hostess is closing due to strikes ?

[alxone]

somebody tell me why unions are so great again ??
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/marion_county/hostess-to-close-after-strikes

[Singlestack]

Al,

No, this is good - just ask Bloomberg. It will reduce or eliminate those awful junk food twinkies and ding dongs! Michelle Obama will replace these with wholesome substitutes like hummus and tofu. I can hardly wait![Mad]

Singlestack

[alxone]

Al,

No, this is good - just ask Bloomberg. It will reduce or eliminate those awful junk food twinkies and ding dongs! Michelle Obama will replace these with wholesome substitutes like hummus and tofu. I can hardly wait![Mad]

Singlestack[ROFL1] to keep from crying

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

27% wage cuts over 5 years is pretty tough. I'm pro union but I think I'd rather take those small cuts instead of stanch in the unemployment line. I don't blame the 'union' because more than likely the members voted on it.

[alxone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeS6DvyLScE

[Aloha_Shooter]

I do blame the union because the union leadership are probably those encouraging the workers to "take a stand", knowing it won't hurt the union's bottom line the way it hurts the workers and they can use this incident for more propaganda to rally donations and support behind the union. AFL-CIO and other unions have frequently encouraged strikes that actually hurt the workers knowing the strikes would end up hurting the individual workers' bottom line.

[Lurch]

Nooooooo not the Zingers. Twinkies suck but the Zingers:(

[alxone]

Nooooooo not the Zingers. Twinkies suck but the Zingers:(
no ho-ho's , snowballs , ding dongs , fruit pies or cupcakes

[Lurch]

Uhhhhh the orange snowballs. I wonder if this will effect weed consumption?

[Great-Kazoo]

I do blame the union because the union leadership are probably those encouraging the workers to "take a stand", knowing it won't hurt the union's bottom line the way it hurts the workers and they can use this incident for more propaganda to rally donations and support behind the union. AFL-CIO and other unions have frequently encouraged strikes that actually hurt the workers knowing the strikes would end up hurting the individual workers' bottom line.

Agreed. This then puts more people on UI ,which once again shows the masses how ANTI-UNION, 1% owners destroy the economy and the country. Leftist bs all the way, comrade.

[sneakerd]

Hope all those now-unemployed union workers are happy now!!

[merl]

no worries. someone will buy the brand and start pumping out all your favorite treats under a new recipe. mmmm, sawdust :)

[josh7328]

THIS is why the Mayans predicted the end of the world in 2012. No more sweet, never-expiring, artery-clogging treats. We're doomed.

[JohnTRourke]

the whole story is quite interesting. Hostess was hugely in debt, partially because they had to make the multi-company payments to the different union pension fundsand partially because they way over expanded and was bought by basically hedge funds. They had a deal with all the unions and esp. the teamsters (who represented the most) last fall, then the baker's union which only represents 5000 workers (of however many 10's of 1000's they have) goes on strike. The teamsters are furious, pretty much all the other employees are furious and now the hedgies are going to shut the company down. But they will still have the assets and the names and the recipes. So, they shut the company down, sell off some of the assets to pay the debt the hedgies own and form a new company with most of the existing bakeries, none of the existing contracts, routes, unions and etc and still have the name recognition. Union busting writ large. I gaurantee the new company will be started with a ton of debt, as none of the hediges will have to put up any money.

the baker's union is stupid though. I would not want to be on the bad side of the teamsters.

[SuperiorDG]

Hope all those now-unemployed union workers are happy now!!

Hell yea their happy, they get unemployment for the next four years. Why do you think they had no insensitive to give in Hostess' demands.

[dwalker460]

the whole story is quite interesting. Hostess was hugely in debt, partially because they had to make the multi-company payments to the different union pension fundsand partially because they way over expanded and was bought by basically hedge funds. They had a deal with all the unions and esp. the teamsters (who represented the most) last fall, then the baker's union which only represents 5000 workers (of however many 10's of 1000's they have) goes on strike. The teamsters are furious, pretty much all the other employees are furious and now the hedgies are going to shut the company down. But they will still have the assets and the names and the recipes. So, they shut the company down, sell off some of the assets to pay the debt the hedgies own and form a new company with most of the existing bakeries, none of the existing contracts, routes, unions and etc and still have the name recognition. Union busting writ large. I gaurantee the new company will be started with a ton of debt, as none of the hediges will have to put up any money.

the baker's union is stupid though. I would not want to be on the bad side of the teamsters.


THIS!^^^

The new Hostess will come out in debt, but be lean and mean and non-Union, and instead of payouts to the Unions they will be able to use their revenue to pay down debt and regain marketshare. Sounds like a familiar strategy... wonder where I heard it proposed before...

[MarkCO]

We will see lots of this in the next few years. One of my major clients just told me they are closing 3 of the 4 offices nationwide in the division that sends me work. This division will see about a 65% reduction in employees in that division as well. While they won't say it directly, due to the economy, regulations and Obamacare. This company is a MAJOR company with whom a lot of you probably do business, and your premiums WILL be going up as a result.

[soldier-of-the-apocalypse]

Does this mean the plant at 72nd and hwy85 will close

[Byte Stryke]

THIS!^^^

The new Hostess will come out in debt, but be lean and mean and non-Union, and instead of payouts to the Unions they will be able to use their revenue to pay down debt and regain marketshare. Sounds like a familiar strategy... wonder where I heard it proposed before...

I see what you did there...



when fewer are forced to pay for more, it becomes as self destructive cycle as more of the fewer collapse and become the burden.

[DD977GM2]

hghclsswhitetrsh
This was going to be my reply to your post concerning your pro union stance.


I do blame the union because the union leadership are probably those encouraging the workers to "take a stand", knowing it won't hurt the union's bottom line the way it hurts the workers and they can use this incident for more propaganda to rally donations and support behind the union. AFL-CIO and other unions have frequently encouraged strikes that actually hurt the workers knowing the strikes would end up hurting the individual workers' bottom line.

[glenncal1]

Uhhhhh the orange snowballs. I wonder if this will effect weed consumption?

I don't think it will affect consumption but over the next few weeks when you see hoards of zombie like stoners wondering from 7/11 to circle K to the mini-mart you will know why. They are seeking the last twinkies.............

