Voice Your Support to Correct the Root Cause of All Mass Shootings

[Coltdriver]

The root cause of all of these mass shootings in the United States is in the mental illness of the shooters.

The United States has done a pathetic job of addressing this issue.

This is a rational approach to the problem and if we were to re establish a mental health facility network the problem can be addressed. We need to go further an create a registry that gun and ammo sales are checked against but this will get the ball rolling.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/reestablish-nationwide-network-mental-health-facilities-and-make-treatment-compulsory-severe-cases/2pjkv0xh#thank-you=p

We should vigorously address the threat to our gun rights by changing the argument.

[Sharpienads]

Although I think your intentions are probably good, I'll pass on this one. With healthcare becoming socialized, I can see this as a backdoor to throwing political dissidents into the looney bin. No thanks, the less federal and state involvement there is the better my mental health is.

[Kraven251]

Although I think your intentions are probably good, I'll pass on this one. With healthcare becoming socialized, I can see this as a backdoor to throwing political dissidents into the looney bin. No thanks, the less federal and state involvement there is the better my mental health is.

Thought we had something similar already: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year _2012

[blacklabel]

Yeah, I'm going to pass on it as well. The government already uses mental health to prevent law abiding, sane citizens from owning firearms.

[Frank Howell]

I firmly believe that the mental health issue in this nation would be laughable if not for situations like this. My wife is a mental health counselor in the corrections field. The primary problem is that the vast majority of people with serious and dangerous mental illness, do not get the diagnosis of their problem until AFTER they have committed a crime against others. Another big problem is that the mental health community seems frozen when it comes to the conflict between their bond of confidenciality, and their duty to warn. IMHO, the Duty to Warn when they have a patient who shows signs that they may offend against others violently, MUST take presidence.

The third problem here is that even when these mentally ill violent offenders are incarcerated, in most correctional facilities, the mental health programs are focused only on containment. That is to say that they focus only on keeping the inmates calm, not on treating their mental illness. Worse yet is that many of these violent offenders with mental illness will some day be released back onto the streets with little to no mandated follow up care.

I've signed and will be happy to pass this on to others.

[Bailey Guns]

You'd have to be out of your fucking mind to want something like this implemented by the government. Personally, I think the people that would agree to this (and to the subsequent potential for vast governmental abuse) should be the first ones put on "The List".

I'm probably on enough lists already...I'll pass.

[Irving]

This topic is the most slippery of the slippery slopes.

[DHC]

The root cause of all of these mass shootings in the United States is in the mental illness of the shooters.

The United States has done a pathetic job of addressing this issue.

This is a rational approach to the problem and if we were to re establish a mental health facility network the problem can be addressed. We need to go further an create a registry that gun and ammo sales are checked against but this will get the ball rolling.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/reestablish-nationwide-network-mental-health-facilities-and-make-treatment-compulsory-severe-cases/2pjkv0xh#thank-you=p

We should vigorously address the threat to our gun rights by changing the argument.

Yes, and no. I think you are taking a leap to describe mental illness as a root cause. I agree that it seems to be one of the characteristics that most often appears in these incidents, but it remains to be seen if it is a "root cause." Further, there is great debate over definition of what constitutes mental illness - even among those who are professionals in that industry - witness the recent revisions to DSM-IV standards.

At the risk of re-directing your thread, I would submit that the "root cause" might be better defined as an artifact of our country's culture of personal freedoms. With our emphasis on personal freedoms comes consequences. Among those negative consequences are gun violence by nutbags and drugs and druggies - AND - these are not new issues at all. Mass murders are not nearly so significant today as they were in the 1920's, for example.

A re-framing of the argument is a grand idea. We should re-frame it to be realistic and based on fundamentals of our Constitution and culture.

Offered FWIW.

[Sharpienads]

This topic is the most slippery of the slippery slopes.

Some sane citizens soundly suggest 'tis the slipperiest of slippery slopes. Indeed.

[Bailey Guns]

I think DHC's post is a far more accurate and realistic assessment than the OP.


A re-framing of the argument is a grand idea. We should re-frame it to be realistic and based on fundamentals of our Constitution and culture.

And I agree with that statement wholeheartedly.

