How safe is your stored ammo ??

[clublights]

Turns out...


pretty darn safe even for the firefighters having to save your house



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c

[ChunkyMonkey]

Good to know. Thx for the post.

[MATT02GT]

Thats pretty interesting for sure

[buffalobo]

Will be showing this to the wife. Having been in the fire protection business in the past she has always been pretty fearful of storing any bulk ammo in the house outside the safes. Good to know that we should be able to contain and minimize the danger without having to spend boatloads of money.

[Flatline]

Yeah, without a barrel there is almost nothing gained in velocity. In addition to what is showed in the video the cases themselves will also move, further removing potency from the projectile or case. My personal concern is that if I hear ammo going off from outside its gonna be hot as hell inside(ammo cooks off at something like 300 degrees F). And some idiot may have left ammo in a gun's chamber, which would be deadly if it gets cooked off by a fire.

This plus the fact that if a department policy is that ammo + fire = stay outside, then nobody will go inside regardless.

[Bailey Guns]

There are far worse dangers to firefighters in a home fire than ammunition. 28k rounds of ammo burned...brought a tear to my eye.

BTW: The coolest thing is this video was the Constellation in the background while doing the drop test.

[liberty19]

Great info. Thanks for sharing.

[Byte Stryke]

There are far worse dangers to firefighters in a home fire than ammunition.

ever seen what happens to a gallon of bleach at 300f ?
Aerosol cans
stuff people store is insane

[RonMexico]

Cool video, thanks for posting

[Great-Kazoo]

Yeah, without a barrel there is almost nothing gained in velocity. In addition to what is showed in the video the cases themselves will also move, further removing potency from the projectile or case. My personal concern is that if I hear ammo going off from outside its gonna be hot as hell inside(ammo cooks off at something like 300 degrees F). And some idiot may have left ammo in a gun's chamber, which would be deadly if it gets cooked off by a fire.

This plus the fact that if a department policy is that ammo + fire = stay outside, then nobody will go inside regardless.

I must be an Idiot seeing how any firearm i have available IS LOADED. What's the point of having an accessible gun IF it's Not Loaded. For all the hand wringers on line, NO we do Not have Any Children.

[BlasterBob]

Outstanding video. Those demo's cost some big bucks but sure got the point across. I'd like to have seen a bunch of RIM FIRE ammo included in those tests especially with the CAT driving over them.
Many thanks for posting!!
[blaster]

[Flatline]

I must be an Idiot seeing how any firearm i have available IS LOADED. What's the point of having an accessible gun IF it's Not Loaded. For all the hand wringers on line, NO we do Not have Any Children.

You have time to get to a gun that is not on you but you don't have half a second to rack the slide?

[lex137]

Thanks for the post really informative!!! It was sad seeing all those rounds burned!

[Great-Kazoo]

You have time to get to a gun that is not on you but you don't have half a second to rack the slide?

It happens that quick. Each to his or her own, me they are loaded. I do not need to justify my actions to you or anyone else. You prefer unloaded good for you.
FWIW: i also carry hot too.

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[ChunkyMonkey]

Couple on the nightstand, along w/ loaded REM870 and AR-15 under the heavenly sleep number bed. [M2]

[alan0269]

I must be an Idiot seeing how any firearm i have available IS LOADED. What's the point of having an accessible gun IF it's Not Loaded. For all the hand wringers on line, NO we do Not have Any Children.


It happens that quick. Each to his or her own, me they are loaded. I do not need to justify my actions to you or anyone else. You prefer unloaded good for you.
FWIW: i also carry hot too.

I guess I'm a fellow idiot as well since I keep all my defensive firearms loaded and ready to go at a moments notice. The difference being I do have "children" in the house (14 & 18 yrs), but my guns are either on me or locked up in the safe.

[Sawin]

fellow idiot here. Mine remain loaded at the ready, unless they're going in to long term storage.

[TFOGGER]

Count me as an idiot as well. If it's not in the safe, it's loaded and ready to go.

[birddog]

Yup, loaded here. Good video to the OP, we were just having a talk about this at work this week.

[clublights]

It's nice to know that if you wanted to build an "ammo bunker" basically all you need is two layers of 5/8" sheetrock to contain projectiles ( tho in most cases 1 would do .. the second is the backup)

I knew that they would not shoot of like inside of a chamber of a weapon but I didn't think they would still be so weak as to not even punch thru bunker gear at 15 feet.

Really makes me feel better living in an apartment knowing that it's rather unlikey to harm others. now I can up my ammo supply here [word]

I wonder if the ammo is stored in a " standard" ammo can and subjected to fire what would happen ?

Would the contained primer ignitions just blow the seals out on the ammo or would it blow a hole in the side ? ( would the mythbusters take this on to test?)

As to the loaded weapon and cook off.. the first warning in the video says it will fire as if you pulled the trigger. I don't think many of us keep more then one or two loaded and ready so the safety is a factor but I think that the ammo in the mag would cook off first ( the chamber providing a bit insulation to slow down the cook off) preventing the weapon from cycling (in an semi/full auto I suppose a revolver has X number of chambers but only one barrel could make for an interesting test .. what abotu the other X number of chambers not inline with the barrel at that moment) so that only one round would be a danger ( per weapon). I'm ok with one round being a danger compared to a couple thousand rounds in storage ( pretty good odds I say)

[MCarp71]

It happens that quick. Each to his or her own, me they are loaded. I do not need to justify my actions to you or anyone else. You prefer unloaded good for you.
FWIW: i also carry hot too.

Count me in as an idiot! locked and loaded through out the house. I have an 18 yo. although he has more guns than some adults I know. NO Worries!

Carry Hot, Carry Often!

[SideShow Bob]

I would like to see that done with powders in different sized units, 1#,4# and 8#, stored in the open on shelving and in different containers from ammo cans to locking cabinets.

And yes, I cried watching all that ammunition being destroyed. [Cry]

[alxone]

sadly all my ammo is at the bottom of that crazy gun eating lake [Coffee]

[Ah Pook]

Had a neighbor's house burn down a few years back. I helped the VFD run hose. We dodged a lot of .45acp casings that were flying through the air. Some went 30'.

[sabot_round]

I guess that I'm an idiot too!! Having a readily available firearm unloaded is like installing a screen-door on a submarine...it just doesn't make sense!!

BTW I'm weeping about all of the 400,000 rounds that were use during the test. They should've gave it all to me.

[BuffCyclist]

To start off, I watched the entire video and tried counting the rounds they destroyed, but then got too sad so I stopped. Very informative video and definitely worth the 25min to watch it.

Not sure why we're counting idiots here. I think the risk of a fire is less than the risk of someone breaking into the house while I'm there. If everyone is worried about the firearm shooting the chambered cartridge, why not just mount/store the loaded firearm pointing in a safe direction. After all, that is one of the firearm laws (always keep it pointed in a safe direction)...

Better yet, why not just get a revolver and keep an empty cylinder over the barrel. In self-defense, pulling the trigger in DA mode would advance the cartridge and fire it. Although with that line of thought, the rounds in a revolver are constricted by the cylinder and could therefore go off, not necessarily shooting down the barrel, but they would destroy the revolver in the process. So maybe a revolver isn't a good idea.

I keep my bedside pistol mounted in a CQC holster that I have rigged to hang off the side of my nightstand, pointing downwards. If my house caught fire and it discharged, it would shoot into the concrete slab, I guess risking a ricochet, but thats better than it resting on a table and shooting off in a random direction, possibly through the house.

