Die Brands and Features- Experience and Preference

[bigmyk2k]

I'm going to add another reloading question for you all, as I am adding metallic to my shotshell reloading. I have a 9mm die set that I am going to start out that caliber with (Lee 4-die set, including factory crimp die, which I got for $15 barely used), but I want feedback from you more experienced folks for my future purchases.

I have already asked about the RCBS X-Sizer dies, and while they are a great product, it seems they are meant for a higher volume reloader than what I will ever be.

The calibers I will be looking for initially are .45 ACP, and .308 Win.- so, another straight jacket pistol, and a shouldered rifle. I will likely eventually branch out into other calibers, but I don't see myself ever loading more than 1000 rounds of any single caliber for personal use in a given month (frankly, 500 is probably pushing it). Though, as I am looking at this as a hobby unto itself, it may happen that I decide to make and sell rounds.

I'll be initially reloading on a single stage, and saving up for a progressive like the Dillon 550 or 650, and imagine that I want sets that will be usable on both, but I could be wrong.

I would like your opinions and experience on brand preference, as well as what specific combination of features/dies works best in your opinion. For a non-competition shooter, reloading mainly for practice and hunting, what is going to be best, or best bang for the buck? What should I avoid?

One last question, I have seen- in other threads- guys mention that they are willing to show you the ropes on their setup, if you can come to them. However, these specific instances have been in Castle Rock or farther South. As I live in Longmont, I was wondering if there was anyone willing to give a similar offer in the North end of the Front Range- perhaps Broomfield/Erie to Ft. Collins. I am off 1st and 3rd Fridays, and that would be the ideal day for me to do it, but I can be flexible.

Thanks in advance for the help!

[Zombie Steve]

If you're starting with pistol, just make sure the sizer die has a carbide ring in it (you won't have to lube cases). I like the Lyman setup a little better than RCBS (mainly easier to take apart and clean out), but I use both and they work just fine. Dillon dies are very good too. I'm not a huge fan of Lee anything, but I have a friend that really likes his Lee dies because they seem to size down a little further than what he was using before, and get rid of Glock bulge slightly better. IMHO, with all Lee products, it's hit or miss. Might get a good one, might get a turd.

If you're going to a progressive eventually, you might look for a set that has a dedicated separate taper crimp die (not just part of the bullet seating die). You'll likely want seating and taper crimp to happen in two different stations. Also, you'll want a flare die that can do a powder drop through it. You won't need this feature with a single stage, but it will be a must if you ever plan on getting a Dillon. If that's the case, I think you're looking at Dillon or Lyman 4-die sets.

If you can't find anyone up north to show you the ropes, let me know. I'd be happy to walk you through it.

[Tim K]

Redding Type S bushing dies for .308.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/271533/redding-type-s-match-bushing-2-die-set-308-winchester

I've been around and around on rifle dies, and I think this is the ultimate. Go cheaper on the seater if you want to save money, but the Type S bushing die is great.

[spqrzilla]

In general, I'm not a Lee fan but their die sets are decent value. I think all the die manufacturers do a decent job but at different price points. The Redding dies are higher quality but I've seldom been driven to them because usually the Lee or RCBS will work for me.

For my Dillon progressive press, in pistol calibers, the Dillon die sets do end up working best for the reasons mentioned.

[anomad]

I'm not a very sophisticated reloader, just casual shooting, some matches (but I am not really competitive) and hunting. I have Lee, Dillon, RCBS, Redding, and CH4D dies to do various things.

Lee and RCBS work just fine for my single stage stuff. And Dillon for progressive. I do use lee factory crimp dies on the 550 though. Seating and crimping in one step has never worked for me.
Unlike Zombie Steve, I prefer to lube all my cases, even with carbide sizing rings. Makes it smoooove...

Funny thing with the Lee dies, I have several sets for different calibers, but never could get what I wanted with .45 acp. RCBS dies in that caliber gave much better results for me. May have been operator error, but the lee dies I had in that caliber didn't agree with me. The guy I sold them to likes them just fine.