[StagLefty]

Panic buying on Twinkies-who woulda thunk !!![Rant1]

[ronaldrwl]

Going for a Hostess run to their outlet store. Got to stock up [Lick]

[josh7328]

Crap! Once the weed-zombies run out, what's next?! BRAINS!!???

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

I stand behind what I said. We've been working since June without a wage increase or wage negotiations. We did not strike, never thought about it and never was suggested. It never made the news and it shouldn'tp have, and we are one of the biggest in colorado. We got bi-weekly updates via mail which also included the words of keep working hard, be safe, and represent yourself in a positive manner. The 'institution' of unions get a bad rap, unfortunately the people in some unions give it a bad name. I won't try to convince you to hop on board with me, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[dwalker460]

Its not the weed zombies you shpould be worried about- its the third shift cops who wont be happy when they stop in thier favorite 7-11 and the Twinkies and Sno-Balls arent on the shelf, and the soccer moms who will not have bribe material for the screaming kids....

[josh7328]

Its not the weed zombies you shpould be worried about- its the third shift cops who wont be happy when they stop in thier favorite 7-11 and the Twinkies and Sno-Balls arent on the shelf, and the soccer moms who will not have bribe material for the screaming kids....

This calls for a new SHTF thread. "Post-Hostess Collapse Preps". Shiz's about to get real!

[glenncal1]

This calls for a new SHTF thread. "Post-Hostess Collapse Preps". Shiz's about to get real!

Should have bought 20-30 bags of half price mini-snickers after halloween to have in the house in case the pot zombies wonder in to my neighborhood.

[Zundfolge]

John Galt ain't eatin' Twinkies, that's for sure.

[Ronin13]

I'm curious to know what any LE or FF think about unions, since most LEOs and firefighters I know are glad to have someone in their corner... I know, apples and oranges, but unions are unions.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

I'm curious to know what any LE or FF think about unions, since most LEOs and firefighters I know are glad to have someone in their corner... I know, apples and oranges, but unions are unions.

They are apples and oranges. One type in funded by private sector employees, the other by public. I personally am in the private sector.

[josh7328]

WAIT... LEO's are UNIONIZED?! Looks like I may need to re-assess my post Army career plans. I really don't want any part of a union. I want people to have the risk of being fired. It makes people push themselves to do well and be successful, rather than slacking off and running to the union any time they feel "wronged". The lack of incentive to do well in the Army is my #1 reason to get out. Why would I want to go right back into the same situation of unmotivated leaders and co-workers? Rant over. Back to the twinkie zombies... yeah they suck... and stuff...

[CrufflerSteve]

Maybe Bimbo will step up again. http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/11/16/hostess_liquidation_maker_of_wonder_bread_twinkies _ding_dongs_and_more_filing.html

It's an experience to be sitting in a Mexican bar tuned to soccer with all the players having a big 'Bimbo' on their jersey's. Since it was a rough crowd, we kept quiet.

[Ah Pook]

“They're asking for 27 percent wage reduction over five years,” Bakery and Confectionery Union representative Dennis Howard said. “They're asking for them to almost triple contributions to the healthcare plan, and a plan that is substandard and doesn't have the coverage that they've enjoyed.”

What were middle management, upper management, board of directors and the CEO asked to give up?

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

What were middle management, upper management, board of directors and the CEO asked to give up?


Ssshhhh it's the unions fault remember?

[alxone]

27% wage cuts over 5 years is pretty tough. I'm pro union but I think I'd rather take those small cuts instead of stanch in the unemployment line. I don't blame the 'union' because more than likely the members voted on it.

27% benefits cuts and 8% wage cuts .

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

27% benefits cuts and 8% wage cuts .

Ok sorry, thanks for the correction. Hadn't drank my morning coffee yet. Cheers!

[rondog]

Damn, I'd better get dressed and go to the sto'......gets me some Twinkies before they's all gone!

[brutal]

Seems rather ill timed with the recent weed bill passing.

[sellersm]

John Galt ain't eatin' Twinkies, that's for sure.

So much win!!! Imho, the unions are dinosaurs that need to be put to rest... Thuggery at best, extortion, etc. I've taken more than a 27% increase in benefits cost (how about having NO insurance now?) and more than 5% wage cuts. Why do they have to be so special? Has anyone heard about the banks 'stress testing' 12% unemployment in all of their modeling? Yeah, huge unemployment is coming folks. If you have a job, do what it takes to keep it, and the unions aren't there to help you do that.

All the above was stereo-typically speaking, I know there are exceptions, mmmkay?

[TFOGGER]

The upside is that they'll last forever without refrigeration.

[Byte Stryke]

Seems rather I'll timed with the recent weed bill passing.

you'll time what?

[roberth]

I'll bet there were some bad decisions made by management along the way, this strike threat was just the straw that broke the camels back. Hostess' equipment will be bought by someone with a clue hopefully and if they're smart they'll hire some of these experienced people back, hopefully without the union.

Everyone (manglement and employees) need to understand that the economy is cyclical, up and down, good and bad. Companies need to prepare for both and so do employees, this is called corporate and personal responsibility. The management at my work does not have a clue much beyond 3 months, sure they have a plan but is that plan rooted in reality....NO.

[Rooskibar03]

Local Soopers cleaned out of just about anything Hostess. Not a Twinkie to be found. I did however love the expression on the checkers face when he asked me what's with the hostess purchases and I told him "didn't you hear, the union ran then out of business"

[Drilldov2.0]

6700 union idiots cost the jobs of 18k because they refused to accept the bankruptcy courts' ruling that Hostess could restructure under chapter 11. So they went on strike, and paid the price. For them and 18k total employees. Nice work union idiots! Unions had their time, now it is time for them to be gone.

[gos]

You can't complain about the unions, then claim you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in the same breath.

People should be free to form unions if they choose to do so, and companies should be free to choose to hire union or non-union workers if they choose to do so.

When the two sides disagree, the workers can choose not to work and/or the company can choose to shut down.

Nothing wrong with either option IMO, it's how a truly free market is supposed to work.

--gos

[hatidua]

I briefly considered going out this morning and finding a Twinkie to try as I've never had one (I can't pronounce the ingredients, which is usually my barometer for eat/no-eat). Alas, it sounds like the shelves have been cleaned out. Oh well.

