View Full Version : Well...looks like I got taken. No Police help.
ok...so almost 10 weeks back I spotted a firearm for sale on another site. I contacted the seller for photos and he promptly sent me a photo. Looked good. Descussed the condition and was told what was wrong with it (needed 2 parts replaced). We discussed payment and he requested that it be sent to him at his business (which I verified his association with via the net). Because of the 2 parts that need to be replaced he got a ruling from the ATF that this is considered a parts kit by them. I also called them and spoke with a second ATF agent and they upheld that ruling. I still requested it be shipped to a local gunstore.
Sent funds and the same day he received funds he sent me an email stating it had been shipped to my home. Not happy about that but nothing to be done. I requested tracking...2 weeks went by with him delaying getting me that tracking number. Then I get a message that it was just shipped and here is the tracking....so he lied about shipping the first time.
1 package showed and it is only part of the gun. After calling, emailing, and texting I get notice that package number 2 has been shipped. It arrives...and in looking at what is there...this is NOT the same gun in the photo that I was originally sent. I have since found the stock photo on the net. And I am still missing parts.
Went by the local police and the office staff wouldn't even consider having me talk with an officer about it. Don't know what the laws are surrounding this but I thought that bait and switch was against the law. I also didn't think it mattered how this occurred. Internet, mail, in person...crime is crime.
Guess not.
So you avoid telling us what type of gun it was, who the seller was, how much it cost but contacted the ATF? Troll.
Also it takes 3 days to ship something USPS... I surely wouldn't wait two weeks... Lions eat gazelles for a reason.
So you avoid telling us what type of gun it was, who the seller was, how much it cost but contacted the ATF? Troll.
You are correct I didn't. Moreover none of that holds any bearing on the facts of what occurred.
BuffCyclist
11-02-2012, 00:29
So you avoid telling us what type of gun it was, who the seller was, how much it cost but contacted the ATF? Troll.
Just FYI: Trolls don't usually post 234 times and then suddenly post spam.
Did you purchase the gun through a forum, armslist, gunbroker? Pay with PayPal (credit card), USPS Money Order, Personal Check or Cashiers Check?
Only thing I can think of where a firearm would not be classified as a firearm, is if it does not include the receiver, in which case it is not a firearm but an upper. My understanding is that even a firearm missing a firing pin or a revolver missing a cylinder are classified as firearms and need to be shipped to FFLs (though thats my opinion without doing research into it).
Might try contacting the police in his city, have his name/address and provide them with all copies of emails between you and seller, and you and ATF. If you tell the police in your city that you received a firearm, shipped directly to your house, they will most likely show up at your house and take it from you and maybe even issue a fine (as you broke the law too).
Again, this is all my take on the situation and without all the details, its hard to say what really happened.
eta: How did he get your home address? Unless you gave it to him directly (though I guess return address label of money sent via mail). But still, very shady.
Just FYI: Trolls don't usually post 234 times and then suddenly post spam.
Did you purchase the gun through a forum, armslist, gunbroker? Pay with PayPal (credit card), USPS Money Order, Personal Check or Cashiers Check?
Only thing I can think of where a firearm would not be classified as a firearm, is if it does not include the receiver, in which case it is not a firearm but an upper. My understanding is that even a firearm missing a firing pin or a revolver missing a cylinder are classified as firearms and need to be shipped to FFLs (though thats my opinion without doing research into it).
Might try contacting the police in his city, have his name/address and provide them with all copies of emails between you and seller, and you and ATF. If you tell the police in your city that you received a firearm, shipped directly to your house, they will most likely show up at your house and take it from you and maybe even issue a fine (as you broke the law too).
Again, this is all my take on the situation and without all the details, its hard to say what really happened.
eta: How did he get your home address? Unless you gave it to him directly (though I guess return address label of money sent via mail). But still, very shady.
Thanks...I didn't deem it worth commenting on the troll accusation.
It was purchased thru the website Subguns. Paid with a certified check.
