Anchored New Safe Down- What a PITA

[BuffCyclist]

Well, I bought a new (and my first) safe yesterday. And by safe I really mean RSC. Tractor Supply had a deal on the Winchester 24 gun safe, and it was good enough for what I needed it for and about as big as I could fit into the closet. After mentioning it to my Fiancee, she agreed and said it'd be a good thing to get now even though we weren't planning on getting one now (but definitely by the end of next year).

Got a friend to help out and use his pickup too. The guy at TS loaded it into the truck bed on its back, so we could slide it out of the bed easier when it got home. Once we got it home, it took all of 10min to get it out of the bed and into the hallway by the closet, which was about 75ft through the house passing over 1 threshold and using a dolly. I had to remove the safe door and then also cut into the door framing of the closet to clear the safe hinges, but it fit perfectly and won't be easy to pry open let alone have room to use any power tools to cut it open.

After sliding it into the closet, I got out the drill and started drilling the first hole into the concrete slab. Took a lot longer than I expected to drill just one hole, but I went to drop the concrete anchor (that came with the safe) into the hole only to find out it doesn't need a 1/2" hole drilled, it needs at least a 5/8" hole. And the holes in the floor of the safe were only 5/8", which means the concrete anchor wouldn't fit through the hole in the floor of the safe. The stupid anchors wouldn't even slide through the safe floor! Were they thinking we'd move the safe into place, mark the holes, move the safe out of the way, drill the holes, install the anchors then pickup the safe and set it down on the anchors? No, I think not! [Mad]

Being eager to start filling it with guns, I decided to run to Lowe's to purchase some real concrete anchors. After talking with a guy about what I needed, he recommended some sleeve things that you drop into a hole and then thread a bolt into them, which forces a cone down and expands some petals into the concrete. Turns out that needs a TIGHT 1/2" hole, not a 1/2" hole drilled with a handheld drill. Whenever I tried to tighten down a bolt, it would thread into the anchor a little, then start picking the anchor up out of the hole. But it won't come all the way out, it stops about 1/2" from the top.

Getting tired but determined, I went BACK to Lowe's to get a new style of concrete and bought what I should have gotten originally (but the stupid salesman told me I didn't need), true concrete wedge anchors. After getting back home and drilling two more holes (diagonal corners of safe), I was able to anchor those 2 corners down. Then it was too late at night to drill the last hole, so I decided to leave it as is for now.

Now that I'm on a work shift though, I'm going to make myself a homemade pin puller. A little 3/8" threaded rod, some 1-2" aluminum rod and a couple of nuts. Hopefully when I get home I'll be able to use that to remove that stupid sleeve anchor, because if this doesn't work my only other option is to drill it out and frankly I doubt I'd be able to drill through something like that that rotates freely. Then my only other option would be to cut a new hole in the floor of the safe, and drill through the concrete and start again which as you can imagine, I sure as heck don't want to do!

I filled it up with guns and gear and love having everything all locked up and out of the way. I also bought a pack of dessicant, but I'll probably need to get a golden rod or something similar to put in there before the summer when I start up our evaporative cooler (which raises the humidity in the house quite a bit).

So, am I the only one that has had this much difficulty anchoring down a safe?

[Colorado_Outback]

Turns out that needs a TIGHT 1/2" hole, not a 1/2" hole drilled with a handheld drill.

Your drill is more than capable, the operator on the other hand... :)

Glad you got it in!

[Great-Kazoo]

So, am I the only one that has had this much difficulty anchoring down a safe?

Sounds like it.

[buffalobo]

Next time you need to anchor to concrete, look into Simpson Set XP(or similar product) and epoxy anchors into place. Much easier and much more forgiving on hole-to-anchor size. Have also used Ramset w/ appropriate washer configuration.

[BuffCyclist]

Your drill is more than capable, the operator on the other hand... :)

Glad you got it in!

Thats highly possible, I've never really drilled into concrete before. At least I bought a proper concrete drill bit...


So, am I the only one that has had this much difficulty anchoring down a safe?

Sounds like it.

Dang, and here I was hoping that I wasn't going to make myself look like a total fool by posting this up. Too late! [facepalm]


Next time you need to anchor to concrete, look into Simpson Set XP(or similar product) and epoxy anchors into place. Much easier and much more forgiving on hole-to-anchor size. Have also used Ramset w/ appropriate washer configuration.

I guess if my makeshift pin puller doesn't work, then I might have to try something like this to get that anchor fixed so maybe I can still use it.