[Coltdriver]

Well I appreciate the lets pass on this comments and the other I disagree comments.

I urge you to each join the reality of your country and understand its based on compromise.

So other than statements that can not be enacted, what are your best ideas?

We are about to be attacked for our gun rights, our 2nd amendment rights.

What is your suggestion to thwart the liberals who are going to take your 2nd amendment rights?

And I have to argue that mental instability is in fact the root cause of all of these shootings. Want to dispute that name your shooter. I will start with Jared Lee Loughner and James Holmes. Who do you want to cite to refute my point?

[Bailey Guns]

Maj Nidal Hassan. Timothy McVeigh. Julio Gonzalez.

Only one was a shooter. A person doesn't have to be mentally ill or use a gun to commit mass murder. You're looking for an answer where none exists.

[Irving]

Harris and Clebold.

[Kraven251]

Those that have served in a conflict, that have had to take life to save life...the argument arises that they are all unfit. As no sane person would do these things. There will be no discussion of duty, commitment, sacrifice, it will be a buffet of medical and psych jargon, and the determination of what is clinically "Mentally Stable." Realize we can fight the good fight, and make the valid points, and hope that logic and truth prevails on this, but it only takes someone very good at mincing words and we are all in for a very long fight for a very fundamental right allowed to us by the founding fathers.

[Bailey Guns]

Furthermore, an argument could be made that US government agents have committed at least one of the worst mass murders of all time under color of law. I find it completely hypocritical some of the ROEs that are placed on our soldiers in a war zone in an attempt to reduce collateral damage. And when a soldier screws up he's held accountable. Yet the ATF/FBI can kill several religious sect members in a compound while trying to capture one man and virtually nothing happens.

Sorry. This is not the outfit I want determining who is mentally fit/unfit to own a gun.

(edited to clarify)

[Bailey Guns]

You got me quoted before the edit, Irving. I didn't want to get rebuked by the mods for the above statement without some clarification.

[Irving]

You got me quoted before the edit, Irving. I didn't want to get rebuked by the mods for the above statement without some clarification.

What are you talking about?

[Bailey Guns]

Nevermind. Looks like it's already gone.

[Irving]

;)

[sellersm]

I believe Joseph Heller covered this in his book, "Catch 22", to which Kraven251 may be alluding.

The root cause is the sinful nature of man. Period. Take that out of the equation of a Nation, and you end up with these kinds of results. It's nothing new...

[Great-Kazoo]

Well I appreciate the lets pass on this comments and the other I disagree comments.

I urge you to each join the reality of your country and understand its based on compromise.

So other than statements that can not be enacted, what are your best ideas?

We are about to be attacked for our gun rights, our 2nd amendment rights.

What is your suggestion to thwart the liberals who are going to take your 2nd amendment rights?

And I have to argue that mental instability is in fact the root cause of all of these shootings. Want to dispute that name your shooter. I will start with Jared Lee Loughner and James Holmes. Who do you want to cite to refute my point?


We have been under attack for decades, now the anti's are seizing the moment for their gun grabbing agenda.
Spoken like a true Tolerant & Divers Liberal. The reality is 50% feel they should be supported by the other 50% of the country. Teaching children in schools,for many a decade that You cannot be hit by your parent, that's child abuse (which) is what morphed out of trying to recognize, domestic violence and child abuse in the home. DARE, theres another reality, that failed. Ironic the same education system who's intentions were good, had no problem steering parents towards Ritalin as a means to control their kids. INSTEAD OF, you guessed it, a slap on the ass or heaven forbid TIME OUT!.
Compromise on this Compromise on that. UNTIL the dems, Liberals and "sensible gun law" FUDDS are willing to accept EVIL exist, no matter how many feel good laws are passed. Acknowledge gun restrictions and bans for law abiding citizens DO NOT WORK TO CURTAIL CRIME. Then and only then will i be willing to COMPROMISE.
THAT MY FRIEND, IS REALITY.

[blacklabel]

I urge you to each join the reality of your country and understand its based on compromise.

And it's compromise that fucks us. Compromise has eroded our rights and our fiscal security in our recent history. More of it will not solve the problems we face.

