Couple of personal security gear questions

[PugnacAutMortem]

So I've been doing some research on some personal security gear I'm looking to pick up and I thought I'd see what kind of stuff people might use here. The couple things I'm looking for (sort of unrelated to each other, I know) are:

-A motion detector alarm system that I can put into my garage. Basically I am looking for something that would detect motion and wirelessly set of an alarm module in the house to alert me. Ideally it would be something I could turn on and off depending on the situation.

-A dashboard camera that either records both what is in front of me and my driver side window simultaneously, or be switchable to my situation (should I get pulled over).

-A video/audio recording device that I can wear on my person for potential encounters with law enforcement (openly carry stops...don't judge [Beer])

Now I have seen some options for these, but I prefer to talk to people who have actually used these things to see whether or not they actually work. Any advice is much appreciated.

[Flatline]

-A dashboard camera that either records both what is in front of me and my driver side window simultaneously, or be switchable to my situation (should I get pulled over).

-A video/audio recording device that I can wear on my person for potential encounters with law enforcement (openly carry stops...don't judge [Beer])

Now I have seen some options for these, but I prefer to talk to people who have actually used these things to see whether or not they actually work. Any advice is much appreciated.

Are you the guy who provokes the cops on youtube?

[Sharpienads]

Are you the guy who provokes the cops on youtube?

That was my first thought as well.

[merl]

After being actively griefed on the highway, the dash cam has been something I've thought about as well. It should show your instruments though.

and a pocket recorder. I know someone who needs one for workplace issues

[ruthabagah]

I have recently helped a friend install a dashcam in his car. He was in 2 fender bender in the last 12 month, with both drivers taking off without even stopping.... this is the one he bought: HERE (http://www.zetronix.com/product_info.php?products_id=201&m1track=googlebas e&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaig n=export_feed&gclid=CJ6Mu4P47LMCFad_QgodhScAiw&osC sid=os3bgoelfanb1us2qne7jlq9n5#GoogleBase)

[Wulf202]

Go to radio shack and buy a driveway alarm for your garage. The ones at harbor freight ar cheaper but work ok.

[BushMasterBoy]

I'd search Ebay. I usually find stuff way cheaper than the brick & mortar stores. Amazon is good for user reviews. Glad you posted, dash cam is a good idea for insurance purposes.

[PugnacAutMortem]

Are you the guy who provokes the cops on youtube?

No, I'm the guy that doesn't like to be hassled for no particular reason. Especially since I'm getting my CCW permit and I will start popping up as flagged in their system should I be pulled over for some reason. And the dashcam is great if I were to ever get in an accident through no fault of my own. Have you ever seen those people who stop and reverse into you and then demand you give them money or they will call the police? Yeah my insurance premiums are not going up because some asshat is trying to defraud me.

But hey, you and Sharpienads both, thanks for your thoughtful input.

[OneGuy67]

No, I'm the guy that doesn't like to be hassled for no particular reason. Especially since I'm getting my CCW permit and I will start popping up as flagged in their system should I be pulled over for some reason. And the dashcam is great if I were to ever get in an accident through no fault of my own. Have you ever seen those people who stop and reverse into you and then demand you give them money or they will call the police? Yeah my insurance premiums are not going up because some asshat is trying to defraud me.

But hey, you and Sharpienads both, thanks for your thoughtful input.

You won't be flagged in "the system" for having a CCW. That went away quite awhile ago. As for your need to record every contact with law enforcement, apparently, you seem to think you are going to be contacted a lot. Why is that?

[DavieD55]

No, I'm the guy that doesn't like to be hassled for no particular reason. Especially since I'm getting my CCW permit and I will start popping up as flagged in their system should I be pulled over for some reason. And the dashcam is great if I were to ever get in an accident through no fault of my own. Have you ever seen those people who stop and reverse into you and then demand you give them money or they will call the police? Yeah my insurance premiums are not going up because some asshat is trying to defraud me.

But hey, you and Sharpienads both, thanks for your thoughtful input.

There is nothing wrong with that. Keep in mind there are alot of LEO here who think LE can do no wrong no matter what they do to people.

[Byte Stryke]

<---- See Title
I would caution folks against saying unpopular negative things about police officers on this forum.
it has consequences and sometimes, long lasting ones.


There is nothing wrong with that. Keep in mind there are alot of LEO here who think LE can do no wrong no matter what they do to people.

[PugnacAutMortem]

There is nothing wrong with that. Keep in mind there are alot of LEO here who think LE can do no wrong no matter what they do to people.

[Shock] WHAT?!?! You mean that some (and I do mean some) LEOs actually DO detain people without cause/ask for ID when it's not required to be presented/hassle people unjustly? Get out of town...

