Better country to live in?

[rtr]

Let's say you want to move to another country that is as free as the US and heading in a better direction than the US. Does such a place exist?

[BPTactical]

WTF?
We are Americans. Our colors don't run.
Only way I leave my country would be in a box.

[CO Hugh]

Dont forget and own firearms including pistols and semi autos.

[CO Hugh]

WTF?
We are Americans. Our colors don't run.
Only way I leave my country would be in a box.

+1

[Aloha_Shooter]

Hmmm ... depends on what you call free. Singapore is heading in a better direction but there is no Second Amendment (or First for that matter). South Africa also has an impressive direction but still has lingering problems from apartheid and no Second Amendment; it can also be dangerous as hell in certain areas (e.g., Johannesburg).

Switzerland is pretty free and probably heading in a better direction BUT is vulnerable to lack of inherent resources, has a high cost of living and is somewhat suspicious of would-be immigrants. Germany seems to be better at keeping their fiscal house in order but is filled with Greens (read "Reds") and is dealing with its own immigration problem.

I suspect you'd be best off in Poland or another former USSR satellite as they still remember how bad Communism was/is. Lech Walesa still cherishes Reagan IIRC. I was impressed with Ireland but they had some rocky financial issues recently so you'd need to be very sure of your own financial stability.

EDIT: For what it's worth, I discourage good Americans from leaving. Don't let the bastards win, get mean!

yid-CW-O9Qw

[Fentonite]

I hate the direction my country is heading. I believe we are past the point of no return, and that the country I love may be dying. I'm sick about it.

But I'm with Bert. I served this country, and I ain't leaving.

Semper Fi.

[MrPrena]

So, basically which country is second best country to live?

I would say countries with less regulation. Security and lower taxes help.

Off of my head , they are:

Singapore
Germany ( higher taxes)
South Korea ( except north is breating down rheir neck)
Monaco
Netherlands ( high taxes)
Taiwan

[Irving]

Do you have a time machine?

[rtr]

No time machine. I want to take my guns (includes some NFA items) with me.

[jackthewall81]

I have herd New Zealand is good.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

http://hansdezwart.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/transforming_abandoned_oil_platforms_into_ocean_mi ni_cities.png

[Dingo]

Not to piss anybody off, but it seemed a little odd to me on election night... all these people saying they're cheesed that Obama won, (as am I) and so they're looking into moving to China/Japan/Singapore etc. I may not like our current president, but I still vastly prefer it to any of the immediate choices... ie, Canada, Mexico, China, Australia (which despite their rough n tumble image, sports some very restrictive gun legislation), Britain, Germany, etc. etc. etc.

Let's not cut our arm off because our hangnail got infected...

[ChunkyMonkey]

^obviously hasnt seen any documentary on zombies. [Tooth]

[MrPrena]

I understand it hypothetical. Immigrating to other country isn't easy at all.
Gotta go through states department, and Get an approval from other country you are immigrating to.

Some third world countries might be easy, but some countries with higher gdp and population density isn't.

Also, some countries might be really easy to Get a work visa, but getting permanent resident status might be ten times harder than
our process.

Finally, we have a different tax law than other countries.
When someone become a legal immigrant to US (I551), they usually do not have to pay taxes to country of their citizenship. They just need to pay U S taxes.
In contrast, we might have to pay taxes to our government when you are
Perm res at other country.
If someone become the citizen of other country like eduardo sevrin ( co founder of Facebook), I guess you don't have to pay taxes here.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but that is what I've heard.

European sports stars do Get Perm res to Monaco often , because they can pay lower income taxes.

[gos]

Hmmm ... depends on what you call free. Singapore is heading in a better direction but there is no Second Amendment (or First for that matter).

WTF are you talking about?

Singapore is a republic with effectively a 1-party system, and the same party has been in power since the country was founded.

Singapore has no freedom of speech, no freedom of the press, no freedom of assembly. (You need a permit to gather 5 or more people together) There are no jury trials in Singapore, a judge hears your case, decides your guilt or innocence, and sentences you, all in 1 session.

