Musical Justification

[BigBear]

Just got out of a meeting having to justify a stipend and why to keep music going in our public schools (basically, my job)... talk about heartbreaking.

There is always statistics thrown out about the need for music education, how it positively impacts/supports other academics and test scores, etc. I'm not going to do any of that.

All I want to ask this forum, is to take a few minutes today and think about life without music...Just think.

"Music is the shorthand of emotion"
"Music is said to be the speech of angels"
etc.

Just google some music quotes, some deep penetrating stuff... if you let it.

How much more alive would you be if you understood the language.

How much music is in your life? Do you realize?

[Zundfolge]

pfft ... kids these days don't even listen to music.


Seriously though, I'd rather see schools do away with athletics than music since music at least has academic merit. But this is the kind of crap you get with an education system run by government bureaucrats with money stolen from the people.

[CrufflerSteve]

Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid.
Frank Zappa

Music is always a commentary on society.
Frank Zappa

Music is a major part of my life. For one thing it has saved me from talk radio. I've been to about 4 concerts in the last month and will be at the Toad Tavern Friday. My love of music has made me rather obsessive about hearing protection.

[sellersm]

Sorry to hear you have to justify something like this! Life without music is like life without God!

Hmmm, let's see: in the book of Revelations, when Babylon is destroyed, it specifically says (chapter 18, vs. 22):
The music of harpists and musicians, pipers and trumpeters,
will never be heard in you again.
No worker of any trade
will ever be found in you again.
The sound of a millstone
will never be heard in you again.

So, life without music? Yeah, pretty much sums up some serious judgement!! The Bible is full of references to music, even some commands (Eph 5:19).

In other views, http://gen321.com/music/161-the-importance-of-music-in-our-lives an article by Kurt Stricker says:
Carlos Santana once said; "music can change your molecular structure". The "Mozart Effect" is a set of research results that indicate that listening to Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's music can, in a nutshell, make you smarter. It is, also, believed that early music training helps develop brain areas involved in language and reasoning.
Music is one of the most beloved human experiences. Everyone enjoys some sort of music and that is evident in almost every important event from weddings and funerals to graduation ceremonies and presidential inaugurations. The ambiance can be set in any room by simply adding soft music in a restaurant or upbeat sounds at a worship service. Several famous athletes have been known to listen to music as part of their pre-game/match ritual. And let's not forget those unforgettable soundtracks to our favorite films. Yes, music is everywhere. And finally, music is used as inspiration, reminiscing, and celebrating. Colleges have their fight song, people remember an endearing moment from their past during the playing of an old tune, and we sing Auld Lang Syne at the stroke of 12:00 on January 1st while kissing total strangers and swilling the best champagne. Star Wars wouldn't be the same without hearing "Daa, Daa, dat dat dat Daaaa, Daa, dat dat dat Daaaa, Daa", who would remember Woodstock without the Jefferson Airplane song "White Rabbit", and aging another year just cries for that timeless wonder, "Happy Birthday". Take away The Righteous Brothers song "You've Lost That Lovin' feelin'" and Top Gun loses its memorable ending, without country music men can't cry in their beer, and what would a 1970's funeral be without the song "Free Bird" by Lynard Skynard? Without music life would be very boring and colorless. We do everything to the tune of _______ you fill in the blank. Each adventure requires an anthem, every moment needs a melody, and all of life's little pains deserve a psalm. Maybe Carlos was right. If music changes our molecular structure what would we be without it?

[TS12000]

I'd listen everyday all day if I could swing it. Classical also cured my road rage (really) and gave me a new to me genre to listen to that I absolutely love. Sorry to hear you're at ends with them, from what I've heard they need more people like you, both music teachers and good teachers in general, in those schools and not less.

[asmo]

My guitar wants to kill your momma.
-- frank zappa

[StagLefty]

Man if it wasn't for jazz radio in the background all day at my house I'd be crazier than I already am.

