View Full Version : FNG A-Holes AGAIN!!
DSB OUTDOORS
11-19-2012, 19:41
Some of you might remember my rant back in February about fraudulent checks and my company. For those who don't I'll sum it up.
Right after Presidents day I receive a call from a check cashing place wanting to know if a check is ok to cash. After they gave me the details it turns out someone got a hold of one of my guy's checks with routing # and account #. Made about 20 or so fake checks trying to cash them at several check cashing places around the metro area.
Lucky for me the banks were closed on Monday. So 1st thing I did Tuesday was close my account. They didn't get a cent of my business funds. But they did cash 17- 18 checks at check cashing places all around town, for a total of around $12,800.00. After closing my account, several police reports, shredding over 1,000 unused checks, filling out a Federal report for every fraud check that presented to the bank 17 - 18, and all my time wasted driving around town doing all of this.
Guess what?? There F*&king Back!!! [Rant1][Rant2] Only 5 fraud checks today, they dated them as of 11/16/12 last Friday, which happens to be payroll day. And the #'s are a big spread. This time if the check #'s are in order. They have made about 115 fake checks all between $550.00 and $750.00 each one!! I'm sure I'll be getting quite a few more very soon.
But again, I caught it right off the bat called the bank so I'm not out any money, but the check cashing places are. And now I get to have all the same fun I did before. [Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang] New account was compromised, close account, more police reports, shred all my new checks, etc. etc. etc.
FU#KING AZZHOLES!!!!!!!![Mad]
How are they getting a copy of your check to begin with?
Also, do you use multiple accounts and only transfer in enough to cover outstanding AP?
My Amex gets compromised every 18 months. Pitb but they are always super great about it.
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Bailey Guns
11-19-2012, 19:57
Just once, I'd chalk it up to "shit happens". But twice? I gotta say I'd be wondering if someone wasn't spreading a little too much info around.
Do these check cashing places have video survaillence?
theGinsue
11-19-2012, 20:12
Any chance one of your employees is behind this?
Any chance one of your employees is behind this?
My thought exactly.
DSB OUTDOORS
11-19-2012, 20:26
Do these check cashing places have video survaillence?
They all have video cameras, the problem is and this is from fraud central, they get guy's off the street, offer them $50, give them a fake ID which they make in the van or what ever, make the fake check to match. And tell them to take the check, Id, in and try to cash it. If the check cashing place say's no they bolt leaving every thing behind. And more than likely go back to what ever state or country the came from. Then they find a new a new person and a different check cashing place.
Any chance one of your employees is behind this?
I'm pretty sure not. Most of my guy's are just labor and can't work the time clock let alone some thing this complex. These bastards are using real check making stock aka paper, computers, color printer, scanner, fake ID knowledge, fake finger prints, laminator, and know the ins and outs of the check cashing places. [Mad]
Any chance one of your employees is behind this?
Someone you are handing checks to are in on it. Employee, customer, someone you know.
DSB OUTDOORS
11-19-2012, 20:33
Someone you are handing checks to are in on it. Employee, customer, someone you know.
What the fraud officer is guessing, is a lot of my employee's use check cashing places. So he's thinking the bad guy's are hanging out and offering my guy an extra $50 or so for his check plus the amount the check is made out for. It's a drop in the bucket for these guys. Like I said last time the were able to cash 17 - 18 within 1 week.
This makes me wonder how difficult it would be to pay your guys with some sort of prepaid debit cards. It seems like that would eliminate a lot of issues...
DSB OUTDOORS
11-19-2012, 20:58
This makes me wonder how difficult it would be to pay your guys with some sort of prepaid debit cards. It seems like that would eliminate a lot of issues...
Winner!! [Beer] My partners are looking into this. I would prefer to do direct deposit, but not all my employees have a bank account. So we'll see what our bank can do for us.
Do you ever mail checks?
Theft from mail is still a decent way to get credit cards, checks, identification documents, and all sorts of other interesting stuff.
You are certainly not the only business being targeted. Have the investigators been able to come up with the parent check that is being used to create the counterfeits? Other than check cashing places, are the checks showing up anywhere else?
This type of crime is definitely an organized business and there are specialist in every aspect. The passers are the bottom of the pool, as you noted. The investigators are looking for the counterfeiters who create the IDs and checks. If the cops can buy their way into these guys they can hook into the real money people who finance the business and take the cut off the top.
Fake IDs and counterfeiting operations are the backbone to a lot of money laundering.
If you and some of the other businesses who have been targeted can offer some buy money to grease the skids into the organization, that may be helpful. Just an idea.
mevshooter
11-19-2012, 21:38
Who do you bank with? Wells Fargo has rewards programs for the businesses who bank with them that offer the same level of account that Wells Employees get. Free cashiers checks and money orders, upgraded interest rates on accts, etc. All you need is direct deposit.
Its a big incentive for people to open bank accts.
DSB OUTDOORS
11-19-2012, 21:49
We do mail checks, but we reconcile the books every week or so. And all is well. So if they are buying our employees checks, their cashing them via fake ID's so not to let on. But this really cracked me up!!
