View Full Version : DSLR Recommendation
One Shot
11-25-2012, 09:35
I'm looking to get into an Entry level DSLR camera. I've never owed one before so this will be my first time using a camera with manual settings, changeable lens..etc
Couple people have recommended the Nikon D5000 already. I've also heard its better to get a decent body and save the extra money for good lens.
I will be shooting mostly outdoors, wildlife, pics of the dog and kids, and maybe some sports stuff (nothing professional).
Budget will be hopefully under $800 or so.. says the wife [Coffee]
Let me know what you think
You can't go wrong with Nikon or Canon. I went Canon because most my friends shoot with Canon, so I can borrow their lenses. That was my deciding factor.
Canon has a program where you can get 20% off a refurb by sending in a broken/used/old canon camera. That's prob your best deal for Canon.
One Shot
11-25-2012, 09:54
kwando - if you dont mind me asking, which Cannon did you go with?
I am in the same boat with you oneshot. My budget is a bit less than yours, so I have been thinking about the canon t1i. they come up on craigslist all the time for around $350ish
There's an ad on craigslist in denver for a canon rebel t3I with 2 lenses for $700 and he's looking to trade for "things that go bang".
I bought a sony hx100v for my hunting/outdoors camera. Not a true "full" dslr since you can't change lenses but had all the "pro" features I wanted at the time plus an outrageous zoom (up to 120x). All the standard dslr stuff but you don't have to buy multiple lenses. The zeiss lense is pretty awesome too.
While I have been extremely happy with my sony, I wish I would have bought a canon. They take great photos but best of all, there is a hack out there so you can add custom firmware. Looks like you can do some pretty cool things and add features the camera didn't come with.
I'll see if I can find the ad again...
Here it is
http://denver.craigslist.org/ele/3425844467.html
mcantar18c
11-25-2012, 10:34
I've always been a Nikon fan personally. I loved my D80 and I've heard some pretty good things about the D5100. I'm seriously looking at the D7000 as a Christmas present for the wife (read: almost kindof for me) if I don't find a deal on a gun she likes. If I get hit by a tour bus and sue the company and get a million dollar settlement, a D3x is on my short list.
Bailey Guns
11-25-2012, 10:56
I upgraded last year from a D40 to D7000. Very capable camera...far more than I am as a photographer.
One Shot
11-25-2012, 11:02
I went for a hike and saw some really nice bucks and tried taking pics with my camera phone and missed some really good opportunities to get some good shots...after I showed my wife what I was trying to get pics of and what the quality of the phone pics were... she was convinced we needed a good camera.
I looked at the T3i a bit online and it seems like a good entry level camera and it gets really good reviews. So does the D5000
I think i'm just going to have to go into bestbuy or something today and pick a few up and see how they feel in the hand.
Don't forget about editing software too. Almost everyone uses photoshop but I prefer paintshop, easier to use and you don't have to take a class or read a huge book to learn how to use it.
hammer03
11-25-2012, 11:06
http://dealsea.com/view-deal/80651
I bought a t3i this weekend, same lenses as the above deal, but with a free bag/filter/memory card. I'll probably sell the non-IS lens to bring my total investment down a little, as I probably won't use a 300mm lens with no IS all that often if I have a 250 that is stabilized.
There have been some deals for the t4i with an 18-55 IS lens for around your budget OP.
kwando - if you dont mind me asking, which Cannon did you go with?
I'm a gear whore... Started with a rebel and now I have a 5d mark 3 with 2 L lenses. WAY more than I need but glass keep value unlike rifle scopes. I can sell the lenses for the same if not more that I bought it for.
Camera wise i had the 7d because I take pics of my son and kids move a lot so you need a good focusing system. I recently upgraded to full frame, but I had to buy a lot of gear online cheap and flip them. For instance I bought a 5d with bag and filters for $500, sold the camera for $750 and the misc gear for $100. My 7d I bought for $750 on CL and sold it for $1050.
CL has some great deals, same with forums. POTN (photography on the net) is a canon forum and you can get a very capable camera for that price. It's addictions like firearms, you always want more and the best.
Good lucky, if you want to see how a canon works PM me since you are in aurora
Remember a $8000 camera is not going take the best pics, I've seen awesome pics from great photographers with basic rebels.
I think i'm just going to have to go into bestbuy or something today and pick a few up and see how they feel in the hand.
Rebels are small if you have big hands
I did the Nikon D5100 from Costco with the 18-55mm and 55-300mm lenses for $799.99 to replace my old D100. I'm pretty happy with it. I'm not a great photographer and use a lot of the auto modes. The video is pretty good on it too.
http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/84224/bh-photo-video-canon-eos-digital-rebel-t3i-18mp-slr-camera-w-1855mm-lens-55250mm-is-lens-75300mm-lens-16gb-lexar-class-10-sdhc-memory-card
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_313201_-1
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_276389_-1
Or get these for way cheaper and if you don't get into it you are not loosing much
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_283207_-1
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_283215_-1
One Shot
11-25-2012, 12:00
Sounds like I have alot to learn, not sure the difference between a non IS lens and an IS lens. I'll have to do some reading and some more research. I'm thinking that's Image Stabilizing?