Pick up a Lee nutcracker press if you're just depriming and stockpiling brass while you experiment and test the waters. I use my nutcracker all the time. Even with a 550 and bench mounted single stage at my disposal. Its loaded a lot of 45 Colt at the cabin over the years.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/665540/lee-breech-lock-hand-press

[SA Friday]

Well, for 9mm, 40, and 45 ACP, I use an EGW undersize resizing die and then basic RCBS flaring and seating/crimp dies. I've loaded at least a quarter million rounds with these set-ups. No bullet set back, accurate, easy to set up. If you dig deep enough into the reloading section, I did a whole thread about bullet set-back on pistol reloads and how to avoid it. CRIMP is not the answer.

BTW, if you have a Lee FCD, take that Fn thing and throw it in the trash. It's a tool looking for a problem, a gimmick, an incorrect fix for things that go wrong and should be fixed by other means. They are the devil and will cause more issues than fix. BTDTGTT.

[colo-pr]

I use for pistol Lee carbide and RCBS, for Rifle Redding by far... for me Redding is the best die that i tried, Dillon dies are good but Redding are superior, the bushing dies are awesome. I have Redding for some years for 223, 308 and 30-06 and all dies looks like new but in the meantime my Lee and RCBS dies are very rusty.

I had 2 Dillons 650 and both i sold it because in my opinion if you not need to reload a thousand rounds in an hour or if your consumption of ammo is 100-200 rounds a month you dont need it. I actually use and love a Reeding Big Boss 2 single press and Redding T-7 Turret Press and im very happy, i reload 9mm, 45 ACP, 45 LC, 357Mag, 38 spl, 223, 308, 30-06

i forgot say that Redding is the best?

[SA Friday]

He means Redding.

[colo-pr]

He means Redding.

opps, i fixed, thanks a lot :-)

[anomad]

BTW, if you have a Lee FCD, take that Fn thing and throw it in the trash. It's a tool looking for a problem, a gimmick, an incorrect fix for things that go wrong and should be fixed by other means. They are the devil and will cause more issues than fix. BTDTGTT.

Some would say the same thing about the EGW undersize resizing die...

[bigmyk2k]

As I expected, there is some dissension in the ranks. I am about to go look up the thread on bullet set-back, but would anyone be able to expound on the specific reasons that any given die is crap, or any given die is awesome?
I'll grant that a Redding Type S die- or any other die in that price range- is likely significantly better than a $30-50 die set, but I am not really in a position to drop that kind of change on something I am just starting out on, unless there is a REALLY compelling argument for doing so.

[Zombie Steve]

It will be some time before bushing dies will make a difference for you. You might never go down the rabbit hole of turning case necks, checking concentricity, annealing cases, et cetera. Just get a normal die set. Experimenting with different bullets, powders and powder charges will get you 95+% of what you want to accomplish with handloading. Like Tim told me not long ago - when you get to 1/2 moa groups and you are trying to figure out how to get them down to 1/4 moa groups, that's when things like bushing dies will make a difference.

My analogy is it would be like me going to go play golf and getting really hung up on what type of ball and clubs I use. I have no idea how to hit a golf ball. Does it matter that I suck with decent clubs when I could suck just as bad with really good clubs? Point is, you gotta jump in somewhere.

Hope this helps. [Coffee]

[O2HeN2]

...and saving up for a progressive like the Dillon 550 or 650, and imagine that I want sets that will be usable on both, but I could be wrong.
Spring for the Dillon pistol dies. The cores are removable on the seat and crimp dies so when they get gunked up with bullet lube you can remove, clean and replace them without changing your settings.

Replacing dies you already own with Dillon dies is a luxury move, but if you don't have dies yet and think that a progressive, any progressive is in your future, get the Dillon pistol dies.

O2

[Hoser]

Redding and Forster dies are the best as far as rifle goes. They are the most internally perfect dies avail unless you want to start spending a buttload on custom dies that are made one at a time. If you get their micrometer seat dies it is painfully easy to adjust seating depth.

I don’t “get” the X dies. Brass will stretch, you cant stop that. I see the X die as a gimmick.

Lee pistol and rifle dies are ok, but just ok. Too many QC issues for me to use them.

For pistol dies I use a bunch of different flavors. Dillon, Redding and Forster. As 02 mentioned, the Dillon dies are the best avail if you shoot lead. However they are meant for progressive machines. If you get a set of Dillon dies for a single stage, you will need to order a belling die because Dillon machines powder measure die does this step.