[Drilldov2.0]

Yes, I can. The union shut down a company and lost 12k more workers their jobs. A great, shining example of how unions have no place anymore. I am glad Hostess shut down and the union workers lost their jobs. Hostess has only been in business for 82 years, they must be doing something right. They made a mistake in hiring union.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-box-of-Hostess-Twinkies-/321024827871?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abe9221df#ht_57wt_1129

What do you wanna bet this actually sells?

[Clint45]

The new Hostess will come out in debt, but be lean and mean and non-Union, and instead of payouts to the Unions they will be able to use their revenue to pay down debt and regain marketshare.

They will accomplish this by hiring new employees at a couple dollars above minimum wage, with no benefits, no overtime, no bonuses, and no hope of a raise. It will be like a McDonaldland job that they can fire you from or cut your hours in half at their whim, and lock the gates if the workers decide to unionize again.

[jhood001]

Record breaking corporate profits in the United States in 2011. A company who has had financial issues in the past to the point of filing bankruptcy. These two facts and yet there are people ignorant enough to blame evil unions for the death of your beloved Hostess. Get a fucking clue. Seriously.

There are times when Unions aren't perfect and there are times when they are downright awful. And sometimes, life and business is more complicated than the talking points you heard on talk radio or read in a 50 year old novel.

[brutal]

you'll time what?

Stoopid autocorrect

[nynco]

Glad to see many of you here are not knee jerk against the union guys. They are not perfect but over the last 10 years they have taken over a 25% pay cut while the wallstreet dicks who run hostess extracted all the money they could from it. Its another example of what is going wrong in the nation.

[brutal]

The upside is that they'll last forever without refrigeration.

Urban myth

http://www.snopes.com/food/ingredient/twinkies.asp

[nynco]

Hostess Blames Union For Bankruptcy After Tripling CEO’s Pay (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/11/16/1203151/why-unions-dont-shoulder-the-blame-for-hostesss-downfall/)

BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/11/16/1203151/why-unions-dont-shoulder-the-blame-for-hostesss-downfall/?mobile=nc

What you are seeing is greedy wallstreet fucks breaking the backs of middle class union workers so they can force more Americans to work for slave wages. Nothing but pure greed. The type that is destroying this nation over the long haul.

[rondog]

Already getting those Hostess trucks repainted.....

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/funnies/not-just-another-bimbo-bakeries.jpg

[gos]

Yes, I can. The union shut down a company and lost 12k more workers their jobs. A great, shining example of how unions have no place anymore. I am glad Hostess shut down and the union workers lost their jobs. Hostess has only been in business for 82 years, they must be doing something right. They made a mistake in hiring union.

Wrong. The union didn't shut down the company, the company leadership decided to declare bankruptcy. Neither side should be forced to maintain an employer/employee relationship.

[Richard K]

Hostess Blames Union For Bankruptcy After Tripling CEO’s Pay (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/11/16/1203151/why-unions-dont-shoulder-the-blame-for-hostesss-downfall/)

BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/11/16/1203151/why-unions-dont-shoulder-the-blame-for-hostesss-downfall/?mobile=nc

What you are seeing is greedy wallstreet fucks breaking the backs of middle class union workers so they can force more Americans to work for slave wages. Nothing but pure greed. The type that is destroying this nation over the long haul.

AHHH, I see, it's the fault of the 1% again! (sarcasm) I see it as a case of workers cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[nynco]

No more like the company executives running it into the ground while stealing all the money. They then pawn the pension obligation onto the taxpayers (meaning YOU AND I now pay) and then fire everyone. This use to be illegal to do this with pension obligations. But thanks to pension deregulation, its standard business practice. The Airlines did it before and you and I pick up the tab while the CEO loots the company. Its nothing more than union busting and attacking the workers. The workers took a over 25% loss in pay over the last 10 years. The CEO jerks tripled their pay and you want to blame the union?

[JM Ver. 2.0]

No more like the company executives running it into the ground while stealing all the money. They then pawn the pension obligation onto the taxpayers (meaning YOU AND I now pay) and then fire everyone. This use to be illegal to do this with pension obligations. But thanks to pension deregulation, its standard business practice. The Airlines did it before and you and I pick up the tab while the CEO loots the company. Its nothing more than union busting and attacking the workers. The workers took a over 25% loss in pay over the last 10 years. The CEO jerks tripled their pay and you want to blame the union?

I blame... Awe fuck it, I don't have anyone to blame...

[Danimal]

There are some interesting points here. First off I wonder where the salary numbers given above come from, because they have no legal obligation to disclose compensation for executives. So where did those numbers come from? Second, they had a work force of 32,000 people in 2004 when the originally applied for bankruptcy and they have been steadily closing factories and cutting jobs for the better part of a decade. Could this possibly coincide with the health craze and demonetization of unhealthy food? If you have a company that is cranking out money making a profit, why would you dismantle it? The answer is that you wouldn't. It was going under for some time now and there was nothing that anyone could do about it. They have been privately bought out by other corporations twice since the company filed for chapter 11 the first time and hundreds of millions have been sunk into making it work.

Some of you are saying that it is corporate greed that is sinking it. Funny, it is a publicly traded corporation that has to abide by all the same corporate finance rules that have been put in place since Enron. They cant dismantle it for profit, only to recoup their losses that the companies that bought the debt incurred when the company failed.

Some of you are saying that it was the unions. Unions had a place in our society, and if they are set up right can ensure a major corporation that is doing well is not abusing its workers. That still stands. But what happens when you have a company that is failing? What can a union boss do when the people that you are seeking to protect are producing a product that fewer and fewer people are buying? Nothing, and in fact fighting for wages to stay high will only speed up the inevitable. It is not that the unions killed the company, they just made it happen now instead of three months from now.

If you want to blame anyone blame Michelle Obama and all her health food crap that she has been doing. Blame BO for sinking our country to the point where people dont have money to waste on Twinkies. The company was failing, no one buys Twinkies when they are broke. No one goes out of their way to but them because lets face it, if you are a health conscious person, you know that there is nothing good about them.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

There are some interesting points here. First off I wonder where the salary numbers given above come from, because they have no legal obligation to disclose compensation for executives. So where did those numbers come from? Second, they had a work force of 32,000 people in 2004 when the originally applied for bankruptcy and they have been steadily closing factories and cutting jobs for the better part of a decade. Could this possibly coincide with the health craze and demonetization of unhealthy food? If you have a company that is cranking out money making a profit, why would you dismantle it? The answer is that you wouldn't. It was going under for some time now and there was nothing that anyone could do about it. They have been privately bought out by other corporations twice since the company filed for chapter 11 the first time and hundreds of millions have been sunk into making it work.