Perhaps I'm totally missing the point of what people are talking about, and if so feel free to enlighten me.

eta: I did forward this to my sister who is a Paramedic Firefighter. Not sure if she's aware of the truth behind this or not, but its a commonly believed myth by the vast majority of people (or so it seems).

[Great-Kazoo]

Not sure why we're counting idiots here. I think the risk of a fire is less than the risk of someone breaking into the house while I'm there. If everyone is worried about the firearm shooting the chambered cartridge, why not just mount/store the loaded firearm pointing in a safe direction. After all, that is one of the firearm laws (always keep it pointed in a safe direction)...

Better yet, why not just get a revolver and keep an empty cylinder over the barrel. In self-defense, pulling the trigger in DA mode would advance the cartridge and fire it. Although with that line of thought, the rounds in a revolver are constricted by the cylinder and could therefore go off, not necessarily shooting down the barrel, but they would destroy the revolver in the process. So maybe a revolver isn't a good idea.

I keep my bedside pistol mounted in a CQC holster that I have rigged to hang off the side of my nightstand, pointing downwards. If my house caught fire and it discharged, it would shoot into the concrete slab, I guess risking a ricochet, but thats better than it resting on a table and shooting off in a random direction, possibly through the house.

Perhaps I'm totally missing the point of what people are talking about, and if so feel free to enlighten me.

eta: I did forward this to my sister who is a Paramedic Firefighter. Not sure if she's aware of the truth behind this or not, but its a commonly believed myth by the vast majority of people (or so it seems).

Yes & No. I replied in my normal congenial & courteous way to this sentence by another member (Flatline) You will also see i said i choose to keep one loaded, a personal choice. Not one that is or should be gospel for gun owners (loosely interpreted)
And some idiot may have left ammo in a gun's chamber, which would be deadly if it gets cooked off by a fire.

To date i have and never will understand WHY IF you own a gun for PP / defensive tool you would not have one in the chamber. His sentence could have been worded differently to something like IF you had a loaded gun AND there was a fire it might become deadly, instead of SOME IDIOT.
Obviously other posted agree with this IDIOT(me), that they too keep a loaded gun in the home. The up side to all this is no one has (yet) stooped low and started name calling.

[Sawin]

Had a neighbor's house burn down a few years back. I helped the VFD run hose. We dodged a lot of .45acp casings that were flying through the air. Some went 30'.

Exactly. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the fact that the casings, being much lighter than the actual bullets, would be what becomes the projectile in this situation. When a primer ignites on an unencumbered round, the actual bullet will move a heck of a lot less than the brass will, simply based on weight.

[sabot_round]

Not sure why we're counting idiots here. I think the risk of a fire is less than the risk of someone breaking into the house while I'm there. If everyone is worried about the firearm shooting the chambered cartridge, why not just mount/store the loaded firearm pointing in a safe direction. After all, that is one of the firearm laws (always keep it pointed in a safe direction)...

Better yet, why not just get a revolver and keep an empty cylinder over the barrel. In self-defense, pulling the trigger in DA mode would advance the cartridge and fire it. Although with that line of thought, the rounds in a revolver are constricted by the cylinder and could therefore go off, not necessarily shooting down the barrel, but they would destroy the revolver in the process. So maybe a revolver isn't a good idea.

I keep my bedside pistol mounted in a CQC holster that I have rigged to hang off the side of my nightstand, pointing downwards. If my house caught fire and it discharged, it would shoot into the concrete slab, I guess risking a ricochet, but thats better than it resting on a table and shooting off in a random direction, possibly through the house.

Perhaps I'm totally missing the point of what people are talking about, and if so feel free to enlighten me.

eta: I did forward this to my sister who is a Paramedic Firefighter. Not sure if she's aware of the truth behind this or not, but its a commonly believed myth by the vast majority of people (or so it seems).

I keep some firearms in strategic places for our protection. They are loaded and ready to go in case of a house invasion. Just in case that you weren't tracking, during the 2 wars that we were fighting in Iraq and Asscrackistan many undesirables were able to join in, get the training, and get out (trust me, I was a Drill Sergeant during those times). Now those same undesirables have the skills to enter a house and clear it with the same speed as our troops.

Now the question is, do you want to be a victim? If not, keep your firearms loaded and within arms reach and when you carry, carry on red!!

SR

[BuffCyclist]

Yes & No. I replied in my normal congenial & courteous way to this sentence by another member (Flatline) You will also see i said i choose to keep one loaded, a personal choice. Not one that is or should be gospel for gun owners (loosely interpreted)
And some idiot may have left ammo in a gun's chamber, which would be deadly if it gets cooked off by a fire.

To date i have and never will understand WHY IF you own a gun for PP / defensive tool you would not have one in the chamber. His sentence could have been worded differently to something like IF you had a loaded gun AND there was a fire it might become deadly, instead of SOME IDIOT.
Obviously other posted agree with this IDIOT(me), that they too keep a loaded gun in the home. The up side to all this is no one has (yet) stooped low and started name calling.

Ah, gotcha! Its my last night on a 4 night shift (around 15hr nights) and I'm incredibly exhausted, not reading sentences clearly lol. I need sarcasm signs for clarity.


I keep some firearms in strategic places for our protection. They are loaded and ready to go in case of a house invasion. Just in case that you weren't tracking, during the 2 wars that we were fighting in Iraq and Asscrackistan many undesirables were able to join in, get the training, and get out (trust me, I was a Drill Sergeant during those times). Now those same undesirables have the skills to enter a house and clear it with the same speed as our troops.

Now the question is, do you want to be a victim? If not, keep your firearms loaded and within arms reach and when you carry, carry on red!!

SR

No, I do not want to be a victim, hence why I have a ccw, taught the fiancee to shoot (she loves it and is getting me to the range more often too), getting her a pistol of her choice eventually and her ccw soon, have an alarm system in our house and a dog that will alert us to any strange noises outside (which she does on a daily basis) and is aggressive enough to protect us with her life.

I was reading the thread that everyone was saying "i'm another idiot" and that they were changing their HD choices and no longer keeping chambered rounds in their HD guns.

Thanks for the clarifications! [Tooth]

[sniper7]

wow, I am extremely saddened at the number of rounds used in this test! Great to know those. I always kind of knew this after tossing some .22's into a fire as a kid while camping. Guess I am pretty safe with my ammo in metal or wood storage cabinets!

[sabot_round]

Ah, gotcha! Last night on a 4 night shift and I'm incredibly exhausted, not reading sentences clearly lol. I need sarcasm signs.



No, I do not want to be a victim, hence why I have a ccw, taught the fiancee to shoot (she loves it and is getting me to the range more often too), have an alarm system in our house and a dog that will alert us to any strange noises outside (which she does on a daily basis) and is aggressive enough to protect us with her life.

I was reading the thread that everyone was saying "i'm another idiot" and that they were changing their HD choices and no longer keeping chambered rounds in their HD guns.

Ahh very good!! My wife shoots a 44 Magnum very accurately (of course with my special loads[Muaha]) and she can put six rounds within 4" from 15 feet. That's not to bad for a 5'4" petite female.

[BuffCyclist]

Ahh very good!! My wife shoots a 44 Magnum very accurately (of course with my special loads[Muaha]) and she can put six rounds within 4" from 15 feet. That's not to bad for a 5'4" petite female.

