View Full Version : Noveske "fake"
So.. I met up with a member last night to sell my noveske. After he looked at it for a while he said he was going to pass on it, because he wasn't sure it was a "real" noveske. He based this off of the fit of the upper and lower. They weren't really tight fitting and there is a little bit of play between them. Out of the 6 or so ar 15s I've had, none of them are any tighter than this (with the exception of a rock river lower). He said that if both the upper and lower are both noveske, they should be a really tight fit. I am certain that they are both true noveskes. I do think that the upper is a couple years older than the lower though. I even had the guys at Jensen look at it, and they said its for sure a noveske. It has the iron cross on the upper obviously also. He also said that noveske wouldn't put a Yankee hill comp on the barrel. (It's a 14.5" so it's pinned).
What are your thoughts?? To be honest, I'm kinda pissed...
Give you $500 for it. I'm kidding I also have no answer for you
If the lower is marked "Noveske" it is probably legit. I think something like that would be hard to fake from a legal stand point. To the best of my knowledge, I am not aware of anyone faking the upper receiver by putting the Noveske cross logo on them. Upper to lower fit varies quite a bit from piece to piece. My guess would be if it were a factory complete rifle when it was new it would have a pretty good fit as I imagine they would find a lower and upper that fit nicely before assembling the rifle. Hard to say without having it in hand to look at but my guess would be one of two things. Either the lower was bought as a complete Noveske unit and the upper was bought as a complete Noveske unit separately and they were put together, or the lower was a stripped lower assembled by whoever with whatever kind of parts and then had a Noveske upper put on it.
Of course, in the world of ARs, who knows. How is the barrel marked? What about markings on the bolt carrier?
I have no idea if they would have used the YHM muzzle device either.
No reason to be pissed, other than his wasting your time. He didn't ding it up or anything when looking at it did he? That's why some of us like to call "seconds" on threads in the trading post... things like this happen and folks decline for sometimes BS reasons... if nothing else, he got cold feet.
Sorry. I just looked at your ad. Being a "chainsaw" lower, it definitely wasn't a complete lower from Noveske and definitely wasn't part of a new rifle. These are their blemished lowers and were sold as a stripped lower only.
I would be more interested in seeing if the upper is really Noveske.
Could you post a shot of the ejection port side so we can see the markings?
Also, I would still be interested in the markings on the barrel and the BCG.
Yes the lower is a chainsaw assembled by me. He was worried about the upper. The barrel is noveske with the iron cross, and 5.56 markings. I can take more pics when I get home. And also.. The "blem" lowers should fit exactly the same as a non blem. They are cosmetic blems, and and are still guaranteed to be spec.
And also.. The "blem" lowers should fit exactly the same as a non blem. They are cosmetic blems, and and are still guaranteed to be spec.
Yes, they are only cosmetic blems. If there was something wrong with them other than cosmetics then Noveske wouldn't sell them for liability reasons.
I mentioned in my first post that upper to lower fit varies from piece to piece even among the same manufacturer. Personally, I'm not overly concerned with upper to lower fit on a defensive carbine. A "precision" rifle is a whole different story.
Anyhow, not meaning any disrespect here, but I wouldn't describe the rifle as "a Noveske". It is built with a Noveske lower and may have a complete Noveske upper on it and could be very nice shooter. But it is still just a "franken-rifle". Like I said, no disrespect meant. Every one of mine is a franken-rifle and they are all great rifles.
Well I did state in my thread that it is a built lower with a blem lower. And the buyer also knew that before hand. It's still all noveske parts except the trigger parts kit
And I agree. But that's also why I'm selling it for barely over $1,000.00. If it was a factory complete noveske I'd be asking way north of that.
Delfuego
10-19-2012, 13:16
Does the upper have a "cross" on it too? Not the barrel, but the upper. Cant see any on the photos.
Well I did state in my thread that it is a built lower with a blem lower. And the buyer also knew that before hand. It's still all noveske parts except the trigger parts kit
And the PSA buffer. [Coffee]
Well, if the potential buyer knew all of the details going in and you hadn't misrepresented it to him then I would say he backed out on the deal.
That being said, I never count on a buyer sticking to a deal until he has had the chance to inspect my item in person and make sure everything is as he expected.
Hopefully you didn't waste too much time or gas trying to make the deal. If it makes you feel better, I once drove up to Loveland to buy a 12 ga. only to get there and find out it had been accidentally misrepresented and was actually a 20 ga. I would have been less upset if I hadn't driven that far in my 3/4 ton truck at 12 miles per gallon.
Haha. Yeah I understand. We also had a phone convo, and I explained exactly what it was. He wasn't a jerk about it by any means, and said the wobble didn't bother him, other than a noveske wouldnt wobble like that if both the lower and upper were in fact noveske. And to answer the poster above ray, yes. It was a cross on the upper itself also, and it is not a chainsaw or second marked upper. Ill post pics when I'm off work.
The upper and lower probably would fit a little nicer if it was a factory rifle. I imagine they probably hand select the receivers for a nice fit when they build a factory Noveske rifle.
Dunecrazzy
10-19-2012, 13:48
I didn't know what a chainsaw lower was till now. I was thinking Gears of War weapon.