Some of you are saying that it is corporate greed that is sinking it. Funny, it is a publicly traded corporation that has to abide by all the same corporate finance rules that have been put in place since Enron. They cant dismantle it for profit, only to recoup their losses that the companies that bought the debt incurred when the company failed.

Some of you are saying that it was the unions. Unions had a place in our society, and if they are set up right can ensure a major corporation that is doing well is not abusing its workers. That still stands. But what happens when you have a company that is failing? What can a union boss do when the people that you are seeking to protect are producing a product that fewer and fewer people are buying? Nothing, and in fact fighting for wages to stay high will only speed up the inevitable. It is not that the unions killed the company, they just made it happen now instead of three months from now.

If you want to blame anyone blame Michelle Obama and all her health food crap that she has been doing. Blame BO for sinking our country to the point where people dont have money to waste on Twinkies. The company was failing, no one buys Twinkies when they are broke. No one goes out of their way to but them because lets face it, if you are a health conscious person, you know that there is nothing good about them.

Don't you ever talk about Twinkies like that again! Twinkies are amazing!

[TEAMRICO]

Gee, where are these highly skilled TWINKIE BAKERS going to go after all the college and special training they have dedicated their lives to?
I'm sure all of them were American born full blooded American Citizens too........

Unions.....nuff said.

Ooh yeah.....hail Dear Leader....

[jerrymrc]

Gee, where are these highly skilled TWINKIE BAKERS going to go after all the college and special training they have dedicated their lives to?
I'm sure all of them were American born full blooded American Citizens too........

Unions.....nuff said.

Ooh yeah.....hail Dear Leader....

I saw some video on the striking workers and a few things came to mind. The first was they really loved there Twinkies..... And the second, well I plead the 5th. http://excoboard.com/forums/26584/user/231465/304115.gif (http://excoboard.com/exco/smilies.php?boardid=26584#)

[Irving]

Hey, what's $2,900,000 divided by 18,000 employees?

People make fun of Bimbo, but they are the largest bakery in the world. They own Wonder Bread, Sara Lee, Entenmann's, Mrs. Baird's, Orowheat, Stroehmann's, Thomas', and Tia Rosa; to name a few.

American's can't take it seriously because of the way it is spelled, but since it is a Spanish word, it is actually pronounced, Beem-bo.

[Mazin]

My Uncle just retired from there a year ago after 42 years of service. It's been a long time coming.

[DD977GM2]

Do you understand the reason unions formed in the first place? Those reasons are outdated as much as using an Apple II for modern computer work.


You can't complain about the unions, then claim you believe in free enterprise and capitalism in the same breath.

People should be free to form unions if they choose to do so, and companies should be free to choose to hire union or non-union workers if they choose to do so.

When the two sides disagree, the workers can choose not to work and/or the company can choose to shut down.

Nothing wrong with either option IMO, it's how a truly free market is supposed to work.

--gos

[Irving]

Did people really clear out all the Hostess products today?

I guess if people will wait in lines two blocks long for Krispy Kreme donuts, why wouldn't they also clean out stores of Hostess products?

[gos]

Do you understand the reason unions formed in the first place? Those reasons are outdated as much as using an Apple II for modern computer work.

Really? You're saying that corporations don't take advantage of their workforce anymore? There are still plenty of reasons for groups of workers to negotiate as a group to gain some leverage versus their employer.

[ChunkyMonkey]

You only need a group bargaining if you are lazy and otherwise not needed. Many of us who work our butt off and raise in rank by achievements and merit hate to be lumped into a group and live by low bar/standard.

[Eggysrun]

Pretty much avoided everything posted here, just gonna comment on the situation itself.

The unions seriously need to get off their high horses and realize that Hostess is NOT going to be the last company, especially unionized companies that are going to have to make some serious cut backs due to tax increases and Obamacare. This is why I hate Unions because they hold on to the very last penny they can give their employees even if it means the company going bankrupt.

Unions in the US need to serious re-evaluate their tactics because with increased taxes coming and Obamacare fucking over a lot of companies if they can't fire people, lower wages or get rid of benefits those companies will die. What good is a union if there's no company to work for anymore?

Unions need to understand that people are not entitled to jobs and businesses that work hard to survive have rights too.

Secondly, there's a TON of unemployed Americans out there. Let those Union fucks walk out and not work, Hostess should fire every single one of those people walking out on their jobs and hire people looking to work.

[jhood001]

You only need a group bargaining if you are lazy and otherwise not needed.

Invested in stocks? Part of a political party?

Simple minds with simple solutions. You've seen it here first, folks.

[gos]

Unions need to understand that people are not entitled to jobs and businesses that work hard to survive have rights too.

Well managed businesses will do just fine, regardless of taxes, unions, Obamacare, or anything else. Businesses do NOT have an automatic right to be profitable.

The free market system is supposed to chew up and spit out the weak links. Hostess, as a corporation, was the slow gazelle in the herd being chased by lions.

People (and businesses) are entitled to whatever they negotiate among themselves. If Hostess couldn't find replacement workers, that's Hostesses' problem, not the union's problem.

Since we have something close to 25 million people out of work, you don't think Hostess could have found a bunch of $7/hour people to squirt cream into twinkies?

[gos]

This article says it better than I can:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/the-free-market-killed-hostess-and-thats-a-good-thing/

[Great-Kazoo]

Well managed businesses will do just fine, regardless of taxes, unions, Obamacare, or anything else. Businesses do NOT have an automatic right to be profitable.

The free market system is supposed to chew up and spit out the weak links. Hostess, as a corporation, was the slow gazelle in the herd being chased by lions.

People (and businesses) are entitled to whatever they negotiate among themselves. If Hostess couldn't find replacement workers, that's Hostesses' problem, not the union's problem.

Since we have something close to 25 million people out of work, you don't think Hostess could have found a bunch of $7/hour people to squirt cream into twinkies?