As for the ATF classification...I disagreed with it thus the reason I still required he ship to a gunstore.
He got the home address off the envelope that I sent the check in.
Thanks...I didn't deem it worth commenting on the troll accusation.
It was purchased thru the website Subguns. Paid with a certified check.
As for the ATF classification...I disagreed with it thus the reason I still required he ship to a gunstore.
He got the home address off the envelope that I sent the check in.
Rule 1. You need a PO box.
Rule 2. Don't buy a gun unless you've seen it.
Rule 3. Give all the details you can about the transaction.. So even if you can't figure something else none of the rest of us will do business with him.
I would start by contacting the Subguns website owners first. They have a reputation for helping.
I would start by contacting the Subguns website owners first. They have a reputation for helping.
I did. Tom pulled the add and recommended I contact the police. He was also considering blocking the person.
BuffCyclist
11-02-2012, 01:27
So can we ask what gun you purchased and what pieces should have been missing? Then what was contained in the two boxes?
Rule 1. You need a PO box.
Rule 2. Don't buy a gun unless you've seen it.
Rule 3. Give all the details you can about the transaction.. So even if you can't figure something else none of the rest of us will do business with him.
1. ok...would have stopped him from shipping to me directly. Would NOT have changed the fact that I haven't received everything as agreed on nor would it have chenged that this isn't the gun from the photo.
2. Ok. That limits you to sellers in your area. Also limits what firearms are available to you.
3. I have been jumped for giving out too much info on a seller in the past. I will give name and city only.
Michael Moritomo
Phoenix Arizona
*If the mods feel this is inappropriate they are free to edit that info*
So can we ask what gun you purchased and what pieces should have been missing? Then what was contained in the two boxes?
It was an HK21
Should have been without the bolt and without the lowers and trigger pack.
So far I am missing most everything but the upper, the lowers (empty), the barrel, and the feed tray.
The agreement included a complete gun minus the lowers and the bolt needed to be replaced. It was also to include 5 belts including ammo.
So...missing basically all the guts and feed mechanisms, belts and ammo.
BuffCyclist
11-02-2012, 01:43
Well I know absolutely nothing of HKs, but if they're anything like ARs... It sounds like you ordered an upper, lower parts kit, stock kit and grip and broken bcg. Perhaps someone that knows HKs can chime in...
Post pics that you should have received, and what you actually received and we can determine if it was misrepresented.
Here is the photo he sent me:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/wetwrks/9b30438ec22e25caa9534401f538230c.jpg
which I found is direct off the manufacturers website here:
http://www.rdts.com/HK_Upgrades.html
I will try and get better photos of what I was sent tomorrow but here is one of the ones I have now:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/wetwrks/c792229db8738577340dca93a27c4d69.jpg
BuffCyclist
11-02-2012, 02:02
Like I said, I'm no expert on HKs, but those look like two entirely different models. Perhaps he misidentified it?
Was the price too good to be true? Whenever I am buying a firearm online from a private party and they have a stock photo listed (very rarely as I usually don't bother with those people), I ask to see multiple photos from different angles and all sides.
Like I said, I'm no expert on HKs, but those look like two entirely different models. Perhaps he misidentified it?
Was the price too good to be true? Whenever I am buying a firearm online from a private party and they have a stock photo listed (very rarely as I usually don't bother with those people), I ask to see multiple photos from different angles and all sides.
No, the price was in the ballpark for needing the 2 parts replaced. Frankly it was basically spot on. I didn't know it was a stock photo until after he had the $ and had shipped the 2 boxes. He did nothing to alert me that what I would receive isn't the gun in the photo he sent me.
Thus bait-and-switch.
So you avoid telling us what type of gun it was, who the seller was, how much it cost but contacted the ATF? Troll.
Let's see, He's been a member here for 7 years, You've been a member here for 4 months and you're calling him a troll?
Just want to get this straight before I ban your trolling ass.
Unless of course you would care to apologize just as publicly.
