Moving to Colorado from Another State with a Utah CCW

[james_bond_007]

I found the poster's situation interesting and thought I would expand on it a bit.
Feel free to throw in some hypothetical "...but what if" 's .
Also, I can't get EVERYTHING right on the first draft, so please correct as necessary.

Let's follow the path of "Manny", "Moe". "Jack". and "Fred".

Manny was a resident of UTAH and obtained a UTAH Resident CCW, then moved to COLORADO.
Moe was a non-resident of UTAH but resided in ARIZONA, then moved to COLORADO.
Jack was a non-resident of UTAH but resided in ARIZONA when he got his permit. He moved to and was a resident of ILLINOIS, then moved to COLORADO.
Fred was a resident of UTAH and obtained a UTAH Resident CCW, but later moved to ILLINOIS, then moved to COLORADO.

Manny
As long as Manny met the requirements of his state of residence (UTAH), his UTAH permits is considered valid in UTAH and any state that recognizes the UTAH permit.
When he moved to Colorado, he changed his residency from UTAH to Colorado. At that time, he was required by Colorado to obtain State of Colorado ID [ex. Driver's license] within 90 days of starting his residence. During that 90 days, he was still "officially" considered a UTAH resident until he applied for a COLORADO DL (the DL people would have punched a hole in his UTAH DL, to allow him to have a picture ID, given him a temporary paper Colorado DL, and told him to expect his new DL soon). At the time of application (when the UTAH DL was punched) he was no longer a UTAH resident, and also gave up his UTAH resident CCW.
Until he applies for a COLORADO CCW, he lo longer has CCW privileges in COLORADO.

I have found no evidence that the UTAH course is acceptable for use to obtain a COLORADO CCW.
It appears that Manny will need to take a COLORADO CCW course.
Any firearms training taken in UTAH or anywhere else can be duely noted in Manny's file at the local Country Sherrif, but Colorado does not require live fire training to obtain a CCW.

[james_bond_007]

Moe

Moe was a non-resident of UTAH but resided in ARIZONA, then moved to COLORADO.

Moe obtained a non-resident UTAH permit, but was also required, by UTAH , to obtain an ARIZONA CCW permit.

FROM THE UTAH APPLICATION : http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/CFPapp0312.pdf

If you reside in a state that recognizes the validity of the Utah CFP or has reciprocity with Utah, you must obtain a CFP or CCW from your home state and submit a copy of it with your application for a Utah permit. For a list of reciprocal states visit: http://www.publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/FAQother.html Residency will be determined by your state-issued identification. If your state does not recognize the Utah permit this does not apply.

When Moe moved from ARIZONA to COLORADO, he was still a resident of ARIZONA for up to 90 days. Within that time, when he applied for a COLORADO DL, his UTAH non-resident CCW was still valid, but he relinquished his ARIZONA residency. So he no longer held a valid CCW from a UTAH reciprocal state.

Questions to Answer:
1) Does the UTAH permit require you to hold a CCW permit from a reciprocal state to MAINTAIN your UTAH permit or just at the time of application ?
2) If you move from one reciprocal state to another, are you required to inform UTAH of the change in address?
I think the answer is YES,
3) Do you need to show a current CCW for the new reciprocal state?
4) Even if UTAH recognizes his non-resident CCW, when he is now a COLORADO resident, would COLORADO recognize his non-resident permit ?

Moe goes and gets a COLORADO CCW by taking a Colorado CCW course.

Question to Answer:
4) Does his UTAH permit "validate" again at this time?
Was it "valid" all along ?
Does he have to reapply for a UTAH permit ?

[james_bond_007]

Jack

Jack was a non-resident of UTAH but resided in ARIZONA when he got his permit. He moved to and was a resident of ILLINOIS, then moved to COLORADO.

Like Moe, Jack obtained a non-resident UTAH permit, but was also required, by UTAH , to obtain an ARIZONA CCW permit.

When he moved to ILLINOIS, Illinois did not recognize his right to carry, as Illinois offers no CCW.