WHAT??????????????????? Not be profitable??????????????? if i open another business i have every right to be profitable. PROVIDING I can be competitive, have good CS and listen to the customer.
The UNION does not Have a right to blackmail me with threats of picket lines, work slow downs and behind the scene trash talking of my company or product (inferior, NON-Union made etc) Nor does some low life scumbag like jesse jackson have the right to racist or rainbow coalition me in to hiring unqualified people of ANY COLOR.
SAME SHAKE DOWN, DIFFERENT GROUP DOING IT.

Sure we could have hired $7 hr labor. Can they run the machines, fix the conveyor belt, read & comprehend english?? Even a basic employment co has applicants do mechanical & comprehension skill test.

[Singlestack]

Well managed businesses will do just fine, regardless of taxes, unions, Obamacare, or anything else. Businesses do NOT have an automatic right to be profitable.


I truly cannot believe I read this. Businesses do not have a right to be profitable?

You need some basic education, sir. First of all, as a small business owner I'm responsible for making sure that my business stays in business. Not my "community", not my "government", not my "neighbors". Nobody else is awake at midnight working out my cash flow and receivables. Nobody else is making calls, meeting people, or doing anything else to grow my business. Nobody else is working OT when I'd like to watch the Broncos, to meet a deadline for a customer. I have news for you - if I'm NOT profitable, I'm not in business period. Same goes for any other business - if they ultimately cannot be profitable, they go under. You and most liberals seem to labor under the impression that all business ought to be charities and don't have a "right" to be profitable. Profits are how businesses grow. Growth means hiring more employees, making part time people into full time, giving people raises and improved benefits, buying new equipment and supplies, and investing more money in the system for other businesses to grow as well. When businesses are profitable, people are more profitable.

For some reasons, liberals seem to think profits are a "right" - as though it is something that governments can give and take away at will based on their benevolence (green energy under Obama, for example), or regulate and tax (the coal industry under Obama, for example). This is the picking winners and losers mentality, or as Romney said of Obama in the campaign - "picking losers", since Obama doesn't pick winners. For example, GM stands not far from bankruptcy, again.

Your first statement betrays the fact you know absolutely nothing about running a business, since a business owner knows their costs of running a business (" taxes, unions, Obamacare, or anything else") has EVERYTHING to do with running the business. If your revenue doesn't cover the costs, you don't have a business. You either need to figure out how to raise revenue or cut costs (or both) to stay in business. Is your point that a "well managed business" can just ignore costs and everything will work out fine? Or that somehow "well managed businesses" are so incredibly profitable (even though they don't have a right to be profitable, according to you) that none of their costs matter? More ignorance. I'll guarantee you that all successful companies watch the expense side of the balance sheet like a hawk - and that is a big reason why they are successful companies.

At the end of the day, I don't think I'll convince you of anything. More than likely you have had years of brainwashing from college professors and liberal friends/media. One post doesn't reverse that. My only hope for you is you will have the energy and entrepreneurial spirit to start your own business one day and really understand how the USA and free markets work. If you do, I'll guarantee you won't continue to believe what you do, since it can't stand up in the face of reality.

Singlestack

[Rucker61]

WHAT??????????????????? Not be profitable??????????????? if i open another business i have every right to be profitable. PROVIDING I can be competitive, have good CS and listen to the customer.


I think you have a different understanding of that word than I do. Hope, yes. Expectation, perhaps. A right to profitability? I don't think so.

[Byte Stryke]

well now the mechanics that were making $24/ can go make $10/ at Bimbo

and as I understand it, unless you are a shift supervisor, you do not get more than 30 hours a week...

YAY FREE ENTERPRISE!
I cannot WAIT to pay for more medicare and medicaid for other people!

[Great-Kazoo]

I think you have a different understanding of that word than I do. Hope, yes. Expectation, perhaps. A right to profitability? I don't think so.

I have a right as a business owner to expect profitability based upon how good my business model is. Do i deserve to be "Given" profit, no i only deserve to get out of what i and my co-workers put in to it. If i am successful then everyone who works hopefully can share in said wealth. Does the employee deserve the same amount of money and or benefits, i as the capital investor do, no.
Perhaps the wording was wrong, but i expect profit and rightly due it through hard work and diligence. Anyone not involved with my business as co-worker / employe has no right or deserves to reap monetary gain from our work.

[Singlestack]

On other thing bothers me about gos' post: the word "right" Liberals just love to talk about "rights", whether it is an imagined "right to free healthcare" or Sandra Fluke's "right to taxpayer-funded contraception". Where do "rights" come from? Is a "right" a "right" because I say so, because a law says so, or because of some higher-level construct like the Bill of Rights or the Constitution?

In a free society, who or what limits our "rights"? Who or what says "businesses do not have an automatic right to be profitable"? I can find no such language in the Bill of Rights or Constitution, or in any local, state, or federal laws I'm aware of. In fact, the "right to pursue happiness" can absolutely be reasoned to include a right to have a profitable business - since this allows me to better provide for myself and my family - and therefore to "pursue happiness". Yes, prosperity and security most definitely make me happy.

So I challenge Mr gos and the other liberals/socialist/marxists here who subscribe to the notion "businesses do not have an automatic right to be profitable" to step forward and state what authority they have for making such a statement in our founding documents or laws, and clarify if that is just their personal opinion and otherwise unfounded/unsupported. If all they have is their opinion, then I totally reject their suppression of my freedom and right to pursue happiness.

Singlestack

[nynco]

Jim do you know what the term "The Commons" means? Well that does not come free.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I think you have a different understanding of that word than I do. Hope, yes. Expectation, perhaps. A right to profitability? I don't think so.

You don't have a right to anything at all then... Life? Pfft. Fuck that. Liberty? Pfft. No way. Pursuit of happiness? Pfft. Yeah right.

Get the fuck out, bro. A business has every RIGHT to be profitable. Just like you have the right to be a dipshit.

Saying a business doesn't have a right to be profitable is like saying I don't have a right to make money. Which in turn is like saying that you yourself do not have a right to make money.

Based on your logic I would like to quit my job and be a leech. Your leech, to be exact.

I propose that you give me every penny of "profit" you get from your paycheck. That means I get all the money you make above what your bills are... Sound good? No? That's your money? I can't take that? You have a RIGHT to keep that money that you worked hard for? Pot, meet kettle.