Every newspaper you read and every TV show you watch in Singapore has been approved by government censors.

Drug trafficking and firearm possession are punishable by death.

Oh, and the national speed limit is like 45mph. And there's a $10,000 tax to get a permit to buy a car, gas is $8/gallon, and they tax you on engine displacement every year.

Great place to visit for a week or two, I would never, ever live there.

[KestrelBike]

I've been super fortunate to travel to a lot of the world as a tourist and student, and it's been pretty exciting these past couple years that I've "woken" up and begun to realize (too late at age 30) how great this country is. Being a citizen of the US beats the pants out of being a citizen of any other country, any day of the week, a million times over. It really is a blessing.

[Fmedges]

I hate the direction my country is heading. I believe we are past the point of no return, and that the country I love may be dying. I'm sick about it.

But I'm with Bert. I served this country, and I ain't leaving.

Semper Fi.

Kill

[Mazin]

WTF?
We are Americans. Our colors don't run.
Only way I leave my country would be in a box.

Damn right!

[alxone]

no place like home , love it or leave it . im with bert on this ,only way im leaving this place is in a pine box

[mtik00]

I served, I'm somewhat patriotic, but I'd leave if I thought I'd be better off somewhere else. That said, I can't think of any "real" scenario that could cause me to even think about leaving.

The only place I'd go is Amsterdam, because reefer is legal. Oh... wait... :)

[airborneranger]

Not leaving anytime soon.

[palepainter]

As bad as it has gotten, leaving is the last thing on my mind.

[StagLefty]

I have no alternatives because I've never considered leaving . I'm with Bert.

[Great-Kazoo]

I will echo what a client told me nay years ago.
She was a liberal hippy "free thinker" who traveled through europe & africa. As we talked my interest was as usual, intrigued by the countries she visited. Her stories ended with this.
She said no matter where she went and how much did not care for the politics (at the time) she realized that Our country was truly free and a much better place, then anywhere else in the world.

STAND YOUR GROUND, STAND ON YOUR PRINCIPLES AND BELIEF'S

[Musashi]

I will echo what a client told me nay years ago.
She was a liberal hippy "free thinker" who traveled through europe & africa. As we talked my interest was as usual, intrigued by the countries she visited. Her stories ended with this.
She said no matter where she went and how much did not care for the politics (at the time) she realized that Our country was truly free and a much better place, then anywhere else in the world.

STAND YOUR GROUND, STAND ON YOUR PRINCIPLES AND BELIEF'S

I second this. I have traveled all over the world and the US will always be my home.

[MarkCO]

USA!

The collective "we" are right. But the collective "we" are not united. In a nutshell, the conservatives are much like shooting sports enthusists. We want support and promotion for our particular choice, but we will bash another form of shooting sports at the same time. Conservatives, Constitutionalists, Tea Party, Libertarians, etc. all generally oppose what Obama and the 51% voted for. Problem is, "we" were too polite, did not educate enough, etc. "We" need to stop talking about leaving (that is what they want) and start begin vocal about what is wrong. "We" have the PERFECT opportunity to lay the foundation for 2014 and 2016 by telling our liberal friends what is going to happen and providing solutions for improvement. However, I fear that "we" will fracture even more instead of setting aside our minor differences for the benefit of defeating the major differences "we" have with the Obama policies.

Take a look at the potential Dem canidates in 2016. Slim pickins' in the "brown" skin color category, which is what a HUGE percentage of Obama voters voted for. The GOP actually has better choices in the "brown" skin color category. Obama has brought racism back into America and the GOP ignored it. I choose to stay and be vocal.

[rshives]

Keep your heads up. We can't give in, roll over and accept tyranny in any form. Citizens of every country must fight for their freedom and this country has become complacant. It's time for true patriots to write their leaders and express their opinions. We also must teach others what true freedom means.

[sniper7]

I wouldn't go to another country that is for damn sure. now if a state gets stupid like CA or NY and if CO drives itself down the same failed path...then there is a chance I would swap states.