I'm thinking the smaller Rebel T3i would be a good starter since its smaller(wife might appreciate that too) and to get some of the basics down and then I can always sell it and get a different body or upgrade at another time. I'm wanting something that will do HD video as well. I just dont want to limit myself and wish I would of gotten something alittle better.
I've gotten some good responses from everyone, I appreciate the input from everyone!
Aloha_Shooter
11-25-2012, 12:07
1. The advice about getting a decent body but saving your money for the lenses is very good. It's all about how you get light on the imaging sensor (film or CCD). The rest of it is shininess.
2. Can't go wrong with Canon or Nikon but I've seen some very good results from Sony as well.
3. Look at Craigslist for people who are upgrading to the latest models. You can find very very good cameras for less than half the cost of new. Ask them the last time the camera has been serviced or cleaned -- a lot of people ignore this and you get crud buildup on the sensor which will affect image quality.
4. I use the Canon XSi and T2i. I bought the XSi nearly 4 years ago and took wonderful pictures with it in Africa, Greece and Scandanavia. However, I didn't like the kit lenses (17-55 and 55-200) because that 55mm transition point is a pain -- I was swapping lenses like a madman sometimes. I LOVE Canon's 100-400mm IS USM L-series lens -- used it on both cameras in places ranging from Africa to Antarctica. The new sensors on the T2i and up (T3i and T4i) are fantastic at low-light photography. I got simply spectacular photos of night lights reflected on the water in Dublin and got amazingly fast (ISO 6400) low light shots. I keep the XSi as a backup just because I couldn't get much for it today and it's handy to have another body "just in case". I have nothing against Nikon, they're fabulous cameras, it's just that my family has always been Canon ever since my father bought his first F-1 decades ago.
5. Take some classes. I joined the Colorado Photography Learning Group through Meetup and have had some great seminars as well as "expeditions" to take photos. They have a "North" chapter in Denver.
6. My favorite all-around lens right now is the Tamron 18-270. I rarely ever need to swap lenses with that puppy on. It runs around $600-700 on sale at Amazon or Adorama but really is a great all-in-one. My next favorite lens is the 100-400 for long-distance wildlife shots but it's a heavy beast and very very expensive so best you work on skills using something like the 18-270 (Canon and Nikon have equivalents but you'll pay through the nose for them).
Aloha_Shooter
11-25-2012, 12:10
Sounds like I have alot to learn, not sure the difference between a non IS lens and an IS lens. I'll have to do some reading and some more research. I'm thinking that's Image Stabilizing?
I'm thinking the smaller Rebel T3i would be a good starter since its smaller(wife might appreciate that too) and to get some of the basics down and then I can always sell it and get a different body or upgrade at another time. I'm wanting something that will do HD video as well. I just dont want to limit myself and wish I would of gotten something alittle better.
I've gotten some good responses from everyone, I appreciate the input from everyone!
IS is Image Stabilization. I think Nikon calls it VR (Vibration Reduction). Other manufacturers have different names for it but the bottom line is some in-line image correction in the lens to correct for jerkiness in holding the camera. One thing I forgot -- learn to hold your camera like a rifle -- support the lens with your off-hand since it usually weighs more than the camera body these days. Then all you have to worry about is your trigger finger on the button. ;-)
I have some photography videos I downloaded. If you like, pm your email and I'll see if I can send them. (Might be too large of a file). The go over the basics of photography and lighting. How to use the different settings to get the correct exposure etc. Also, basic picture taking (where the subject should be) and how to get different effects. Wish I would have watched it before I bought my camera.
Try to get into it without getting suckered into buying the "kit" lens - all of which are junk. A lens, which has a range of 17-55 or 55-300, is like buying a rifle that claims to shoot both .22LR and .338LM down the same barrel...it's not going to do either one very well. There is no such thing, in photography, firearms, or anything else, in which one single piece of gear does all things well. There never has been, there never will be.
While not a popular suggestion nowadays, I'd strongly suggest buying one single focal length lens and actually learning how to shoot that one lens. Start with a 50mm 1.8, they are inexpensive and you can actually learn about depth of field, how different shutter speeds can be utilized to convey what you are after, Etc. Handing a couple of top cameras and a half dozen lenses to someone that doesn't really know what they are doing is not going to serve any purpose whatsoever.
Don't get caught up in the Nikon vs Canon debate, in 2012, it no longer matters. One of those two adopted FF sensors first but your budget isn't going to access those sensors anyhow so it's a non-issue. It's the Indian, not the arrow.
I love my Nikon 5100. The 3100 is more entry-level. You probably don't need the 7xxx and it's expensive.