Look, before I get butchered for being anti-LE I will state right now I'm actually extremely PRO LE. And by that I do indeed mean pro-LAW ENFORCEMENT exclusively. Sometimes that is exactly the same as pro police officers...other times not so much. Listen, my father in law has been with APD for many many many years now and I respect the hell out of him as a man and a police officer. There are lots of cops who do a great job, and I am eternally thankful to them for performing their duties. But I REFUSE to not protect myself should the situation arise where I might be stopped/detained unlawfully for my choice to be armed (which I know some officers don't like citizens being armed...I think they believe we are civilians instead of citizens. Different rant for a different day). Which brings me to:


You won't be flagged in "the system" for having a CCW. That went away quite awhile ago. As for your need to record every contact with law enforcement, apparently, you seem to think you are going to be contacted a lot. Why is that?

So if you carry a gun, you're expecting to be in a gun fight often, correct? By your logic, anyone who prepares for an event expects it to happen frequently. Just thought I should point that out.

[Ronin13]

There is nothing wrong with that. Keep in mind there are alot of LEO here who think LE can do no wrong no matter what they do to people.
I have yet to see any of our LE members defend all LEOs just because of their occupation. I have seen a few (OneGuy is great at this) try to steer away from some blanket blaming ALL cops, yes, like any and all jobs, there are some who are just bad apples, and you must look at each individual situation objectively... As for the OP, I see the need for a dash cam, I DO NOT see the need for a way of recording contact with LE... you aren't being "hassled" for no reason, usually when pulled over they have a reason for it, not just for shits and grins. [Beer]

[PugnacAutMortem]

As for the OP, I see the need for a dash cam, I DO NOT see the need for a way of recording contact with LE... you aren't being "hassled" for no reason, usually when pulled over they have a reason for it, not just for shits and grins. [Beer]

DUI checkpoints?

And you're right I shouldn't have said "no reason". I should have said "for an uninformed/illegal/generally bad reason"

[Ronin13]

So if you carry a gun, you're expecting to be in a gun fight often, correct? By your logic, anyone who prepares for an event expects it to happen frequently. Just thought I should point that out.
Totally different circumstances there... Cops carry guns because they deal with those who break the law, often violently. I'm not required to carry a gun for work because I don't deal with criminals. His logic is sound- you're not preparing for anything, unless you get stopped a lot and have actually been harassed. In my 12 years of driving (I know, not that long) I have never been stopped just because, usually it was because I was breaking one law or another. I haven't been pulled over in over 2 years, I don't expect to be pulled over, but with you wanting some device to record your traffic stops I guess it's safe to assume you should probably spend the money on a lawyer instead, it would appear to me that you can't drive within the confines of the law... just what I gather.

DUI checkpoints?

And you're right I shouldn't have said "no reason". I should have said "for an uninformed/illegal/generally bad reason"
Not trying to put you on the defensive... but I have no problem with DUI checkpoints, and I hardly ever encounter them, but that's because I don't drink and drive... Last time I checked, DUI checkpoints aren't illegal, and I don't see them as being bad. The SCOTUS declared that they are not a violation of your 4th Amendment rights. Last DUI checkpoint I was stopped at, they asked if I had been drinking, I replied with an honest no, they let me go on my way- nothing nefarious about that.

[Tinelement]

In with the mandatory bucket of popcorn!

[Pop]


That is all!


[Flower]

[PugnacAutMortem]

Totally different circumstances there... Cops carry guns because they deal with those who break the law, often violently. I'm not required to carry a gun for work because I don't deal with criminals. His logic is sound- you're not preparing for anything, unless you get stopped a lot and have actually been harassed. In my 12 years of driving (I know, not that long) I have never been stopped just because, usually it was because I was breaking one law or another. I haven't been pulled over in over 2 years, I don't expect to be pulled over, but with you wanting some device to record your traffic stops I guess it's safe to assume you should probably spend the money on a lawyer instead, it would appear to me that you can't drive within the confines of the law... just what I gather.

I'm not talking about cops carrying guns, I'm talking about a regular Joe carrying a gun. His line of logic is if I want to carry a recording device to record my interactions with LE then I must be contacted by LE frequently. Extending that to my example, if someone wants to carry a gun to protect themselves against someone violent, then they must be encountering someone violent often. Of course both lines of thinking are incorrect. You carry a gun in order to be prepared to encounter someone violent...just like I want to carry a recording device to be prepared to record a LE encounter while I'm open carrying in the case where I am detained unlawfully.

I understand how some people think about OC...but the reality is it's not against the law where I live and if I choose to exercise that right I should be unmolested as I go about my business. If I am unapproached by LE in my OC adventures, I'm not going to go home and cry because I don't have a video to upload to youtube to try and get views. If I have a GOOD LE enocounter, I will thank the officer and call his supervisor to thank him as well. BUT, if I were to have a bad LE encounter while I was OC (could also be applied to the dash cam as well), then I am just protecting myself.

[buckeye4rnr]

I'd be interested to read some more recommendations for the dash cam. I've considered one after some near misses with idiots on the road and some of those crazy youtube videos make me think one may not be such a terrible idea to avoid higher insurance premiums.

Though, if the accident were my fault I could "lose" the tape...

