The real issue

[brokenscout]

People in America want a Socialist country and they don't care about the Constitution...At least we have legal weed now...[Coffee]

[USAFGopherMike]

they don't. Don't tread on me. I see a huge burst in followership for the tea party and liberaterians.

[brokenscout]

they don't. Don't tread on me. I see a huge burst in followership for the tea party and liberaterians.
They do? Who is getting a second term?

[sniper7]

Obama already came out and said don't get too excited it is illegal at the federal level. just need more states to follow suit.

[Diesel24]

Obama already came out and said don't get too excited it is illegal at the federal level. just need more states to follow suit.

This.

[theGinsue]

they don't. Don't tread on me. I see a huge burst in followership for the tea party and liberaterians.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

[Aloha_Shooter]

they don't. Don't tread on me. I see a huge burst in followership for the tea party and liberaterians.

Unfortunately, fiscally irresponsible Republicans and all Democrats will portray this is a repudiation of the Tea Party message and the increasing fracture of non-Socialist voters will make any fight against Stalinism and Obamaism less and less effective.

The nation has spoken: weed, gay marriage, taxpayer-funded contraceptives, racial alliances and feeling good are more important than the Constitution or national budget.

[Bailey Guns]

Unfortunately, fiscally irresponsible Republicans and all Democrats will portray this is a repudiation of the Tea Party message and the increasing fracture of non-Socialist voters will make any fight against Stalinism and Obamaism less and less effective.

The nation has spoken: weed, gay marriage, taxpayer-funded contraceptives, racial alliances and feeling good are more important than the Constitution or national budget.

Yesterday, I would've disagreed with you wholeheartedly on this. Today, I have to say, you're right.

The Tea Party's message of liberty, freedom, smaller government and fiscal responsibility was totally irrelevant in this election. And I see absolutely no hope that will change.

America has changed course. Simple as that. And it's very sad.

[BPTactical]

The real reason is the stupid and selfish outnumber those that put country first.


The stupid have spoken.

[JohnTRourke]

Yesterday, I would've disagreed with you wholeheartedly on this. Today, I have to say, you're right.

The Tea Party's message of liberty, freedom, smaller government and fiscal responsibility was totally irrelevant in this election. And I see absolutely no hope that will change.

America has changed course. Simple as that. And it's very sad.

exactly
It's over (well, it's been over, it's over now should be obvious to everyone)

STOP FEEDING THE BEAST!!!

Oh yeah, if we're going this way, WHERE IS MY FREE SHIT??????

[Aloha_Shooter]

I don't think the country is completely, irredeemably over but last night showed we have dug deeper into the hole. The contest shouldn't have been close even with a mediocre candidate (and while Romney was no Reagan, he's also wasn't John McCain or Bob Dole). The GOP appealed to reason (with some exceptions) and the Democrats appealed to emotion while Libertarians laced emotion with some reason to appeal to the small minority willing to be ineffective in order to make a statement about a Third Way. Pure emotion won out. It doesn't matter what they do, what lies they tell, however much they ascribe their own actions and motives to their opponents, the Democrats have nearly perfected an appeal to emotions that outweighs everything else.

The problem I see is that we have an increasingly stupid, uneducated populace who lack critical thinking skills and buy whatever diatribe makes them feel good. It's not about race or gender but whether people can look at a set of facts, ask critical questions, throw out the spin and come to a reasoned conclusion. We no longer teach those skills in school and the NEA fights any effort to do so.

Unfortunately, there's no way to implement the Atlas Shrugged scenario -- even assuming you could convince some people to vacate their positions of prestige or comfort -- so even if one wanted to abandon it all, there's no free place to go to.

[roberth]

I don't think the country is completely, irredeemably over but last night showed we have dug deeper into the hole. The contest shouldn't have been close even with a mediocre candidate (and while Romney was no Reagan, he's also wasn't John McCain or Bob Dole). The GOP appealed to reason (with some exceptions) and the Democrats appealed to emotion while Libertarians laced emotion with some reason to appeal to the small minority willing to be ineffective in order to make a statement about a Third Way. Pure emotion won out. It doesn't matter what they do, what lies they tell, however much they ascribe their own actions and motives to their opponents, the Democrats have nearly perfected an appeal to emotions that outweighs everything else.

The problem I see is that we have an increasingly stupid, uneducated populace who lack critical thinking skills and buy whatever diatribe makes them feel good. It's not about race or gender but whether people can look at a set of facts, ask critical questions, throw out the spin and come to a reasoned conclusion. We no longer teach those skills in school and the NEA fights any effort to do so.

Unfortunately, there's no way to implement the Atlas Shrugged scenario -- even assuming you could convince some people to vacate their positions of prestige or comfort -- so even if one wanted to abandon it all, there's no free place to go to.

I said that differently in a different thread.

This is the pitfall of federally funded public education. The government, which is always seeking to grow itself, will train people in the manner that will most likely increase the size of the government.

We see what the government is doing, unfortunately the majority of the population does not.

[Zundfolge]

I don't think the country is completely, irredeemably over but last night showed we have dug deeper into the hole.
I disagree.

The changes that Obama will be able to institute over the next four years will be completely insurmountable within the system (and don't get any ideas about "outside the system" or "direct action" ... we could barely beat an army that lived across an ocean and took a month to resupply troops. I don't see us winning against drones and satellites and the like, especially on their "home turf").



The Supreme Court will be completely taken over by Marxists that make Kagan and Sotomayor look like Originalists.
Obamacare will now never be stopped (that alone kills us).
Several UN treaties (the arms one and Agenda 21) will end up as the law of the land (and upheld by the Marxists in the SCOTUS).
Any attempt to true the vote will be squashed (expect all voter ID laws to be gone soon ... and you don't think at least part of Obama's victory wasn't due to cheating?)
The takers will outnumber the makers in short order (less than 4 years).