Aloha_Shooter
11-25-2012, 12:26
One thing I forgot. Check out the reviews of both camera bodies and lenses at http://www.dpreview.com/ (http://www.dpreview.com). You can learn alot about what to look for by reading their reviews and you'll have a better idea what you're trading off when you go with various lenses. Remember that 50mm or 55mm are rough equivalents to human eyeball perspective in full-frame cameras -- cameras using the smaller sensors have an expansion factor so you'll really want a 35mm lens to get the same effect with the smaller sensor.
mcantar18c
11-25-2012, 12:28
Sounds like I have alot to learn, not sure the difference between a non IS lens and an IS lens. I'll have to do some reading and some more research. I'm thinking that's Image Stabilizing?
Yup, Image Stabilization... for people that want to look like some fancy photographer with a big camera but don't have the skill to use it.
Yup, Image Stabilization... for people that want to look like some fancy photographer with a big camera but don't have the skill to use it.
To grossly generalize, a non-IS lens will be optically sharper than an IS lens with all else being equal. If the shutter speed is so slow as to cry out for IS, you should potentially be reaching for a tripod.
JohnnyEgo
11-25-2012, 12:42
I run a Rebel XTi and a 7D, both of which are Canon crop bodies. The newer Rebels pack a lot of features that were considered high end just a few years back. If you are unsure of how much you want to get into this, that would be my recommendation.
Bodies are expensive and don't retain much value over the years. Quality lenses are even more expensive, but retain value quite a bit. If you decided you didn't care for the hobby, you could get more of your money back with a cheap body and high end lenses then the other way around.
A lot of my gun peers who got into photography the same time I did went with Nikon. In general, Nikon bodies seem to have more features than the comparable Canon body, and the lenses are somewhat cheaper. Canon has a rep for quality glass (L series).
If you like photography, be prepared to spend far, far more in gear than your camera costs. I have a top-of-the-line ballhead* (mounts camera to tripod) that is $550, and requires a corresponding bracket which added another $125 to each camera I use it with. I have a cheap tripod at $180, with the lighter, stronger, and more compact ones going for $600+. Couple that with the cost of lenses commonly north of $1K, and hundreds of dollars in filters, remote timers, flash brackets, etc..., and it is more expensive than NFA.
I really like this stuff, and I put time and money into it. I bought books, attended classes, take photography tours, and belong to photography forums. I enjoy spending an hour at the computer processing shots of my kids, etc... But it's time consuming and a lot of stuff to lug around. Since I often want to be part of family events instead of just documenting them, I mostly use a Canon S95, which is a high-end point and shoot with full manual control and takes photos in RAW format. It does 90% of what my DSLRs do, and fits in my pocket. When I do quick-and-dirty faux product photography for the internet, it is usually what I reach for as well.
*My entry level tripod can do this:
http://www.johnnyego.com/photography/055PROBX/055PROBX_02.JPG
Which is useful for low angle work like getting reflections:
http://www.johnnyego.com/photography/yosemite/ys013.jpg
This is one of the reasons DSLR tripods are so much more expensive then video tripods.
Nikon 5000 here. Got a good deal on a refurb body from B&H Camera. Like it a lot. I am no pro but take a lot of pics. Most of the time the camera is traveling. Very little studio (garage) time. A Nikon 70-300mm VR is probably the most used lens (4'-infinity).
Check out Nikon lens compatibility. The lower end cameras do not have onboard motors, so older lenses will only work manually.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/
http://www.kenrockwell.com/index.htm
I run a Rebel XTi and a 7D, both of which are Canon crop bodies. The newer Rebels pack a lot of features that were considered high end just a few years back. If you are unsure of how much you want to get into this, that would be my recommendation.
Bodies are expensive and don't retain much value over the years. Quality lenses are even more expensive, but retain value quite a bit. If you decided you didn't care for the hobby, you could get more of your money back with a cheap body and high end lenses then the other way around.
A lot of my gun peers who got into photography the same time I did went with Nikon. In general, Nikon bodies seem to have more features than the comparable Canon body, and the lenses are somewhat cheaper. Canon has a rep for quality glass (L series).
If you like photography, be prepared to spend far, far more in gear than your camera costs. I have a top-of-the-line ballhead* (mounts camera to tripod) that is $550, and requires a corresponding bracket which added another $125 to each camera I use it with. I have a cheap tripod at $180, with the lighter, stronger, and more compact ones going for $600+. Couple that with the cost of lenses commonly north of $1K, and hundreds of dollars in filters, remote timers, flash brackets, etc..., and it is more expensive than NFA.
Why try and scare someone with equipment-geek-speak who said they have a max budget of $700?!
Great, you have a pricey tripod, costly software to edit/tweek the photos, lenses "North of $1K", and it's more expensive than NFA. Does that really sound like it's making the hobby appealing to someone that wants an entry level rig in the $700 range?!
It's precisely this type of drivel that makes online photo forums such chest-thumping contests, it serves nobody other than the person listing off all their gear. Sad, and patently amateurish.