[<MADDOG>]

Use a hammer drill for concrete, and you also need a set tool with drop in anchors.

Depending on your hole, you may be able to use Red-Heads.

http://www.itwredhead.com/product.php?Trubolt-Wedge-Anchor-9

[BuffCyclist]

Use a hammer drill for concrete, and you also need a set tool with drop in anchors.

Depending on your hole, you may be able to use Red-Heads.

http://www.itwredhead.com/product.php?Trubolt-Wedge-Anchor-9

That is exactly what I ended up with, and worked perfectly for the two corners that I got bolted down. I didn't have access to a hammer drill and didn't want to rent one so I was just using a plug-in electric drill, which I figured would work perfectly just wouldn't be as fast as a hammer drill.

I tried finding an example of what I used and got stuck, but I can't find anything similar to it online. It was a smooth cylinder, tapped on top about 1/4" down there was a plug. The bottom was cut into 4 "leafs" that would expand as the plug was pushed down into them.

[jerrymrc]

Were they thinking we'd move the safe into place, mark the holes, move the safe out of the way, drill the holes, install the anchors then pickup the safe and set it down on the anchors? Yes. Or measure everything so that you already had the anchors in place when ya moved it into the closet. just saying. [Flower]

[Whistler]

If it's a drop-in style anchor you might be able to drill out the plug then remove the sleeve. Sometimes tapping the top of the sleeve for a bolt after you drill the plug makes it easier to get the sleeve out. Be patient it's "fiddly" and you'll probably have to move the safe first. All that said if you set two Red Heads and it's in a tight surround, two is probably enough.

[Great-Kazoo]

Dang, and here I was hoping that I wasn't going to make myself look like a total fool by posting this up. Too late! [facepalm]

Not really. if you included your neighbor or family friend who is anti-gun helped than yes, you would. I had an issue with a safe, fortunately it is heavy enough, if they want to haul it out, GFL.

[mcantar18c]

I tried finding an example of what I used and got stuck, but I can't find anything similar to it online. It was a smooth cylinder, tapped on top about 1/4" down there was a plug. The bottom was cut into 4 "leafs" that would expand as the plug was pushed down into them.

Sounds like maybe a female anchor?...

http://www.jumbo.chinafastener.com/ImgProducts/2012/2/20120209020031_X.jpg

[SideShow Bob]

Mason bits and a hammer drill makes drilling concrete so much easier.....also the set tool for the RedHeads.....
The first anchor may be useable, you need to drive the wedge into place before attempting to install the bolt. Try using a rod or smaller bolt as a punch and hammer the wedge into place then try the bolt again.

[BuffCyclist]

Yes. Or measure everything so that you already had the anchors in place when ya moved it into the closet. just saying. [Flower]

Yes, well, hindsight or some crap like that. [LOL] Then again, when we moved the safe into the closet, the only way to get it into the corner was to slide it, so if the red head anchors were already installed, we would have had to lift it vertically and set it down on the anchors.


If it's a drop-in style anchor you might be able to drill out the plug then remove the sleeve. Sometimes tapping the top of the sleeve for a bolt after you drill the plug makes it easier to get the sleeve out. Be patient it's "fiddly" and you'll probably have to move the safe first. All that said if you set two Red Heads and it's in a tight surround, two is probably enough.

Thats kind of what my plan was if I couldn't get my pin puller to work. I rigged up a 15" piece of 3/8"-16 threaded rod, put about a 5" piece of 2" diameter aluminum on it (already had the hold drilled in it), and two nuts with fender washers on the top side. Really hoping a few hard whacks and it will pop out, but I have the carbide drill bits at home if necessary.


Sounds like maybe a female anchor?...

http://www.jumbo.chinafastener.com/ImgProducts/2012/2/20120209020031_X.jpg

It looks exactly like the one in the bottom right, smooth sided, was about 2" long and 1/2" in diameter. Thats what the guy said I needed. Well the first guy said I needed was 4x Tapcon anchors. He handed me some 1.5" long, 1/4" diameter screws and said thats all you need, will be more than enough to hold down anything in concrete. I explained that it was a 500lb safe and he said thats good enough. Luckily, my Fiancee called me at that time and he walked off so I could set the screws down lol.



Mason bits and a hammer drill makes drilling concrete so much easier.....also the set tool for the RedHeads.....
The first anchor may be useable, you need to drive the wedge into place before attempting to install the bolt. Try using a rod or smaller bolt as a punch and hammer the wedge into place then try the bolt again.

