Group carbine refresher/coaching day?

[Sticks]

Disclaimer: This will be only for those that have attended KellyTTE's Oct./Nov. basic carbine course, not for some random person wanting to get some training.



Several people that attended KellyTTE's second class expressed an interest in getting together to work some more on what we learned, and there was a general consensus that the Mary Kate module was a huge help with your SO watching you at the different stages and giving critiques.

I for one have a few items that I need to work on, and have several down pretty good that I can assist others with.

Several of us have attended other classes and that provides a wealth of information that can be passed on to others (presuming the student that was taught is doing it right and can articulate how to perform that task to another). It was KellyTTE's class, so we did the things he teaches us, his way. He had a lot of items to cover in 16 hours of range time, so obviously we can't spend extra time focusing on some of the modules that a few may have been struggling with and expect to get through the entire course on time.

There are some variations on a few of the "modules" that he was teaching (not saying his way is wrong - it's just his way) that I was taught by 2 other well respected trainers in the industry that may help others comprehend the method and perform it a bit better. Likewise with the other two classes that I attended in the spring, there were some variations in what they were teaching on the same subject. I'll go into more detail on that in my AAR this weekend.

What I am proposing is that those interested, (lets keep the max at 10) get together to have a refresher/corrective action range day. Again - This will be only for those that have attended Kelly's Oct./Nov. basic carbine course, not for some random person wanting to get some training. If you want to learn what he taught - take one or more of his classes.

The bonus for those that did attend the class will learn a few things from other shooters that have attended professional training courses.

We discuss and pick, say 5-10 different items to work on, and maybe a couple new things for the day and have at it.

First and foremost, what we need is a place to shoot safely out to 100y, can accommodate 10 shooters at once, is not a 2+ hour drive for anyone, and is relatively close to medical aid in case someone has a real bad day. If you know a guy, who knows a guy that will let us shoot on their property, the appropriate waivers can be drawn up, and we will adhere to a "Leave no trace" activity short of lead in the berm, foot prints, and tire tracks. Likewise if you have a private membership at a range and they will allow you the latitude to bring in 9 others for a day - perfect.
-Target stands - COVERED
-Targets - COVERED
-Target backers (sheets of cardboard are not all that difficult to obtain) - COVERED
-Barricades (beg, borrow, or we'll make a couple)
-Shot timer - COVERED
-Staple guns (functioning) and ammo for said staplers. - COVERED
-Clipboard
-Writing instruments
-Any drill specs/score sheets (Kelly handed out a few of what he had)
-Trash bags (contractor type)
-Brass buckets
-2 designated persons from the group to "Take Charge" and keep things moving in a somewhat orderly fashion. I've better things to do than listen to a bunch of stories from the good ol' days, or have this turn into a free for all lead slinging day. The intent here is for everyone to work on the things they had trouble with, or as Kelly would say, "There is no I in Team, but there is a U in Suck." - COVERED

I'm sure we will figure out other items needed as (if) this evolves.

I am also proposing that we don't have all 10 shooting at once. This is a coaching refresher, so half shooting, the other half watching over, switch, rinse and repeat.

Who's interested?

Any additional suggestions other than a clearly defined safety "rule list" that will be adhered to (or you will pack your shit and leave either by majority vote or HMFIC decision)?

[Batteriesnare]

I would be interested, and have all the materials you listed, except for a range for a group that size.

[SuperiorDG]

Good idea Sticks. I have a lot of the stuff listed above, but don't know of a range.

[MAP]

I'd be interested. Let me know what I can do.

Mike

[CO303]

I have materials and can make arrangements for the group at my range. We need to limit the group to 10 or so. We need to make arrangements based on weather. Weekends are probably best.

[Sticks]

I have materials and can make arrangements for the group at my range. We need to limit the group to 10 or so. We need to make arrangements based on weather. Weekends are probably best.
Excellent!

Agreed - Weekends and weather are going to be the limiting factor for date. 9+ you would be an ideal number to keep things rolling.

[CO303]

I'll post my open dates for December tomorrow.

[Sticks]

Well, let's get a list of the KellyTTE students started that want to get on board for this. 8 slots open (presuming CO303 wants to participate), and we'll have another 5 alternates in case the dates don't work out for some.

I'll Edit this post as the "Count me in" posts hit, or people drop out.

ETA - If you are posting as a "Count me in" - please include what you need to work on so we can get that list going as well.

For me ~ Stance, Grip, getting better first shot times that are accurate, recoil control (not getting pushed back in rapid fire).