BuffCyclist
11-02-2012, 02:33
Regarding the model, it looks like you got the HK21K-UBF, not the HK21EUG like the picture portrayed (but technically its still an HK21).
Shy of driving to his house with his (non-functioning) gun and a police officer in tow, it doesn't seem like you have any way of getting your money back and returning the gun.
Byte Stryke
11-02-2012, 03:42
you also have civil recourse, though it may be a tad costly given the distances involved.
Whistler
11-02-2012, 04:24
Phoenix isn't that far... drove to Florida from NC once to straighten out a recalcitrant eBay seller over a wiper motor, he was much more cooperative in person.
Bailey Guns
11-02-2012, 05:07
I wouldn't blame the police for not following up. This sounds very much like a civil issue that you will have to work out in the courts...not a criminal issue. It still sucks. If he hadn't sent you anything, it might be criminal.
Difficult to tell from your photo, but what is actually missing to make it a functioning firearm? The bolt and the fire control parts? Anything else?
Just curious.
Inconel710
11-02-2012, 07:27
If the gun went through USPS, wouldn't that constitute mail fraud? You might have a tough time getting it prosecuted, but it makes a pretty good hammer to threaten him with if it applies.
dwalker460
11-02-2012, 07:31
This is going to be a tough one, and likely to not be worth the $ or effort your going to put into it. I agree Phoenix is not far, and it might be worthwhile to go down and at least ask why he has not followed through on the deal as specified.
You can sue him and get a judgement more than likely, but you will need a lot of documentation, starting with the shipped weight of the boxes vs the wieght they would have been had he included all he was supposed to. Then of course all communication between the two of you. Even if you get the judgement, it may take a long and painful road to collect.
Its interesting though because I just picked up a HK53 in 5.56 that I am going to build back up and was searching around for parts, guess I should be very careful who I deal with. Probably sell mine when its done though, I am more of a AR guy.
Canuckistani
11-02-2012, 07:57
If the gun went through USPS, wouldn't that constitute mail fraud? You might have a tough time getting it prosecuted, but it makes a pretty good hammer to threaten him with if it applies.
This - if you mailed the check to him, and/or he mailed the items you did receive via USPS, the seller has committed mail fraud. That's a federal offense - you may want to get the USPS involved.
spqrzilla
11-02-2012, 09:51
Nah, this is going to be viewed as a civil matter by all LEO.
colorider
11-02-2012, 10:40
Do a google search about your situation. It falls under mail fraud. And because it crossed state lines, it is a bigger issue. The search will tell you exactly what to do. I would love to link you to the solution , but I'm driving and am entering no cell coverage.
Danceswithwires
11-02-2012, 10:41
This seems to be mail or wire fraud, you may also have recourse through the police in Phoenix especially if they have previous reports on him.
So you avoid telling us what type of gun it was, who the seller was, how much it cost but contacted the ATF? Troll.
this guy has been here 7 years. you have been here under 6 months. way to make yourself look like a dumbass....
Sharpienads
11-02-2012, 12:20
Sorry man, that sucks. But as the saying goes "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."
I hope you can get it worked out.
If this was shipped through USPS, you could probably try to file something with them. it becomes federal with them. they have armed postmasters/investigators that handle these types of things.
I would even consider going so far as to let them know a firearm was shipped to your address when you requested it be shipped to a dealer. you risk involvement that could get the parts taken away though
I would call his local police. they might be more willing to help.
I had a guy try to screw me over when I was a kid. I wanted a R/C truck, found one for sale on a R/C forum. sent the money order, he never sent anything. his local police not only got me the truck, they got me the money as well and he got jail time.
Bailey Guns
11-02-2012, 16:06
It's not mail fraud. It's not going to be viewed as a criminal matter. It's a civil issue, pure and simple, no matter how much it sucks.