Awesome reading and solid recommendations here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/index.htm
(http://www.kenrockwell.com/index.htm)
I run a Nikon body and only two lenses. An 18-200 f/3.5 zoom VR (http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/18200.htm) and an 80-400 f/4.5 zoom VR (http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/80400vr.htm). The 18-240 stays on the camera 95% of the time and is an awesome walk around lens. The 80-400 is the slower, cheaper model, but good for long static shots or slow moving game. I'd like a wide prime (fixed focal length) but it's not a priority.
I started with a kit, bought better glass over time, and sold off the kit lenses for what they cost (if purchased separately.)
I'll come back later with some recommendations, but in the meantime, if you're thinking of ordering online, here's an excellent thread on how not to get ripped off (http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=374) from another forum.
And for your entertainment, here are some storefronts (http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/) that you'll be dealing with if you merely go for the best price.
O2
Ps. Reader's Digest version: Buy from B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/) or Adorama (http://www.adorama.com/).
JohnnyEgo
11-25-2012, 13:21
It's precisely this type of drivel that makes online photo forums such chest-thumping contests, it serves nobody other than the person listing off all their gear. Sad, and patently amateurish.
I am sorry I have offended your sensibilities. If you have some knowledge of photography, you know my gear is decidedly not top end and a little older. I provided the advice and expectations I wished I had when I started down this road. I went into a camera store with $600 and told them I wanted a high end camera. My perceptions were quickly reframed. I want for the OP what I wanted for myself; to make an informed decision on purchasing an expensive item to meet my needs.
I understand that you believe my post to be 'chest-thumping'. My perspective is that for the most part, a lot of people offer opinions with no basis in fact or experience. I value information more when the source appears to have it. It is why I try to provide some credential to what I say.
I think you want to find offense in my post. Per the OP's request, I provided a recommendation (current body Rebel), observations on competing products, and an alternative suggestion for the more common use (S-95, which is under $500, does 90% of what a DSLR does, and is pocketable). Since the OP wants to take outside shots with his DSLR, I provided a post showing what a photography tripod does, and pictures of why that matters. Aside from some sort of internet dick measuring, what knowledge did your post contribute to this thread?
To the OP: If I have offended or intimidated you in making a camera purchase, I apologize.
Try to get into it without getting suckered into buying the "kit" lens - all of which are junk. A lens, which has a range of 17-55 or 55-300, is like buying a rifle that claims to shoot both .22LR and .338LM down the same barrel...it's not going to do either one very well. There is no such thing, in photography, firearms, or anything else, in which one single piece of gear does all things well. There never has been, there never will be.
While not a popular suggestion nowadays, I'd strongly suggest buying one single focal length lens and actually learning how to shoot that one lens. Start with a 50mm 1.8, they are inexpensive and you can actually learn about depth of field, how different shutter speeds can be utilized to convey what you are after, Etc. Handing a couple of top cameras and a half dozen lenses to someone that doesn't really know what they are doing is not going to serve any purpose whatsoever.
Don't get caught up in the Nikon vs Canon debate, in 2012, it no longer matters. One of those two adopted FF sensors first but your budget isn't going to access those sensors anyhow so it's a non-issue. It's the Indian, not the arrow.
Not necessarily. The Nikon 18-55 "kit" lens is a shockingly good starter package $100 lens.
This is a great starter package including the D5100 and this lens. http://www.adorama.com/INKD5100KC.html
One Shot
11-25-2012, 14:21
No offense taken, I appreciate all the feedback!
streetglideok
11-25-2012, 15:07
I was in this boat last year, after being tired of point and shoot cameras. As others have said, there isn't alot of difference between Nikon and Canon, and you can likely throw Sony into that as well. My wife, being not so camera savvy, required me getting a noob friendly camera. I ended up with the D3100 from Nikon, and still use the kit lens. You can get it on sale now, as its been replaced by the D3200. The kit lenses are more than fine for a new shutterbug, but I find myself wanting a wide angle lens, and a telephoto lens now. About all of the big names have a decent entry camera, and will work great. Don't get caught up with the megapixel counts. Even at "only" 14.2mp, I'm getting decent pics. The user, and the lenses will make the biggest difference on the quality of pics you take.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k270/greg197430/GenevaCreekpic.jpg
I was trying to stay out of this but now that the football game is over I'm bored so I will throw my $0.02 into here.. Background - I have had many Nikons (D90, D3100, D7000) and Canons (1D, 5D, SXi, PS95)- I shoot a couple thousand pictures a year (and keep less than a 20th of that). I have had some of my pictures published in some gun makers catalogs and I find some of my AAR pictures being routinely stolen around the net. I am NOT a professional in any way - just an enthusiast.
If I had to choose, right now, a DLSR for under 1k it would be the Canon T4i. Specifically because of the DIGIC 5 processor. The T3i is a *GREAT* choice but it runs the DIGIC 4 - not a bad thing per se but the technology is 3+ years old. Its also the reason I don't have a 7D right now (which is an utterly tits camera but out of the price range your talking about).