I really like the Redding Tungsten Carbide size die. It sizes the case all the way (as close as they can get anyway) down to the base and is very slick. For jacketed ammo I again use the Redding Competition seat die. Almost all my crimp dies are Dillon.

I dont care for the Lee Factory Crimp Die. With lead bullets, accuracy can suffer depending on your bullet diameter and brass wall thickness. And they make my machines "clunky." All the ones I bought now reside in my parts bin. For me it was wasted money and a gimmick, but I had to try them with an open mind.

Do your shoulder a favor, use Hornady One Shot case lube for pistol brass. It makes the brass resize about a million times easier.

If you plan on screwing your dies in and out of a press often, get a bunch of the Hornady lock rings. Lock them in place and use a wrench to remove/install them. Good stuff.

If I was stupid enough to take up golf, two things would happen. I would get lessons and I would get the best sticks avail within my budget. I like to know if something does not happen like I wanted, it was operator error and not equipment error. I would take up fishing and cross dressing long before golf.

[spqrzilla]

BTW, if you have a Lee FCD, take that Fn thing and throw it in the trash. It's a tool looking for a problem, a gimmick, an incorrect fix for things that go wrong and should be fixed by other means. They are the devil and will cause more issues than fix. BTDTGTT.Preach it loud Brother Friday.

[spqrzilla]

I would take up fishing and cross dressing long before golf.Well, sure ... you already got all the gear for that .. [ROFL1]

[Zombie Steve]

If I was stupid enough to take up golf, two things would happen. I would get lessons and I would get the best sticks avail within my budget. I like to know if something does not happen like I wanted, it was operator error and not equipment error.

I get that. I suppose that's why I was steering him away from Lee dies. I'll agree on the factory crimp die - waste of money.

I suppose it comes down to what the OP is trying to achieve. Lots of guys just want some cheap range fodder or decent hunting loads. Lyman, RCBS and other inexpensive dies can do that for them and produce higher quality ammo than they can buy. If he falls down the rabbit hole and starts doing benchrest competition, or Hoser's varmint matches, then the extra money spent on high-end bushing dies makes a lot more sense.

Again, I think the OP's biggest issue in front of him isn't all hardware at this point. It's mostly learning how to reload. Gotta jump in somewhere.

If you can't find anyone up north to help you and you're willing to drive to the Springs, I'd be willing to help you out.

[O2HeN2]

If you get a set of Dillon dies for a single stage, you will need to order a belling die because Dillon machines powder measure die does this step.
You're right, forgot about that!

O2

[SA Friday]

Some would say the same thing about the EGW undersize resizing die...
It's the difference between reloading a thousand a year vs 30-40 thousand a year, experience. There's a whole thread, pics and everything about it in this section I did years ago. Still don't believe me, go over to the Brian Enos Forum and ask the guys reloading that many or more every year how they feel about Lee FCD and the EGW undersized die. There are always a few proponents the opposite way, but by a huge majority they will tell you throw the FCD in the trash or give it to an enemy, then install the EGW.

The FCD is basically a two piece die. The bottom part is basically a resizing die, the top part is a crimp die with different mechanics. So, you resize, flare, and seat/crimp only to resize and crimp a second time. Why not just do it right the first time and avoid squeezing the crap out of the bullet and case neck with the FCD.

I'm all for testing things. Give it a try, especially with lead 147 gr bullets in 9mm and without a undersized die.

[bigmyk2k]

I'm all for testing things. Give it a try, especially with lead 147 gr bullets in 9mm and without a undersized die.

OK, I'll admit, my sarcasm sense tells me that this is BS, but I am curious what the implied consequence is.


I suppose it comes down to what the OP is trying to achieve. Lots of guys just want some cheap range fodder or decent hunting loads.

This would be an accurate assessment of my intent in asking the question. I would make the caveat that I want my cheap range fodder to be accurate enough to transfer practice and experience to my hunting shooting.

[SA Friday]

OK, I'll admit, my sarcasm sense tells me that this is BS, but I am curious what the implied consequence is.
Yes and no... I was having problems with some of my 9mm loads years back. I tried the FCD to get rid of the problems. It got rid of the feeding problem (bulge at the webbing) I was having and then all these other problems started to crop up. I was seeing visible set-back on rounds loaded into the chamber and then taken out. This was with a Glock 13 lb recoil spring.... Tightened down the crimp a little more and the set-back disappeared and I started getting key holing. Went to an EGW sizing die and the set-back disappeared, the original problem that the FCD fixed but with serious consequences. Went back to the other dies and removed the FCD. Problems gone. I had to experiment quite a bit to figure out what was going on, but I learned a lot.