[Rucker61]

On other thing bothers me about gos' post: the word "right" Liberals just love to talk about "rights", whether it is an imagined "right to free healthcare" or Sandra Fluke's "right to taxpayer-funded contraception". Where do "rights" come from? Is a "right" a "right" because I say so, because a law says so, or because of some higher-level construct like the Bill of Rights or the Constitution?

In a free society, who or what limits our "rights"? Who or what says "businesses do not have an automatic right to be profitable"? I can find no such language in the Bill of Rights or Constitution, or in any local, state, or federal laws I'm aware of. In fact, the "right to pursue happiness" can absolutely be reasoned to include a right to have a profitable business - since this allows me to better provide for myself and my family - and therefore to "pursue happiness". Yes, prosperity and security most definitely make me happy.

So I challenge Mr gos and the other liberals/socialist/marxists here who subscribe to the notion "businesses do not have an automatic right to be profitable" to step forward and state what authority they have for making such a statement in our founding documents or laws, and clarify if that is just their personal opinion and otherwise unfounded/unsupported. If all they have is their opinion, then I totally reject their suppression of my freedom and right to pursue happiness.

Singlestack

Do you really think that the "right to pursue happiness" is equivalent to "the right to attain happiness"? If so, then we really have no common ground for discussion. If we want to interpret verbiage in the Constitution to our own benefit, then you should should be prepared for apoplexy over the manner in which some would interpret "promote the general welfare" (which, btw, is found in the Preamble to the Constitution - your reference to "pursuit of happiness" is not).

That said, other than the language outlining the right for a business venture to make a profit not being explicitly stated in any of the Founding Fathers' documents, I would have to say that it's my opinion that businesses do not have a right (legally protected, etc.) to earn a guaranteed profit. Feel free to educate me by providing cites that such a right exists. If it did exist, how is it protected?

[trlcavscout]

Really? You're saying that corporations don't take advantage of their workforce anymore? There are still plenty of reasons for groups of workers to negotiate as a group to gain some leverage versus their employer.

Contrary to popular opinion no body owes you shit!

If i start a business and hire you, you are lucky. If you don't like the job go somewhere else.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Do you really think that the "right to pursue happiness" is equivalent to "the right to attain happiness"? If so, then we really have no common ground for discussion. If we want to interpret verbiage in the Constitution to our own benefit, then you should should be prepared for apoplexy over the manner in which some would interpret "promote the general welfare" (which, btw, is found in the Preamble to the Constitution - your reference to "pursuit of happiness" is not).

That said, other than the language outlining the right for a business venture to make a profit not being explicitly stated in any of the Founding Fathers' documents, I would have to say that it's my opinion that businesses do not have a right (legally protected, etc.) to earn a guaranteed profit. Feel free to educate me by providing cites that such a right exists. If it did exist, how is it protected?

But you also don't have a right to tell a business they can't make profit. And to make a business donate it's profit to the leeches.

Are we striking a nerve? Are you afraid for your government assistance program?

[Great-Kazoo]

Jim do know what the term "The Commons" means? Well that does not come free.

Like Commune, Common area, All That We Share What i choose to share with others that deserve it i will. I do not want to be forced by law or mandate to share with those who do not deserve it.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Contrary to popular opinion no body owes you shit!

If i start a business and hire you, you are lucky. If you don't like the job go somewhere else.

Exactly...

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Like Commune, Common area, All That We Share What i choose to share with others that deserve it i will. I do not want to be forced by law or mandate to share with those who do not deserve it.

You'll share your reloading bench with me, right?

[cstone]

Can we all agree that a private business has a need to be profitable? If there is no profit, then there is no business. Human nature is such that very few people will risk their time or treasure without any possibility for something of greater value, i.e. profit.

Every economic transaction is based upon the fact that the buyer and seller each believe they are getting the better end of the transaction. Even when a transaction is conducted at a loss or even up, there is almost always an expectation that the loss will be compensated in some form at a future time in a subsequent transaction.

Corporations begin, conduct business, and die. Life goes on. There are those who will increase and others who will decrease. Other people or corporations will replace Hostess, and the former Hostess employees will become employees elsewhere or become dependent upon other entities such as charitable organizations, family/friends, and/or governments.


Vaya con Dios!

[Rucker61]

You don't have a right to anything at all then... Life? Pfft. Fuck that. Liberty? Pfft. No way. Pursuit of happiness? Pfft. Yeah right.



These rights are enumerated in the Declaration of Independence. No search of that document or the Constitution yields the word "profit".




Get the fuck out, bro. A business has every RIGHT to be profitable. Just like you have the right to be a dipshit.



Perhaps I'm not understanding your definition of the word "right" in this context. Agreement on the definition of key terms in any argument is important. How is the "right to profit" defined, how is it protected, and can you cite examples of where the right to profit was violated and then reinstated? I really don't understand, given that we allow businesses to fail and have mechanisms in place to facilitate that failure (bankruptcy laws, etc.), how that right exists? Sure, we've seen government interaction to protect the existence of businesses such as the bailouts, but those were to protect the country and its people from the consequences of those failures.




Saying a business doesn't have a right to be profitable is like saying I don't have a right to make money. Which in turn is like saying that you yourself do not have a right to make money.



I don't have a right to make money. My company can let me go, at any time, for any reason, no matter how well I've performed, without recompense from that company. No one has to hire me. Or you. I have the ability to be competitive in the workforce, and to give me employer as high of an ROI as I can to keep competitive, but my company can say "even though the sub-business was profitable, we don't want to be in that business anymore. Goodbye everyone". It's happend to me before in high tech.



Based on your logic I would like to quit my job and be a leech. Your leech, to be exact.

I propose that you give me every penny of "profit" you get from your paycheck. That means I get all the money you make above what your bills are... Sound good? No? That's your money? I can't take that? You have a RIGHT to keep that money that you worked hard for? Pot, meet kettle.

[/quote]

That's not my logic, it's yours. As businesses have no right to profit, the poor, working or not, have no right to any else's money, either. You want some profit, go earn it. You want my profit? Put out a tip jar next to your barista stand.

[Great-Kazoo]

You'll share your reloading bench with me, right?

Absolutely, there's a wait for non-members:)
Really time slots are filling up, blue #3 will be up and running later today.