The choice between Canon and Nikon is subjective and really comes down to a couple of very small things that as an amateur photographer you wont care about anyway. The issue with Sony is that their images come out massively processed - some people really like that look but its not my style - and their lenses are shit in my opinion.
Just know that whatever way you go your basically stuck unless you want to spend a great deal of cash - or you like to spend time on various photo boards looking for a great deal to trade away your equipment. The reasons I choose Canon may be different than the reasons someone else chooses Nikon -- but know this, there is a reason why a majority of the lenses you see at big events (sporting, paparazzi, political, etc.) are white (Canon).
My biggest suggestion is that you spend lots of time on http://www.dpreview.com/ - their reviews are great and very unbiased. They really liked the T3i - I have shot with it and liked it a bunch as well.
I'll repeat myself - old age does that... Get a simple camera body that has manual override of the automated functions (toss a coin between Canon/Nikon), and buy ONE (1) simple lens, save some money and just get a single focal length lens (not a zoom). When you have truly outgrown that, you will know, based on your needs, what optics need to come next.
My one camera/one lens suggestion isn't a result of being unable to afford more equipment than that, it's a result of having paid the bills with a camera for longer than many forum members here have been alive - www.markpix.com
Great photographs aren't about equipment, they are a result of the person standing directly behind the camera :)
hammer03
11-25-2012, 16:27
Also (if someone hasn't mentioned it yet) swing by a big box store and fondle the cameras. Nikon doesn't seem to fit my hand as well as Canon. Others are the other way around. But they are slightly different shapes, and that may matter to you.
Kraven251
11-25-2012, 16:38
I started with the Rebel XT in 2005, and I loved it and am still using it now. I am looking to get one of the newer Canons with the vibration correction in the lenses etc.
No matter which camera you go for Nikon or Canon, hit up a bookstore and look for the bible on that camera. There are a couple companies that specialize in books for people new to the DSLR market. Usually can find them for under $40 and they help you master the basics and understand all the settings and features of your gear. Most of these cameras will let you take pretty good point and click pictures, but cameras are like firearms. Almost anyone can use one, but it takes training and practice to use it properly. Beyond that your pictures will improve and you will be happier with the results.
One Shot
11-26-2012, 00:10
Went to Bestbuy to finger some of them.. Didn't really like the Nikon D5100 as much as the wife and I both liked the Canon Rebel X4i. Pretty sure were set on it unless something changes. Anything better would be out of our price range. Once we get familiar with this and learn what we do and dont like... we can be more picky and upgrade in a couple years.
centrarchidae
11-26-2012, 00:50
There's nothing wrong at all with going to Best Buy and fingering a camera. However, I would, after deciding what I liked, walk right back out the door and buy from B&H or Adorama or Costco.
Costco if you need to go to a storefront for your own comfort. If you're buying online, Adorama and B&H are both very reputable and dependable and long-established businesses.
Also, another second on http://photography-on-the.net/forum as a place to learn.
At $700, if it were me, I'd make my peace with buying used gear. The good news is, the above two online retailers both sell used and their used gear tends to be in excellent condition.
Someone also mentioned the Canon Loyalty Program at http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/subCategory_10051_10051_-1_29252. The way it works is, you can buy anything in stock at that link, at 20% off, if you trade in a broken Canon camera. A lot of people will buy a broken cheap-ass Canon point-and-shoot off of Ebay for something like five bucks, and trade that in.
Aloha_Shooter
11-26-2012, 08:33
Another point is that you can buy the body without lenses at B&H or Adorama while you can only buy kits at Costco. Contrary to what hatidua said, the Canon 17-55 and 55-250 kit lenses have been highly rated for image quality. Check the tests at dpreviews. However, I will repeat that I found the 55 mm transition point to be a critical one and found myself constantly switching lenses. I prefer zooms that overlap so you don't have one critical transition point where you MUST swap lenses. Buying at B&H and Adorama means you can buy the body and a single focus lens as hatidua recommends or a workhorse like the Tamron 18-270 or Canon 18-135. I grew up in SLR photography with a single 50 mm lens but quickly transitioned to a 28-105 Vivitar One zoom (this was in the "old" days of film so you have to apply that conversion factor for cropped frame sensors). hatidua has paid bills with his photography while I'm just an enthusiastic amateur but I know a number of professionals that use zooms and recommend them for budding photographers.
When you can afford more, the Canon L-series lenses are pricey but just incredible glass for your photography.
You want a Nikon D7000 with a 18-200 and a 35mm 1.8. The 18-200 is a great all around camera lens. the 35 1.8 is great for low light no flash stuff. I have a D7000, the reason I say get that over the D5000 is the amount of buttons. While it seems excessive, once you get how to use an SLR, the buttons can make all the difference. The D5100 has them buried in sub menus which take forever to get to. Also if you are staying at the D5100, don't get the D5000 the sensor is not as good as the 5100. Sensor REALLY is everything in the end.