Question:
1) Was Jack's UTAH non-resident permit invalidated once he became an Illinois resident ?
Answer: (Updated: 9:30 16DEC12) No. He was just not allowed to carry in ILLINOIS.
2) If not, although Jack could not legally carry in Illinois, he should have been able to carry in othe UTAH reciprocal states. Correct? (Updated: 9:30 16DEC12)Yes. He could carry in all other states that recognized the UTAH non-resident CCW permit

Once Jack moved to COLORADO from ILLINOIS,
IF his UTAH permit was no longer valid, he will have to **
a) get a COLORADO CCW (Updated: 9:30 16DEC12) Yes, Colorado will no longer recognize the non-resident UTAH permit after 90-days of Colorado residency
b) reapply to UTAH if he also wants a UTAH permit (Updated: 9:30 16DEC12) NO. The permit will remain valid for all states, except COLORADO, that recognize the NR UTAH permit.

**(Updated: 9:30 16DEC12) Permit was valid, for 90-days in Colorado, and continues to be valid in all states that recognize a UTAH non-resident CCW permit.

IF his UTAH permit was still valid, he will have to
a) get a COLORADO CCW (Updated: 9:30 16DEC12) YES. (see **)
b) file a change of address with UTAH to maintain status (Updated: 9:30 16DEC12) He should file a change of address, but it is not clear if filing this is necessary to maintain the UTAH NR permit status.

[james_bond_007]

Fred

Fred was a resident of UTAH and obtained a UTAH Resident CCW, but later moved to ILLINOIS, then moved to COLORADO.

When Fred moved to COLORADO, he relinquished his UTAH resident permit when he applied for his COLORADO DL (within the first 90 days of residency).

Fred will have to apply for a COLORADO CCW
If he wants to also have a UTAH permit, he will have to apply for a non-resident UTAH permit.

Since he held a valid non-resident permit, he has completed all of the UTAH requirements (classes, proof of firearms training etc.).
Although he will have to pay again for a new non-resident permit, he will not have to retake or reprove any of the UTAH requirements (providing their terms have not expired..EX: He was near the end of his 5-year limit on his firearms course, and waits too long to apply and exceeds the 5 year limit before trying to "use" that course for his application.

[TFOGGER]

I found the poster's situation interesting and thought I would expand on it a bit.
Feel free to throw in some hypothetical "...but what if" 's .
Also, I can't get EVERYTHING right on the first draft, so please correct as necessary.

Let's follow the path of "Manny", "Moe". "Jack". and "Fred".

Manny was a resident of UTAH and obtained a UTAH Resident CCW, then moved to COLORADO.
Moe was a non-resident of UTAH but resided in ARIZONA, then moved to COLORADO.
Jack was a non-resident of UTAH but resided in ARIZONA when he got his permit. He moved to and was a resident of ILLINOIS, then moved to COLORADO.
Fred was a resident of UTAH and obtained a UTAH Resident CCW, but later moved to ILLINOIS, then moved to COLORADO.

Manny
As long as Manny met the requirements of his state of residence (UTAH), his UTAH permits is considered valid in UTAH and any state that recognizes the UTAH permit.
When he moved to Colorado, he changed his residency from UTAH to Colorado. At that time, he was required by Colorado to obtain State of Colorado ID [ex. Driver's license] within 90 days of starting his residence. During that 90 days, he was still "officially" considered a UTAH resident until he applied for a COLORADO DL (the DL people would have punched a hole in his UTAH DL, to allow him to have a picture ID, given him a temporary paper Colorado DL, and told him to expect his new DL soon). At the time of application (when the UTAH DL was punched) he was no longer a UTAH resident, and also gave up his UTAH resident CCW.
Until he applies for a COLORADO CCW, he lo longer has CCW privileges in COLORADO.

I have found no evidence that the UTAH course is acceptable for use to obtain a COLORADO CCW.
It appears that Manny will need to take a COLORADO CCW course.
Any firearms training taken in UTAH or anywhere else can be duely noted in Manny's file at the local Country Sherrif, but Colorado does not require live fire training to obtain a CCW.

Depending on the county, Manny's Utah training course would most likely be accepted, since it was taught by a Utah certified instructor, and their training certification standards are more stringent than Colorado's. this assumes that Manny's trraining credential is less than 5 years old.




Handgun Training Certificate - (a copy of your original certificate is required at time of application) - Please note: On-line, home study, and Hunter Safety courses will not be accepted. Certificates must contain the applicant's name, course name, date of course and the instructor’s original signature.

