Heavy Carbine buffers?

[Bill]

So do heavy carbine buffers help reduce recoil.
what works best 16in barreled AR Carbine .223?

[SideShow Bob]

Some have experienced ejection and feeding problems with lighter loads compared to running the hotter Mil-Spec ammo.

You will need to turn in your Man Card if the recoil of an AR is too much for you.......[ROFL1]

[Kaiser.Shooter]

16" barrel and what is the gas system length carbine(7") or mid-length (9") ?

[van7559]

recoil?? really??

[Skully]

recoil?? really??

Shoot your AR with the butt resting on your nutz and then think about recoil. (Disclaimer: not that I have actually done that.) [Coffee]

On a seriously note to the OP I am not sure what heavy buffer your talking about?

I use the Spike's ST-T2 and mid length gas systems resulting in a nice soft cycle. I could see if running a carbine gas and a light buffer upgrading that buffer to a little heavier weight might make it feel a little better but between a standard and and the ST-T2 I am using is mere ounces of weight. I have read that for short barrel rifles under 14" it helps.

Don't over think it, I see no real reason to use a "Heavy buffer" on a 5.56 carbine with 14.5 or more barrel. Someone wiser (matter of opinion) than me will probably chime in :)

[van7559]

Shoot your AR with the butt resting on your nutz and then think about recoil. (Disclaimer: not that I have actually done that.) [Coffee]


I thought that was required to properly break in the weapon, and "season the barrel"[ROFL1]

[BuffCyclist]

I have a S&W M&P15T (16" carbine) that I added an H buffer to. I don't recall noticing a change in recoil, but I think it dampened the recoil a bit (if that makes sense) so it wasn't as sharp.

Other than that, shoot it a ton and the recoil tends to go away. Or, you can get an AR10, shoot that a ton and then pick up the AR15 and see if you're still complaining about recoil. [LOL]

[Bill]

16" barrel and what is the gas system length carbine(7") or mid-length (9") ?


7in gas system

[SideShow Bob]

Shoot your AR with the butt resting on your nutz and then think about recoil. (Disclaimer: not that I have actually done that.) )

There is an old Army training film that we were shown at the beginning of basic training where the instructor was doing that with an M16. Probably of early Vietnam era.
Maybe some of the "Old Farts" can remember seeing it, if alzheimer's hasn't set in too deep........[LOL]

[Great-Kazoo]

Shoot your AR with the butt resting on your nutz and then think about recoil. (Disclaimer: not that I have actually done that.) [Coffee]


How many roofies do you need "before" placing it on "your nuts"
Mil Spec or Commercial stock for better fitment?

[Bill]

looking for better recoil control for better Accuracy.

[Skully]

How many roofies do you need "before" placing it on "your nuts"
Mil Spec or Commercial stock for better fitment?

Did you not read the disclaimer Jim? .....although my honest opinion mil spec. [Coffee]

Side show nailed it, too much of a wimp to personally test the recoil by nut -n-stick. [Tooth]

To the OP, buffer weight would not be as important as your muzzle end............i like my spikes dynacomp, people swear by battlecomp, but i am too cheap to spend that much but there are alternatives.

[ray1970]

looking for better recoil control for better Accuracy.

Not sure if it will really help with accuracy, but minimizing as much of the "recoil" as you can lets you stay on target for faster follow up shots.

I have always run the "heavy" buffer in all of my carbines with no problems. Most with the mid-length gas system but a few with the carbine length gas system.

I recently put together my first 14.5" with the mid-length gas system and was worried it might not cycle properly with the heavy buffer. Turns out it cycles just fine. 300 rounds and no problems yet.

I think you'll get more noticeable results with a good muzzle device than you will the buffer.

You can see in this video that my 14.5" middy is very controllable.

6bAde7WkqNc

[dwalker460]

I think you'll get more noticeable results with a good muzzle device than you will the buffer.

This^^^^^

the muzzle device is a lot more important to felt recoil than the buffer.

[Skully]

This^^^^^

the muzzle device is a lot more important to felt recoil than the buffer.


Yeah give Ray credit, he is a nice guy and all, but I said it first.[Coffee]

[ray1970]

Yeah give Ray credit, he is a nice guy and all, but I said it first.[Coffee]

You posted while I was typing. I didn't see it until after I got my awesome post up. I went above and beyond. I added a video.
[Coffee]

[jerrymrc]

I am staying out of this one. [Flower]

[ray1970]

To the OP, buffer weight would not be as important as your muzzle end............i like my spikes dynacomp, people swear by battlecomp, but i am too cheap to spend that much but there are alternatives.



I think you'll get more noticeable results with a good muzzle device than you will the buffer.




the muzzle device is a lot more important to felt recoil than the buffer.

Looks like the consensus is you need a good muzzle device of some sort. [Awesom]

[BPTactical]

The only tangible benefit the heavy buffer serves IMHO is as a rate reducer.
I have never perceived an appreciable difference.
As mentioned a good muzzle device and a good trigger set up like a Geissel will provide a marked difference.