If you want an amazing pocket camera find a Canon S95 or S100. GREAT sensor in those cameras. The only other better pocket camera is the new Sony RX100 but it costs twice as much as the other two.
If you are rich and money is just an after thought, then get the Sony RX100 and a Canon 5d Mark III. The 5D MarkIII is just insanely good. A friend has one and it makes my D7000 look like a childs toy with the results he gets in low light no flash. But the body for one of those is 3500 and the lens are about 1K each
streetglideok
11-26-2012, 11:14
For someone inexperienced, I would pass on the D7000. It may not be as menu driven, but the OP will be facing a steep learning curve. Look at used, or entry level new. With some new models rolling out, people are selling off the older stuff for new. Borrowlenses.com sometimes has used cameras and lenses for sale, and you can snag a good deal. Also, you may look at Mikes cameras, they appear to have taken over some of the old Wolf camera locations.
Went to Bestbuy to finger some of them.. Didn't really like the Nikon D5100 as much as the wife and I both liked the Canon Rebel X4i. Pretty sure were set on it unless something changes. Anything better would be out of our price range. Once we get familiar with this and learn what we do and dont like... we can be more picky and upgrade in a couple years.
Since you are going with a Canon - I will 2nd hatidua's recommendation for a single prime lens and learning how to use it. The best at your price point is the Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM. I have had lots of glass in the past and I *always* come back to this lens. Don't cheat yourself and get the 1.8 because it is cheaper - the 1.4 is what you want. Its small, light, stupid fast and produces incredible bokeh for those gorgeous portrait type shots that people always want of their dog/cat/kids.
If it was me I would get the body only (vs. body and kit lens) and the Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM. Later you can get a nice telephoto (17-55 or a 70-200 depending on what you need) to go with it and you will have covered 95%+ of all your bases.
I don't know if it has been mentioned as I didn't read the whole thread but Costco has a good deal on the Canon T3i bundle. It comes with the standard 18-55 IS lens as well as a 55-250 IS lens and an 8 GB card. In my opinion this is a great starter package and the 250 lens will allow you to reach out and touch the wildlife.
Just my opinion, but I'm very happy with my Nikon D3100 outift. It'll do anything I want it to do, it'll take any Nikon lens ever made, it's much smarter than I'll ever be, the photo quality is excellent, and on and on. Yes, there's much "higher end" Nikons available, with much higher end prices too. The D3100 has been around long enough that it's now considered one of their "lower-end" models and new kits are priced accordingly. I've noticed they're priced several hundred lower right now than what I paid for mine, because they want people to buy the latest and greatest ones, which doesn't mean they'll take any better photos.
For a good entry-level DSLR that you'll be able to figure out in under a year, and that will most likely do anydamnthing you'll ever want it to do, and then some, I'd recommend you check 'em out. Get the kit with the 18-55mm and 55-200 mm lenses. Those aren't pro quality lenses, for an average Joe you'll never be able to tell the difference.
But one more opinion, you MUST get a good flash to go with it! I use a basic SB-700, which is made to interface with the D3100 and all other Nikons, and it does it very well. Yes, the D310 has a pissant little "pop-up flash", which is very limiting and useless. Get a good flash and learn how to use it, and that alone will improve your photos so much you'll be amazed. I even use mine in broad daylight for lacrosse photos, and the difference in shadow details is very noticeable.
Shot this with my 3100 and a tripod, it freezes lacrosse players and motorcycles just as good.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/nature%20stuff/DSC_0145.jpg
Just buy one of these and get it over with.
http://www.gotashton.com/img/camera.JPG
Aloha_Shooter
11-26-2012, 17:26
Well, if everyone's going to be posting examples, here're some with my T2i:
http://gadget-travels.net/photos/albums/Antarctica%202010/Day%2007%20Port%20Lockroy%20and%20Neko%20Harbor/normal_Antarctica_Day_07_11_Nov_402.jpg (http://gadget-travels.net/photos/displayimage.php?album=14&pos=195)
T2i w/ Tamron 18-270 lens @ 46mm, f/8, 1/250 s
http://gadget-travels.net/photos/albums/Antarctica%202010/Day%2007%20Port%20Lockroy%20and%20Neko%20Harbor/normal_Antarctica_Day_07_11_Nov_544.jpg
T2i w/ Tamron 18-270 @ 91mm, f/9, 1/320 s
http://gadget-travels.net/photos/albums/Antarctica%202010/Day%2005%20Foyn%20Harbor%20and%20Cuverville%20Isla nd/normal_Antarctica_Day_05_09_Nov_426.jpg
T2i w/ Tamron 18-270mm @ 142mm, f/6.3, 1/250 s
http://gadget-travels.net/photos/albums/Antarctica%202010/Day%2005%20Foyn%20Harbor%20and%20Cuverville%20Isla nd/normal_Antarctica_Day_05_09_Nov_136.jpg
T2i w/ Tamron 18-270 @ 270mm, f/9, 1/640 s
... and just for S&Gs since the lens is out of your price range at the moment:
http://gadget-travels.net/photos/albums/Namibia_2012/normal_Namibia_2012_Day_04_331.jpg
T2i w/ Canon 100-400 IS USM @ 400, f/16, 1/640 s
EDIT: I can add links to the full-size pics but 18 MP is a bit large to post to the forum.