[PugnacAutMortem]

I have recently helped a friend install a dashcam in his car. He was in 2 fender bender in the last 12 month, with both drivers taking off without even stopping.... this is the one he bought: HERE (http://www.zetronix.com/product_info.php?products_id=201&amp;m1track=googlebas e&amp;utm_source=googlebase&amp;utm_medium=cse&amp;utm_campaig n=export_feed&amp;gclid=CJ6Mu4P47LMCFad_QgodhScAiw&amp;osC sid=os3bgoelfanb1us2qne7jlq9n5#GoogleBase)

It doesn't seem to state it on that website...but is that only a video recorder? Or does it also record audio?

Edit: NVM...I just missed the "microphone" line in the specs page

[PugnacAutMortem]

Not trying to put you on the defensive... but I have no problem with DUI checkpoints, and I hardly ever encounter them, but that's because I don't drink and drive... Last time I checked, DUI checkpoints aren't illegal, and I don't see them as being bad. The SCOTUS declared that they are not a violation of your 4th Amendment rights. Last DUI checkpoint I was stopped at, they asked if I had been drinking, I replied with an honest no, they let me go on my way- nothing nefarious about that.

Fair enough, and you are correct the DUI checkpoints are not illegal. But I also believe that it's not illegal to not answer their questions nor provide identification unless they have RAS you have been drinking. I just feel that DUI checkpoints just could be the start of conditioning us to be at ease with the government checking up on us. Lol...I guess I'm one of those crazy libertarians now. I used to be a party line republican up until a few weeks before the election...then something snapped (my patience for US politics I believe).

[DavieD55]

[Shock] WHAT?!?! You mean that some (and I do mean some) LEOs actually DO detain people without cause/ask for ID when it's not required to be presented/hassle people unjustly? Get out of town...





Yes, That happens everyday in our nation. As far as i'm concerned those actions are against people's constitutional rights. I do not support people who go out of their way to try and provoke LE on purpose however. Why is it illegal to video/record police officers in some municipalities and states? I think it is very important for the truth to be exposed any and every time. America was founded on truth and sincerity.

[PugnacAutMortem]

Yes, That happens everyday in our nation. As far as i'm concerned those actions are against people's constitutional rights. I do not support people who go out of their way to try and provoke LE on purpose however. Why is it illegal to video/record police officers in some municipalities and states? I think it is very important for the truth to be exposed any and every time. America was founded on truth and sincerity.

Nor do I. Those people just need attention and were probably not hugged enough as a child.

[Ronin13]

Fair enough, and you are correct the DUI checkpoints are not illegal. But I also believe that it's not illegal to not answer their questions nor provide identification unless they have RAS you have been drinking. I just feel that DUI checkpoints just could be the start of conditioning us to be at ease with the government checking up on us. Lol...I guess I'm one of those crazy libertarians now. I used to be a party line republican up until a few weeks before the election...then something snapped (my patience for US politics I believe).
I don't see it that way... but to each his own. I will share this- driving is a privilege not a right, and while operating a motor vehicle you do have to provide proof that you are licensed to operate that vehicle on roads that your registration fees and taxes pay for. You don't have to answer any questions, though, you're right about that, but if you're driving and you are contacted by LE, you do have to provide a license to operate a vehicle.

[BushMasterBoy]

Just be happy you are not on this list everybody!


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/kill-list-rule-book-190528285--election.html (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/kill-list-rule-book-190528285--election.html)

[DavieD55]

I have yet to see any of our LE members defend all LEOs just because of their occupation. I have seen a few (OneGuy is great at this) try to steer away from some blanket blaming ALL cops, yes, like any and all jobs, there are some who are just bad apples, and you must look at each individual situation objectively... As for the OP, I see the need for a dash cam, I DO NOT see the need for a way of recording contact with LE... you aren't being "hassled" for no reason, usually when pulled over they have a reason for it, not just for shits and grins. [Beer]




You're absoloutely right. Dont get me wrong I am pro LE. I am pro LE as long as they dont violate the oath to uphold and defend the supreme law as it reads, No exceptions. Most LEO are great. I realize mistakes cannot always be avoided, however, there must be accountability every time. there are bad apples in every line of work. Dont think i judge all based on the actions of a few. I apologize if i offended any LE members or anyone else.

[Wulf202]

Never actually used one myself but go pro has a good setup for dash cam

Got one guy on csc out of a ticket and the at fault accident reversed.

[PugnacAutMortem]

Never actually used one myself but go pro has a good setup for dash cam

Got one guy on csc out of a ticket and the at fault accident reversed.

That might actually be ideal because it's shock resistant, records audio and I could turn it towards my window should the need arise. I will have to look into those to see what the price point is.