The "Fraud officer" told me that since I was not out any of money directly, I was NOT the victim!! [Dunno] And it was not my place to bring it to their attention. It was the check cashing places that were the victim's and they needed to come forward. WTFO??? He was kinder this time and said if I can obtain one of the fake checks, they might be able to get some finger prints off of it.
Sooo?? Now he want's me to do the leg work for him?? On a slight chance he might get a print?? Don't thing so. I'm giving anyone calling on behalf of a fake check his # and let him do his Job. [Coffee]
DSB OUTDOORS
11-19-2012, 21:52
Who do you bank with? Wells Fargo has rewards programs for the businesses who bank with them that offer the same level of account that Wells Employees get. Free cashiers checks and money orders, upgraded interest rates on accts, etc. All you need is direct deposit.
Its a big incentive for people to open bank accts.
I personally bank with Wells Fargo. But for my Business they couldn't even come close to the service I receive from Colo Buisiness Bank.
hghclsswhitetrsh
11-19-2012, 21:54
That sucks man! I feel for ya!
I personally bank with Wells Fargo. But for my Business they couldn't even come close to the service I receive from Colo Buisiness Bank.
They used to be a client. Great bank.
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dwalker460
11-19-2012, 21:57
I went through this. An Employee of mine used a check cashing place and next thing you know, I have checks out everywhere, killing the account, pissed off vendors everywhere..its a mess. For me, the answer was... Visa "gift" cards. They let you charge the card quickly, some even do it online. The employee gets to use it just like a Visa, and they can get cash if they need to, and if its stolen you can kill it online. The down side is there can be some fees involved, but its a lot safer than checks.
hghclsswhitetrsh
11-19-2012, 21:59
I already had it set up. But a couple years ago my employers made it mandatory for direct deposit.
JM Ver. 2.0
11-19-2012, 22:06
Yep. I know a ton of places that require direct deposit. Sucks, Dave. Sorry to hear you're still dealing with that crap.
ChunkyMonkey
11-19-2012, 22:10
Time to line up your workers 1930s payroll style. So then the hot accountant lady can call them up individually and hands over cash. Don't forget to have the thug looking guards in undersized uniforms guarding the money box.
Identifying a suspect blindly off of a check is highly unlikely. Normally prints are used to positively ID a suspect you have already identified as likely.
Actually, the investigator is correct, the victim/endorser is the entity that takes the loss. Check cashers charge payees to cover their losses and make some profit. Banks usually won't cash checks unless you are an account holder. If you have enough employees to set up accounts tied to debit cards, that is definitely a better way to go. Most large employers have been doing that for years. Small businesses make that difficult because you can't cover the administrative costs to make it worthwhile. There are some payroll companies that will could probably help you. They are able to set up accounts with several smaller businesses to spread the cost out. It still will cost you money, but it may be worth it to avoid having your paper checks floating around.
Nothing is counterfeit proof. If the investigator and cops can't identify the groups responsible, you will be forced to keep changing accounts or find another way of paying your employees.
Criminals can be ingenious and they are definitely persistent.
Zundfolge
11-19-2012, 22:12
Any chance one of your employees is behind this?
I'm pretty sure not.
What the fraud officer is guessing, is a lot of my employee's use check cashing places. So he's thinking the bad guy's are hanging out and offering my guy an extra $50 or so for his check plus the amount the check is made out for.
If they're taking $50 extra to hand their paycheck over to some other person then yes, it's one of your employees that is behind this. They may not be bright enough to pull it off, but they are clearly benefiting from what they know is something shady at your expense.
Identifying a suspect blindly off of a check is highly unlikely. Normally prints are used to positively ID a suspect you have already identified as likely.
Actually, the investigator is correct, the victim/endorser is the entity that takes the loss. Check cashers charge payees to cover their losses and make some profit. Banks usually won't cash checks unless you are an account holder. If you have enough employees to set up accounts tied to debit cards, that is definitely a better way to go. Most large employers have been doing that for years. Small businesses make that difficult because you can't cover the administrative costs to make it worthwhile. There are some payroll companies that will could probably help you. They are able to set up accounts with several smaller businesses to spread the cost out. It still will cost you money, but it may be worth it to avoid having your paper checks floating around.
Nothing is counterfeit proof. If the investigator and cops can't identify the groups responsible, you will be forced to keep changing accounts or find another way of paying your employees.
Criminals can be ingenious and they are definitely persistent.
All of this means you have someone f*ck*ng you over. You need to find the mole and cut the fat. Bank account numbers don't come from no where... They come from someone that you give them to.
Eggysrun
11-19-2012, 22:17
I feel your pain :(
During my 2nd tour in Iraq I dealt with ID theft 4 times from some douche bag hacker from Malaysia.
KestrelBike
11-19-2012, 22:39
Can we just kill all thieves?
Any chance one of your employees is behind this?
this is what I thought. or find out where they are banking and you can be sure the shit starts right there.