No sir, the "last best hope for mankind" just died last night. Its a death that took almost a century to complete (beginning with Wilson and the first Roosevelt) but its good and done now.

[DD977GM2]

they don't. Don't tread on me. I see a huge burst in followership for the tea party and liberaterians.

What election did you watch? [Bang]

[Ronin13]

I feel shame having stood up for this once great nation, it's like my 4 years of service went to protecting people's rights to take and not give back. I guess we learned the true, ignorant nature of Americans- They put abortion, gay rights, women (????) and entitlements before fixing the economy and securing our future (not to mention taking a harder line on foreign policy). [Bang]

[roberth]

I feel shame having stood up for this once great nation, it's like my 4 years of service went to protecting people's rights to take and not give back. I guess we learned the true, ignorant nature of Americans- They put abortion, gay rights, women (????) and entitlements before fixing the economy and securing our future (not to mention taking a harder line on foreign policy). [Bang]

What do you expect, the sheep are doing what they've been trained to do.

Unfortunately for the sheep, they were trained by the wolves.

[hatidua]

I guess we learned the true, ignorant nature of Americans- They put abortion, gay rights, women (????)

If the GOP continues to have those three items be their most prominent talking points, they won't win any more elections.

I voted for Romney, not because I liked him but because I'm not a fan of his opponent. However, if Republicans keep obsessing about what people do in their private lives, the GOP is done and no amount of Koch/Adelson money will win them an election.

Simply getting the white male vote will never again win an election in this country, the demographics have changed.

[Ronin13]

If the GOP continues to have those three items be their most prominent talking points, they won't win any more elections.

I voted for Romney, not because I liked him but because I'm not a fan of his opponent. However, if Republicans keep obsessing about what people do in their private lives, the GOP is done and no amount of Koch/Adelson money will win them an election.

Simply getting the white male vote will never again win an election in this country, the demographics have changed.

I agree... the GOP needs to stop pandering to the far right who believes that you can legislate morals, stop taking a stance on abortion and gay rights, focus on fiscal, and foreign policy issues!

[clark]

We have forsaken our future to our greed. This marks the end of an empire and a way of life.

[dwalker460]

Well we will soon see what happens when the wealthy take their money and move it to other parts of the world.

[Ronin13]

Well we will soon see what happens when the wealthy take their money and move it to other parts of the world.

Thus begins the mass exodus... and those of us in the dwindling middle class will be forced to pay more taxes. Get back to work so you can pay for those who refuse to work! [Mad]

[kidicarus13]

Two centuries ago, a somewhat obscure Scotsman named Tytler made this profound observation:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

[dwalker460]

Not working, likely to close my shop, most "wealth" is already offshore or in non-taxable form, fuck the parasites.

[JohnTRourke]

Not working, likely to close my shop, most "wealth" is already offshore or in non-taxable form, fuck the parasites.

I expect you will see a TON of small business's close in the next two months
Many have been barely holding on, figuring that things will get better (that's always the hope as a small businessman). But this? at all levels?

forget it, close the doors now.

Plus, the tax laws change rather dramatically (for the worse, duh, like always) end of the year.

[Brock Landers]

My two cents: there is a ton to talk about regarding this election result, and I think it is absolutely safe to say that it's time for the GOP to look in the mirror and consider recalibrating its message.

I certainly think that Obama and the Democrats had a vastly superior ground game that helped them win this election. I also acknowledge that it has become extremely difficult in the last few election cycles to unseat an incumbent presidential candidate. Having said that, my opinion pretty much matches those of media commentators who note that the two main challenges for Republicans are demographics and social issues.

President Obama had a 50 point advantage among Hispanic voters (here in Colorado that was a 77 point advantage) and a 12 point advantage among women. Common sense dictates that you cannot win an election with those type of numbers; and this tells me that illegal immigration and abortion have clearly become losing issues for the GOP.

Consider abortion: Roe v. Wade was decided nearly 40 years ago and yet Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock somehow managed to squander two critical senate seats - in solid Romney states - by making controversial and unnecessary statements about this issue. Both of these seats should have been locks. I understand that abortion is very controversial and voters have strong feelings about it, but at what point does it no longer make sense to continue re-litigating this? How many elections does the GOP need to lose before waking up to the fact that the electorate is not on their side?

Gay marriage? Seriously, who gives a shit? How can any conservative find it even remotely appealing to have government involved with marriage in the first place? This election marked the first time that voters have actually approved statewide gay marriage measures, and it's becoming crystal clear that momentum is shifting away from the Republican stance on this one.

I know there has been plenty of talk that the reason Romney lost is that he is not conservative enough. I think this is nonsense. How many true conservatives do you suppose thought, "You know, Romney is not conservative enough - I think I'll sit this one out and see how Obama's second term goes?" I am thinking not very many.

Going forward, I hope that Republicans will focus on the winning issue: the economy. The Republican plan for the economy is the right one, and it's one that the party should be able to win on. My belief is that economic values of voters tend to stay fairly static over time, but social values don't; they change, sometimes very quickly. It's not 1850 anymore, and the GOP needs to take a moment to reassess its position on these distracting issues that are dragging it down. I only hope the party can wake up and make some changes before this emerging Democratic majority grows too large and even harder to chip away at. Lastly, I will mention that I understand I'm basically making a libertarian argument and a lot of what I'm saying will sound blasphemous to conservatives on this forum. These are traditional Republican stances that I'm talking about leaving behind, and abandoning them would be an enormous shift. My counter is this: with the economy being the #1 issue, what's more important - winning elections, or maintaining ideological purity? I will take an electoral win 100 times out of 100.