[Ronin13]

That might actually be ideal because it's shock resistant, records audio and I could turn it towards my window should the need arise. I will have to look into those to see what the price point is.
There are 3 different ones- from $199-$399... http://gopro.com/hd-hero3-cameras
And there is a suction cup mount so you don't have to drill into your dash ($29.99): http://gopro.com/camera-mounts/suction-cup-mount

[PugnacAutMortem]

There are 3 different ones- from $199-$399... http://gopro.com/hd-hero3-cameras
And there is a suction cup mount so you don't have to drill into your dash ($29.99): http://gopro.com/camera-mounts/suction-cup-mount

Sweet I think I will have to do that. I wonder why it's the cheapest on the actual Gopro site? Amazon and ebay are selling them for at least $50 above MSRP. Which I would understand if they were hard to find but Gopro has them in stock on their website.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I don't see it that way... but to each his own. I will share this- driving is a privilege not a right, and while operating a motor vehicle you do have to provide proof that you are licensed to operate that vehicle on roads that your registration fees and taxes pay for. You don't have to answer any questions, though, you're right about that, but if you're driving and you are contacted by LE, you do have to provide a license to operate a vehicle.
We have a winner! [LOL]

You're absoloutely right. Dont get me wrong I am pro LE. I am pro LE as long as they dont violate the oath to uphold and defend the supreme law as it reads, No exceptions. Most LEO are great. I realize mistakes cannot always be avoided, however, there must be accountability every time. there are bad apples in every line of work. Dont think i judge all based on the actions of a few. I apologize if i offended any LE members or anyone else.
You didn't offend me. Don't worry. [ROFL1]

That might actually be ideal because it's shock resistant, records audio and I could turn it towards my window should the need arise. I will have to look into those to see what the price point is.
GoPro is your best bet. You should look into those.


My only advice to you for you ENTIRE thread here is this...

When questioned about why you're recording the contact, DO NOT be a douche bag. Be polite. Explain WHY without being a smart ass. Don't make it sound like the cop is doing something wrong. Say something like, "It's protection for both of us." Make sure you don't come off as, "It's so you don't fuck me up for no reason, asshole."

The people that post on other forums about their Open Carry contacts bring MOST OF THAT on them on their own. I say most because there really are some asshole cops out there.

I'm willing to bet that if most the people that complain about how they were treated just did what the cop asked they would have had a better experience.

"Can I see your ID, please?" NO!!! I KNOW MY RIGHTS!!!! NO WAY CAN YOU SEE MY ID!!!!! "Well ok... Since you're being a dick I'm gonna be a dick."

OR....

"Can I see your ID, please?" Sure, here ya go. "Ok. Thanks. Everything checks out good. Have a nice day!"

That's just how I see it. Do it however you want. Just a suggestion.


ALSO! Traffic stops... Pull over, flashers on, dome light on, hands on the wheel. Don't grab for your wallet before they ask for it... Makes everything so much easier.

[PugnacAutMortem]

My only advice to you for you ENTIRE thread here is this...

When questioned about why you're recording the contact, DO NOT be a douche bag. Be polite. Explain WHY without being a smart ass. Don't make it sound like the cop is doing something wrong. Say something like, "It's protection for both of us." Make sure you don't come off as, "It's so you don't fuck me up for no reason, asshole."

The people that post on other forums about their Open Carry contacts bring MOST OF THAT on them on their own. I say most because there really are some asshole cops out there.

Oh believe me I had no intention of being a d-bag. Like I said, I have nothing but respect for LEOs. I just enjoy exercising my rights and protecting myself in the best way that I can.


I'm willing to bet that if most the people that complain about how they were treated just did what the cop asked they would have had a better experience.

"Can I see your ID, please?" NO!!! I KNOW MY RIGHTS!!!! NO WAY CAN YOU SEE MY ID!!!!! "Well ok... Since you're being a dick I'm gonna be a dick."

OR....

"Can I see your ID, please?" Sure, here ya go. "Ok. Thanks. Everything checks out good. Have a nice day!"

That's just how I see it. Do it however you want. Just a suggestion.


ALSO! Traffic stops... Pull over, flashers on, dome light on, hands on the wheel. Don't grab for your wallet before they ask for it... Makes everything so much easier.

Fair enough, and those are good tips on traffic stops. Hadn't thought about the dome light on but that is a good idea. On the topic of producing ID when I'm not legally required to do so...again that's kind of in the same camp as the DUI checkpoints for me. If I'm not legally required to produce my ID, I will respectfully decline to do so. I understand that's not necessarily the thing that officers want to hear...but I do enjoy my privacy.

[dwalker460]

My racecars use the Race Keeper- http://www.race-keeper.com/ which uses up to 4 cameras, a mike, and a GPS logger, can be remote started, etc etc. It works awesome. I currently use three cameras, one forward, one back and one cockpit.
And just FYI, cops use video too-

I was once pulled over in Atlanta because I had out of state plates and was driving through an area known for car theft, prostitution, and other gang activities. I had a headlight go out on the trip down, and he pulled me over to check me out. Since I checked out, and was polite, the officer and I ended up chatting for a bit, mostly about what was a ood area to move to if I took the job. "After a bit the guy says, hey come look at this" The officer was apparently wired for video and sound, and showed me the playback of the entire stop on a little screen in his trunk. Was actually pretty cool.
I also was pretty good friends with some of the DUI Task Force in my hometown. The officers and cars were wired up for video and sound, and you just cannot believe some of the stuff they record.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Oh believe me I had no intention of being a d-bag. Like I said, I have nothing but respect for LEOs. I just enjoy exercising my rights and protecting myself in the best way that I can.