[Rucker61]

But you also don't have a right to tell a business they can't make profit.


I agree. I'm not a business owner, but I'm in business. Go, go, make a profit. Make lots of money. You have the right to try. You don't, IMO, have the right to succeed. You have the hope, the opportunity, hopefully the ability, and the responsibility. In fact, it's the law that a corporation HAS to act in such a way as to maximize profits. That law doesn't guarantee profits, though, as if they were a right. There are exceptions - in some cases, credit card companies are limited in the amount of profit they can make from businesses who use their services to collect payments from their customers. I'll leave the discussion of the morality of such a rule for another time.




And to make a business donate its profit to the leeches.



I don't, no. But the government does, or at least the ability to do so, in the form of taxation and other fees. However, the government doesn't limit the amount of profit a company can make. Make more money, pay more taxes, yes; but you still make more money.


Are we striking a nerve? Are you afraid for your government assistance program?

As my household makes a pretty comfortable living, I'm not taking advantage of any government programs. It's not always about me, though.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Absolutely, there's a wait for non-members:)
Really time slots are filling up, blue #3 will be up and running later today.

I think I had a perfectly good reason for offering a member's only discount... If you'd like, I can just list things with a single price and not pass along a savings to the people of the forum...

I made a whole $5 off the lowers I sold. And, I only made that $5 because I didn't have change for one of the guys and he told me to keep it.

And besides... I'm not going to come leech off your machins like some people would... I'll come bearing beer! And it'll all be yours since I don't drink.

EDIT: Now that I think of it... I didn't even make that. I spent $5 on a sammich and a Go Fast on the way to meet a guy.

[Rucker61]

You'll share your reloading bench with me, right?

Has anyone ever looked into a reloading co-op? I'm envisioning a storefront with a multiple bench setup for use by the members, who don't want or can't have a setup in their domecile, but would like to reload. Maybe offer training and sell components like powder, etc. I expect insurance would be a big hurdle, and perhaps zoning, but I'd be interested in support such a business.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Has anyone ever looked into a reloading co-op? I'm envisioning a storefront with a multiple bench setup for use by the members, who don't want or can't have a setup in their domecile, but would like to reload. Maybe offer training and sell components like powder, etc. I expect insurance would be a big hurdle, and perhaps zoning, but I'd be interested in support such a business.

As long as they don't make a profit, right? [LOL]

[Rucker61]

As long as they don't make a profit, right? [LOL]

Oh, you kill me. I've never said I was against profit; I stated that I don't believe a venture has a right to make a profit, in the same way that we don't have the right to prevent them from profiting, either. Free market and all.

That said, I think co-ops have different rules for how profit is treated than a typical business. I found this at the NCBA:

"About Co-opsA cooperative is a business. Co-ops range in size from small store-fronts to large Fortune 500 companies. In many ways, they're like any other business; but in several important ways they're unique and different.
Cooperatives

Are owned and democratically controlled by their members-the people who use the co-op’s services or buy its goods-not by outside investors; Co-op members elect their board of directors from within the membership.



Return surplus revenues (income over expenses and investment) to members proportionate to their use of the cooperative, not proportionate to their “investment” or ownership share.
Are motivated not by profit, but by service-to meet their members’ needs or affordable and high quality goods or services; Exist solely to serve their members.
Pay taxes on income kept within the co-op for investment and reserves. Surplus revenues from the co-op are returned to individual members who pay taxes on that income."

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Oh, you kill me. I've never said I was against profit; I stated that I don't believe a venture has a right to make a profit, in the same way that we don't have the right to prevent them from profiting, either. Free market and all.

That said, I think co-ops have different rules for how profit is treated than a typical business. I found this at the NCBA:

"About Co-opsA cooperative is a business. Co-ops range in size from small store-fronts to large Fortune 500 companies. In many ways, they're like any other business; but in several important ways they're unique and different.
Cooperatives



Are owned and democratically controlled by their members-the people who use the co-op’s services or buy its goods-not by outside investors; Co-op members elect their board of directors from within the membership.



Return surplus revenues (income over expenses and investment) to members proportionate to their use of the cooperative, not proportionate to their “investment” or ownership share.
Are motivated not by profit, but by service-to meet their members’ needs or affordable and high quality goods or services; Exist solely to serve their members.
Pay taxes on income kept within the co-op for investment and reserves. Surplus revenues from the co-op are returned to individual members who pay taxes on that income."



Since you're anti-profit you'd make a fine Co-op leader. Why don't you invest all your time and money into getting this thing going... [LOL]

If you couldn't tell yet... This is my way of agreeing to disagree. [Beer]

[Rucker61]

Since you're anti-profit you'd make a fine Co-op leader. Why don't you invest all your time and money into getting this thing going... [LOL]

If you couldn't tell yet... This is my way of agreeing to disagree. [Beer]

I don't know enough about small businesses to know if the FFL or insurance requirements would be a business killer. For something like this, what are the friendlier counties along the Front Range?

And I appreciate the politeness, and would be happy to buy you a beer anytime.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I don't know enough about small businesses to know if the FFL or insurance requirements would be a business killer. For something like this, what are the friendlier counties along the Front Range?

And I appreciate the politeness, and would be happy to buy you a beer anytime.
I don't drink beer... or alcohol in general... But I'll take a kidney killing Go Fast Energy drink!

JeffCo is a pretty cool county.

[buffalobo]

Jim do know what the term "The Commons" means? Well that does not come free.

I would doubt the two of you would agree on the definition of "The Commons" on the first try.

[Irving]

This thread is so very disappointing. Singlestack, the line that gos said about companies not having the right to make a profit, is EXACTLY the same thing you keep spouting off about. You are both saying the very same thing, yet you, and Jim, and JM2.0, are all mad about it, because all of you misunderstood what he meant. Businesses do NOT have the right to be profitable, they have to earn it. If business profitability were a right, then every man, woman, and child would start a business at the earliest opportunity.

You are all misunderstanding the way he used the word "right" and flying off the handle looking like idiots and calling him a liberal right off the bat. Take a deep breath and try reading what he said again.

[Singlestack]

I think you have a different understanding of that word than I do. Hope, yes. Expectation, perhaps. A right to profitability? I don't think so.