Not to threadjack anymore, but there was a huge thread on here about how to introduce her to shooting. She shot my Glock 23 with a 9mm conversion barrel and loved it. She is an excellent shot too! The last time we went, I took some 1" pasters (the freebies they give to patch the holes on the big targets) and put those in random spots on the target and we made a game to see who could get the closest to them. She won, even shot one dead center at about 7yds. She wants to go again this weekend, and you won't see me complaining!

She's very open to the idea of getting her CCW and I think we may sign her up for the class in a few months (after holidays etc). Then we'll go shopping for her, but I think sh'd enjoy it more if she had a pistol that fit her perfectly now. The last trip she commented a lot about how big the G23 was in her hands.

Oh yea, did i mention that she also does jui jitsu? So thats more security for her too.

[Bailey Guns]

You have time to get to a gun that is not on you but you don't have half a second to rack the slide?

Maybe...maybe not. Why in the name of all that is holy would you have an unloaded, defensive gun? Count me in the IDIOT category. Any gun I plan to use defensively is ready to go.

Are you going to be able to "rack" the slide when your weak-side hand is injured? Or when it's busy keeping you from being stabbed or otherwise injured? That 1/2 second might be a lifetime. Alternatively you could train yourself so you feel more comfortable with a loaded gun.

[Bailey Guns]

sadly all my ammo is at the bottom of that crazy gun eating lake [Coffee]

Alright...that's it. I'm taking scuba lessons. Then I'm gonna find this mystical gun/ammo eating lake.

[BuffCyclist]

Maybe...maybe not. Why in the name of all that is holy would you have an unloaded, defensive gun? Count me in the IDIOT category. Any gun I plan to use defensively is ready to go.

Are you going to be able to "rack" the slide when your weak-side hand is injured? Or when it's busy keeping you from being stabbed or otherwise injured? That 1/2 second might be a lifetime. Alternatively you could train yourself so you feel more comfortable with a loaded gun.

Along those lines, my CCW instructor showed us several ways of racking the slide without the use of one hand. Its VERY difficult!

[sabot_round]

Well, I guess that all this answers the question as to who the idiot is??

[Bailey Guns]

Yes, it is. Not impossible, but difficult. Especially when you're fighting for your life.

[Vanniek71]

When I was young our house caught fire, and we had an ammo stash, it was really loud, I mean REALLY loud, but none of the firefighters were hurt, or even worried about it.

[Irving]

I keep four rounds chambered at once in my shotgun. Magazine tube is nearly the same as the barrel right?



Right?

[Flatline]

My point is that getting to a firearm takes how much time, but that people wont rack the slide on their firearm that takes a fraction of the time. If you have a gun on you then by all means have a round chambered, but leaving them loaded in your house is asking for trouble. People who are that concerned would have a gun on them, not have to go get one from somewhere else in the house.

Statistically your house is more likely to catch on fire than be broken into by an armed criminal when you are at home. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen or that you shouldn't prepare for it, but it is statistically extremely rare.

Now add to that all the kids who accidentally get killed by handguns. When the kids are under ten or so they typically just pull the trigger pointing at themselves or at their friends. They don't mean to shoot but that round chambered is usually the first and only shot fired (and if you are 100% sure that your kids have been taught good gun safety, just remember that all kids do things without thinking).

Responsible gun ownership should include responsible gun safety, take that how you choose.

[Tinelement]

Great video!

I'm an idiot too!

[ROFL1]

[sniper7]

easy flatline, just because other people don't do it your way doesn't mean their kids are going to blow their or their friends head off.

whats the next step, having a loaded magazine? a kid over 7 can probably rack the slide on most guns, heck, they might even know how to flip the safety off. what about revolvers? think they can cock the hammer back? oh...but it isn't on a loaded chamber, think they can do it twice?

what about if you have someone chasing you in your home after they push through the door as you open it thinking it is a neighbor or solicitor or something along those lines? you go running to the nearest gun only to find it isn't loaded. then what? throw it at them just before you take a baseball bat to the side of the face? or what about your wife or teenage kids who know how to use the gun? they are scared shitless and forget to cock the slide or are panicked and can't get it? they keep pulling but nothing happens. that might affect your conscience for a while.

and if you want to protect your kids, train them, or put the gun in an easy to access but hidden place that only you or you and other trusted adults know about where the kids won't find them.

[sniper7]

Couple on the nightstand, along w/ loaded REM870 and AR-15 under the heavenly sleep number bed. [M2]

soo...whats your number?[LOL]

[Great-Kazoo]

My point is that getting to a firearm takes how much time, but that people wont rack the slide on their firearm that takes a fraction of the time. If you have a gun on you then by all means have a round chambered, but leaving them loaded in your house is asking for trouble. People who are that concerned would have a gun on them, not have to go get one from somewhere else in the house.

Statistically your house is more likely to catch on fire than be broken into by an armed criminal when you are at home. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen or that you shouldn't prepare for it, but it is statistically extremely rare.

Now add to that all the kids who accidentally get killed by handguns. When the kids are under ten or so they typically just pull the trigger pointing at themselves or at their friends. They don't mean to shoot but that round chambered is usually the first and only shot fired (and if you are 100% sure that your kids have been taught good gun safety, just remember that all kids do things without thinking).

Responsible gun ownership should include responsible gun safety, take that how you choose.

Agreed that is why my guns are loaded. This Children in the house shit is old and worn. You have kids, you SECURE a gun the best way possible. YET be accessible IF a situation arose you needed it yesterday. They have this thing called Home Invasions, been picking up in popularity the last few years. NO MATTER How Safe You think your neighborhood is. It could very well be the headline on tonight's news.
Also Please clarify How I am asking for trouble?
Statistically? More people dial 911 over a dog barking than a woman screaming, statistically.
Off record most LE's will tell you a gun is useless if it's not loaded.
You seem to be another gun owner who knows what is better for me than i do. MMMMMMMMMM Where have i heard this shit before?????????? Oh yeah, VPC, Dems, why even on firearm boards. Tell you what, you do what works best for you and your comfort level, I will do and practice, what i know is best for both my wife and I.

[Flatline]

easy flatline, just because other people don't do it your way doesn't mean their kids are going to blow their or their friends head off.

whats the next step, having a loaded magazine? a kid over 7 can probably rack the slide on most guns, heck, they might even know how to flip the safety off. what about revolvers? think they can cock the hammer back? oh...but it isn't on a loaded chamber, think they can do it twice?

what about if you have someone chasing you in your home after they push through the door as you open it thinking it is a neighbor or solicitor or something along those lines? you go running to the nearest gun only to find it isn't loaded. then what? throw it at them just before you take a baseball bat to the side of the face? or what about your wife or teenage kids who know how to use the gun? they are scared shitless and forget to cock the slide or are panicked and can't get it? they keep pulling but nothing happens. that might affect your conscience for a while.

and if you want to protect your kids, train them, or put the gun in an easy to access but hidden place that only you or you and other trusted adults know about where the kids won't find them.

I'm telling you that that kids don't always do as they are told. Kids have shot themselves or others, that is fact and you cannot dispute that. Statically the risks associated with leaving an chambered gun unlocked is greater than the risk of armed home invasion.


Agreed that is why my guns are loaded. This Children in the house shit is old and worn. You have kids, you SECURE a gun the best way possible. YET be accessible IF a situation arose you needed it yesterday. They have this thing called Home Invasions, been picking up in popularity the last few years. NO MATTER How Safe You think your neighborhood is. It could very well be the headline on tonight's news.
Also Please clarify How I am asking for trouble?
Statistically? More people dial 911 over a dog barking than a woman screaming, statistically.
Off record most LE's will tell you a gun is useless if it's not loaded.
You seem to be another gun owner who knows what is better for me than i do. MMMMMMMMMM Where have i heard this shit before?????????? Oh yeah, VPC, Dems, why even on firearm boards. Tell you what, you do what works best for you and your comfort level, I will do and practice, what i know is best for both my wife and I.