Had a couple of guppied rounds in 40 cal jam up a competition gun during a competition. Got an undersized die in 40 and the jams disappeared forever. the EGW resized all the way to the webbing and gets rid of guppie brass issues.

Had issues with cast 45 ACP bullets setting back during initial testing. I went directly to an undersize die and problem gone.

This was all over the last 7 years. It took quite a bit of failure, more than a few hours of experimentation than the above shows, and thousands of rounds to figure out. I've always experimented with reloading. CHA-LEE used to make fun of me pretty regular for spending more time experimenting with reloads more than practicing shooting. But, I learned a boat-load about what will work and what won't work with straight walled semi-auto pistol rounds playing around with this stuff. I've done the same with rifle rounds over the years too. I have some older threads on here about rifle reloads also and what to look for during working loads up for a rifle. Unfortunately, full time college has pretty much taken me away from testing stuff and writing it up here on the site. I'm hoping to do some more after this month.

Everyone is different. Some are just looking to do some basic reloading and once they have a decent set-up and recipe, they don't want to play around anymore. Others have an intrinsic drive to experiment. Some find reloading monotonous and decide to never do it again... It depends on where you want to take reloading if experimenting is something you want to do down the road. I suspect since you are just starting out and asking what set-up to use and not have to figure out what works, you are just beginning. If you know you are going to start playing around with different set-ups and materials, then learning the initial process and then experimenting with different dies will be good for you. If not, listen to the guys who are reloading buttloads of ammo and set up and load.

Steve and I are both experimenters. I know for a fact we've both shot rounds off just to reload the brass. Hoser has probably reloaded double the rounds that Steve and I have reloaded combined, and played around with way more of the reloading devices on the market. All three of us use a spattering of different equipment, but when we agree on something, I would listen. It will save you a ton of time, money, and energy.

[bigmyk2k]

So, if I am reading it right, the breakdown is something like this:
Redding- Great dies (I assume this is true at all price points? I am most likely making this purchase in the $30 range on Natchez, as that will get me going, instead of having to wait to make the $60-75/set purchases later)
Forster- Mentioned less, but also always positive
Dillon- Great dies, and almost imperative with a progressive, but need an extra die for single stage reloading (which I will be doing to start, Ill prob get these when I get a progressive, but start out with something else)
RCBS and Lyman- Generally good, some neutral, but no bad reviews.
Lee- Generally neutral or bad opinions

And here is the one that is surprising:
Hornady- Not even mentioned.
This is surprising to me because their Custom Grade pistol dies were what I was leaning towards for .45 ACP when I started this thread. Seems a good combo of features for the price. But, they are Nitride and not carbide.
I am definitely a low-end price shopper, but also recognize the difference between price and value.

[spqrzilla]

Well, I don't think I'd call my opinion of Lee die sets as "neutral". I think for a lot of purposes they work well enough and are good value. So for a caliber you are just foolin around with, or infrequently load, they'll be fine.

Not every reloading problem requires benchrest quality.

[dwalker460]

I have loaded literally thousands of rounds of 9mm/45ACP/ and 38/.357 with Lee dies and never had a single issue. My generic experiences are:
LEE- work and are awesome value, will load ammunition as accurate as anything else out there
Hornady- not much better than Lee, and my buddy wore out a set of their rifle dies, and IMHO are just more expensive than LEE with no better quality
REDDING- Near custom dies sets, very good tolerances
RCBS- Great dies, not much more expensive than LEE in most cases.
Forsner Benchrest quality dies for the most part, near custom die quality, price reflects it
Dillon- Only ever used one set, worked OK, no real opinion either way.
Lyman- Just more expensive LEE dies.

Die setup IMHO is more critical than anything else. I just had an issue with my LEE 300BLK dies, which could have easily been blamed on the dies but in actuality it was just my technique that needed adjustment.

For the "casual" reloader who is not reloading 1000rnds a month, LEE/RCBS is the way to go.