[NightCat]

I'm running a mid-length gas on my 16" AR with an H Buffer and Carbine Action Spring...no problems, minimal recoil.

Very stable platform...

All BCM Parts here..

[Bill]

Not sure if it will really help with accuracy, but minimizing as much of the "recoil" as you can lets you stay on target for faster follow up shots.

I have always run the "heavy" buffer in all of my carbines with no problems. Most with the mid-length gas system but a few with the carbine length gas system.

I recently put together my first 14.5" with the mid-length gas system and was worried it might not cycle properly with the heavy buffer. Turns out it cycles just fine. 300 rounds and no problems yet.

I think you'll get more noticeable results with a good muzzle device than you will the buffer.

You can see in this video that my 14.5" middy is very controllable.



Thank You

what weight of the "heavy" buffer do you use. 4oz range or the 5oz range?

[Kaiser.Shooter]

buffer weights:
H- 3.5-3.8oz
H2-4.2-4.6oz
H3-5.4-5.8oz

If you would like to try a heavy buffer I can make you one with any of the weights above.
I have a tungsten powder and buffers or I can use your std buffer.

[ray1970]

Thank You

what weight of the "heavy" buffer do you use. 4oz range or the 5oz range?

I'm afraid I don't have a good answer for you. I never actually weighed them. It's just marked with an "H".

[Skully]

Thank You

what weight of the "heavy" buffer do you use. 4oz range or the 5oz range?


I have a similar setup to Ray's, 14.5 pinned mid-length gas system. The Spike's ST2 I am using is 4.06 oz, smooth cycling. I have a standard flash hider nothing more on it and it felt very controllable. Ray's in the video he posted has the PWS mini flash hider/Comp, very nice, I liked it so much, my second 14.5 pinned middy uses the standard PWS.

BP's comment about refined trigger would go a long way as well, but those for the one he mentions is in the $200+ range. Control your rifle or control your wallet....................[Tooth]

[dwalker460]

I just use the H buffer for the most part, although I do have a Spikes ST2.
I have used a variety of muzzle devices, and the favorite so far has been the AR Stoner Competition, which is pretty much the same as the JP Comps, just cheaper, and I just picked up an Arredondo comp to try, which I also think will work well. Have tried the Troy Medieval comp and its ok.
Agree with what Bert had to say, the buffer has more to do with the cycling of the rifle, the comp, rifle weight, stock fit, and ammunition selection is what affects felt recoil.

[Bill]

Thanks For the Help, thats the info I was looking for.

[kwando]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njaLucvpEV0&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLpuHF0ta7y5_Msoew3lqJeQ

[Bill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njaLucvpEV0&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLpuHF0ta7y5_Msoew3lqJeQ


Hey this link does not work please repost with a good link. Thank you

[Kaiser.Shooter]

it works, good vid
let me know if you want to play with a different weights to see what works better in your rifle

[ray1970]

Dang. Now I am going to need a high speed camera to check the function of my action. [Coffee]

If your buffer doesn't rattle when you shake it, it can lead to "bolt bounce". That's why you won't find the Spike's buffers in my rifles.

The little weights rattling around in the buffer serve a purpose. It's sort of a "dead blow hammer" effect. As the spring pushes the buffer and BCG forward, the weights inside the buffer are shoved to the back of the buffer. When the bolt gets all of the way forward and stops, those little weights fly forward inside the buffer to counteract the bolt wanting to bounce back.

You can see the bolt bounce I am talking about in the video linked to above.

The big difference between a standard carbine buffer, an "H" buffer, and the "H2" and "H3" is the materials used for the little discs rattling around inside the buffer.

A standard buffer has three steel discs inside. The "H" buffer is slightly heavier because one of the steel discs is replaced with a tungsten disc. The "H2" has two tungsten discs, and the "H3" has all of the discs inside made from tungsten.

[Beer]

[Dunecrazzy]

I have seen the heavy recoil spring short cycle a feed using 55gr. Took the gun to BP changed the spring fixed.

[Bill]

Spikes Tactical Battle Trigger SetSo I put in a 4.5oz buffer nice hardly any jump/recoil to it. put a Spikes tactical battle trigger set in with a 3.5lb spring kit. now its a sweet shooter. Thank to the people that gave me a helping hand.

[TheBelly]

Dang. Now I am going to need a high speed camera to check the function of my action. [Coffee]

If your buffer doesn't rattle when you shake it, it can lead to "bolt bounce". That's why you won't find the Spike's buffers in my rifles.

The little weights rattling around in the buffer serve a purpose. It's sort of a "dead blow hammer" effect. As the spring pushes the buffer and BCG forward, the weights inside the buffer are shoved to the back of the buffer. When the bolt gets all of the way forward and stops, those little weights fly forward inside the buffer to counteract the bolt wanting to bounce back.

You can see the bolt bounce I am talking about in the video linked to above.

The big difference between a standard carbine buffer, an "H" buffer, and the "H2" and "H3" is the materials used for the little discs rattling around inside the buffer.