[Ronin13]

I agree with Zund, musical education has more merit than athletics... Perfect example: I have two friends from high school, one played football, the other was in the band. The one who played football never really played another day of his life after senior year. The one who was in the band has now been in 3 different bands, has opened for several somewhat big name acts here in Colorado, and is currently doing what he loves and making a bit of money at it. By this example, granted I can't really say what the incomes of these two different individuals are, but I can tell you this: the one doing music is much happier every time I see them, and finds more fulfillment with life. Music is life. I could live without a lot of things, but music is certainly not one of them.
Oh yeah, you asked for quotes...
“If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music. I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.”
― Albert Einstein (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/9810.Albert_Einstein)
“Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination
and life to everything.”
― Plato (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/879.Plato)
[Beer][DJ][Rock]

[Shootersfab]

Man I tell you what, I donno if I wear ear plugs at the shop because of the hammering, or because we always have the music maxed out! Music gets you fired up, picks you up, fixes your heart, breaks your heart, calms you down, and makes you look forward to the next song....

I can't operate without music..

[sellersm]

Also, music is mathematics applied! +1000 to all that's been already stated, especially about needing more teachers like you and what Zund said!!

Bear, you know that I'm a musician as well. Life without music? Why bother living... [Dunno] Sounds like the school has an agenda already (as most do). [Bang]

You know Who's in charge...

[Great-Kazoo]

My guitar wants to kill your momma.
-- frank zappa

Call me Any vegetable.

I'm Jimmy Carl Black, The Indian of the group

Some people prefer cupcakes........

Very few people are aware how many different musicians have been in Zappa's ban over the years.

[sellersm]

Just don't eat that yellow snow.

[SAnd]

I'm going to go contrary to the original post request.

I will state that music has helped me through the rough times in my life. It has also made the good times all that much better. I could spend many inadequate words trying to describe how and why my life has helped and enhanced my life as the original poster requested. But...

I do not see music as an essential to a basic public school curriculum. Schools should be about facts and basic skills needed to function in our society. If there is enough extra money to fund beyond the essentials then music could be offered as an extra course. The public school system is graduating students that read poorly, can't do manage their own finances, and don't understand the way our country works. I am a strongly opposed to government run schools. I can support taxpayer funding of education though. Parents should be given a voucher to let them pick a school they want. The school they pick can have music as a part of the education or not, their choice.

My apologies to BigBear but I would prefer my tax money not to be directly spent on music.

I do realize how much music is in my life. They tried to ruin it by teaching me to "understand the language".

I believe that some of the best poetry can be found in the lyrics of songs.

I read this about 45 years ago when I was in high school. I copied it out of a Readers Digest.
One time a young man whose musical sense was limited to three years of intensive study at the Boston Conservatory, complained to the band master about the singing of the best stone mason in town. "He sings off key, the wrong notes and everything" the young man protested, "and that horrible voice, he bellows and hits notes no one else does--it's awful!"
"Watch him closely and reverently," the bandmaster told the student. "Don't pay to much attention to the sounds, for if you do you may miss the music. You don't get the wild ride to heaven on pretty sounds alone". composer Charles Ives telling about his father.

That's what music is to me, a "Wild Ride to Heaven"

[02ducky]

Thats crap, didn't the Taliban ban music?

What a shame.... Sorry Bigbear, I am at a loss for words with this one.

[Guylee]

Music is a huge part of my life. And music scholarships are just as prevalent as athletic ones. Just saying...if your kid sucks at sports at least he still has a chance with the electric triangle.

[Irving]

You need to come up with a way to pump people up about music so it generates money. Suggest an elective that teaches kids how to produce and market music, then it can be applied to academics in just one more way (business compared to math).

I just remembered you are in an elemantary environment. Dang.

[BigBear]

Neg, 6-12 grades, instrumental/vocal. I had several cool ideas (I thought) such as sound engineering or creating an "electronic band" (Since we just dumped x millions into macbooks and ipads) and etc.