I see what you mean, from that POV. However, please note that nobody, including me, is suggesting or saying that businesses have some or any sort of guarantee of profitability. Bad or unprofitable businesses should either restructure/change, sell, or go out of business.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

This thread is so very disappointing. Singlestack, the line that gos said about companies not having the right to make a profit, is EXACTLY the same thing you keep spouting off about. You are both saying the very same thing, yet you, and Jim, and JM2.0, are all mad about it, because all of you misunderstood what he meant. Businesses do NOT have the right to be profitable, they have to earn it. If business profitability were a right, then every man, woman, and child would start a business at the earliest opportunity.

You are all misunderstanding the way he used the word "right" and flying off the handle looking like idiots and calling him a liberal right off the bat. Take a deep breath and try reading what he said again.


I see what you mean, from that POV. However, please note that nobody, including me, is suggesting or saying that businesses have some or any sort of guarantee of profitability. Bad or unprofitable businesses should either restructure/change, sell, or go out of business.

That's not true... With the Obamanation in office all a business has to do is ask for a bail out and BOOM! Profit...

See? They do have aright... [LOL]

[brutal]

I'll not comment on this debate per se, and I'm not defending anyone, least of all some nutty liberal, but the term used was "automatic right," and in that context affects much of the follow on debate.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Invested in stocks? Part of a political party?

Simple minds with simple solutions. You've seen it here first, folks.

Nope, don't believe in group bargaining. My self directed IRA is on my properties mostly ever since 1997 stock bubble. I dont belong nor have I ever donated to any parties. Parties are for sheeple like you I guess? Either way, I simply do not believe in union. Your insults are as bad as the union thuggery - and that's why the union aren't gaining sympathy imho.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

http://www.lostrepublic.us/Graphics/Mayday%20wants%20more%20government.jpg

The liquid in the middle should be labled "Government Assistance Program".

[gos]

Irving clarified the point I was trying to make, thank you.

[MrPrena]

This case, i think it is profit equities douche bags who really messed up on management. (as usual)


Profit is important. This is why average joe investors invest. Why would average investors invest in companies like hostess with their hard earned dollars, when they can invest it in Microsoft?!?
However, there are more to it than just profit.

If Profit and Revenue were everything to the company and the investors, Fundemental Analyst would rule the world. Everyone would make millions of dollars on public/private equities by reading their income statement/balance sheets.

[Singlestack]

I'll grant that I may have misunderstood gos, and for that I apologize. That said, I'm still waiting to hear who said companies were EVER guaranteed a profit? In fact, I've never heard that in my entire life. When I read that comment, I read it as someone or some thing was opposed to the notion of companies making a profit. I HAVE, on the other hand, heard that from the nutty left on many occasions - mostly from the socialist or communist camps. Glad to hear that wasn't intended here and not what was being expressed.

[Irving]

I'll grant that I may have misunderstood gos, and for that I apologize. That said, I'm still waiting to hear who said companies were EVER guaranteed a profit? In fact, I've never heard that in my entire life. When I read that comment, I read it as someone or some thing was opposed to the notion of companies making a profit. I HAVE, on the other hand, heard that from the nutty left on many occasions - mostly from the socialist or communist camps. Glad to hear that wasn't intended here and not what was being expressed.

Gos is looking at this from the point of view that management directly the company poorly, you're laying the blame more with the Union. That's pretty much the only difference here, otherwise, you guys seem to feel the same way about business.

I can see why you thought that Gos was repeating that Liberal trash about companies not deserving profits. I just wanted to clarify that one point. Carry on.

[Ah Pook]

You are all misunderstanding the way he used the word "right" and flying off the handle looking like idiots and calling him a liberal right off the bat. Take a deep breath and try reading what he said again.
Seems to be SOP in a lot of threads lately. [Roll1]

[Singlestack]

Bad election out comes can do that! I blame my reaction on my Sociology prof in college - a self-proclaimed redistributionist. He did hate being called either a Socialist or Marxist, but did say ownership of private property was wrong and "evil". I always thought of him as a marxist anyway...

[nynco]

Like Commune, Common area, All That We Share What i choose to share with others that deserve it i will. I do not want to be forced by law or mandate to share with those who do not deserve it.

Well judging by your selfish me first reply, I don't want you to share my roads or my public power lines, my public sewer, my public water lines, my public parks, don't hire ANY WORKERS who use those things or went to public schools either... Since you don't think you or your business should have to pay for them or want to pay for them, please do me/the public a favor and never do anything of the sort. Which might mean you have to leave the country. You don't live in a bubble and those things are paid for by taxes. You have NO RIGHT to a profit. Without the commons you and most all other companies would not exist. So look at it as your patriotic duty to give back for all that you have taken so far.

Those would be things called "The Commons"

[mevshooter]

So businesses do not have a right to profits, then I do not see how unions should have a right to demand a bunch of ridiculous things either.

Two sides of the same coin.

[jhood001]

Invested in stocks? Part of a political party?

Simple minds with simple solutions. You've seen it here first, folks.


Nope, don't believe in group bargaining. My self directed IRA is on my properties mostly ever since 1997 stock bubble. I dont belong nor have I ever donated to any parties. Parties are for sheeple like you I guess? Either way, I simply do not believe in union. Your insults are as bad as the union thuggery - and that's why the union aren't gaining sympathy imho.

My comments towards you were unfair and mean and I apologize for them.

[MrPrena]

Have you guys seen Wonder bread? 2.50 at local grocery chain at most?
How about hostess?
The Hostess delivery guy with huge UPS/FedEx size delivery [milk] truck to small retailers to fill $100-300 orders across Denver metro area?

I am fairly sure there got to be a very thin margin of profit.


At this kinda fast pace economy, whale has to dance and nimble around to diversify in order to survive.

[nynco]

Here is the best explanation of what happened. Basically management cut corners and never innovated. The unions pay level is the same as it was 10 years ago meaning they were taking cuts left and right, while the CEO's who ran it into the grounded gave themselves mega raises. Management never changed the company to reflect the times. They just cut corners, cut workers and never invested in innovation (like healthy whole grain bread). Once again, some CEO jerk was more concerned with lining his pockets than he was with running the company.

http://dailynewsfinder.com/2012/11/17/everything-you-probably-didnt-know-about-the-hostess-brands-story/