A standard buffer has three steel discs inside. The "H" buffer is slightly heavier because one of the steel discs is replaced with a tungsten disc. The "H2" has two tungsten discs, and the "H3" has all of the discs inside made from tungsten.

[Beer]


My spikes st-t2 buffer has a little cartridge filled with what sounds like powder. It still has the dead blow effect. Try shaking it again and listen close.

[MarkCO]

Heavy buffers will lengthen the recoil impulse some, but they will increase the total movement, albeit very minimally. Yes, a better muzzle device is a better choice.

The majority of 3Gunners use reduced weight buffers and reduced weight carriers with good comps to keep the rifle flat and fast. The next step is to look at gas volume and pressure. An adjustable gasblock to reduce the excessive amount of gas delivered will help. A rifle length gas system with a smaller than mil-spec hole and a solid gas block is a better more reliable solution.

[muddywings]

Heavy buffers will lengthen the recoil impulse some, but they will increase the total movement, albeit very minimally. Yes, a better muzzle device is a better choice.

The majority of 3Gunners use reduced weight buffers and reduced weight carriers with good comps to keep the rifle flat and fast. The next step is to look at gas volume and pressure. An adjustable gasblock to reduce the excessive amount of gas delivered will help. A rifle length gas system with a smaller than mil-spec hole and a solid gas block is a better more reliable solution.

Mark,
Per what I asked you on Friday at the very end about my two buffers, I went ahead and pulled apart the standard carbine buffer I had and found that it had 3 weights. I had a 1/2" pine dowel lying around so I cut three 'blanks' and was figuring I would throw one in at a time and shoot a few rounds to see the difference. (The thinner round ones are just rubber spacers)
I can't imagine it making much of a difference for someone as inexperienced as myself but just want to verify what I should be experiencing/looking for.
I also ASSUME that this will be harder on the internals such as BCG ect?

Pic below is with the Spikes T2 on top and the other disassembled below.
(I'm a tinker-er at heart so I just like pulling things apart and figuring how they work)

http://i.imgur.com/x8w0k.jpg?1

PS to anybody: I shook the Spikes and sure enough the powder slides inside and dead blows.

[MarkCO]

Yes, you can certainly try the wood plugs. Eventually, they will crack and splinter, but a good test procedure however. Put in a stock one then two of the wood ones last. The wear might go up a slight amount, but mostly insignificant. Did you weigh the original config?

I run two stock weights and one polymer, but I also run a low mass carrier so I am cutting out about 4 ounces from the total system.

Some guys run a low mass system with an XP spring...but that is also the set-up prone to slam fires due to the floating firing pin, so a Titanimum pin is also needed. That is adding almost $250, so make sure it is somthing you need before you go there.

[muddywings]

Yes, you can certainly try the wood plugs. Eventually, they will crack and splinter, but a good test procedure however. Put in a stock one then two of the wood ones last. The wear might go up a slight amount, but mostly insignificant. Did you weigh the original config?

I run two stock weights and one polymer, but I also run a low mass carrier so I am cutting out about 4 ounces from the total system.

Some guys run a low mass system with an XP spring...but that is also the set-up prone to slam fires due to the floating firing pin, so a Titanimum pin is also needed. That is adding almost $250, so make sure it is somthing you need before you go there.

Thanks for your time. Good point about the wood crack/splintering.
I need $250 ammo out the gun at targets more than I need the fancy stuff!

I'll have to ask around for a scale that small.

[muddywings]

because i have to tinker with everything, for those who run a google search for the ultimate buffer question, here is my test with different buffers, see picture above for more details. (watch your sound settings)

I put 3-4 coats of a spray on laquer on the dowels to prevent them from splintering/cracking.


https://vimeo.com/54745727

[MarkCO]

Nice work Brian. Could you feel the differences?

[muddywings]

Nice work Brian. Could you feel the differences?

yes, the spikes was way to much movement.
as with the other buffer-i think no change and 2 dowels were about the same-i'm sure there is some crazy weird physics reason for it.
the one dowel replacement I like the best and will leave it like that.

I need to ask a non-bias person if they can tell the difference from the video.

with all the lacquer i sprayed on it, i'm going to leave it in there and inspect after i shoot for a while to see how it holds up for awhile.

[Goodburbon]

My spikes 14.5 middy won't cycle cheap ammo with the t2 buffer installed. Swap to a standard buffer, and it runs fine.

[muddywings]

My spikes 14.5 middy won't cycle cheap ammo with the t2 buffer installed. Swap to a standard buffer, and it runs fine.

my 16 inch middy with the T2 would cycle (90%) cheap stuff but no way would it lock on the last round.

[johngraves2]

I tired searching and couldn't find the answer i needed, and this seemed like the closest thread to my question:

What is a good buffer weight for a mid-length, 16in. barrel. it functions fine now, but I am wondering if there would be a benefit in getting an H or H2. I was looking at getting one of the spikes buffers.

[kwando]

I run H buffers on my middys and they cycle fine. Very smooth shooting

[ray1970]

I run the H buffer in all of my 5.56 rifles. I've run them with no problems in 14.5" and 16" barrels with both carbine and mid length gas systems.