[mahkcod]

I think President Ronald Reagan said it best:

"If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. And this idea that government is beholden to the people, that it has no other source of power except to sovereign people, is still the newest and most unique idea in all the long history of man's relation to man. This is the issue of this election. Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capital can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves."

[Jeff350]

The only thing I would consider would be moving to Montana, Wyoming, Texas or Arizona. No way would I leave the country. I value my right to keep and bear arms much too highly to move anywhere else.

[Diesel24]

I think President Ronald Reagan said it best:

"If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. And this idea that government is beholden to the people, that it has no other source of power except to sovereign people, is still the newest and most unique idea in all the long history of man's relation to man. This is the issue of this election. Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capital can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves."
[Marine]

[Wulf202]

[QUOTE=jackthewall81;722413]I have herd New Zealand is good.[/QUOT
This is my second choice. First choice im staying here third canada, fourth choice California

[Zundfolge]

Keep in mind that one of the main reasons that some of these small havens of freedom can even exist is because the USA is a strong power for good. That is about to come to an end and when it does all those small free countries around the world will be squashed by their less free neighbors (People keep telling me how free Costa Rica is ... once the US is no longer powerful enough to threaten Chavez he's going to walk all over Central/South America and the entire continent will become a Soviet state).

When Reagan called America "The Last Great Hope" he wasn't exaggerating ... once liberty and capitalism die in America they are dead everywhere and humanity will once again return to the condition its been in 99% of its existence where most people live short, miserable lives of squalor and slavery.

[hatidua]

Having lived in Singapore for four years, I find their inclusion by some in a thread ostensibly about freedom to be comical.

[MCarp71]

WTF?
We are Americans. Our colors don't run.
Only way I leave my country would be in a box.

Amen,

I served this country, I was born here! I took the oath to defend our country and constitution against enemys FOREIGN and DOMESTIC! AM NOT going anywhere!

[ANADRILL]

Dominican Republic allows ownership of shotguns, and pistols 9mm and lower. No ARs AKS etc though...

[Jer]

For those considering moving to another country... go VISIT it first. Vacation for a few weeks to get a feel for what it's REALLY like there and then report back. I don't think too many people will be leaving if they took that approach. It's easy as heck when all you've known is the greatest (while admittedly flawed) country in the world and wonder what it might be like in other countries. You'll be quickly amazed by the things we consider basic in the forms of rights and essentials that you simply don't have. Travel abroad and if you find something better for you then congratulations. I'll put money on that not happening though.

[Aloha_Shooter]

WTF are you talking about?

Singapore is a republic with effectively a 1-party system, and the same party has been in power since the country was founded.

Singapore has no freedom of speech, no freedom of the press, no freedom of assembly. (You need a permit to gather 5 or more people together) There are no jury trials in Singapore, a judge hears your case, decides your guilt or innocence, and sentences you, all in 1 session.

Every newspaper you read and every TV show you watch in Singapore has been approved by government censors.

Drug trafficking and firearm possession are punishable by death.

Oh, and the national speed limit is like 45mph. And there's a $10,000 tax to get a permit to buy a car, gas is $8/gallon, and they tax you on engine displacement every year.

Great place to visit for a week or two, I would never, ever live there.

I said it depends on what you call free and that they don't have a Second Amendment or even a First for that matter. The OP asked about better direction; Singapore is definitely headed in a better direction economically than the US. They have a thriving capitalist economy with the freedom to build enterprises. You give up other freedoms (as I said). Most of the world opposes the kind of freedom embodied in our Second Amendment (no surprise, so do the 50% of Americans that voted for Obama) so Singapore is hardly unique in that score.

As I said, I'd rather good Americans get mad dog mean and stay here to fight for our country.

[Canuckistani]

I grew up in Canada, and my family is all from Great Britain. I'm the first generation of my family born in Canada, and I've been to England a few times now.


If anyone thinks that Canada or England are better countries to live in than the U.S.A, I'll gladly kick them in the nuts. It's ridiculous - 95% of the people who fantasize about how great these countries are have never lived there, never mind even visited them.

Nut punts - for all of them.

