View Full Version : Concern with my .308 Build (range report)
Alright. So I finally got my Vortex Crossfire fixed and just mounted it.
Took the build out to zero, and I am getting really large groups at 100 Yards (4-5 inches) Now I have been shooting a long time and I don't think my fundamentals are off a whole lot, but this is my first jump into the precision-type field.
I did buy some really cheap ammo because it does not like soft-nose ammo at all. I was happy with the cycling no jams at all. What my question is could real cheap ammo make this big of a difference? I just wanted to go out and get on paper today, but it is hard to feel happy with the rifle with such big groups.
AR pr0n below.
*Sold*
What my question is could real cheap ammo make this big of a difference?
Short answer... yes.
Since it appears you don't load your own, I would suggest buying some quality, match grade ammunition and try that.
Also, not meaning any disrespect here, but are you 100% sure there wasn't any flinching involved?
I am in the middle of putting one of these things together as we speak. While I'm not expecting miracles, I am really expecting one inch groups or better at 100 yards.
Good looking rifle by the way. [Awesom]
Short answer... yes.
Since it appears you don't load your own, I would suggest buying some quality, match grade ammunition and try that.
Also, not meaning any disrespect here, but are you 100% sure there wasn't any flinching involved?
I am in the middle of putting one of these things together as we speak. While I'm not expecting miracles, I am really expecting one inch groups or better at 100 yards.
Good looking rifle by the way. [Awesom]
Well, flinching I doubt it I was shooting prone, and perhaps it could be the worthless Harris bipod I have (every shot had to basically set up my fundamentals over again) I'm going to replace it. I was pretty cognizant of where every part of my body was at each round sent.
I would reload, but I don't have a bench built or dies bought yet. I realized that I needed to make reloading a priority with this rifle as I was sitting in Gander mountain this morning realizing that the selection of FMJ ammo for .308 was nil.
After watching Magpul's precision rifle series, I was expecting a lot better groups since one of the rifles that a guy was using was a LR-308 type.
Will get some match ammo. I have to research what bullet weight to start with the 1:10 twist and go with that.
Added info: The handguard does not have any give, thanks to a bunch of loctite. With the JP handguards I had issues with it loosening up, but not this time. Not rattle whatsoever.
The 1:10 twist will probably like the 168 gr. bullets or even heavier ones. Nosler makes a "custom competition" load that I've had good results with in the past. They usually carry it at Sportsmans Warehouse along with some other similar products from other manufacturers.
The one I am putting together has a 1:10 twist as well. Mine's not going to be quite as fancy as yours (yet). We'll see how she shoots when I get her done.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m98/rjs1970/photo-25.jpg
M855 gives me 3"+ groups in a quality barrel. 77g SMK'S give 5/16" groups in the same barrel. Both in .223, but the principal applies.
You can tell nothing about your rifle without good ammo. Go buy some Federal Gold Medal Match and put your mind at ease.
Delfuego
10-30-2012, 21:16
Go buy some Federal Gold Medal Match and put your mind at ease. +1 [Luck]
I have some M118LR, and I just got out of 308. PM me if your interested.
The 1:10 twist will probably like the 168 gr. bullets or even heavier ones. Nosler makes a "custom competition" load that I've had good results with in the past. They usually carry it at Sportsmans Warehouse along with some other similar products from other manufacturers.
The one I am putting together has a 1:10 twist as well. Mine's not going to be quite as fancy as yours (yet). We'll see how she shoots when I get her done.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m98/rjs1970/photo-25.jpg
Ray, that is a sexy rifle, I like the concept. You have abuild thread? Is that a DPMS upper and lower? I am sure you know how expensive 308 frame components are compared to the AR-15 stuff.
I think I will just have to order some good ammo, and if the results are the same it should be just me who is screwing up the groups. I sure wish the Sportsman's Warehouse in Aurora didn't close.
I sure wish the Sportsman's Warehouse in Aurora didn't close.
My allergies acted up when that happened. It was right up the road from the office... now all I have is Gander Mtn.. [Help]
My allergies acted up when that happened. It was right up the road from the office... now all I have is Gander Mtn.. [Help]
I only go to Gander Mountain when My gas tank doesn't allow me to go to Bass Pro, which is only in dire emergencies.
I don't mean to speak for RAY, and he can slap me later, but he ended up buying the same core pieces that I did, it is CMMG's MK3 combo upper/ lower. (built off of DPMS pattern though)
I read in most places the 1:10 twist it is recommended for heavy grain bullet, but I was putting 150grain remington stuff to test and plink with and was hitting the gong at 500 meters at the end which made me very happy. I had a similar problem but it turned out it was my scope, the 2 flat head screws holding the main body to the mount were lose from the factory.