Holger Danske
11-02-2012, 16:15
Has the other guy stopped communicating with you? Perhaps contact him and discuss issues to see if he will try to correct them. Sorry that this was such a bad experience.
patrick0685
11-02-2012, 17:26
im going to Phoenix later this month...Ashton you just look like an ass
Here is the photo he sent me:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/wetwrks/9b30438ec22e25caa9534401f538230c.jpg
which I found is direct off the manufacturers website here:
http://www.rdts.com/HK_Upgrades.html
I will try and get better photos of what I was sent tomorrow but here is one of the ones I have now:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/wetwrks/c792229db8738577340dca93a27c4d69.jpg
Seems it was a real story it just sounded very vague and weird. My bad. Not a troll.
Seems it was a real story it just sounded very vague and weird. My bad. Not a troll.
This isn't HAI. You will actually run the risk of getting banned.
Rule 1. You need a PO box.
Rule 2. Don't buy a gun unless you've seen it.
Rule 3. Give all the details you can about the transaction.. So even if you can't figure something else none of the rest of us will do business with him.
The crap you say is ridiculous. Also, some of us have made many deals that have all worked out, your advice sucks. Oh, and the troll thing was out of line and makes you look like a jack ass.
It was an HK21
Should have been without the bolt and without the lowers and trigger pack.
So far I am missing most everything but the upper, the lowers (empty), the barrel, and the feed tray.
The agreement included a complete gun minus the lowers and the bolt needed to be replaced. It was also to include 5 belts including ammo.
So...missing basically all the guts and feed mechanisms, belts and ammo.
You have leverage on him. If he shipped you the lower to your house, he shipped a receiver directly to you which needed to go to an FFL. It is a numbered receiver correct? Does the guy live in colorado? If he lives here, it's legal, but if that receiver crossed state lines, the guy could be in deep shit, IE, leverage. [Beer]
Edit: He lives in Phoenix... Ya, he did a big no no shipping you the lower... LEVERAGE!
... My bad. Not a troll.
Damn right "your bad".
RYAN50BMG
11-02-2012, 20:51
I don't have any advice on the fraud part, but maybe I can help turn lemons into lemonade. 1. You got the "firearm". On my two HK weapons (SAR8/Vector 51 SBR) the serial #and MFG info are on the mag well. The trigger pack, guts or not, is not the registered part. Is there any MFG info? Building an HK 21 is'nt like slapping together some AR parts, it takes some work and skill. 2. You DO have the base for a nice weapon,but need some small parts, like you said. Bolt, OP rod, complete trigger pack,belt feed mechanism. You do have the (desirable) "club foot" buttstock, BUT the spring/guide rod may not be the right length, which may not let the bolt cycle fully. I have seen this on other 21s. Fraud and douchbaggery aside, I would give Red Dog (RDTS) a call and see what they can do for you.
RYAN50BMG
11-02-2012, 21:11
I just want to clear up some terms. On HK guns, the barreled "upper" with mag well is the serial numbered part. The trigger pack "lower" is not. From the OP's pic, no matter what terms you use, he got both. IMHO, this looks like a project that some one could'nt finish, so tried to get as much back as he could. I think chasing after this fucktard may not be worth the time and effort. Chalk it up to "lessons learned" and put the $$ into putting a cool gun together.
Since I was kind of a dick in the beginning of this, thought i'd add some helpful information. Whenever I'm buying something online ebay etc I always just run it against google images to make sure it's not a stock image and it's not too good to be true. If you goto google.com click images and simply drag and drop the image from the page into the search box it will look for images that are "visually similar" in this case it brings up several.