Sticks
CO303
SuperiorDG
Batteriesnare (http://www.ar-15.co/members/2392-Batteriesnare)
Sawin

[Sticks]

I priced some targets

Item # Qty Price Total Amount
IPSC-CB (https://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=IPSC-CB) 50 IPSC-CB CARDBOARD TARGETS $ 0.58 $ 29.00
PHT-LD (https://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=PHT-LD) 50 COMBAT SHOOTING LONG DISTANCE RIFLE TARGET $ 0.38 $ 19.00
PHT-ST (https://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=PHT-ST) 20 MULTI-PHOTO HEADSHOT TRAINING TARGET Mary Kate 0.98 $ 19.60
Order Total: $ 67.60
Quantities may be a little high for what we are doing, but if we all chip in, then we can split up the leftovers at the end of the day.

[Batteriesnare]

I have all of these......


I priced some targets

Item # Qty Price Total Amount
IPSC-CB (https://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=IPSC-CB) 50 IPSC-CB CARDBOARD TARGETS $ 0.58 $ 29.00
PHT-LD (https://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=PHT-LD) 50 COMBAT SHOOTING LONG DISTANCE RIFLE TARGET $ 0.38 $ 19.00
PHT-ST (https://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=PHT-ST) 20 MULTI-PHOTO HEADSHOT TRAINING TARGET Mary Kate 0.98 $ 19.60
Order Total: $ 67.60
Quantities may be a little high for what we are doing, but if we all chip in, then we can split up the leftovers at the end of the day.

[Sticks]

Cool.

If you are a "Count me in" then we will figure a reimbursement for you at the shoot.

[Sticks]

Forwarded info from CO303 ~ edited for what applies;


The range is in Kiowa. We have several bays at the range. Among them are 6 100 yard mixed use bays, commonly used for combined rifle and pistol. There are some target stands available, however, I have about 30 IPSC stands. Stands aren't a problem.

I also have a couple of hundred ipsc targets on hand. I can make them available at my cost ($.45 each) and no taxes. I have also ordered a 200 each of the CSAT and Mary Kates. I'm not sure when these will arrive. Costs are $.30 and $.50; respectively. Backing cardboard for these is in short supply. We can check with the local home depot for boxes and cut them to shape. This helps keep the cost down.

I don't have any steel or VTAC barricades. I'm looking into buying some steel for my own use. I'll fund the construction of some barricades if someone will help me build them. I have the tools and materials.

The range does not allow non-members (outside of family and friends) as a general rule. However, I am a NRA Certified Instructor and am registered with BLGC to hold classes there. I can reserve a bay for a class. The session would be covered under my instructors insurance policy doing it this way. So that covers that part. That being said, I'll be acting as Chief Range Officer (because my ass is on the line), I would suggest you act as RO. We can rotate shooting cycles. This is easy to do if we run the crew in 2 strings. It will also keep the things moving at a manageable level and gets more eyes on the shooters for technique and safety. For consistency, I would suggest we use Kelly's command system.

As far as the course of fire and exercises; popular vote works. I'm also in favor of incorporating other drills or modifying the existing drills to increase the challenge aspect.

That's what I've got. Let me know what you think. The first day I can see starting is Sunday (25th), IPSC targets only. I've painted some to mirror the CSAT targets already.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.....

Other Info:

No ammo restrictions, but cases and targets have to be policed at the end of the session.

I try to personally collect as much brass as possible because I reload. I know you do as well. Crew members who wish to keep brass can split what hits the ground.

The range is a ways out; it might be best if we meet early and carpool. Saves fuel (expense) and lets us get to know each other better.

My wife, wants to come out and photograph sessions, which would be cool for the board. Don't shoot her, she's a Fed (FDA Investigator) I have video gear to record individual shooters for critique.

Your the "Cat Herder."

Fell free to forward these messages to the others.

Best regards,



OK, so we now have a HMFIC (as stated), and unless there are any objections I'll act as secondary RO/SO. We will need a third to hover (I want to shoot too), we can get someone volunteered (SuperiorDG).

I am presuming his earliest being the 25 is not the day after tomorrow, but Christmas - could be wrong, but I think we all need at least a week's lead time to set this up (ammo, time from work if applicable, spouse approval...).

We are swimming in target availability, and shot up IPSC targets work as backers. Shot timers are covered...screw this, I'll just edit the first post to reflect what we have and need.

If someone has 1 or 2 IPSC steel, speak up. I am going to check on the cost of a 4x8 sheet of AR500 (3/8 or 1/2) through my work. I don't have a CAD program, but I figure we should be able to get 6-8 IPSC (Full and 2/3) out of a sheet and a pile of circles/plates. Might need to do a group buy on this one. Won't be cheap when you factor in steel for the stands. Cutting (plasma) and fabrication I can do - just need templates or a sample stand to duplicate.

[CO303]

I get IPSC metrics (what we used in class) for $45/100. I always have them, so don't order any. If anyone can spare the time, I could use a hand with cutting the Vtac barracades. I'm in SW Denver.

[SuperiorDG]

Okay, so I have one Vtac barricade and probably as many backers as needed if it is on the next 25th. I could also stand in for the stand by RO.