What about opening a few different accounts, segregate it so different groups get checks from different accounts? Local vendors/suppliers, employees A-M, employees N-Z, etc. Keep all the money in a fourth account and only transfer into the disbursement accounts enough to cover. Yes, it would be a pain... but if you could narrow down the culprit, it would be very interesting.
However, I wonder why you have to deal with this at all. The company I most recently worked for has 15,000 employees. Yeah, I used direct deposit, but they had a lot of blue collar folks as well. If every time you write a check, it's a risk for it to be copied and counterfeited, it's a pretty scary world.
BushMasterBoy
11-20-2012, 11:11
Whore Hey did it (Jorge)[ROFL1]
Kraven251
11-20-2012, 18:59
There is the other side of it...
What if your employees use check cashing service...just about anywhere. One of these places could have a bad egg. Some places use digital scanners on the checks to record that they were received etc. If someone got their hands on that scan they could do some damage. Chances are pretty high you aren't the only one this happened to either.
I suspect you have someone that has been on your payroll for awhile that uses one of these services and the place that is close to where they live, or on their way home has a shady character working the counter.
DSB OUTDOORS
11-20-2012, 19:27
Ya it's kind of mute point now. Employee or not I have to deal with it. Winter is coming and less hours. A lot will go home to see family in Mexico. Some don't come back. But on a lighter note. [Twist]
2 checks were not payed out by the check places and they are filing police reports. And only 8 have been presented to my bank and denied payment so far. 8 checks two days total $5,000 give or take. Criminal life is good! Azz Holes!! [Rant1]
My bank said they will hold the federal forms for me and fill out the majority of the paper work. I just have to go down and sign them once a week or so. O joy!!
Happy Holiday's!! [Kick3] [Kick2]
Some Motha F$(#s just don't have anything better to do than steal and have no idea how to work for what you want in life anymore.
I know a lot of larger corporations use services like ADP. Granted, there is a cost associated with them. They actually give a lot of hints on how to prevent check fraud on their random PDF's. IE high tech checks, rotating accounts, etc... Google ADP Check Fraud and you'll find a ton of information. They also offer their own debit card... I'd never work for a company that paid me on a card. But that's just me.
Just once, I'd chalk it up to "shit happens". But twice? I gotta say I'd be wondering if someone wasn't spreading a little too much info around.
for real....my buddy had 2 separate cc#s stolen turned out the gas station he would goto had a skimmer
for real....my buddy had 2 separate cc#s stolen turned out the gas station he would goto had a skimmer
Almost 15 years ago, I had a hand held skimmer (mag stripe reader) which I could palm. It came out of a restaurant where the waitstaff were stealing cc's.
Technology is a double edged sword.
Be safe.
two shoes
11-21-2012, 12:50
Any chance one of your employees is behind this?
My thought exactly.
Sounds like an inside job...
Man sorry to hear about this again
That does suck man. Glad I've never had to go through it.
On a side note... one of these days we have to explain to DSB that FNG is an acronym, not an abbreviation. [Coffee]
Byte Stryke
11-21-2012, 18:04
That does suck man. Glad I've never had to go through it.
On a side note... one of these days we have to explain to DSB that FNG is an acronym, not an abbreviation. [Coffee]
be easy on the PFY
:D
DSB OUTDOORS
11-21-2012, 18:44
That does suck man. Glad I've never had to go through it.
On a side note... one of these days we have to explain to DSB that FNG is an acronym, not an abbreviation. [Coffee]
Hay now "J" this is a family forum trying to keep it clean for the sensitive folks here. So Back the F*ck up chuck. [Coffee] That better?? [Beer]
be easy on the PFY
:D
Thanks Guy!! And Happy Thanksgiving!! Hope all is well!
DSB OUTDOORS
11-21-2012, 18:48
Oh ya update. 5 more checks presented to my bank today, all denied funds. Another $3,235.00 the bastards got away with. [Rant1]
Hay now "J" this is a family forum trying to keep it clean for the sensitive folks here. So Back the F*ck up chuck. [Coffee] That better??
Sure. I wasn't sure if you knew the FNG was an acronym for F%$king New Guy, rather than an abbreviation for F#$king.
Oh ya update. 5 more checks presented to my bank today, all denied funds. Another $3,235.00 the bastards got away with. [Rant1]
Damn that sucks. Glad its just time they are taking from you, and not your hard earned money.
It sucks for the check cashing places too... but this is the reason they take such a large percentage! To cover the ones they cash that are fake/stolen.
DSB OUTDOORS
11-21-2012, 18:57
Sure. I wasn't sure if you knew the FNG was an acronym for F%$king New Guy, rather than an abbreviation for F#$king.
Ya, [LOL] I had a feeling this was going to come back to haunt me. Good call! Grant me the power to change titles after their posted that would help. And P.S. Happy Thanksgiving!! [Beer]
DSB OUTDOORS
11-21-2012, 18:59
Damn that sucks. Glad its just time they are taking from you, and not your hard earned money.
It sucks for the check cashing places too... but this is the reason they take such a large percentage! To cover the ones they cash that are fake/stolen.
Pretty sad that people have to stoop so low and pull this kind of crap. Especially around the holidays!
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