SAnd, I understand your point brother, no offense taken. I just hope you feel the same way about athletics as well because if you use the "athletics teach team work, discipline, etc" argument, all I can say is "so does music, check out how competitive marching and DCI is." A music program is MUCH cheaper to help fund than most atheltic programs.

Also Irv, I've been thinking. I will try to get an afterschool rock band or something going next semester to hopefully garner more attention... We shall see what transpires.

[DSB OUTDOORS]

I love all kinds of music BB. Still waiting on your trumpet solo. [Coffee] You can PM me or send me a text. Still have my number right??? [Beer]

[BigBear]

Darnit, been so busy I forgot all about that. Send me a PM with your number and I'll send a vid tomorrow morning during my plan period.

[DSB OUTDOORS]

Darnit, been so busy I forgot all about that. Send me a PM with your number and I'll send a vid tomorrow morning during my plan period.
Thanks Brother!! P.M. in bound!

[SAnd]

Neg, 6-12 grades, instrumental/vocal. I had several cool ideas (I thought) such as sound engineering or creating an "electronic band" (Since we just dumped x millions into macbooks and ipads) and etc.

SAnd, I understand your point brother, no offense taken. I just hope you feel the same way about athletics as well because if you use the "athletics teach team work, discipline, etc" argument, all I can say is "so does music, check out how competitive marching and DCI is." A music program is MUCH cheaper to help fund than most atheltic programs.

Also Irv, I've been thinking. I will try to get an afterschool rock band or something going next semester to hopefully garner more attention... We shall see what transpires.

I feel the same about any program that isn't part of tha basic stuff that will make a productive member of society.

I think the direction you are going is a good one. You will be doing a great thing if you can use music to motivate someone to stay in school or to stick with a subject than they perceive as useless.

[Irving]

I feel the same about any program that isn't part of tha basic stuff that will make a productive member of society.



If the only education people got was what they teach in public high schools, there would be a lot less members of society that we would consider "productive."


Bear, even enough public attention could save your program. Sports bring in money, but they also bring in attention. Everyone knows who the athletes are, and there is a "face" to the program. You may consider some way to gain wide spread attention through blunt force or something. For instance, if you could some how create some sort of tradition involving the band, the school would be more likely to keep them around. I know the band already plays at sporting events, but I can't think of a better way than to attach the band to sports in some way that enhances the sporting events so people start to see music and sports as package deal, like cheerleading.

[Fmedges]

Do they still have shop classes in school?

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I'm going to go contrary to the original post request.

I will state that music has helped me through the rough times in my life. It has also made the good times all that much better. I could spend many inadequate words trying to describe how and why my life has helped and enhanced my life as the original poster requested. But...

I do not see music as an essential to a basic public school curriculum. Schools should be about facts and basic skills needed to function in our society. If there is enough extra money to fund beyond the essentials then music could be offered as an extra course. The public school system is graduating students that read poorly, can't do manage their own finances, and don't understand the way our country works. I am a strongly opposed to government run schools. I can support taxpayer funding of education though. Parents should be given a voucher to let them pick a school they want. The school they pick can have music as a part of the education or not, their choice.

My apologies to BigBear but I would prefer my tax money not to be directly spent on music.

I do realize how much music is in my life. They tried to ruin it by teaching me to "understand the language".

I believe that some of the best poetry can be found in the lyrics of songs.

I read this about 45 years ago when I was in high school. I copied it out of a Readers Digest.
One time a young man whose musical sense was limited to three years of intensive study at the Boston Conservatory, complained to the band master about the singing of the best stone mason in town. "He sings off key, the wrong notes and everything" the young man protested, "and that horrible voice, he bellows and hits notes no one else does--it's awful!"
"Watch him closely and reverently," the bandmaster told the student. "Don't pay to much attention to the sounds, for if you do you may miss the music. You don't get the wild ride to heaven on pretty sounds alone". composer Charles Ives telling about his father.