Just buy one of these and get it over with.
http://www.gotashton.com/img/camera.JPG
I'm a film guy. Minolta XG-7, do most of my own developing, mostly B&W.
JM Ver. 2.0
11-26-2012, 17:36
Someone call DangerTastic in here....
Goodburbon
11-26-2012, 18:58
We're a Nikon family, but only because we started with a Nikon film camera years ago and advanced to digital and then got more and more professional feature laden cameras as the need arose. My wife is a photographer and is averaging about 4k photos a month now, so shutter life has become the primary driver for camera choice. Her advice for a newcomer is the same as many here. Get a decent body and the best lens you can find. DO NOT shop for lowest price, that's how our CC info got stolen. (by one of the storefronts linked earlier). For simplicity the kits would be fine for starters (Nikon or Canon). As you figure out you photography and want to do it more, you can spend as much as you like on what you really need once you learn what you need. (whether it's low light, high speed, high zoom, or maybe just simply to have a nice camera).
All shot with my Nikon Coolpix L130 which can be purchased for $120 and up on Ebay.
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h403/asrspyder/SANY0705-1.jpg
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h403/asrspyder/DSCN3487.jpg
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h403/asrspyder/DSCN3366.jpg
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h403/asrspyder/DSCN1624.jpg
DownCrown
11-27-2012, 15:29
What about the Sony a57? I ve read a lot of good stuff about it.
Went to Bestbuy to finger some of them.. Didn't really like the Nikon D5100 as much as the wife and I both liked the Canon Rebel X4i. Pretty sure were set on it unless something changes. Anything better would be out of our price range. Once we get familiar with this and learn what we do and dont like... we can be more picky and upgrade in a couple years.
I think the OP has already chosen, y'all are just pissing in the wind. :D
Tinelement
12-06-2012, 11:31
I've been following this thread and researching! Been learning a lot. Thanks!
What would be a good price on the T4i body??
Aloha_Shooter
12-06-2012, 11:59
I've been following this thread and researching! Been learning a lot. Thanks!
What would be a good price on the T4i body??
Adorama has the T4i body with 16 GB card and a bag for $799: http://www.adorama.com/ICAT4IA.html
They have it bundled with the Canon 18-135mm EF-S lens (good learning lens), 32 GB card, spare battery and a bag for $1049: http://www.adorama.com/ICAT4IK2C.html
Alternatively, bundled with the Tamron 18-270mm lens (good all-around lens), 62mm filters for the lens and an 8 GB card for $1375.43: http://www.adorama.com/ICAT4ID.html I use the Tamron is my general purpose walk-around lens -- good for 90+% of the moments I want to capture and I don't need to worry about swapping lenses -- but your mileage may vary. I have the Canon 18-55 kit lens; it's lightweight, has excellent image qualities and got a good review at DP Review but I really didn't like that 55mm cutoff as a hard transition to the 55-250mm kit lens.
Personally, I find an 8 GB card is pathetically small with these newer cameras but it's good to keep in the bag as an emergency card or for quick moments. There are other combinations of bundles you can look at on the Adorama site (http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=itemlist&cat1=Cameras%20%26%20Lenses&cat2=Digital%20Cameras%20%26%20Accessories&cat3=Digital%20Cameras&Feature1=Canon&Feature3=DSLR%20Cameras). There are various ways to earn miles or cash back by getting to Adorama through someone else's portal while still getting these prices.
Tinelement
12-06-2012, 12:13
Awesome. I was thinking about doing the body and then starting out with the 50mm f/1.4 usm lens.
Seems its been mentioned her and other places as a great starting point.
thoughts?
Adorama has the T4i body with 16 GB card and a bag for $799: http://www.adorama.com/ICAT4IA.html
They have it bundled with the Canon 18-135mm EF-S lens (good learning lens), 32 GB card, spare battery and a bag for $1049: http://www.adorama.com/ICAT4IK2C.html
Alternatively, bundled with the Tamron 18-270mm lens (good all-around lens), 62mm filters for the lens and an 8 GB card for $1375.43: http://www.adorama.com/ICAT4ID.html I use the Tamron is my general purpose walk-around lens -- good for 90+% of the moments I want to capture and I don't need to worry about swapping lenses -- but your mileage may vary. I have the Canon 18-55 kit lens; it's lightweight, has excellent image qualities and got a good review at DP Review but I really didn't like that 55mm cutoff as a hard transition to the 55-250mm kit lens.