Fair enough, and those are good tips on traffic stops. Hadn't thought about the dome light on but that is a good idea. On the topic of producing ID when I'm not legally required to do so...again that's kind of in the same camp as the DUI checkpoints for me. If I'm not legally required to produce my ID, I will respectfully decline to do so. I understand that's not necessarily the thing that officers want to hear...but I do enjoy my privacy.

And that's your right. Just don't be a dick about it is all cops ask for.

Enjoy and be safe, sir.

[Inspector Fowler]

As a cop, I'll say this -

Go ahead and record us. I'm the nicest guy you could meet in uniform. Every cop you record being a jerk just makes me look that much nicer.

I tell every trainee and everybody who will listen to "start every contact at 1, not 7 or 8". That way, if things go south, any recordings or witnesses just show you being polite and firm, not authoritative and rude.

That said, there are two things that I HATE about police recordings:

Number One - The editing. Sure, people are happy to post a video to YouTube of them getting "yanked out of my car when I didn't do anything", but what you don't see is the motorist having a cop politely explain to him that he was on radar doing 13 over, then refusing to give his license, then pulling the race card, etc, etc, etc. If you are stopped for a valid reason and refuse to identify yourself, start screaming profanities, etc, you will get removed from your vehicle eventually. Posting the removal but not the legal reason for it is pretty lame.

Number Two - You definitely don't strike me as "that guy", but I hate it when people antagonize the police intentionally, knowing they are being recorded. Being passive aggressive counts. Failing to comply with simple commands like, "I need your ID" or "Sit here" or "Show me your hands" also counts. This only works if somebody is going to edit the footage like point One above, but it leads into my last issue, below:

Also, be aware of this - if you are stopped, and the stop turns into anything besides a traffic violation, your dashcam and its footage can be seized (with a warrant). So (and again - this doesn't sound like you, but I feel like I should get it out there) - if somebody is stopped for speeding, and refuse to present ID, and then they fight with the cops as they remove the motorist, there is now an audio and possibly video recording of that event. That recording is evidence, and thus can be seized in the right circumstances. If the cops realize this (they may not, dashcams in civilian cars are still pretty new in the US), they can (and should) tow the vehicle to a secure yard and get a warrant to remove the camera and footage. I think this could ostensibly apply to the traffic violation itself - if I stop somebody for clearly running a red light and they claim they did not, well, that there dash cam might have the answer.

It's a double edged sword, and as long as you drive safely (sorry to sound preachy, I also belong to a car club online where members sometimes post some questionable driving behavior) and are cool during any traffic stops, you won't have to worry. Just food for thought. I have thought about getting a dash cam myself, but I hesitate for a lot of the same reasons - if I get stopped and the cop sees it, I don't need my property being evidence in some court case.

Edit - I know it's been mentioned above, but if an officer stops you with reasonable suspicion you have committed a traffic violation, you are required to identify yourself. I am not sure what other circumstances you see yourself getting stopped in, but even getting stopped for speeding 5 over requires you to identify yourself.

[Aloha_Shooter]

ALSO! Traffic stops... Pull over, flashers on, dome light on, hands on the wheel. Don't grab for your wallet before they ask for it... Makes everything so much easier.

I understand hands on the wheel before he gets up to you but why wouldn't you get your wallet and proof of insurance out and ready before he walks up to the window? I would have thought it would be easiest if there are no moves whatsoever to any place of concealment so there are no questions at all?

[PugnacAutMortem]

As a cop, I'll say this -

Go ahead and record us. I'm the nicest guy you could meet in uniform. Every cop you record being a jerk just makes me look that much nicer.

I tell every trainee and everybody who will listen to "start every contact at 1, not 7 or 8". That way, if things go south, any recordings or witnesses just show you being polite and firm, not authoritative and rude.

That said, there are two things that I HATE about police recordings:

Number One - The editing. Sure, people are happy to post a video to YouTube of them getting "yanked out of my car when I didn't do anything", but what you don't see is the motorist having a cop politely explain to him that he was on radar doing 13 over, then refusing to give his license, then pulling the race card, etc, etc, etc. If you are stopped for a valid reason and refuse to identify yourself, start screaming profanities, etc, you will get removed from your vehicle eventually. Posting the removal but not the legal reason for it is pretty lame.

