it's smoke and mirrors and even given that much leeway it still makes NO fiscal sense. This is their best plan? There's a reason they don't ever want to get into specifics on it when pressed on the topic. We're fucked.
I find it interesting you believe the democrat talking points about Ryan not having a specific plan. But you'll discount the fact he's had a plan for two years now with all the specifics in black and white.
Whether or not it makes fiscal sense is up for debate. At least he's put forth a starting point for solving the fiscal problems we face. No one else has done that.
Uberjager
10-20-2012, 09:32
bahahahahahahahahahahahaha
[LOL][LOL][LOL]
You went to government school didn't you????????
Get back to me after you've lost loved ones from berylliosis.
BushMasterBoy
10-20-2012, 11:08
Get back to me after you've lost loved ones from berylliosis.
I got some beryllium up my nose from United States Air Force radar jammers. It ate a hole in my cheek bone. If I had known I would have wore a mask every time I maintained these systems. Where the hell was OSHA, MSDS and Air Force safety officers? I was just a two striper at the time. 9 out of 10 doctors ask me "how do you spell beryllium?" Damn manufacturers did not warn me in the Technical Orders or T.O. as they were called. Prognosis is cancer eventually, can you imagine having a cancer of your head? Like I need another hole in head...
Yeah we need regulation! And Jimmy Carter belongs in SuperMax!
He may or may not. But I know there is a better chance of him doing something than Obama.
A better chance at doing something is not necessarily a good thing when he wants to create an amendment making abortion illegal. Now, whether I believe in it or not is irrelevant but I know what kind of a shit story creating amendments to TAKE AWAY rights creates. I know how much more opposition Barack would face should he actually attempt to move on his luke warm desire to take our firearms. I don't believe in stripping rights via amendments regardless of the cause so we'll leave the bulk of this response for another thread as we're going to get (even more) off topic otherwise. For now we'll just say that what he wants to do is repeal Omabacare and replace it with something that for the most part is the same damn thing. As long as big medical is in the pockets of both candidates the end result will be the same... the will just disguise it in different ways to please their bases. In the end, we the peasants get screwed.
I find it interesting you believe the democrat talking points about Ryan not having a specific plan. But you'll discount the fact he's had a plan for two years now with all the specifics in black and white.
Whether or not it makes fiscal sense is up for debate. At least he's put forth a starting point for solving the fiscal problems we face. No one else has done that.
Are you talking about the 22yr plan? It's not that I don't believe is has a plan I just refuse to agree that's it's useful enough to be labeled a 'plan'.
Bailey Guns
10-20-2012, 12:54
Mostly a 10 year plan with some longer range spending/saving forecasts. But no one else...no one...has anything close.
We gotta start somewhere.
Mostly a 10 year plan with some longer range spending/saving forecasts. But no one else...no one...has anything close.
We gotta start somewhere.
No one has anything else? Well, not out of Obama or Romney anyway. Fuck, my plans are better than what is being presented out of these two corporate shills.
Bailey Guns
10-20-2012, 15:12
Then why aren't you putting your money, time and reputation into a political career?
Then why aren't you putting your money, time and reputation into a political career?
Even if I had any of the above I'm smart enough to not align myself with such morally corrupt individuals.
Obama did read Atlas Shrugged
He's using it as a how-to manual. [Mad]
Sounds a lot like Atlas Shrugged. [Train]
HUGE +1
That was what I was thinking.
I watched tons of micro/macro related movies, but it took me about 10hours to find out what Atlas Shrugged I was about. [ROFL2]
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