[Great-Kazoo]

And it's compromise that fucks us. Compromise has eroded our rights and our fiscal security in our recent history. More of it will not solve the problems we face.

Interestingly enough I saw a crawler on the news about Dem calls for renewing the AWB. The Honorable Dick Durbn Ill? says we need to discuss this WITHOUT gun groups such as the NRA. Do you see or have a clue where your "compromise" will lead us?

[Jrk2262]

Hello all,

Please take the time to write the two CO senators and who ever your Congressman is. Make no mistake those who think guns are to blame are contacting them passionately. We need to do the same. It only takes 30 minutes to sent them all a note. It is worth your time. I just sent them all a message. Here are links to their websites.
http://www.bennet.senate.gov/contact/
http://www.markudall.senate.gov/?p=contact_us
http://forms.house.gov/coffman/webforms/issue_subscribe.htm

And if you don't know what to write then use what wrote. PM me and I can email you what I wrote. I cannot post it here....I tried and it will not let me paste a Word DOC.

Colorado gun owners need to take a stand together because make no mistake the other side is going to jump on this incident.

[Bailey Guns]

Well, Coltdriver? You've been given several names, including the US government, of mass murderers. What say you?

[mrghost]

Voiced my opinion to both Colorado Senators and my Congressman tonight that I expect them to *not* support any ban on currently available guns or accessories. Unfortunately, I think Washington is looking to just slam down some feel-good bans then wash their hands considering the issue "fixed". My concern is that the Feds will adopt California-style gun laws or worse. I moved away from California and both Dianne Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi; I don't want their insanity affecting my rights here in Colorado and/or at the federal level now too.

[geo351]

did the same here. also sent a letter to www.coloradosenatenews.com (http://www.coloradosenatenews.com) what the hell hope some one listens.

[jake]

I read an interesting perspective on the idea of compromise yesterday. We (most of us) want regulations to be less strict, antis want them to be more strict. So a compromise would be to keep things as they are. Agreeing to more regulations is not a compromise. The writer also gave a different example of a compromise (he also made it clear he didn't support it but was just using it as an example): we will agree to give up our AK-47s if you allow school employees to carry. If you find yourself in a conversation with someone who suggests we should just compromise a little it could be a handy way to make them consider what they're asking.

[Ronin13]

Anyone else notice something... off, about the wording of that petition? "It is also time to recognise that certain severe antisocial tendencies pose a grave danger to society"- I know in British spelling words like recognize and socialize they remove the z and add an s... so, perhaps this is a person from across the big blue thing that's trying to impart some of their ideals over here???? I don't like it, not a single bit!

[Bailey Guns]

Well, Coltdriver? You've been given several names, including the US government, of mass murderers. What say you?

Well...nothin' but the sound of the fuckin' crickets chirping. Bout what I thought.

[Coltdriver]

Read this and let me kinow what you think:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/12/20/must-rebuild-mental-health-system-in-america/

Its by Dr. Keith Ablow a psychiatrist and member of the Fox News Medical A-Team.


It is a great read, will give some insight to the state of mental health treatment in this country. It starts like this:

It is time to rebuild America's mental health care system, and to build it stronger than ever. As I have said before on this site, the current system is shattered, on its knees and a profound national embarrassment.

The article is here: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/12/20/must-rebuild-mental-health-system-in-america/#ixzz2FpUh7HEE

This is what I am talking about addressing.

[Bailey Guns]

The mental health system became really broken back in 1975 after a supreme court ruling found it unconstitutional to involuntarily commit those with mental illness.

Regardless of the state of the mental health system, law-abiding gun owners are NOT the problem and I'm tired of being the government's whipping boy every time some nut job hurts someone.

[Coltdriver]

The mental health system became really broken back in 1975 after a supreme court ruling found it unconstitutional to involuntarily commit those with mental illness.

Regardless of the state of the mental health system, law-abiding gun owners are NOT the problem and I'm tired of being the government's whipping boy every time some nut job hurts someone.

I could not agree more. If mentally disturbed people could be thwarted from mass shootings then law abiding gun owners do fall out of the limelight. Then the sensationalism goes to "another mentally ill person stopped" instead of the non sense we are confronted with from the brady bunch.