Number Two - You definitely don't strike me as "that guy", but I hate it when people antagonize the police intentionally, knowing they are being recorded. Being passive aggressive counts. Failing to comply with simple commands like, "I need your ID" or "Sit here" or "Show me your hands" also counts. This only works if somebody is going to edit the footage like point One above, but it leads into my last issue, below:

Also, be aware of this - if you are stopped, and the stop turns into anything besides a traffic violation, your dashcam and its footage can be seized (with a warrant). So (and again - this doesn't sound like you, but I feel like I should get it out there) - if somebody is stopped for speeding, and refuse to present ID, and then they fight with the cops as they remove the motorist, there is now an audio and possibly video recording of that event. That recording is evidence, and thus can be seized in the right circumstances. If the cops realize this (they may not, dashcams in civilian cars are still pretty new in the US), they can (and should) tow the vehicle to a secure yard and get a warrant to remove the camera and footage. I think this could ostensibly apply to the traffic violation itself - if I stop somebody for clearly running a red light and they claim they did not, well, that there dash cam might have the answer.

It's a double edged sword, and as long as you drive safely (sorry to sound preachy, I also belong to a car club online where members sometimes post some questionable driving behavior) and are cool during any traffic stops, you won't have to worry. Just food for thought. I have thought about getting a dash cam myself, but I hesitate for a lot of the same reasons - if I get stopped and the cop sees it, I don't need my property being evidence in some court case.

Edit - I know it's been mentioned above, but if an officer stops you with reasonable suspicion you have committed a traffic violation, you are required to identify yourself. I am not sure what other circumstances you see yourself getting stopped in, but even getting stopped for speeding 5 over requires you to identify yourself.

I sincerely appreciate the insight from an actual LEO. I think I stated it before but maybe not in so many words...but I defintely am not recording to post anything on youtube or anywhere else for that matter. Not saying you were accusing me of that...just wanted to put that out there in the ether.

Your number 1 thing is also something that pisses me off to no end. If the officer is genuinely acting unlawfully, the entirety of the video will make that abundantly clear. But people have no respect for laws, so they try anything and everything they can to make hard-working officers look terrible.

Question though...if the dash cam were to be seized for evidence...would I ever get it back (after the proceedings were finished of course)? I've never been through anything like that so I don't really know how that all works.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I understand hands on the wheel before he gets up to you but why wouldn't you get your wallet and proof of insurance out and ready before he walks up to the window? I would have thought it would be easiest if there are no moves whatsoever to any place of concealment so there are no questions at all?

Because then it looks like you're either hiding or going for something. The cop will see the movement and won't know what you're doing.

Sure, you might just be getting your insurance out of your glove box, but you might also be going for a gun to shoot the cop in the face when he walks up. Cop has to assume the worst.

Plus, the cop would rather be watching you move instead of you moving while he's walking up.

[theGinsue]

There is nothing wrong with that. Keep in mind there are alot of LEO here who think LE can do no wrong no matter what they do to people.

I'll say this 1 last time so pay attention. If you wish to speak *SPECIFICALLY* about the actions of 1 LEO, you are more than welcome (ETA: but no comments indicating how you hope or think someone, specifically any LEO, deserves to be shot/killed). If you wish to get on here and make generalized statements about a particular group of LEO's or all LEO's in general, go someplace else - it's NOT welcome here. And yes, there will be undesirable consequences for those who choose to ignore this.

The rest of the staff and I are also sick of the "I can't say anything that won't get me into trouble" and these sorts of comments:

<---- See Title
I would caution folks against saying unpopular negative things about police officers on this forum.
it has consequences and sometimes, long lasting ones.

Cease and desist. The "victim card", as these sort of comments are, do nothing positive and only serve to irritate the staff - poor choice and will likely bring bad juju to the poster.



DUI checkpoints?

And you're right I shouldn't have said "no reason". I should have said "for an uninformed/illegal/generally bad reason"
If you don't like DUI checkpoints, get yourself elected to the agencies (city/county council, state legislature, etc.) that direct the enactment of these checkpoints and you can work to get them stopped. To blame the cop on the street for a policy decision is short-sighted and naive'.

Oh, and for those of you who don't know me: No, I'm not an LEO, I'm an IT guy.

[OneGuy67]

So if you carry a gun, you're expecting to be in a gun fight often, correct? By your logic, anyone who prepares for an event expects it to happen frequently. Just thought I should point that out.

Apples to oranges.


I have yet to see any of our LE members defend all LEOs just because of their occupation. I have seen a few (OneGuy is great at this) try to steer away from some blanket blaming ALL cops, yes, like any and all jobs, there are some who are just bad apples, and you must look at each individual situation objectively... As for the OP, I see the need for a dash cam, I DO NOT see the need for a way of recording contact with LE... you aren't being "hassled" for no reason, usually when pulled over they have a reason for it, not just for shits and grins. [Beer]

Holy crap, Batman! The world is going to end. I'm being backed by Ronin! (Just teasing!)


Fair enough, and you are correct the DUI checkpoints are not illegal. But I also believe that it's not illegal to not answer their questions nor provide identification unless they have RAS you have been drinking. I just feel that DUI checkpoints just could be the start of conditioning us to be at ease with the government checking up on us. Lol...I guess I'm one of those crazy libertarians now. I used to be a party line republican up until a few weeks before the election...then something snapped (my patience for US politics I believe).