Thanks for the lesson Ray
Great-Kazoo
10-19-2012, 14:44
50-80% of most factory assembled AR's have some "wobble" I've had NIB unfired AR's that closed on No Go Guages! No big deal to me. Was the potential buyer entering it in a beauty contest??
Holy Shitte good thing i read this whole thread twice. MY LMT Has WOBBLE. @#$%^&#$%^& what the hell am i going to do now??
JohnnyEgo
10-19-2012, 15:09
I have two Noveske rifles. One is factory. One is a build. Both wobble a little. In the olden days, you could tell a factory gun from a build gun by looking for the cross stamped between the upper and lower joint. Don't know if that is still true, but there you go.
For a little while, if you asked John very nicely, he'd pin just about anything you wanted, or provide you with a custom barrel profile. I doubt he's doing much in the way of that anymore. However, plenty of people bought Noveske uppers and then took them to folks to do a pin and weld. So the flash suppressor in and of itself tells you nothing.
I doubt anyone is going to go through the effort of laser-ing or roll-marking a generic upper to make a Noveske knock-off. I just can't see the margins in it.
Worst case scenario, you have a Noveske lower, a Noveske upper (possibly), and a Noveske barrel. Not a Noveske gun, per se, but close to it. I'd call it a build gun, list the parts, and run with that.
I was the potential buyer and chose not to purchase the rifle after I inspected it. A few of you commenting on my reason is pure speculation.
I have built a few Noveske's from uppers and lowers purchased from different vendors at different times of manufacture. All builds were A+ fitment. The concern was with quality manufactured parts from Noveske you should have little to no movement of their uppers and lowers. So this leads me to "wonder" if one of the two parts are not Noveske or QC compliant. Remember he is posting a Noveske parts build.
I have other name brand AR's that are loose in the upper lower fit and it makes no difference on reliability or accuracy in the guns for my type of use. So this is not an issue or the reason for declining to purchase the AR.
The comment about the pinned Yankee hill comp was referring to his comment that it was a complete upper assembled at Noveske. That's what he was told. I said it was not installed at Noveske because the crush washer was literally crushed and bulging out of the barrel / comp matting surface in two locations with multiple wrench marks gouged on the flats. This is not the work of Noveske so that covers the YHM part of the post.
I drove about an hour to meet Alex close to his house so I did not cause any unreasonable expenses for him to allow me to see the item I was to pay $1,100 for. Alex was very polite and I have no problem doing business with him in the future.
So to sum it all up I went with my gut feeling and respectfully declined. This is how buying used items works in my world and I hope I didn't upset the ar-15 forum.
I was the potential buyer and chose not to purchase the rifle after I inspected it. A few of you commenting on my reason is pure speculation.
I have built a few Noveske's from uppers and lowers purchased from different vendors at different times of manufacture. All builds were A+ fitment. The concern was with quality manufactured parts from Noveske you should have little to no movement of their uppers and lowers. So this leads me to "wonder" if one of the two parts are not Noveske or QC compliant. Remember he is posting a Noveske parts build.
I have other name brand AR's that are loose in the upper lower fit and it makes no difference on reliability or accuracy in the guns for my type of use. So this is not an issue or the reason for declining to purchase the AR.
The comment about the pinned Yankee hill comp was referring to his comment that it was a complete upper assembled at Noveske. That's what he was told. I said it was not installed at Noveske because the crush washer was literally crushed and bulging out of the barrel / comp matting surface in two locations with multiple wrench marks gouged on the flats. This is not the work of Noveske so that covers the YHM part of the post.
I drove about an hour to meet Alex close to his house so I did not cause any unreasonable expenses for him to allow me to see the item I was to pay $1,100 for. Alex was very polite and I have no problem doing business with him in the future.
So to sum it all up I went with my gut feeling and respectfully declined. This is how buying used items works in my world and I hope I didn't upset the ar-15 forum.
I have no gripes about you wanting to inspect an item before buying it. This post came across to me more about concerns with what the seller actually had for sale.
No hard feelings on my part. I would expect you to look at anything I was selling you before you made a firm commitment. [Beer]
SouthPaw
10-19-2012, 16:16
I am sure a quick call to Noveske might answer a lot of these questions. They stand behind their chainsaw lowers even as blems. I just put together a chainsaw lower, PSA LPK, and a DTI complete upper. I do have very little if any movement between the two. Same goes from my RRA lower and DTI upper.
Seems like Bimmer's real question is: Could my Noveske upper be fake?
It sounds like both he and the prospective buyer approached this transaction in good faith and a reasonable decision was made by the prospective buyer (at no cost to the seller). I'm interested to see the pics and hear from knowledgeable members if they think the upper is legit.
The question should be Bimmer, where did you acquire the upper at?
It may indeed be a Noveske Upper receiver, barrel, and rail, and someone may have bought those parts separate and assembled them selves, or even removed the standard A2 and installed the YHM comp after the fact.
Upper and lower being loose, I am no expert on the matter, but given mine which started out with piss perfect fitment between the upper and lower (pins went in easy and absolutely no movement between the PSA lower and Vltor upper) after 4k+ rounds now has a little slop, which means precisely squat in regards to the accuracy or function of the rifle. All the accuracy is in the upper, and one would have to have a disturbing amount of slop between the upper and lower to start impacting function. If one is uncomfortable with it, put in an accuwedge.
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