Per C.R.S. 18-12-203, applicants must demonstrate competence with a handgun by submitting one of the following:


Evidence of experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competitions or current military;
Evidence that, at the time the application is submitted, the applicant is a certified instructor;
Proof of honorable discharge from a branch of the United States Armed Forces (DD214) within three years preceding submittal of this application;
Proof of honorable discharge from a branch of the United States Armed Forces (DD214) that reflects pistol qualifications obtained within ten years preceding submittal of this application;
A certificate showing retirement from a Colorado Law Enforcement Agency that reflects pistol qualifications obtained within ten years preceding submittal of this application;
A training certificate from a handgun training class obtained within ten years preceding submittal of this application. Certificate must have original signature of certified instructor who taught the class.

A “handgun training class” means: a law enforcement training firearms safety course; a firearms safety course offered by a law enforcement agency, an institution of higher education, or a public or private institution or organization or firearms training school, that is open to the general public and is taught by a certified instructor; or a firearms safety course or class that is offered and taught by a certified instructor.

A “certified instructor” is an instructor for a firearms safety course who is certified as a firearms instructor by a county, municipal, state, or federal law enforcement agency; the Colorado POST board; a federal military agency; or a national nonprofit organization that certifies firearms instructors, operates national firearms competitions, and provides training, including courses in personal protection, in small arms safety, use, and marksmanship.

[james_bond_007]

Depending on the county, Manny's Utah training course would most likely be accepted, since it was taught by a Utah certified instructor, and their training certification standards are more stringent than Colorado's. this assumes that Manny's trraining credential is less than 5 years old.

I agree that it would be county dependent.
So to say the it is 100% acceptable is misleading; likewise, to say it is NOT acceptable is also misleading.
We are in one of those "gray" areas . Don't you think ?

Adams CO has a list of "Acceptable Instructors. While the UTAH certification may be more stringent, if they are not on the "list" it may be EASIER to just take a course then to "fight City Hall" and try and get your course accepted.

Then there are other counties that are not as strict ...

[james_bond_007]

For Manny, Moe, Jack and Fred

Colorado will no longer recognize their non-Colorado CCW shortly after they become COLORADO residents.


18-12-213. Reciprocity



(1) A permit to carry a concealed handgun or a concealed weapon that is issued by a state that recognizes the validity of permits issued pursuant to this part 2 shall be valid in this state in all respects as a permit issued pursuant to this part 2 if the permit is issued to a person who is:

(a) Twenty-one years of age or older; and

(b) (I) A resident of the state that issued the permit, as demonstrated by the address stated on a valid picture identification that is issued by the state that issued the permit and is carried by the permit holder; or

(II) A resident of Colorado for no more than ninety days, as determined by the date of issuance on a valid picture identification issued by Colorado and carried by the permit holder.


This means the UTAH resident permits are certainly no longer valid 90 days after the "date" of residency in COLORADO, per the COLORADO statute.
Likewise, they are no longer UTAH residents, and their permit is invalid.

QUESTION:
What about a non-resident UTAH permit ? Is it still valid in all reciprocal states EXCEPT COLORADO once a permit holder becomes a COLORADO resident ?

[spqrzilla]

Manny was a resident of UTAH and obtained a UTAH Resident CCW, then moved to COLORADO.
....

Manny
.... At the time of application (when the UTAH DL was punched) he was no longer a UTAH resident, and also gave up his UTAH resident CCW.
Until he applies for a COLORADO CCW, he lo longer has CCW privileges in COLORADO. ...
I don't think this is correct. Why did he "give up" his Utah permit? His Utah permit was good for 90 days in Colorado after his Colorado ID is issued.

[spqrzilla]

This means the UTAH resident permits are certainly no longer valid 90 days after the "date" of residency in COLORADO, per the COLORADO statute.
Likewise, they are no longer UTAH residents, and their permit is invalid.

You are reading the statute wrong, there is an "or" between (b)(I) and (b)(II).

Many of your other examples similarly misread the statute.

[james_bond_007]

You are reading the statute wrong, there is an "or" between (b)(I) and (b)(II).

Many of your other examples similarly misread the statute.

Thank you.
Let me see if I can fix them. As I initially stated, I posed this as a FIRST DRAFT.