The best way to secure weapons around kids is in a safe with a combo that they do not know and cannot figure out (no number or geometric patterns nor dates or numbers that they know). After you have a way to lock them up you need to educate them about safety, not just the later. Now you know the best way to secure weapons around kids, your welcome. If your saying that you don't want to do that and you want to leave them around then fine, that is your right under colorado law.

I do want YOU to find one experienced LEO (several years on the force) who will advocate for leaving loaded guns out around the house.

I would also like to apologize for hurting your feelings by advocating for personal responsibility in gun safety. (find me that LEO that says it's okay to leave loaded guns around before you retort that)

[clublights]

I do want YOU to find one experienced LEO (several years on the force) who will advocate for leaving loaded guns out around the house.

I would also like to apologize for hurting your feelings by advocating for personal responsibility in gun safety. (find me that LEO that says it's okay to leave loaded guns around before you retort that)

DONE! Already posted infact:


Maybe...maybe not. Why in the name of all that is holy would you have an unloaded, defensive gun? Count me in the IDIOT category. Any gun I plan to use defensively is ready to go.

Are you going to be able to "rack" the slide when your weak-side hand is injured? Or when it's busy keeping you from being stabbed or otherwise injured? That 1/2 second might be a lifetime. Alternatively you could train yourself so you feel more comfortable with a loaded gun.

Mouth meet foot ?


I keep four rounds chambered at once in my shotgun. Magazine tube is nearly the same as the barrel right?



Right?

I was wondering the same thing .. I keep a shotgun with rounds in the tube but not in the chamber ( being I want that clack clack of racking the shotgun as a clue to the bad guy .. I do keep a pistol cocked locked and ready to rock )

[Great-Kazoo]

I'm telling you that that kids don't always do as they are told. Kids have shot themselves or others, that is fact and you cannot dispute that. Statically the risks associated with leaving an chambered gun unlocked is greater than the risk of armed home invasion.



The best way to secure weapons around kids is in a safe with a combo that they do not know and cannot figure out (no number or geometric patterns nor dates or numbers that they know). After you have a way to lock them up you need to educate them about safety, not just the later. Now you know the best way to secure weapons around kids, your welcome. If your saying that you don't want to do that and you want to leave them around then fine, that is your right under colorado law.

I do want YOU to find one experienced LEO (several years on the force) who will advocate for leaving loaded guns out around the house.
My Late Brother 23 yrs, not counting previous 8yrs attached to Attorney Generals office.

I would also like to apologize for hurting your feelings by advocating for personal responsibility in gun safety. (find me that LEO that says it's okay to leave loaded guns around before you retort that)

The only thing you seem to want, is to dictate to me and other gun owners , the only way to be responsible is to have guns unloaded and secure. You fit the "mold" Of an LE who feels you and only you know what is right and safe when it comes to owning guns, unfortunately.
Lucky for me the ones i know in LE feel & think differently. I'd drop names but you probably would be on the phone, in the am, to their Chief trying to jam them up.
IF you read my 1st post you might have realized (Careful Police Observation) there are NO Children in our home. NEVER, Unless accompanied by an adult. My guns are, once again loaded and accessible by me or my wife at a moments notice. Perhaps you think dialing 911 and wait, vs me or any gun owner IF a Threat was present, defend our self with a.................loaded gun, is the way to go.
Once again you have your beliefs and i have mine. It does appear i am not the only "Idiot" who thinks the same.

I believe your interpretation and mine are different regarding guns around the house. i don't have them casually laying about like the tv remote. They are accessible but out of sight.
The one point we agree on is Education of kids around firearms. It would be more conducive to teach firearm safety / awareness in school instead of programing them how bad guns are.

[brianakell]

It's nice to know that if you wanted to build an "ammo bunker" basically all you need is two layers of 5/8" sheetrock to contain projectiles ( tho in most cases 1 would do .. the second is the backup)

I knew that they would not shoot of like inside of a chamber of a weapon but I didn't think they would still be so weak as to not even punch thru bunker gear at 15 feet.

Really makes me feel better living in an apartment knowing that it's rather unlikey to harm others. now I can up my ammo supply here [word]

I wonder if the ammo is stored in a " standard" ammo can and subjected to fire what would happen ?

Would the contained primer ignitions just blow the seals out on the ammo or would it blow a hole in the side ? ( would the mythbusters take this on to test?)

As to the loaded weapon and cook off.. the first warning in the video says it will fire as if you pulled the trigger. I don't think many of us keep more then one or two loaded and ready so the safety is a factor but I think that the ammo in the mag would cook off first ( the chamber providing a bit insulation to slow down the cook off) preventing the weapon from cycling (in an semi/full auto I suppose a revolver has X number of chambers but only one barrel could make for an interesting test .. what abotu the other X number of chambers not inline with the barrel at that moment) so that only one round would be a danger ( per weapon). I'm ok with one round being a danger compared to a couple thousand rounds in storage ( pretty good odds I say)

Little dents in the can. Was 9 or 45 ammo in a 50cal can. Fully engulfed for a couple hours. Can was probably close is not completely full

[GilpinGuy]

Agreed that is why my guns are loaded. This Children in the house shit is old and worn. You have kids, you SECURE a gun the best way possible. YET be accessible IF a situation arose you needed it yesterday. They have this thing called Home Invasions, been picking up in popularity the last few years. NO MATTER How Safe You think your neighborhood is. It could very well be the headline on tonight's news.
Also Please clarify How I am asking for trouble?
Statistically? More people dial 911 over a dog barking than a woman screaming, statistically.
Off record most LE's will tell you a gun is useless if it's not loaded.
You seem to be another gun owner who knows what is better for me than i do. MMMMMMMMMM Where have i heard this shit before?????????? Oh yeah, VPC, Dems, why even on firearm boards. Tell you what, you do what works best for you and your comfort level, I will do and practice, what i know is best for both my wife and I.

Jim is right on here IMHO. I either have a gun on me or within a second or so reach at all times in my home. The ones that are not on me are far out of reach of the 7 year old.

How am I asking for trouble again?

Finally, I think most people in general would tell you an unloaded gun is just a hunk of metal. Like a car without fuel is a hunk of metal. <sigh>

[GilpinGuy]

Oh yeah, the OP and the video! I got sidetracked... That was pretty cool seeing the various tests.

A few years ago, residents of Gilpin County got a "survey" that asked how many rounds of ammunition each household had stored. They claimed it was for the volunteer firefighters info in case they responded to your address. Like they would respond differently to 500 rounds compared to 2500 rounds? Please....

Everyone I know either didn't respond or checked "zero" on the survey. Now I don't even feel bad about it. [LOL]

[islandermyk]

I have my loaded Bulgarian "Lil bitch" beside my bed when I go to sleep with a few loaded mags laying around the house.... [hahhah-no]

.. but I do have a long hair cat that will f*ck sh*t up at any given moment [Coffee]

.. and to stay on topic... Pretty cool vid. Thanks for sharing [Beer]

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Idiot category for me too... Gun is always chambered and chilling in my OPEN safe at night.

That's right... My safe stays open at night. Does that make me double idiot?