[KestrelBike]

I grew up in Canada, and my family is all from Great Britain. I'm the first generation of my family born in Canada, and I've been to England a few times now.


If anyone thinks that Canada or England are better countries to live in than the U.S.A, I'll gladly kick them in the nuts. It's ridiculous - 95% of the people who fantasize about how great these countries are have never lived there, never mind even visited them.

Nut punts - for all of them.

Oh come on, what's wrong with complete 24/7 video surveillance everywhere you go? It's for the greater good!!

[nynco]

Oh the irony of many people crying about socialism and socialist healthcare threatening to move to countries that are vastly more socialist than the US. [Tooth]

[Tinelement]

I'm sorry.... but this thread is stupid.

I leave the country for 2 reasons. To sit on a beach, or to rip a new mountain.

I don't care how bad it gets. I'm staying. Plan and simple.

[hatidua]

I said it depends on what you call free and that they don't have a Second Amendment or even a First for that matter. The OP asked about better direction; Singapore is definitely headed in a better direction economically than the US.

You might as well add Beijing to the list. Lee Quan Yew created an interesting society model but to discuss it in terms of personal freedoms is laughable. I dearly hope that your experience extends beyond Orchard & Serangoon Road when trying to push S'Pore as some sort of haven of freedom, because beyond banking & finance, personal freedoms there only occur well beyond Sentosa.

[loveski]

I spent the summer traveling around Europe and visited most of these countries. One of the biggest things I noticed was that I would be very difficult, if not impossible, to enjoy some of the same liberties we enjoy here. I wouldn't leave the US.. That being said. I read an article about richies wanting to start their own little countries with almost no regulation. That might be nice, especially if it were filled with hard working, honest people. Other than that I would try somewhere in the Caribbean or Australia/New Zealand.

[speedysst]

Unfortunately, my research indicated that South Africa, Australia and New Zealand actually enforce their immigration laws and will not let you in unless you can fill a critical shortage job. I looked into trying for citizenship via military service but that was a no-go.

[stevelkinevil]

I am repulsed by the very idea of leaving MY COUNTRY. I served it, not the .gov, I believe in the constitution and am ready to be one of the three percent if it becomes necessary. I am shocked at those here who have suggested abandoning that which your forefathers before you have died to defend.

[nynco]

Why do you guys love your country and somehow loath your gov? Isn't we the people the gov? We don't live under a king. It is skitzo to say you love the constitution but hate the gov. Now granted the way we elect our leaders is broken. But our gov is not a thing if the system was working correctly the gov would be more of a reflection of we the people. Gov is a tool, you can use that tool to build a house or break things. We are supposed to have a system where we the people chose how to use that tool. Sadly that link is broken.

[BPTactical]

Government is a thing. A very obese and broken thing.
"Country" is something within your soul.

[stevelkinevil]

Government is a thing. A very obese and broken thing.
"Country" is something within your soul.

well said, thanks Bert.

[nynco]

so you are an anarchist

[Singlestack]

[QUOTE=Aloha_Shooter;722371South Africa also has an impressive direction but still has lingering problems from apartheid and no Second Amendment; it can also be dangerous as hell in certain areas (e.g., Johannesburg).
[/QUOTE]

Boy is that true; stay away from District 9!!

The US is still the best country in the world, if freedom is your thing. A few allow limited gun ownership (Finland, for example), but not what the US allows. If you go through constitutional freedoms, you will find severe restrictions in most cases compared to the US. Things we take for granted here can get you into BIG trouble overseas.

Singlestack

[buffalobo]

Leave the U.S., hell no, I think the zombie hunting is going to be incredible the next 20 yrs.[Beer]

[mcantar18c]

I would never abandon my country, period.
That said, I have a friend that recently moved to a nice house on the beach in Ecuador that's offered me a job "protecting assets and assisting in in operations" after I ETS (no, it's not drugs or arms or anything else illegal). Getting out of here for a few years and being able to watch how things go from the outside is becoming more and more attractive every day.

[BushMasterBoy]

Abandon the country? I want to abandon the planet!