[Sticks]

I get IPSC metrics (what we used in class) for $45/100. I always have them, so don't order any. If anyone can spare the time, I could use a hand with cutting the Vtac barracades. I'm in SW Denver.

I'll have to see what the rest of this weekend holds. Maybe next weekend if someone else has not stepped up.

Okay, so I have one Vtac barricade and probably as many backers as needed if it is on the next 25th. I could also stand in for the stand by RO.

Sounds good.

[Sawin]

Count me in. I have pretty much all Saturdays available and am happy to contribute toward any costs.. I'm also happy to offer a ride for someone in the Broomfield/Westminster area, who'd like to carpool.

[Sawin]

as for items I'd like to focus on, Mary Kate was great and definitely a good one to include, but the malfunction drills, reloading drills, and non-standard shooting positions would be where I'd benefit the most. Shooting on the move is eventually where I'd like to be.

[Sticks]

as for items I'd like to focus on, Mary Kate was great and definitely a good one to include, but the malfunction drills, reloading drills, and non-standard shooting positions would be where I'd benefit the most. Shooting on the move is eventually where I'd like to be.

The last three are areas that I wanted to show you guys some variations on, as well as transition to support side, and support side shooting. We went from Zero to Holy Shit (faster than SuperiorDG was making his splits on the one shot from the ready) on the support side shooting with that Vtac barricade.

Shooting on the move is something we can keep in mind for the extra stuff if we have time.

[Sticks]

We're going to need some 100y NRA rifle targets, and who has the time spec for the 4/100? My Google-Fu is weak this morning.

[Batteriesnare]

We're going to need some 100y NRA rifle targets, and who has the time spec for the 4/100? My Google-Fu is weak this morning.
I have these targets as well. Depending on when the get together is, I'm interested. I'm also happy to RO as needed.

[Sticks]

I have these targets as well. Depending on when the get together is, I'm interested. I'm also happy to RO as needed.

Right now we are fast tracking this. Maybe Dec 2 if we can fill enough slots, and get an agenda put together (a proposal is in the works). I don't know how much lead time CO303 needs to reserve a bay.

Also pondering a meet & greet for interested parties to put the agenda together.

As this is a coaching day, everyone is going to be doing some sort of SO duties for the shooter next to them. We have SuperiorDG and myself for the "HELP!!!!" situations. I think I have something figured out to keep everyone shooting.

[Sticks]

I'd have thought we would have had more interest in this.

Right now we have 5+2 (word of mouth) that are interested depending on when. Still trying to fast track for the 2nd - weather is looking good (low 60's)

Smaller group = more time to work on stuff/more stuff to work on.

[Sawin]

I think 7 guys would be fine this go around. As for This sunday, I'd unfortunately not be able to go. If it were Saturday Dec. 1, or either day the following weekend, I'd be able to, but the 2nd is the one day I can't make it, coincidentally.

[Sticks]

We are not firmed up on the 2nd yet. That end of it is up to CO303 - his access, his decision. We are coming into winter, so we gotta take the good days as we get them - and the 2nd is looking really good.

Having said that, I work outside all day every day so weather is of no consequence to me unless we run into safety issues. I don't care for laying down in the mud, or freezing my arse off unless I am getting paid for it, but if doing so gains me some skills or at least keeps those skills alive, then I will suffer through it.

[SuperiorDG]

Anything new here?

[Sticks]

I'm thinking that we are go for tomorrow. This may change at the last moment. Plan on a sunrise start to dusk.

Everyone that posted interest, please PM me your proper name, email and a phone number you can be reached at. I will contact you to let you know what, where, and when - or if we have to cancel/reschedule.

CO303 has a class going on right now, so I can't get a hold of him to confirm until this afternoon.

SuperiorDG - check your PMs

[SuperiorDG]

Thanks Sticks for putting this together and CO303 for the range time. Looks like we will do this again.

[CO303]

We had a good session today. Thanks to Sticks for planning. S.DG is like the McGyver of targets.

[Sticks]

Absolutely. Getting together with like minded individuals to do some drills to keep up on what we paid a lot of money to be taught, is hella better than just flinging lead downrange.

Thank you again for the invite to the range CO303.

I've got over $2k invested in leaning how to operate my rifle. Foolish to let it go to waste (that's a subtle hit for the others - you paid for the classes you took, use it or loose it).
Gonna have to use my RDS next time. Tired of the whining about the Hubble Telescope[Beer]. I should have swapped out for my 16" middy half way through. She's probably getting jealous what with being drug along 3 times now just to sit in the truck.

We've got winter and the holidays coming up. May not be until 2013 when we put another general group shoot day together. We've some details to work out.

[CO303]

Hey Sticks, next time I'm pulling the suppressor off "Mr. Snarky" just to compete with the blast out of that Surefire break!!!!!!!

[Sticks]

We really should have had you shoot in the middle. Not like SuperiorDG's Battle Comp was soft either.

[CO303]

I'm just trying to be a good neighbor.