https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZivoNM3pgJCSyoMkE1ihOkZYxrxfB94 EIPvq3TmzcnA0vAvE5ERb2QtVjtWVm1f8RzdDescT7Qo49URub Z_1zb1y9YtJpZcHRKBNz0EBJKRxq3qCPLWxedNmGsTT-3t7xDrXysFUMuAJgMvLVCfChhk8mQJRJ6WNMlVlkUsPRgcrPs9 iCLykenOk9oLGRQzoyD5ZAj5GEWb7vijL6pHoGEqFMuQSIYIAE WcsqAzUytbNcDuWaKa9l0m1_1CoVqyOudW0GvTe4y_1ckNysQV _1pa6sh3cw9nzQrIH-oa58hy0jfqwF8Ug7PYH-AQVyVbs1Nv-ZQhNBZB3AUOk9J3tRi3R3Ejk_181-Ro0pUPt0z0j1MUBN0Imj9ZQxxJhwy8p1YOgfxjdIqCY4E3DNGL wYfN3Vzvr3WpcqDsAEii5eBb3c83sTlnKXuQfbtev-j8fNmTzK3Jv4CNkDfv6rt_1wZOH7ej_1Vv7irrmMIDOjv4Su_1 IIrF2oEc95NX1lSk_1Fu8gsnU9K-rzVfE4wzp568gY3zQTwBR2PJvgsPt47J0itO3rQe1iVze6tKaN tOMBgizFhyzUy-auujHIRmzYSPEAssgTYACc6u-BSx3Zh9BRUsYjtrJl5HIteiq_1uNqFP8wLzvUHl1HpjTMQQ8Ei OEXzmirG3IXIsNDlcNumoKR-lpy01mdxaFp9M1uAbMgHX9nxB-Mi8lxYu8H5FVUX7UrUX8H1nT4eXGIZJK2K2FqgRU7fqLyhSqTi 7yYcOMIg7ExmKd7QJ-t0V7nRgKjmygXw0cXiCb9aUibNR1IgKWo8OtZtEutr9LAq2UnZ n4jB6blkL4vIDh7YRdU7kXBJM8xUE_13LH9gGn0hSPuiGEnzts PrNPS8EWl_1CwDfqhrsDBiUPkp8HSDZfPpMcfwYcvr4KxFnplM mEUqx7rDHjkS1eWs4eCLV1ZHMDzHd3IwVEd3gh5jAXjxJeR24A fzNYyC2qWPsjmr2bKQ47CjZxgwSA_1GB1Q-pA8DiM0JFU-y0jZLmnRAF5E5FUdN-xzQvAl_1DGXqU5v2HkGA_17ZuFP3stgjuOp9aXeU5Iv052JWQi kTmWzOEYWVvEl0aG5VZqEhmKqhTdvfIahGOI3qZBngTQ5fZaJC iy8I3_1rbn2Tck9srpueOo1BI4NqrrOtVO4nLN_1E6IKDnnJvc DF8jmt5QE-3MVrFk-fZFnhdAgiH3JM5wN98Tc8GwtIJDMX5dP2VUAj5VVH7pu8xNMN7 aecO1JJFXgWyLZwGoOyoCuU0L1Ed9dBaaUgtHwj4VcWArsaI9Q 7lOjIntqvzx6qXqzCQsYI4m_1tlGMW9BkU1iaSBg9IVzWiqxZ7 CoLXhHntqKWU-pNb_1h4mtLBsgX_1DH_1g&num=10&hl=en&safe=off&bih=955&biw=1920
If several hits come up well it's probably a stock / fake image and not an image of the real item.
Personally. You couldn't pay me to call the ATF or any other govt agency. Not that I'm doing anything illegal. But I just don't like the attention.
IMHO it doesn't sound like you have any recourse insurance etc that you could get your money back with. At least none I can think of that would work. Sometimes you just have to say a lesson learned is a lesson learned.
Although, you could possibly to the shipping company that parts must have been lost in shipping as they weren't in the box when you got it. But they will probably tell you to take it up with the seller. Unless the box was severely damaged....
Ok, as has been commented on...the upper does have the serial number on this so...he can be in deep trouble for shipping me that. AND I do have email proof that I told him it was to be sent to an FFL.
Here is what actually showed up:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/wetwrks/80c0595bdd53494a5bff2a87bf1d30c9.jpg
As I have been told, this is what all I should have:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/wetwrks/68e0fa407ab12357239ec679c9e5ac0c.jpg
Some of it is assembled into the parts I have, some isn't there at all. I am also missing the belts and ammo.