[james_bond_007]

I don't think this is correct. Why did he "give up" his Utah permit? His Utah permit was good for 90 days in Colorado after his Colorado ID is issued.

First let me say that I'm not attempting to speak authoritatively on this subject, I'm just more or less trying to "lead" the exercise. I am looking to all the Forum members to help sort this out. I just thought it might make an interesting exercise...I hope everyone else does as well.[Coffee]

So from the Colorado perspective, residency starts on the date the COLORADO DL is issued.
COLORADO provides for a 90-day "grace" (let me use this term loosely) period from said date for the UTAH resident CCW to remain valid and allow CCW in Colorado.
The time frame is such that he could immediately (as of the DL issue date) apply for a COLORADO CCW, and in theory, receive it on/ before the 90-day "grace" period expires. After the 90-day "grace" period, in order to carry legally in COLORADO he will require a valid Colorado permit. So by moving to COLORADO and declaring residency, he "gave up" his UTAH residency status and thus his UTAH resident permit, albeit 90-days after the DL date.

From UTAH's perspective, when is the permit considered invalid ? it would depend on if UTAH has a "grace period" and when they consider the permit invalid.

We need to look at when UTAH recognizes the End of residency (Anyone know the answer ? ) as well as when COLORADO recognizes the Start of residency (A: date of DL or State ID).

One of the requirements for apply for a UTAH resident permit is to be a resident of UTAH.
If Manny goes back to UTAH to visit on the day he applied for a COLORADO DL with a "hole" punched in his UTAH DL and a COLORADO temp DL, clearly indicating his UTAH DL is invalid, does UTAH still consider his CCW resident permit valid ? Or did he "give up" his resident permit, in the eyes of UTAH, when he became a COLORADO resident ?

The answer, I think, depends on when UTAH no longer recognizes him as a resident.
(Anyone know the answer ? )

[james_bond_007]

You are reading the statute wrong, there is an "or" between (b)(I) and (b)(II).

Many of your other examples similarly misread the statute.

So as I read the statute:

[I believe this is FALSE] (b)(I) : (I) A resident of the state that issued the permit, as demonstrated by the address stated on a valid picture identification that is issued by the state that issued the permit and is carried by the permit holder;

SUPPORTING ARGUMENT:
As far as COLORADO is concerned, at the point at which the UTAH DL is invalidated ("hole punched") and a COLORADO DL issued (COLORADO residency instated), Manny is no longer a valid resident of UTAH, at least in COLORADO's eyes, and thus makes part (b)(I) = FALSE or NOT TRUE

OR

[I believe this is TRUE](II) A resident of Colorado for no more than ninety days, as determined by the date of issuance on a valid picture identification issued by Colorado and carried by the permit holder.

SUPPORTING ARGUMENT:
Manny now has a valid picture ID issued by COLORADO *, he has not yet resided in COLORADO for 90-days, based on the date of issuance, and is carried by him, the permit holder, and thus makes this part (b)(II) = TRUE

*One could argue that until the COLORADO "picture ID" arrives in 7-10 days, part (b)(I) may hold true, as the temp COLORADO "paper" license does not have a picture on it; one could argue that the UTAH DL is the "valid picture identification that is issued by the state that issued the permit" to which the statute refers, different and distinct from the "permit" and that it became "invalid", when COLORADO "punched" it.


Does this sound reasonable ?

[james_bond_007]

...Many of your other examples similarly misread the statute.

Please point out your concerns. I'm very interested in the correct answers. Please help supply the correct answers.

Again, this is just an exercise...I don't claim to be an authority...I'm just trying to have some fun with an example and learn a few things from more knowledgeable members, like yourself.

[StreetDoctor]

Thanks for the post, all very confusing. I'll be calling the county sheriff tuesday today to see what they say. I'll report back.

[spqrzilla]

james_bond, you just need to read the statute instead of inventing requirements and actions that don't appear in the statute.

[james_bond_007]

Thanks you to the 2 guys that emailed me and pointed out some info about the UTAH permit.