[Flatline]

The only thing you seem to want, is to dictate to me and other gun owners , the only way to be responsible is to have guns unloaded and secure. You fit the "mold" Of an LE who feels you and only you know what is right and safe when it comes to owning guns, unfortunately.
Lucky for me the ones i know in LE feel & think differently. I'd drop names but you probably would be on the phone, in the am, to their Chief trying to jam them up.
IF you read my 1st post you might have realized (Careful Police Observation) there are NO Children in our home. NEVER, Unless accompanied by an adult. My guns are, once again loaded and accessible by me or my wife at a moments notice. Perhaps you think dialing 911 and wait, vs me or any gun owner IF a Threat was present, defend our self with a.................loaded gun, is the way to go.
Once again you have your beliefs and i have mine. It does appear i am not the only "Idiot" who thinks the same.

I believe your interpretation and mine are different regarding guns around the house. i don't have them casually laying about like the tv remote. They are accessible but out of sight.
The one point we agree on is Education of kids around firearms. It would be more conducive to teach firearm safety / awareness in school instead of programing them how bad guns are.

Your right, I will want names and departments, otherwise it's just as reliable as any other hearsay on the internet. (and no I don't expect you to be able/willing to do so, and i won't discount you for that)

And I did realize that you don't have kids from your posts, and your the one who said that 'the shit about kids being in the house is getting worn', then criticized about how long it would take to get to the gun if it was locked up insinuating that if you do have kids its better to have your guns out then locked up.

By the way kids find shit, they look. When I was a kid I found my Christmas presents early, the candy stashes, and unfortunately some of my parents' adult toys. Even if you hide them well kids will find your guns given enough time (IDK if you have grandkids or what ever that come over).


Jim is right on here IMHO. I either have a gun on me or within a second or so reach at all times in my home. The ones that are not on me are far out of reach of the 7 year old.

How am I asking for trouble again?

Finally, I think most people in general would tell you an unloaded gun is just a hunk of metal. Like a car without fuel is a hunk of metal. <sigh>

Can your seven year old move chairs and climb? Please tell me of this mysterious quick access solution that you have come up with that a kid couldn't figure out.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Your right, I will want names and departments, otherwise it's just as reliable as any other hearsay on the internet. (and no I don't expect you to be able/willing to do so, and i won't discount you for that)

And I did realize that you don't have kids from your posts, and your the one who said that 'the shit about kids being in the house is getting worn', then criticized about how long it would take to get to the gun if it was locked up insinuating that if you do have kids its better to have your guns out then locked up.

By the way kids find shit, they look. When I was a kid I found my Christmas presents early, the candy stashes, and unfortunately some of my parents' adult toys. Even if you hide them well kids will find your guns given enough time (IDK if you have grandkids or what ever that come over).



Can your seven year old move chairs and climb? Please tell me of this mysterious quick access solution that you have come up with that a kid couldn't figure out.

His seven year old is a smart cookie. I'm sure his kid knows better.

[GilpinGuy]

Can your seven year old move chairs and climb? Please tell me of this mysterious quick access solution that you have come up with that a kid couldn't figure out.

1) Hip
2) Nightstand when sleeping
3) Locked bathroom door when I'm showering, etc.
4) Locked in a safe (I almost always have at least one gun NOT in the safe)

You're right - the nightstand is within reach of the 7 yo. Any more questions?

I suppose the 7 yo could stalk into my bedroom when I'm asleep and take my pistol and do bad things before my wife, my dog, or I know he's there. It's POSSIBLE. But it's much more possible that a fucking asshole will break into my house. Nice try bro.

[Flatline]

1) Hip
2) Nightstand when sleeping
3) Locked bathroom door when I'm showering, etc.
4) Locked in a safe (I almost always have at least one gun NOT in the safe)

You're right - the nightstand is within reach of the 7 yo. Any more questions?

I suppose the 7 yo could stalk into my bedroom when I'm asleep and take my pistol and do bad things before my wife, my dog, or I know he's there. It's POSSIBLE. But it's much more possible that a fucking asshole will break into my house. Nice try bro.

Every parent believed that until they were left grieving from a tragedy.

Like I said before, statistically it isn't more likely that someone would break into you house while you are there than for a gun tragedy to occur.

[Bailey Guns]

My youngest 7 year old is 27 now and shoots guns for a living. He's probably safe around my loaded guns. My other "child" is 29 and lives out of state. He's also been handling guns since he was about 5. Education = Safety when it comes to guns.

Flatline, you're trying for a one-size-fits-all, draconian solution that doesn't necessarily apply to others. And your "stupid" remark was offensive and stupid. That's why you're catching so much grief.

I advocate leaving loaded, attended guns around the house for some, not all, people. Myself included. I spent almost 15 years between 2 major metro-area departments. You want my badge number, too? BTW...cops are generally some of the last people from whom you should elicit gun advice. Most of them only carry a gun because it's a job requirement. Most of them only shoot that gun because it's a job requirement. And many of them can't shoot for shit.

[Bailey Guns]

Furthermore, Flatline, you're full of shit when it comes to your made-up statistics regarding home invasions vs gun accidents. The following is from a United States Dept of Justice report:



Highlights

*An estimated 3.7 million burglaries occurred each year on average from 2003 to 2007.
*A household member was present in roughly 1 million burglaries and became victims of violent crimes in 266,560 burglaries.
*Simple assault (15%) was the most common form of violence when a resident was home and violence occurred. Robbery (7%) and rape (3%) were less likely to occur when a household member was present and violence occurred.
*Offenders were known to their victims in 65% of violent burglaries; offenders were strangers in 28%.
*Overall, 61% of offenders were unarmed when violence occurred during a burglary while a resident was present. About 12% of all households violently burglarized while someone was home faced an offender armed with a firearm.
*Households residing in single family units and higher density structures of 10 or more units were least likely to be burglarized (8 per 1,000 households) while a household member was present.
*Serious injury accounted for 9% and minor injury accounted for 36% of injuries sustained by household members who were home and experienced violence during a completed burglary.

Source: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt

The latest sources I could find (in a VERY brief search) revealed that 75 children aged 14 and under died from firearms accidents in 2005. Now, I'm no math major, but I'm pretty sure...in fact, I'm almost certain...that 266,560 is > 75.

I will concede 75 is too many. But statistically, your made up statistics are stupid.

[alxone]

wow somebody pissed of B.G. first thing in the morning .
if i hadn't lost all my guns and ammo in the gun eating lake , id keep my strippers , en blocs and mags full and be ready to rack a round any second . i have found that nothing makes people think twice like the sound of a round going into the chamber or a hammer being cocked .but like i said that is if all my toys were above the water line [Coffee]

oh yeah , carl : its not the scuba lessons its finding that crazy lake thats the problem . i think you need a witchdoctor or voodoo priestess to find it [Luck]

[Bailey Guns]

I beginning to think that maybe you're all full of shit and you didn't really loose any guns or ammo in this mysterious lake. At any rate, I hope you didn't have a round chambered when your gun fell overboard.

BTW: racking the slide is a target indicator. Just another reason it should already be done.

[alxone]

but what about the babies ! save the babies ! [Tooth]

[Bailey Guns]

I don't even like kids...

[alxone]

ha! i knew it ! you moved up to the hills just to keep the kids off your lawn ! [ROFL2]

[Goodburbon]

Idiot here.

My kids have access to loaded guns...Nothing hidden, as has been said kids will find it.