I don't know if you've gone through a DUI checkpoint at all, but I've run them before. We make it very clear to all officers working the checkpoint that the first contact with the driver is a "Hi, how are you" type of greeting and if their observations of the driver develop that reasonable suspicion, then they can go from there in investigating the possible DUI. They do not ask for ID. They generally hand out a card supplied by a sponsor like MADD or other such agency, but we also handed out gift cards from the local restaurant for a free this or that. I guess in your mind that is conditioning since they are being nice to you.


On the topic of producing ID when I'm not legally required to do so...again that's kind of in the same camp as the DUI checkpoints for me. If I'm not legally required to produce my ID, I will respectfully decline to do so. I understand that's not necessarily the thing that officers want to hear...but I do enjoy my privacy.

I would suggest you have a very clear understanding of when an officer can ask for your ID and when he cannot. You may believe the situation doesn't call for the production of your ID and the officer may believe it does. Who is going to win that argument and how is really up to you. From reading your posts, it does seem as though you have an issue that you want to address publicly regarding OC; whether that is wanting LE contact in order to record those contacts or some other reason why you feel you are going to be constantly contacted enough to require a means of constant recording.


I know it's been mentioned above, but if an officer stops you with reasonable suspicion you have committed a traffic violation, you are required to identify yourself. I am not sure what other circumstances you see yourself getting stopped in, but even getting stopped for speeding 5 over requires you to identify yourself.

From just what I've been reading, it sounds as though he is more concerned with contact with LE over the OC issue. Good points on the other stuff Inspector!

[Inspector Fowler]

Yeah, you'll get the camera back - when the entire case is completed, which as we all know, takes a long time.

Like I say, it's a double edged sword - there are cops that don't behave well, and they either need some strong correcting to make them into polite individuals, or they need to get canned. Video evidence can accomplish that. I feel pretty fortunate to work where I do (it's not the department in my location, BTW), and I feel like the people I work with are the people I would want dealing with my family should they do something wrong. But that doesn't mean all cops are like that, and when cops are caught doing something their department wouldn't be proud of, then people should know about it.

As long as you drive normally and are cool during stops, then the cops won't ever need your camera. I will probably eventually overcome my fears and get one, because I take an awful lot of hit and run MVAs and I meet an awful lot of people who are woooooefully under-prepared to operate a car. Even if it did mean losing the camera for a year while a case gets resolved, it could save thousands if some jerk claims I hit them instead of the other way around.

[Ronin13]

Since Ginsue said it I can breath a sigh of relief in getting off my chest (I may have been guilty in the past for this but no longer)- I too am tired of the "I can't say anything that will get me into trouble" comments...
As for contact with LE on OC- I ask, for the sake of this community and the general, gun ownership community: please don't be that guy that records the contact and posts on the web if you have a bad experience". I see these videos and just think that you are being a d-bag and "educating" cops on the law is not the way to go (not informing them of the law, but taking that attitude and being an asshole), that's why we have lawyers, court rooms, and the judicial system- so you can argue there, not on the street.

[Ashton]

I would never put a dash cam in my car. In the event that I did do something illegal? Less evidence is better when trying to get away / plea / fight a possible conviction.

Also, it's called a CELL PHONE. Records video and audio. But if I was a cop and saw someone pull up a cell phone to record everything... Honestly you'd just piss me off and if he was thinking about possibly not giving you a ticket I think you're pretty much guaranteed one now.

Personally, I try to say as little as possible with any interaction with the police when I'm stopped. Just be courteous, have your drivers license, insurance, and registration ready to go. 99% of the time even when I was doing something "illegal" ie speeding a little bit they just let me go.

[Ashton]

[Shock] WHAT?!?! You mean that some (and I do mean some) LEOs actually DO detain people without cause/ask for ID when it's not required to be presented/hassle people unjustly? Get out of town...


In all honesty. Every patrol car has a dash cam on them already. I firmly believe that people that say they were hassled for no reason are just blowing smoke. Why? People are lazy. We work because we require income to live. Unless one has a personal vendetta against you they're not going to go out of their way to hassle you. They just want to keep doing what they're doing and get paid for it so that life can continue. Also, if you dress or act a certain way for them to profile you to hassle you? Dress a different way. If you don't want to be called a hick don't dress like a hick. If you don't want people to think you're homeless don't dress like a homeless person. Stereotypes exist for a reason.

[PugnacAutMortem]

If you don't like DUI checkpoints, get yourself elected to the agencies (city/county council, state legislature, etc.) that direct the enactment of these checkpoints and you can work to get them stopped. To blame the cop on the street for a policy decision is short-sighted and naive'.

Oh, and for those of you who don't know me: No, I'm not an LEO, I'm an IT guy.

Oh I'm not blaming the cop on the street in that case. I know he/she is doing what they are told to do by those agencies you mentioned.