Is that an actual Hk receiver?
You can just send him this in your next email to him:
2. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to a friend who resides in a different State?
Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.gov and http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html. The GCA provides an exception from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes. Thus, for example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting. Another exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits a firearm under the will of a decedent. See 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5).
Is that an actual Hk receiver?
I don't know how to tell. It is marked HK21EUG on the side. The top has the serial number marked S.N. BO225. And inside the feed area it has RDTS and their info.
I don't know how to tell. It is marked HK21EUG on the side. The top has the serial number marked S.N. BO225. And inside the feed area it has RDTS and their info.
Oh, damn... I was gona say, you could easily make your money back if it was... Anyway, at this point if he is being a dick, I would be a dick back and tell him that unless he complies with the original offer, you're gona turn him in, pretty simple... He not only committed a crime, he committed a federal crime. Or, just turn his ass in. [Beer]
Edit:
I would actually (after thinking about it) tell him he needs to send you your money back, and you will send him his parts back (through an FFL)... You knowingly kept the receiver... Or, just turn him in and file a police report about an illegal firearm transfer. I don't know if the police will deal with that, but I'm guessing that someone here has the number of one of the local ATF agents that would be glad to help you out.
BuffCyclist
11-03-2012, 01:50
Oh, damn... I was gona say, you could easily make your money back if it was... Anyway, at this point if he is being a dick, I would be a dick back and tell him that unless he complies with the original offer, you're gona turn him in, pretty simple... He not only committed a crime, he committed a federal crime. Or, just turn his ass in. [Beer]
Edit:
I would actually (after thinking about it) tell him he needs to send you your money back, and you will send him his parts back (through an FFL)... You knowingly kept the receiver... Or, just turn him in and file a police report about an illegal firearm transfer. I don't know if the police will deal with that, but I'm guessing that someone here has the number of one of the local ATF agents that would be glad to help you out.
This. If he sent you a receiver, whether it is functioning or not, he committed a felony. Did you notice that the second pic isn't the correct stock even, so thats another photo that he stole from somewhere.
Demand your money back immediately, sending him the snippet that Spyder posted about illegal transfers and threatening to turn him in. Then, after you get your money back, call the local friendly ATF and give them the entire story. They may prefer to just come pickup the parts/firearm as it was illegally transferred, hard to say (though I have heard of the ATF confiscating firearms before under similar situations).
Either way, you may be out of your money if he doesn't send it, but at least you won't be going to federal-pound-me-in-the-ass prison. And thats a good thing. [Tooth]
BlasterBob
11-03-2012, 11:23
If you make it known that someone has violated the law and you indicate that unless he does something or gives you something, you will turn him in to the LEO. Could this possibly be considered as a form of "blackmail"??
Just wondering.
Wow, this is quite the can of worms. Not sure how much money you are out in comparison to the items you did receive...but regardless it sounds like this knuckle head that sent you the items stepped on his crank big time. I guess it all boils down to how much effort you really want to put into making this "right".
If I were in your shoes (which I wish I were - as to own an HK21 is oozing with awesomeness) I would want to make this right with the seller first, but it seems like you've exhausted every effort to do so...that being said, now it's a matter of how much of a monetary loss I'd be willing to swallow. Best of luck and definitely sorry to hear about the trouble.
Bailey Guns
11-03-2012, 16:21
Another problem is, now you've knowingly received a firearm in violation of federal law and haven't reported it. (Assuming, in fact, what he sent is an actual "firearm")
In addition, you've admitted to such all over the internet.
Yeah...big can of worms.
Another problem is, now you've knowingly received a firearm in violation of federal law and haven't reported it. (Assuming, in fact, what he sent is an actual "firearm")
In addition, you've admitted to such all over the internet.
Yeah...big can of worms.
You may be correct about this. On the other hand I did go into the police station and told the front manager that a firearm was mailed to me and that I needed to speak with an officer about the situation. They did ask about where he was from and I told them Arizona. They chose not to see me about all of it.