I was pounding the anchor above (see pic) very hard into the concrete with a punch and my giant hammer. Even after 20-25 very hard whacks, when I would try to put the bolt in, it would thread a tiny bit and then the anchor would slowly pull up. I should have just put the anchors back when I asked the guy what bolt size it used and he said '3/8"'. I said, yea thats good and all but whats the pitch? He said, that doesn't matter, just a 3/8" bolt. Looking at it, I was able to tell it was a coarse thread pitch, but the packaging didn't say one way or the other.

What stinks the most is that I have to wait until Wednesday morning before I get home and then I'll sleep all day to wake up around 3pm and then get to try my pin puller. If the nights weren't so long right now, I would totally drive an hour home just to try to remove it, then come back to work.

[baglock1]

Mine was a PITA as well. All four holes hit rebar about 1/2" from the depth I needed. Due to the constraints of the location, my only option was to slide it out a little and try again. I guess the rebar was running in the same direction because guess what happened on the next set of holes?

I said to hell with it and shoved the safe back against the wall. I then went out and bought 2 cases of of Old English malt liquor and left them on top of the safe. I figure the bad guys will grab that and leave before dealing with the safe.

Seriously, I ended up having to install the anchors at 45* angles and then installed a steel wedge under the bolt head. I don't like it but it's the best I could come up with short of building a steel frame to go under it (frame bolts to floor; safe bolts to frame).

[BuffCyclist]

Mine was a PITA as well. All four holes hit rebar about 1/2" from the depth I needed. Due to the constraints of the location, my only option was to slide it out a little and try again. I guess the rebar was running in the same direction because guess what happened on the next set of holes?

I said to hell with it and shoved the safe back against the wall. I then went out and bought 2 cases of of Old English malt liquor and left them on top of the safe. I figure the bad guys will grab that and leave before dealing with the safe.

Seriously, I ended up having to install the anchors at 45* angles and then installed a steel wedge under the bolt head. I don't like it but it's the best I could come up with short of building a steel frame to go under it (frame bolts to floor; safe bolts to frame).

Yea, I was afraid I would hit some rebar but got lucky enough that none of the holes hit it. However, there was one hole that i could have sworn i hit a hardened rock or something, because i spent a good 15min drilling through not even 1/4" of an inch, then after that it drilled through very easily.

What I'm taking away from this is that I need to buy a hammer drill. I thought they were really expensive, but after looking online they can be had for less than $100.

[<MADDOG>]

Before you buy one, you may wish to try Home Depot, or your local rental center like Sunstate, United, or Ahern, and rent one. Hate to see you buy one and never use it again.

Hell, check out a pawn shop.

[BuffCyclist]

Before you buy one, you may wish to try Home Depot, or your local rental center like Sunstate, United, or Ahern, and rent one. Hate to see you buy one and never use it again.

Hell, check out a pawn shop.

Yea, well I've been looking for a quality corded drill and a hammer drill would fit that bill (especially since its only about $30 more than the drill I was looking at getting). Only having to drill 1 more hole though, I don't plan on buying it for this specific application.

[Irving]

I don't know, three out of four bolts in a narrow closet sounds good to me.

[Shootersfab]

I used double sided tape on the bottom of mine.... hasn't budged...[ROFL2]

[Inconel710]

I'm surprised your safe didn't come with a sheet of paper showing where to mark the floor. My bedside safe had one.

[BuffCyclist]

I used double sided tape on the bottom of mine.... hasn't budged...[ROFL2]

Ya know, there was a brief moment where I thought about using a combination of epoxy and super glue and JBWeld...


I'm surprised your safe didn't come with a sheet of paper showing where to mark the floor. My bedside safe had one.

Nope, nothing of this sort. Is this commonly included with larger safes? I thought they all had directions like: Move it into place, mark the holes, move out of place, drill.

Update: After sleeping the day away and catching up on some sleep, I used my homemade pin puller and only about 10 taps of it and that anchor pulled right out. Dropped the red head anchor in and bam, it was perfectly secured. Decided to drill the other hole too and popped an anchor in that one, so now its bolted on all 4 sides. Wasn't that difficult, just took a lot longer than I expected and I'm sure a hammer drill would surely have sped things up. But now I know, a hammer drill is mandatory for drilling through concrete [LOL]

Thanks everyone for the tips/advice!