Education, education, education... All they have to do is ask and I'll allow them to FF any gun they choose. The 3YO was tested yesterday. I left my g19 on a chair (unloaded for the test). The 3yo walks up with his toy pistol in his hand. He says "dads gun, hot, don't touch" and walks away. A few days ago my 7yo asked to see the "sniper rifle" so it prompted a lesson. I always make time to show him anything he wants to know.. For christmas this year we're building him an AR.

[Great-Kazoo]

It comes down to EDUCATION AND PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY .
I'd venture to "guess" 100% of parents teach their kids about the "dangers" of drugs. Out of that 100% how many teach the same age groups about firearms?
Regarding the LE question and naming them. My family (not extended) but immediate has a combined total of 120 years LE, city, state & federal. I have yet to have one of them say You're an idiot or Stupid for having a loaded firearm in the house. We all agree, like you secure from prying hands / eyes is better than out in the open. I will not put an item that has the potential to save a family members life behind any thing that impedes anyone's fast access to them.
IF I followed your line of thinking, which you so staunchly defend answer me this. Where are your kitchen knives, forks & spoons? If i follow the line of thinking you advocate it would mean EVERYTHING that has the potential to cause harm / be fatal to children is under lock and key, makes sense to me. Unless of course you feel a butcher or carving knife presents no danger for kids.

FWIW: For BG I love kids. providing they are someone's else, or do not stay too long at our house.

[HoneyBadger]

Maybe...maybe not. Why in the name of all that is holy would you have an unloaded, defensive gun? Count me in the IDIOT category. Any gun I plan to use defensively is ready to go.

Are you going to be able to "rack" the slide when your weak-side hand is injured? Or when it's busy keeping you from being stabbed or otherwise injured? That 1/2 second might be a lifetime. Alternatively you could train yourself so you feel more comfortable with a loaded gun.

Good point about the possibility of having to protect yourself with your weak side hand while manipulating your weapon with your strong hand.

I don't keep my Glocks chambered if they are outside of a holster. If I am carrying a glock on me (in a holster) it is chambered. One of the big things I practice is 1 handed operation. If I'm carrying, I always have a belt or pocket or some improvised item to rack the slide on. If the gun has a manual safety and is being used for personal protection or self defense, it is absolutely chambered.

But lets remember here: everyone has different levels of comfort and training and even an unchambered .22short pistol is better than nothing.

[Flatline]

Furthermore, Flatline, you're full of shit when it comes to your made-up statistics regarding home invasions vs gun accidents. The following is from a United States Dept of Justice report:



The latest sources I could find (in a VERY brief search) revealed that 75 children aged 14 and under died from firearms accidents in 2005. Now, I'm no math major, but I'm pretty sure...in fact, I'm almost certain...that 266,560 is > 75.

I will concede 75 is too many. But statistically, your made up statistics are stupid.

Your research was too brief and you should read the entire document. It goes on to state that few of those are what you are preparing those. Most of those are invasions by retaliatory SOs, rival gang members, etc. If you are a cop you would know that from you experience as well. And the tragedies that can occur is not just limited to kids, how many SIs and HIs have guns on them that they acquired from someone they knew and weren't locked up?

Oh, and 75 is wrong, just over 3000 juveniles die per year from firearms.

My youngest 7 year old is 27 now and shoots guns for a living. He's probably safe around my loaded guns. My other "child" is 29 and lives out of state. He's also been handling guns since he was about 5. Education = Safety when it comes to guns.

Flatline, you're trying for a one-size-fits-all, draconian solution that doesn't necessarily apply to others. And your "stupid" remark was offensive and stupid. That's why you're catching so much grief.

I advocate leaving loaded, attended guns around the house for some, not all, people. Myself included. I spent almost 15 years between 2 major metro-area departments. You want my badge number, too? BTW...cops are generally some of the last people from whom you should elicit gun advice. Most of them only carry a gun because it's a job requirement. Most of them only shoot that gun because it's a job requirement. And many of them can't shoot for shit.

I don't need a badge number, but a name and department would be a start. And why do you think most cops don't advocate for everyone having a gun when they personally dealt with the crime that you want to protect yourself from?


It comes down to EDUCATION AND PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY .
I'd venture to "guess" 100% of parents teach their kids about the "dangers" of drugs. Out of that 100% how many teach the same age groups about firearms?
Regarding the LE question and naming them. My family (not extended) but immediate has a combined total of 120 years LE, city, state & federal. I have yet to have one of them say You're an idiot or Stupid for having a loaded firearm in the house. We all agree, like you secure from prying hands / eyes is better than out in the open. I will not put an item that has the potential to save a family members life behind any thing that impedes anyone's fast access to them.
IF I followed your line of thinking, which you so staunchly defend answer me this. Where are your kitchen knives, forks & spoons? If i follow the line of thinking you advocate it would mean EVERYTHING that has the potential to cause harm / be fatal to children is under lock and key, makes sense to me. Unless of course you feel a butcher or carving knife presents no danger for kids.

FWIW: For BG I love kids. providing they are someone's else, or do not stay too long at our house.

No, the mechanisms involved in a knife are very different compared to firearms. Knives cause immediate pain before causing life threatening injury. Guns produce fatal wounds before the infliction of pain indicates harm. Furthermore the psychosomatics of knives are different as well, as they are always sharp and cannot be make 'safe'. Guns are perceived to be able to be made 'safe' by kids.

To turn this into laymans speach for you, pediatric knife injuries are usually minor while pediatric gun wounds are usually fatal or debilitating.

[HoneyBadger]

No, the mechanisms involved in a knife are very different compared to firearms. Knives cause immediate pain before causing life threatening injury.


Obviously you don't know how to handle a knife... [facepalm]

[Ashton]

You mean hollywood lied to me?!?!?!

[AK47 Ranger]

is being at the bottom of chatfield safe enough?

[Vanniek71]

No, the mechanisms involved in a knife are very different compared to firearms. Knives cause immediate pain before causing life threatening injury. Guns produce fatal wounds before the infliction of pain indicates harm. Furthermore the psychosomatics of knives are different as well, as they are always sharp and cannot be make 'safe'. Guns are perceived to be able to be made 'safe' by kids.

To turn this into laymans speach for you, pediatric knife injuries are usually minor while pediatric gun wounds are usually fatal or debilitating.

if a knife is used right, the person being cut usually doesn't even know they have been cut.....I just was in a class, there is a 90% chance of you surviving a gunshot wound if care is given for the gunshot wound in a appropriate amount of time (I can't remember exact timeframe but I think it was within 5 minutes) On the other hand, 85% of the people that recieved knife wounds that were treated in the same amount of time died..........

[ben4372]

It happens that quick. Each to his or her own, me they are loaded. I do not need to justify my actions to you or anyone else. You prefer unloaded good for you.
FWIW: i also carry hot too.
why wouldn't you?

[Bailey Guns]

Your research was too brief and you should read the entire document. It goes on to state that few of those are what you are preparing those. Most of those are invasions by retaliatory SOs, rival gang members, etc. If you are a cop you would know that from you experience as well. And the tragedies that can occur is not just limited to kids, how many SIs and HIs have guns on them that they acquired from someone they knew and weren't locked up?

Oh, I see. Now we have conditions. What the hell difference does it make? If I were a woman and had a psycho ex-boyfriend who invaded my home and killed me it doesn't matter?

Reading further into the DOJ report we find this:



One or more household members knew the offenders in some manner in 65% of the 266,560 burglaries that took place while someone was present and experienced violence (table 17). Overall, household members knew approximately a third of these offenders as intimates (current or former) (31%), or relatives, well-known individuals, or household acquaintances (34%). A stranger perpetrated the violence in 28% of households burglarized while someone was home and violence occurred.