[PugnacAutMortem]

I would suggest you have a very clear understanding of when an officer can ask for your ID and when he cannot. You may believe the situation doesn't call for the production of your ID and the officer may believe it does. Who is going to win that argument and how is really up to you. From reading your posts, it does seem as though you have an issue that you want to address publicly regarding OC; whether that is wanting LE contact in order to record those contacts or some other reason why you feel you are going to be constantly contacted enough to require a means of constant recording.

Look, like I said before OC is legal where I live. If I choose to OC, that is indeed my right. I do not WANT contact from LE when I'm doing something legally. If I do have LE contact, I really do hope that it is pleasant. I'm not hoping for a bad experience, but I'm prepared to record one. I don't have any desire to post anything on youtube or garner any fame. I just want to go about my business, acting within the law. I won't be going out specifically OC to be contacted by LE (like some dickweeds do on youtube), nor will I OC all the time (in the process of getting my CCW permit as we speak). I just want to have something on me that I can record an interaction...should it happen to turn out less than desirably. Personal protection. I understand you are a LEO (assuming anyways from your posts) but I just can't understand why for the life of me that my desire to be prepared for a situation that I hope doesn't happen makes me an instigator somehow.

[BushMasterBoy]

Another reason to have a dash cam...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pONIYogzx3o

[BigBear]

In all honesty... Stereotypes exist for a reason.


Winning quote of the week.

People always treat me like some thug and are all disrespectful... said the guy dressed in a suit... never.

[TFOGGER]

Meh...nothing I can say that WILL get me in trouble. Cops have chosen to take on a job that can be unpleasant, but at the end of the day, the vast majority of them are good guys. People rarely post up footage of their positive interaction with law enforcement. Treat them with courtesy and respect, and most likely they will treat you with the same. Be unpleasant to them, and most will still treat you with courtesy and respect, now matter how undeserving you are. Be a total dickhead, and they can make your life unpleasant if they choose to. Arguing with a cop on the roadside is a losing bet; I've never heard of anyone arguing their way out of a ticket.

[lead_magnet]

I would never put a dash cam in my car. Bad ju ju. Bad bad ju ju. You'll end up on Real TV or that "I survived" show. To hell with that jazz, I'll die in privacy thank you very much.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Stereotypes exist for a reason.

Right now the Brady Bunch and Dianne Feinstein have you, me and everyone else on this board stereotyped as out-of-control, ignorant, violent, fundamentalist cowboys (or wannabes). Other elements of the Democratic party have veterans stereotyped as PTSD sufferers who are more of a danger than Islamic terrorists, I mean misunderstood browbeaten exploited Islamic victims of Western aggression.

Yep, stereotypes exist for a reason.

[Irving]

Do you guys drive a Power Ranger or something? Get your stuff out as you are pulling over. Keep your stuff organized and all it takes is one quick reach into your glove box and you can toss it all onto your dash. Remember to keep your seat belt on though.

[Ashton]

Do you guys drive a Power Ranger or something? Get your stuff out as you are pulling over. Keep your stuff organized and all it takes is one quick reach into your glove box and you can toss it all onto your dash. Remember to keep your seat belt on though.

Just keep your drivers license, insurance card, and registration (wrapped around your insurance card in thirds) in your wallet. Opening my glove box would provoke the cop to yell "GUN!" to his partner which then I would have guns drawn on me.

[gnihcraes]

Go to radio shack and buy a driveway alarm for your garage. The ones at harbor freight ar cheaper but work ok.

I have two of these from harbor freight and they work great. Have survived summer storms and everything. Battery life has been great too.

One on the back driveway and one on the front walkway. Both on same channel so I can listen in two locations for either one being tripped.

[Irving]

Just keep your drivers license, insurance card, and registration (wrapped around your insurance card in thirds) in your wallet. Opening my glove box would provoke the cop to yell "GUN!" to his partner which then I would have guns drawn on me.

That hasn't once happened to me in the hundreds of times I've been pulled over.

[Ronin13]

I would never put a dash cam in my car. Bad ju ju. Bad bad ju ju. You'll end up on Real TV or that "I survived" show. To hell with that jazz, I'll die in privacy thank you very much.
Like that kid that put a gas tank cam on his motorcycle and did 250KPH in Germany... then was later arrested because he posted it on the internet? Play stupid games...

[SA Friday]

Right now the Brady Bunch and Dianne Feinstein have you, me and everyone else on this board stereotyped as out-of-control, ignorant, violent, fundamentalist cowboys (or wannabes). Other elements of the Democratic party have veterans stereotyped as PTSD sufferers who are more of a danger than Islamic terrorists, I mean misunderstood browbeaten exploited Islamic victims of Western aggression.

Yep, stereotypes exist for a reason.

Really? You are using Feinstein as an example of something defined with "widely held image or idea"? [fail] Just saying.... [Coffee]

[jhood001]

That hasn't once happened to me in the hundreds of times I've been pulled over.

Irving needs his custom title changed from 'Repost Police' to 'Lead Foot'.