What they indicated was that
1) There is only ONE type of UTAH permit (not TWO: there is no distinct Non-resident and Resident permit)
I.E. Only one card is issued that reads
"UTAH"
"Department of Public Safety"
"Concealed Firearm Permit"
Name
Address
etc.
2) Only the application process and fees differ between a UTAH resident and non-resident permit, and the states that recognize Resident/Non-Resident reciprocity
3) If the address on the permit is a UTAH address, it is considered Resident status, and all others are considered Non-Resident status

Can anyone confirm this?

(Once confirmed, I'll update the above "Exercise")

[StreetDoctor]

Correct


Thanks you to the 2 guys that emailed me and pointed out some info about the UTAH permit.

What they indicated was that
1) There is only ONE type of UTAH permit (not TWO: there is no distinct Non-resident and Resident permit)
I.E. Only one card is issued that reads
"UTAH"
"Department of Public Safety"
"Concealed Firearm Permit"
Name
Address
etc.
2) Only the application process and fees differ between a UTAH resident and non-resident permit, and the states that recognize Resident/Non-Resident reciprocity
3) If the address on the permit is a UTAH address, it is considered Resident status, and all others are considered Non-Resident status

Can anyone confirm this?

(Once confirmed, I'll update the above "Exercise")

[J]

Colorado doesn't honor any permits that are issued by a state that is not the residence of that person. So many of your above example are wrong.

A Utah CCW is only valid for a Utah resident in Colorado.

In most cases, I would bet that if the original certificate is kept, and was issued in the last 10 years (training is good for 10 years in CO, not the 5 years previously mentioned) that their Utah training would likely qualify them for a CCW in Colorado. Most instructors, from my observations, are certified by one of the means in 18-12-202(2). Additionally, I would imagine that the Utah Dept of Public safety is considered a State law enforcement agency, as they run the UT state patrol and the like. This would seem to automatically fulfill 18-12-202(2)(a) as a "firearms instructor certified by A county, municipal, state, or federal law enforcement agency". CRS does not stipulate that the instructor must be certified by a CO state agency, just A state agency. I have no direct experience with this though.

Additionally, any counties that list "approved instructors" is not an all inclusive list. The requirements for valid training are set forth by the state in CRS 18-12-20x.

Colorado is very relaxed on the requirements for a valid training for a CCW, which is a topic of debate.

Per 18-12-202:

(2) "Certified instructor" means an instructor for a firearms safety course who is certified as a firearms instructor by:
(a) A county, municipal, state, or federal law enforcement agency;
(b) The peace officers standards and training board created in section 24-31-302, C.R.S.;
(c) A federal military agency; or
(d) A national nonprofit organization that certifies firearms instructors, operates national firearms competitions, and provides training, including courses in personal protection, in small arms safety, use, and marksmanship.

AND

(5) "Handgun training class" means:
(a) A law enforcement training firearms safety course;
(b) A firearms safety course offered by a law enforcement agency, an institution of higher education, or a public or private institution or organization or firearms training school, that is open to the general public and is taught by a certified instructor; or
(c) A firearms safety course or class that is offered and taught by a certified instructor.


And bringing it all together: 18-12-203(1)(h)(VI)
(VI) A training certificate from a handgun training class obtained within the ten years preceding submittal of the application. The applicant shall submit the original training certificate or a photocopy thereof that includes the original signature of the class instructor. In obtaining a training certificate from a handgun training class, the applicant shall have discretion in selecting which handgun training class to complete.

[StreetDoctor]

Spoke to Adams County Sheriff. All I have to do is bring in my training certificate with a photo ID and I'm good to go. $152

[james_bond_007]

Great news.

TFogger was right on target with his earlier comments in post #5.

And it seems that in the end, the UTAH permit will still be valid in all non-resident reciprocal states except Colorado, and your new COLORADO CCW will cover Colorado.
What we've (i.e. I've) also learned is that your UTAH CCW is valid until 90-days from the date on your Colorado DL.
As it typically takes about 90-days for ACSO to process your Colorado CCW app., be mindful of carrying after the DL+90 date and before you get your Colorado CCW.

Also , see this post for hours of operation for CCW applications at the Adams County Sheriff' Office http://www.ar-15.co/threads/75855-Adams-County-Changes-in-CCW-Process?highlight=adams+county

[spqrzilla]

Colorado doesn't honor any permits that are issued by a state that is not the residence of that person. So many of your above example are wrong.