So, according to my calculator, that equals 74,636.8 home invasions occurred where the invader was a stranger and where violence was committed against an occupant of the home.


Oh, and 75 is wrong, just over 3000 juveniles die per year from firearms.

That's funny. Because I just did a query at the CDC's website that tells me that 606 people, of all ages, died from firearms accidents nationwide in 2010. So I seriously doubt your 3000 number is anywhere close to being correct. What I did find is a number very close to 3000 (approx 2947) from various leftist, anti-gun "save the children" websites. This is the number of children, aged 0-19, that were killed by firearms under all circumstances...homicide, suicide, etc. I'm sure there were some gang-related deaths, and other non-accidental deaths in that number as well. And half of the approx 3000 number was in the 18-19 age group, the other half was 0-17. In my world 18 and 19 years of age = adult...not child. Sorry...your numbers don't add up.



I don't need a badge number, but a name and department would be a start. And why do you think most cops don't advocate for everyone having a gun when they personally dealt with the crime that you want to protect yourself from?

You don't need that information. Why don't you tell me about your law enforcement experience. I find it hilarious when people want to tell me what I should or shouldn't know about being a cop when they never were and don't have a clue what it takes to do the job. It has no bearing on your bullshit statistics. Furthermore, most cops I worked with DO advocate for private gun ownership and training. You obviously know dick about being a cop.


No, the mechanisms involved in a knife are very different compared to firearms. Knives cause immediate pain before causing life threatening injury. Guns produce fatal wounds before the infliction of pain indicates harm. Furthermore the psychosomatics of knives are different as well, as they are always sharp and cannot be make 'safe'. Guns are perceived to be able to be made 'safe' by kids.

To turn this into laymans speach for you, pediatric knife injuries are usually minor while pediatric gun wounds are usually fatal or debilitating.

I don't necessarily buy this, either. And that's why many of us have made the statement re: kids and guns that EDUCATION = SAFETY. That's part of the goal...to teach the kid that firearms are dangerous and to handle them properly. But thanks for putting it into simple terms us idiots and stupid people can understand.

To sum it up, let's assume your number of 3000 is correct. It's not, but let's assume it is. Explain to me how 3,000 is greater than 74,636.8 because I'm just dying to learn how to do this "new math". I'll remind you of what you said:


Statically the risks associated with leaving an chambered gun unlocked is greater than the risk of armed home invasion.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Oh, I see. Now we have conditions. What the hell difference does it make? If I were a woman and had a psycho ex-boyfriend who invaded my home and killed me it doesn't matter?

Reading further into the DOJ report we find this:



So, according to my calculator, that equals 74,636.8 home invasions occurred where the invader was a stranger and where violence was committed against an occupant of the home.



That's funny. Because I just did a query at the CDC's website that tells me that 606 people, of all ages, died from firearms accidents nationwide in 2010. So I seriously doubt your 3000 number is anywhere close to being correct. What I did find is a number very close to 3000 (approx 2947) from various leftist, anti-gun "save the children" websites. This is the number of children, aged 0-19, that were killed by firearms under all circumstances...homicide, suicide, etc. I'm sure there were some gang-related deaths, and other non-accidental deaths in that number as well. And half of the approx 3000 number was in the 18-19 age group, the other half was 0-17. In my world 18 and 19 years of age = adult...not child. Sorry...your numbers don't add up.




You don't need that information. Why don't you tell me about your law enforcement experience. I find it hilarious when people want to tell me what I should or shouldn't know about being a cop when they never were and don't have a clue what it takes to do the job. It has no bearing on your bullshit statistics. Furthermore, most cops I worked with DO advocate for private gun ownership and training. You obviously know dick about being a cop.



I don't necessarily buy this, either. And that's why many of us have made the statement re: kids and guns that EDUCATION = SAFETY. That's part of the goal...to teach the kid that firearms are dangerous and to handle them properly. But thanks for putting it into simple terms us idiots and stupid people can understand.

To sum it up, let's assume your number of 3000 is correct. It's not, but let's assume it is. Explain to me how 3,000 is greater than 74,636.8 because I'm just dying to learn how to do this "new math". I'll remind you of what you said:

Please tell me you're coming to the BBQ/Range day.... I need to hug you for posting this awesomeness..... :D

[Bailey Guns]

Well, hell. Nobody told me there was gonna be hugs.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Well, hell. Nobody told me there was gonna be hugs.

Hot Dogs, Burgers, Fried Turkey, Smoked Beef Briskit, "Cofi's World Famous Potatoe Salad", and Josh's Girly Green Stuff too!

[Great-Kazoo]

I don't need a badge number, but a name and department would be a start. And why do you think most cops don't advocate for everyone having a gun when they personally dealt with the crime that you want to protect yourself from?

And your pedigree is??????? The only thing i see if i actually gave out said info, would be you calling the PD or based upon your "mentality" Internal Affairs telling them they have le's in their dept unfit for duty. I have run in to cops like you before. It's ok for me, i'm a cop but not ok for you because you're not. Who i "know" on the job and what they have told me is what i have said already. Your attitude regarding what I or anyone else chooses to do with their gun is fucking insane.
I know you're the guy writing citations for the trash cans left out or snow not removed in a timely manner.
You and the other flag burning members here, make a great couple. Anti-gun, Pro Obama IDIOTS instilling your belief system on everyone else. Off base perhaps, however that is how you come across.
I AM A COP AND I KNOW BETTER, THAN YOU CIVILIANS, WHEN IT COMES TO GUNS

Most LE's believe you should be armed and able to protect yourself, LE's are Reactive, Not Proactive. You don't sit in front of someones house waiting for a crime to happen. You respond after someone calls 911.
You, who the hell knows what you do, based on your attitude, nothing positive in to community.

[Great-Kazoo]

Well, hell. Nobody told me there was gonna be hugs.

There's gonna be hugs i might change my schedule and show up. Then again with all the Idiots who have loaded guns who knows????????????????

[alxone]

There's gonna be hugs i might change my schedule and show up. Then again with all the Idiots who have loaded guns who knows????????????????if i didnt have to work id be all over it and i would be happy to hang out with a bunch for armed people , just one less thing for me to worry about .
[Coffee]

[Bailey Guns]

There's gonna be hugs i might change my schedule and show up. Then again with all the Idiots who have loaded guns who knows????????????????

Ohh...that's a good point. Maybe Flatline will be there to make us all statistically safe.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Everything Flatline says makes me think of this...

https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/10/16/AMeGJRwzXkOHatUD41rHVw2.jpg

[Flatline]

Oh, I see. Now we have conditions. What the hell difference does it make? If I were a woman and had a psycho ex-boyfriend who invaded my home and killed me it doesn't matter?

Reading further into the DOJ report we find this:



So, according to my calculator, that equals 74,636.8 home invasions occurred where the invader was a stranger and where violence was committed against an occupant of the home.



That's funny. Because I just did a query at the CDC's website that tells me that 606 people, of all ages, died from firearms accidents nationwide in 2010. So I seriously doubt your 3000 number is anywhere close to being correct. What I did find is a number very close to 3000 (approx 2947) from various leftist, anti-gun "save the children" websites. This is the number of children, aged 0-19, that were killed by firearms under all circumstances...homicide, suicide, etc. I'm sure there were some gang-related deaths, and other non-accidental deaths in that number as well. And half of the approx 3000 number was in the 18-19 age group, the other half was 0-17. In my world 18 and 19 years of age = adult...not child. Sorry...your numbers don't add up.