Byte Stryke
11-04-2012, 08:02
You may be correct about this. On the other hand I did go into the police station and told the front manager that a firearm was mailed to me and that I needed to speak with an officer about the situation. They did ask about where he was from and I told them Arizona. They chose not to see me about all of it.
I imagine you might get a polar opposite response at the ATF office.
I imagine you might get a polar opposite response at the ATF office.
You may be correct about this. On the other hand I did go into the police station and told the front manager that a firearm was mailed to me and that I needed to speak with an officer about the situation. They did ask about where he was from and I told them Arizona. They chose not to see me about all of it.
Exactly.
If I go to local police station regarding securities fraud (Even on a silver platter), they will choose not to see me either. Gotta pick the right agency.
Ok guys...just got home from visiting the Denver ATF office. They took at look at the receiver and we discussed. They stated that I have NOT broken any laws by it being shipped to me. They stated it might be different if there were something like 10 shipped to me under these circumstances but just 1 wouldn't be an issue.
On the other hand the seller looks to be in trouble for shipping it to me. Moreover they took note of his email stating that he is "highly knowledgable of the firearm laws as he owns numerous class 3 items."
They did collect the receiver to ship it off to make sure it isn't a MG in and of itself. To my knowledge RDTS never made MGs so I should be good there. The 3 agents I dealt with stated that there is an extremely high chance that it will be returned to me. They stated that they would just run the background check on me at the office at the time is is returned.
As for the sale...the seller is ignoring my emails and phone calls. Probably will have to try taking him to court.
Ok guys...just got home from visiting the Denver ATF office. They took at look at the receiver and we discussed. They stated that I have NOT broken any laws by it being shipped to me. They stated it might be different if there were something like 10 shipped to me under these circumstances but just 1 wouldn't be an issue.
On the other hand the seller looks to be in trouble for shipping it to me. Moreover they took note of his email stating that he is "highly knowledgable of the firearm laws as he owns numerous class 3 items."
They did collect the receiver to ship it off to make sure it isn't a MG in and of itself. To my knowledge RDTS never made MGs so I should be good there. The 3 agents I dealt with stated that there is an extremely high chance that it will be returned to me. They stated that they would just run the background check on me at the office at the time is is returned.
As for the sale...the seller is ignoring my emails and phone calls. Probably will have to try taking him to court.
maybe the local ATF office can have a nice visit and chat with him. hopefully he invites them in for coffee[ROFL1]
maybe the local ATF office can have a nice visit and chat with him. hopefully he invites them in for coffee[ROFL1]
I hope so. Frankly I am reluctant to get another firearm owner in trouble yet with him cheating me I kinda hope this costs him all his class 3 items.
OneGuy67
11-08-2012, 16:00
So...law enforcement DID help you? [Coffee]
Canuckistani
11-08-2012, 16:34
So...law enforcement DID help you? [Coffee]
Let's wait & see if/when he gets his firearm back...
I'm not a betting man, but I'm guessing it's not coming back.
Byte Stryke
11-08-2012, 17:32
I think it will come back as long as he remains civil with the agents.
fer chrissake don't start the "I PAY YER SALARY!" stuff... even if you took the issue to court after that your receiver would be "mis-cataloged".
Glad that you got the help needed. Hope the seller give you the $ back.
Looking forward for update.
Let's wait & see if/when he gets his firearm back...
I'm not a betting man, but I'm guessing it's not coming back.
You might be surprised what will be returned to you.
I'm not a betting man, but I'm guessing it's not coming back.
Three agents all stated that unless it is found to be a MG there isn't any reason I wouldn't get it back. They stated that other than checking on this they would have just handed it back to me there and then.
They all also stated that it looked like it would be a really cool gun once I got it all together and everything.
I an fairly optimistic that it is being returned.
JM Ver. 2.0
11-09-2012, 09:53
You should be glad he's gonna get his ass in a sling. It's dipshits like him that give us all a bad name. [Bang]
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