That's what music is to me, a "Wild Ride to Heaven"

It's also been proven that poor reading skills often leads to poor spelling and English skills in general... I take it you're a product of public school? [Coffee]






I joke, I kid, I poke... I mean nothing seriously.

[jmg8550]

Do they still have shop classes in school?

Only in some districts. Windsor still does. They still have music too. A very, very well funded music program.

[BigBear]

....Sports bring in money, but they also bring in attention. .... I often see that statement. Sports actually cost a district quite a bit. Most programs would be under water if it wasn't for fed money, booster programs, donations, etc. ESPECIALLY the small/rural areas that do not have a sports "name". However, I still understand your point. You are correct. They do bring in a lot of attention.


Do they still have shop classes in school? They have a shop class at my school, it's geared more toward trades though. They do a quarter each of carpentry, metalworking, electrician, and automotive.


...A very, very well funded music program. I had to read that twice. HAHA. Must be nice, I'm working in the wrong district. lol.

[newracer]

I strongly in favor of all extra curricular activities in schools whether it be art, music, drama, athletics, etc. A kid being involved in these activities creates well rounded individuals that can eventually become great assets to society. I think the gradual removal of these programs from schools is one of the problems, not the solution. All these activities teach kids way more than the main topic, they require team work, dedication, social interaction, etc.

I think one of the main problems with schools similar to the problems with our government, too much administration and bureaucracy.

[Zundfolge]

I would argue that schools (public or private) should focus on the following things IN THE FOLLOWING ORDER:



The "Three R's".
History (in particular Constitutional studies).
The Hard Sciences (chemistry, physics, etc).
The Soft Sciences (psychology, sociology, economics, etc).
The arts (music, literature, visual arts, etc).
"Life Skills" (cooking, maintaining cars, balancing checkbook, changing diapers, etc).
Physical fitness.
Organized athletics.


If you're going to start cutting programs because you don't have the funds to teach all of them, you start at the bottom and work your way up, but not before you cut administrative overhead and facilities maintenance/management.

[rondog]

How many musicians have you ever seen with blown-out knees, concussions, and bodies that just don't work right anymore, vs. athletes? Sure, some athletes become mega-millionaires, most just become worn-out and broke. Same with musicians. But who do you think has more FUN in their lifetime? Who do you think contributes more to society over their lifetime? I know I wish I'd learned guitar when I was a kid, I'm 56 and STILL wanting to learn it. I have two, but can't play a lick.

Two things we humans take for granted but would be lost without, are music and photography. Think about it, you're always hearing a musical tune of some kind from somewhere, and damn near everywhere you look, you see an image of some kind that someone made with a camera of some kind.

Oh, and FZ says Thanks for all his quotes!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/Frank%20Zappa/PICT0044.jpg

[BigBear]

Rondog, even better: did you know that there a ton of "professional athletes" that attribute some of their success to music education and are decent musicians themselves? It's true. I can find the numbers if needed.

This wasn't meant to turn into a bashing such and such group because this other such and such group is better thread.

I was just venting. Had another meeting this morning... talk about knuckle draggin'.... whew. I will survive.

Peace.

[rondog]

BigBear, you ever heard of the Tri-State Music Festival? I grew up in Enid, OK, home of that festival. It's an annual gathering of High School marching bands, performing in a big parade. Been many years since I saw one, but they still have it. There's also all kinds of other musical competitions besides the parade, and a carnival, always a big deal to our little town on the plains. http://tristatemusicfestival.com/Tri-State_Music_Festival/Welcome.html

[BigBear]

Rondog, I have. I would love to enter those type things with my kids eventually... but in the meantime, I need to grow this program and actually teach 'em, haha.

[DSB OUTDOORS]

Thanks BB for the text solo! You are the man!! [Beer]

[BigBear]

Yes Sir, any time.... sorry it took so long, busy.

[DSB OUTDOORS]

No need to apologize what so ever!!!!!!! Thanks. If you find the time, I LOVE TAPS. Makes me cry every time. [Beer]

[BigBear]

Inbound.