You don't need that information. Why don't you tell me about your law enforcement experience. I find it hilarious when people want to tell me what I should or shouldn't know about being a cop when they never were and don't have a clue what it takes to do the job. It has no bearing on your bullshit statistics. Furthermore, most cops I worked with DO advocate for private gun ownership and training. You obviously know dick about being a cop.



I don't necessarily buy this, either. And that's why many of us have made the statement re: kids and guns that EDUCATION = SAFETY. That's part of the goal...to teach the kid that firearms are dangerous and to handle them properly. But thanks for putting it into simple terms us idiots and stupid people can understand.

To sum it up, let's assume your number of 3000 is correct. It's not, but let's assume it is. Explain to me how 3,000 is greater than 74,636.8 because I'm just dying to learn how to do this "new math". I'll remind you of what you said:

By the way, that is 3000 killed, how many people are killed from the home invasions. And just because someone does not know you who breaks into your home doesn't mean that that person didn't precipitate an attack. Rival gang members don't know each other and the majority of the remainder of those statistics. And I'm including SIs and HIs in my numbers of dead kids since they wouldn't have otherwise had access to a gun. Also as I stated earlier, kids are not the only risk being accounted for, they are just one of them.

And I didn't ask for cops who advocate for gun ownership, I asked you to provide a cop who advocates for people to keep guns loaded with a round in the chamber around the house. Two VERY different things.


I don't need a badge number, but a name and department would be a start. And why do you think most cops don't advocate for everyone having a gun when they personally dealt with the crime that you want to protect yourself from?

And your pedigree is??????? The only thing i see if i actually gave out said info, would be you calling the PD or based upon your "mentality" Internal Affairs telling them they have le's in their dept unfit for duty. I have run in to cops like you before. It's ok for me, i'm a cop but not ok for you because you're not. Who i "know" on the job and what they have told me is what i have said already. Your attitude regarding what I or anyone else chooses to do with their gun is fucking insane.
I know you're the guy writing citations for the trash cans left out or snow not removed in a timely manner.
You and the other flag burning members here, make a great couple. Anti-gun, Pro Obama IDIOTS instilling your belief system on everyone else. Off base perhaps, however that is how you come across.
I AM A COP AND I KNOW BETTER, THAN YOU CIVILIANS, WHEN IT COMES TO GUNS

Most LE's believe you should be armed and able to protect yourself, LE's are Reactive, Not Proactive. You don't sit in front of someones house waiting for a crime to happen. You respond after someone calls 911.
You, who the hell knows what you do, based on your attitude, nothing positive in to community.

Being a medic and doing rescue. I'm not using that to reinforce my claims, though you'll probably love that I do both public and department education on this stuff. I would say I do some positive stuff for the community, but maybe you do more locking up some lady for having joint on her and giving out tickets for running stop signs. That is assuming your patrol and not a jailer or sworn court guard.

On that note, you do know that romney passed more anti gun legislation when he was the governor of massachusets than obama has in the white house right? If your light headed and have chest pain now I would advise you to call 911, I don't work windsor or anywhere else up north so you won't have to worry about me showing up.

[clublights]

Ok Time out Kids... all of you STFU. This is my thread so I'm going to throw a bitch fit on this whole damn thing.

Flatline..
You have been provided with " A cop that advocates keeping loaded weapons around the house" Bailey Guns is a retired LEO with over 15 years in uniform. is that not good enough for you ?

You expect us to name officers and departments??? Dude this is the god damn internet. I won;t even give you MY name.. you have no reason to know it unless we have a deal on the trading post. I won't give anyone my name on here unless there is a reason. and so you can do.. whatever the hell it is you think your going to do with said name/dept. is well.... not gunna happen.

Look your entitled to your opinion on the safe keeping of weapons in a household. you know who's house you can control? ONLY YOURS. While I understand your " think of the children" attitude guess what ... many of us either don't have children .. or they are all grown up, Or we feel they are taught well enough, smart enough to not be an issue. Don't like it ? Don't let your kids play at their houses. Simple as it comes.


And just a bit of FYI... when you blanket statement that people are "idiots" for doing something.. chances are you are going to get some backlash like a whole fuckload of it.

As to the stats ..........

Try some real research yourself
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_06.pdf
Page 40
TOTAL Across ALL Age Groups in 2011 was 851 (606 in 2010) deaths by firearms accident

Please tell us where you get your 3000 number for JUST "children". And BTW... The CDC is not exactly a gun friendly organization. but numbers don't lie I found this with 3 mins of looking I'm sure if I read longer I can find the numbers Bailey has posted above....

To Jim...............
I'll just say this to you my friend:

Never argue with an idiot.. they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience .

[clublights]

if the stats I gave above are not enough for you ......


use this
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html

set for unintentional( IE an accident) set for firearms set for 2010... age group of <1 to 17 ( at 18 your an adult damn it ) guess what it spits out? total number of accidental deaths by firearms in that age group in 2010? 98.


And with this ... I'm going to take my own advice... and stop being dragged down .

[alxone]

damn lights you missed the perfect chance to do this
will you guys stop having a purse fight [handbags]

truth be told i keep a brick in my purse [Coffee]

[clublights]

damn lights you missed the perfect chance to do this
will you guys stop having a purse fight [handbags]

truth be told i keep a brick in my purse [Coffee]


Man if I had seen that smiley .. I SO woulda used it !!!!

And it's not a purse!!... It's a European man's bag ( complete with brick) !!!!

[alxone]

Man if I had seen that smiley .. I SO woulda used it !!!!

And it's not a purse!!... It's a European man's bag ( complete with brick) !!!![LOL]

[Bailey Guns]

Flatline...

Rarely does someone's inability to grasp simple concepts and facts push me to the edge of insanity. However, you seem to have a special gift for that. So I'm just going to assume that any attempt to continue a somewhat intelligent discussion with you will only lead to me having to start the day off by drinking...a lot. I'm not going to do that. I'll just take my normal dose of BP meds, announce to the world that Flatline is the "winner" and go about the rest of my day.

Otherwise, the second-hand stupidity I'm being exposed to by arguing with you poses a far greater danger to my safety than either a loaded gun or a home invasion.

I will, however, thank my lucky stars that you're not conducting (at least as far as I know) "department education on this stuff" in my area. The general public is misinformed enough as it is...they really don't need your "help".

Have a nice day.

[Great-Kazoo]

Flatline...

Rarely does someone's inability to grasp simple concepts and facts push me to the edge of insanity. However, you seem to have a special gift for that. So I'm just going to assume that any attempt to continue a somewhat intelligent discussion with you will only lead to me having to start the day off by drinking...a lot. I'm not going to do that. I'll just take my normal dose of BP meds, announce to the world that Flatline is the "winner" and go about the rest of my day.

Otherwise, the second-hand stupidity I'm being exposed to by arguing with you poses a far greater danger to my safety than either a loaded gun or a home invasion.

I will, however, thank my lucky stars that you're not conducting (at least as far as I know) "department education on this stuff" in my area. The general public is misinformed enough as it is...they really don't need your "help".

Have a nice day.

True Dat or Dis^. Great laugh regarding the drinking, More.

To Jim...............
I'll just say this to you my friend:

Never argue with an idiot.. they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience .

Without this i am never challenged to climb back up out of the gutter.

Off to Denver yea