A Utah CCW is only valid for a Utah resident in Colorado.
That's not how the statute is worded. The text has been copied into this thread above.

[james_bond_007]

Colorado doesn't honor any permits that are issued by a state that is not the residence of that person. So many of your above example are wrong.
A Utah CCW is only valid for a Utah resident in Colorado.

Thanks Jayock !!!

You are referring to this :
18-12-213. Reciprocity
(1) A permit to carry a concealed handgun or a concealed weapon that is issued by a state that recognizes the validity of permits issued pursuant to this part 2 shall be valid in this state in all respects as a permit issued pursuant to this part 2 if the permit is issued to a person who is::
(b) (I) A resident of the state that issued the permit, as demonstrated by the address stated on a valid picture identification that is issued by the state that issued the permit and is carried by the permit holder

So my update and hopefully CLOSER to being accurate (Please send in your cards and letters [LOL]) for :

Manny was a resident of UTAH and obtained a UTAH CCW, then moved to COLORADO.


As a UTAH resident, his UTAH CCW was recognized by Colorado and he could legally carry in Colorado
When he moved to Colorado, his Colorado residency begins on the date of his DL*
He has a 90-day grace period after residency in which he can continue to carry in Colorado with his UTAH CCW
If he wished to continue to carry in Colorado beyond the 90-day grace period he needs to apply for a Colorado CCW
His training certificate, if not more than 10 years old, will most likely be accepted by the Colorado Sheriff when he applies for a Colorado CCW.
After 90-days, if he has not yet received a Colorado CCW** he is not permitted to legally carry in Colorado until he receives his Colorado CCW permit


Moe was a non-resident of UTAH but resided in ARIZONA, then moved to COLORADO.


As a non-UTAH resident, his UTAH CCW was NEVER recognized by Colorado and he could not legally carry in Colorado
When he moved to Colorado, his UTAH CCW was not honored in Colorado, as he was not a resident of UTAH
He needs to apply for a Colorado CCW if he wishes to carry in Colorado
His training certificate, however, if not more than 10 years old, will most likely be accepted by the Colorado Sheriff when he applies for a Colorado CCW.
He is not permitted to legally carry in Colorado until he receives his Colorado CCW permit


Jack was a non-resident of UTAH but resided in ARIZONA when he got his permit. He moved to and was a resident of ILLINOIS, then moved to COLORADO.


As a non-UTAH resident, his UTAH CCW was NEVER recognized by Colorado (either as a AZ resident or as a UTAH resident) and he could not legally carry in Colorado
When he moved to Colorado, his UTAH CCW was not honored in Colorado, as he was not a resident of UTAH
He needs to apply for a Colorado CCW if he wishes to carry in Colorado
His training certificate, however, if not more than 10 years old, will most likely be accepted by the Colorado Sheriff when he applies for a Colorado CCW.
He is not permitted to legally carry in Colorado until he receives his Colorado CCW permit


Fred was a resident of UTAH and obtained a UTAH Resident CCW, but later moved to ILLINOIS, then moved to COLORADO.


As a UTAH resident, his UTAH CCW was recognized by Colorado and he could legally carry in Colorado when he was a resident of UTAH
When he moved to ILLINOIS, he should have filed a change of address with UTAH to update the address on his UTAH CCW.***
As an ILLINOIS resident, his UTAH permit status changed to non-resident, and his UTAH CCW was not honored in Colorado, as he was not a resident of UTAH
When he moved to Colorado, his UTAH CCW was not honored, as he was not a resident of UTAH
He needs to apply for a Colorado CCW if he wishes to carry in Colorado
His training certificate, however, if not more than 10 years old, will most likely be accepted by the Colorado Sheriff when he applies for a Colorado CCW.
He is not permitted to legally carry in Colorado until he receives his Colorado CCW permit



* DL or State issued ID, if he does not get a DL.
** either Permanent or temp/emergency permit
*** Whether he changed the address or not, if he, for some reason, went to court, and the facts were researched, he would still be considered a UTAH non-resident, as providing it could be shown that he had established ILLINOIS residency

ASIDE:
Many of the forum members have a misunderstanding of what the examples I posed represent.
I'll reiterate that "I am not an authority on this topic, but thought it would be interesting to pose a few scenarios and have the members help revise and correct them."
I sort of stuck my neck out, right or wrong, and presented "something" to talk about.