Personally, I find an 8 GB card is pathetically small with these newer cameras but it's good to keep in the bag as an emergency card or for quick moments. There are other combinations of bundles you can look at on the Adorama site (http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=itemlist&cat1=Cameras%20%26%20Lenses&cat2=Digital%20Cameras%20%26%20Accessories&cat3=Digital%20Cameras&Feature1=Canon&Feature3=DSLR%20Cameras). There are various ways to earn miles or cash back by getting to Adorama through someone else's portal while still getting these prices.
Aloha_Shooter
12-06-2012, 12:33
hatidua and others made good arguments for the 50mm prime. I started with a 50mm lens on my film SLR years and years ago BUT moved quickly to a large aperture superzoom.
I would say think about what kind of photography you want to do and what you want to learn. You'll learn a lot of basics with the prime and won't have to deal with some factors that the superzooms add. At the same time, you'll have to deal with cropping to get the photo you really wanted in the end. Also, remember the 50 or 55 mm prime emulated the human perspective on film SLRs but the compact sensors have an expansion factor compared to 35 mm film. I like my 35mm prime but it's a $600 lens and I really don't use it that much.
I highly recommend you read reviews of the lenses at sites like DP Review and then think about how the photography done in the reviews compares to the kind of photography you want to do. As with anything else, there's no single best solution.
Lets not forget you can rent lenses too... I've never rented a lens, but its an option vs spending $1k plus on a lens you might not like. I would still ask your family/friends/etc to see what they shoot that way you can rent/borrow lenses from them for cheaper (if they trust you)
streetglideok
12-06-2012, 20:08
Ive used borrowlenses.com once, and it let me try out a 70mm-300mm lens for a nominal fee, vs buying one. Can rent cameras as well too. If you are on the fence about a model, rent one and try it for yourself.
hammer03
12-06-2012, 20:21
Awesome. I was thinking about doing the body and then starting out with the 50mm f/1.4 usm lens.
Seems its been mentioned her and other places as a great starting point.
thoughts?
http://dealsea.com/view-deal/84886
Close
Tinelement
12-06-2012, 21:00
Thanks gents!
I purchased local today!
One Shot
12-06-2012, 23:25
I purchased the T4i and just got the kit lens that came with it....but I don't like it. I am new to this so it made it hard to decide what I wanted and didn't want. I dont like the auto focus on the lens, i'd rather do it manually and when you are shooting a video with the AF on it is pretty loud and can be heard in the video. I'm thinking about taking the camera back and going with the other lens..18-135mm or whatever it is I cant remember. The kit lens doesn't have enough zoom.
Tinelement - Keep us posted how you like the camera. I'm wanting to personally do more wildlife photography and the little point and shoot cannon with the 20x zoom is working out alot better as of right now. Ya its a point n shoot and i'm sure its gonna be pretty limited to what I can do with it but it was like $200 vs an $800 camera that cant take the photos in distance without a pricey lens. But I will say the T4i takes good photos so far and I do like it.
Fentonite
12-06-2012, 23:32
Pulled the trigger on this package deal for the wife's Christmas present (Canon T3i, plus stuff). She's not a photographer, but I'm hoping she'll adopt the hobby. I think she'd be good at it. If she's not psyched, there may be a camera for sale soon...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0062MYUXS/ref=pe_175190_21431760_3p_M3T1_ST1_dp_1
Aloha_Shooter
12-07-2012, 01:32
I dont like the auto focus on the lens, i'd rather do it manually and when you are shooting a video with the AF on it is pretty loud and can be heard in the video. I'm thinking about taking the camera back and going with the other lens..18-135mm or whatever it is I cant remember. The kit lens doesn't have enough zoom.
I don't like where the 18-55 kit lens cuts out either but you can set it to manual focus if you want. Just slide the switch on the left side of the lens from A to M. You can also change HOW the camera selects focus points. The Rebels have an incredible diversity of programming options. I think you'll be pleased with the results if you swap for the package with either the Canon 18-135 or Tamron 18-270.
99% you should use center point focus.... Don't let the camera pick the focus
But when you step up to USM AF you will be spoiled by how quiet and fast lenses with USM are
centrarchidae
12-09-2012, 04:12
99% you should use center point focus.... Don't let the camera pick the focus
THIS, but I'll go one step further.
99% of the time, don't let the camera do any of the actual thinking at all. If you put it in full automatic exposure mode (green box) or automatic white balance, it'll set the white balance and the aperture and the ISO (analogous to a film's ASA rating) and the shutter speed to something that it thinks is appropriate to the average of every shot anybody will ever take.
That's how you end up with sunsets where the sun is the only thing not blown out, the color all screwed up, etc. The sooner that you start trying to be smarter than the camera, the sooner that it'll actually happen. You just need to shoot a lot and then look at your pictures and ask "What did I do here, and do I like the result?" The nice thing about digital is, you don't spend five bucks on a roll of Kodak Gold and another ten bucks on Walgreen's turning it into prints in order to do the trial and error thing.
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