I will have to add a disclaimer though, mine was not built for precision long range. I wanted an AR on steroids, middle of the road so to speak so I stuck with the 16" carbine format.
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp29/SkullyandRoxy/firearms/WHISKEY4_zps350b6d54.jpg
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp29/SkullyandRoxy/firearms/WHISKEY1_zpsd2804c2b.jpg
I don't mean to speak for RAY, and he can slap me later, but he ended up buying the same core pieces that I did, it is CMMG's MK3 combo upper/ lower. (built off of DPMS pattern though)
I read in most places the 1:10 twist it is recommended for heavy grain bullet, but I was putting 150grain remington stuff to test and plink with and was hitting the gong at 500 meters at the end which made me very happy. I had a similar problem but it turned out it was my scope, the 2 flat head screws holding the main body to the mount were lose from the factory.
I will have to add a disclaimer though, mine was not built for precision long range. I wanted an AR on steroids, middle of the road so to speak so I stuck with the 16" carbine format.
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp29/SkullyandRoxy/firearms/WHISKEY4_zps350b6d54.jpg
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp29/SkullyandRoxy/firearms/WHISKEY1_zpsd2804c2b.jpg
I can hit a 16" steel at 300 consistently, but I find things change when I go to paper. Friggin' awesome looking weapon BTW.
Yep. Skully's rifle inspired me to put mine together. My upper and lower are CMMG but I am actually using the DPMS "SASS" barrel because I heard nothing but good things about it and it was affordable. I put a JP Enterprise muzzle break on it to (hopefully) keep me from flinching.
keylay31
10-31-2012, 22:58
I had the same problem with my custom 308. I went through the paces, blamed the ammo, blamed the twist, the barrel length, loose rings, etc etc. long story short, throw the vortex away and put a diff scope on it. Replaced my vortex viper with a Nikon monarch and my groups went from 3" to 0.5". Sent the scope to vortex and they said no problem...
I had the same problem with my custom 308. I went through the paces, blamed the ammo, blamed the twist, the barrel length, loose rings, etc etc. long story short, throw the vortex away and put a diff scope on it. Replaced my vortex viper with a Nikon monarch and my groups went from 3" to 0.5". Sent the scope to vortex and they said no problem...
That is another concern I have. The first time I tried getting on paper, I barely had 50 rounds in it and the reticle canted on me.
While the warranty service and customer service was good, I am a little concerned that what is to say that something else will become amiss?
Kaiser.Shooter
11-01-2012, 15:37
long story short, throw the vortex away and put a diff scope on it.
^^^ this
Vortex Crossfire is a basic cheapest scope they make and it's probably good for up to .223 cal.
I had the same problem with my Steyr 7mmRemMag, after ca.100rds shooting and trying to find a cause of that miserable groupings the Vx Crossfire internals just fall apart - the turrets started to turn with the adjustment screws...
Sent it back to Vortex and they replaced it with a brand new scope (great warranty and CS) which I sold on craigslist and got another better scope for more money though.
Vortex Viper and Razor are way better quality scopes Made in Japan I believe.
^^^ this
Vortex Crossfire is a basic cheapest scope they make and it's probably good for up to .223 cal.
I had the same problem with my Steyr 7mmRemMag, after ca.100rds shooting and trying to find a cause of that miserable groupings the Vx Crossfire internals just fall apart - the turrets started to turn with the adjustment screws...
Sent it back to Vortex and they replaced it with a brand new scope (great warranty and CS) which I sold on craigslist and got another better scope for more money though.
Vortex Viper and Razor are way better quality scopes Made in Japan I believe.
Yeah, this may be my way ahead. I spent too much on this rifle to be shooting groups like I did. Could be me as well. I'll start reloading and at least it won't be as expensive. until I get to where I can spend 1K+ on a scope, because it probably is what it deserves. ;-)
Thank you Delfuego for meeting me today and giving me a good deal on some good ammo!
Goodburbon
11-01-2012, 16:18
In my experience the ammo can cause that much variance if you're using a steel cased steel jacketed crap like monarch. DAG surplus has shot sub 2" consistiently with many 5 shot groups <1" and factory match grade ammo shoots 1.5" and down depending on brand in my LR.308. I don't bother to shoot the steel cased stuff through it, because it's not even really fun to have 5" groups with a precision rifle.
I don't bother to shoot the steel cased stuff through it, because it's not even really fun to have 5" groups with a precision rifle.
^Yeah, this definately.^
The SWFA SS 3-9x40 has been rock solid on my Sig716. 1" or less groups with plain old PPU 145gr or better, and fairly consistent on steel at 600yds.
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