Jayock has the right idea..."007, this part is not right...and here's why"

Thanks Jayock !!! [Coffee]

Things like "You don't know what you are talking about" , although they might be true [ROFL1]
do little to help provide correct info.

[StreetDoctor]

Great news.

TFogger was right on target with his earlier comments in post #5.

And it seems that in the end, the UTAH permit will still be valid in all non-resident reciprocal states except Colorado, and your new COLORADO CCW will cover Colorado.
What we've (i.e. I've) also learned is that your UTAH CCW is valid until 90-days from the date on your Colorado DL.
As it typically takes about 90-days for ACSO to process your Colorado CCW app., be mindful of carrying after the DL+90 date and before you get your Colorado CCW.

Also , see this post for hours of operation for CCW applications at the Adams County Sheriff' Office http://www.ar-15.co/threads/75855-Adams-County-Changes-in-CCW-Process?highlight=adams+county

Yep, Utah will still be good everywhere it previously was outside of CO. Thanks for all the info.

[spqrzilla]

Because CRS 18-12-213(b)(II) does not mention anything about being a resident of the issuing state (only (b)(I) does and the two clauses are separated by "or" ), the wording is such that when your latter three examples are not correct. It is my argument that when those people carrying what were non-resident Utah permits move to Colorado and obtain a Colorado DL, their permits are good for 90 days in Colorado under the reciprocity language.

[J]

Good point. As much as I hate the term "loop-hole", I think you have found just that. I agree with your interpretation.

So you either must have a resident permit from your state of residence, or have moved to Colorado in the last 90 days. I would bet a good bit that this wasn't the intention in scripting the law, but the letter of the law prevails.

So moving from Utah to Illinois with a Utah CCW, as soon as you establish residency in Illinois your permit is invalid.
Moving from Anywhere to Colorado (Utah or any other state besides CO) with a Utah CCW, your permit is valid for 90 days.

A Utah permit is only valid then, if you are a resident of Utah, or have just moved to Colorado in the last 90 days. Not any other circumstances.

[spqrzilla]

That is my interpretation. Its hard to say ( I wrote "hard" not "firm" ... ) whether that was the intention of the legislation that altered the reciprocity rules but since I think it was really to take out the persons who were getting Florida non resident permits and were Colorado residents at the time ... its probably not contrary to the spirit of the amendment.

Now if you presented an LEO with a permit from another state on the reciprocity list together with a Colorado DL with an issue date within 90 days, and that permit had a non resident address printed on it by the issuing state, I'm not saying that every LEO is going to understand this nuance. But if you are arrested, I'd be pretty surprised to see a DA file charges - they can't charge what is not an offense in the statutory language.

[StreetDoctor]

Good point. As much as I hate the term "loop-hole", I think you have found just that. I agree with your interpretation.

So you either must have a resident permit from your state of residence, or have moved to Colorado in the last 90 days. I would bet a good bit that this wasn't the intention in scripting the law, but the letter of the law prevails.

So moving from Utah to Illinois with a Utah CCW, as soon as you establish residency in Illinois your permit is invalid.
Moving from Anywhere to Colorado (Utah or any other state besides CO) with a Utah CCW, your permit is valid for 90 days.

A Utah permit is only valid then, if you are a resident of Utah, or have just moved to Colorado in the last 90 days. Not any other circumstances.


Wrong. I never lived in Utah. I got my Utah Permit (and florida) while living in Illinois. It was good for a number of states including the bordering Indiana and more recently Wisconsin. 31 states accept a non-resident Utah Permit:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

[TFOGGER]

Wrong. I never lived in Utah. I got my Utah Permit (and florida) while living in Illinois. It was good for a number of states including the bordering Indiana and more recently Wisconsin. 31 states accept a non-resident Utah Permit:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

I think J meant as far as Colorado reciprocity was concerned. Once you established Colorado residency, Colorado would honor your Utah permit for 90 days, regardless of your prior residency.

[StreetDoctor]

I think J meant as far as Colorado reciprocity was concerned. Once you established Colorado residency, Colorado would honor your Utah permit for 90 days, regardless of your prior residency.


my misunderstanding :)