Gun Deal at chinese man theater

[glennski]

Went to sell my Bolt action Remington 700 today, we made arrangements to Meet on the South East side away from the door and main area(we've met there before). I had the gun in the back of my Denali, we looked at it for 30 seconds then he put it in the back of his quad cab. We then proceeded to talk guns, reloading excreta and about 35 min later 4 cop cars showed up asking us to put our hands in the air!....We both cooperated with the officers, they wanted to see the rifle, run our drivers license's and answer questions as to why we where doing the deal there and blah blah blah.

So, I'm wondering what everyone thinks about this situation?


I think its a scary reality of what peoples views on guns are right now(after all the crazy in the last 4 months), and it could mean new gun laws I don't want to see...

[Bailey Guns]

I think you should've used a little more discretion. Do the deal and go somewhere else to BS while you have a cup of coffee or a soda. I don't know the area...but obviously you attracted a lot of unwanted attention.

[Ashton]

Given the current events recently I don't think I would be doing gun deals in any parking lot with lots of people around, let alone a theater.

Personally, I think you exercised poor judgement.

[ray1970]

corroborated? Do you mean cooperated?

[Bailey Guns]

corroborated? Do you mean cooperated?

I was curious about the "reloading excreta"? Sounds nasty.

[ray1970]

I was curious about the "reloading excreta"? Sounds nasty.

[LOL]

[dwalker460]

Telling you, Hardware stores- Lowes, Home Depot, etc... Or Sporting goods stores- Sportsmans Warehouse, Bass Pro, etc.

I did a deal at Target one night, and there was a patrol car in the parking lot obviously looking for someone, and he never paid attention to us at all, which probably has more to do with the fact I examined the pistol he traded me with it held inside his Jeep, and he examined the AR I traded him ducked out behind my trunk. Discretion is the better part of valor.

[UrbanWolf]

Some one passing by must have reported you. People are very on edge about guns now, should have been more careful of not showing them out right, even though there is nothing wrong about them in the law.

[BuffCyclist]

I used to meet in Walmart or Sporting Goods store parking lots for firearm or other sales, but that seems to be getting sketchy now even with everyone being so on edge. In all honesty, once the deal is done, if you want to chat, you already have each others' contact information.

I definitely wouldn't have sat around for another 35min talking after having a weapon in plain sight, unless it was at a gun range.

eta: Not saying it was your fault, just that people fear guns now and the TSA has won with their "See something, say something" ad... Is that still going on even?

[SideShow Bob]

Gun case, at least to transfer from your vehicle to the buyers, and yes, a more firearms friendly location would have been better.
Remember, theaters run movies during the day on the weekends.
Were you CCing at the time ? And how did the police handle that if you were ?

[cstone]

A little more description of the cops actions would be interesting.

It sounds like they were responding to a dispatched call. Four cars 35 minutes after the rifle was put away certainly doesn't sound like an urgent call for service. Were their lights activated as the pulled up? Did they hold either of you at gun point? Was anyone placed in handcuffs or the back of a transport vehicle? Once the police had determined that you were no threat, what was their demeanor? Did you get a lecture from any of the officers? How long did the entire interaction with the police last?


Discretion is a valuable skill, however, open display of a firearm, especially an unloaded firearm is not a crime. The police have an obligation to respond and investigate, but we should be careful about giving into the hysteria of the moment.

Be safe.

[glennski]

Gun case, at least to transfer from your vehicle to the buyers, and yes, a more firearms friendly location would have been better.
Remember, theaters run movies during the day on the weekends.
Were you CCing at the time ? And how did the police handle that if you were ?

No we weren't carrying, they did ask.

Also, to the more friendly firearm area, it is my understanding it is illegal to do a private party transaction anywhere where guns are sold, maybe someone can set me straight.

[rondog]

Gotta keep in mind there's goddamn Big Brother cameras EVERYWHERE these days! I've bought a lot of guns from a lot of you guys, and I figure it's just a matter of time before the same scenario happens go me. I always try to keep deals as discrete as possible, keep 'em out of sight.

[glennski]

A little more description of the cops actions would be interesting.

It sounds like they were responding to a dispatched call. Four cars 35 minutes after the rifle was put away certainly doesn't sound like an urgent call for service. Were their lights activated as the pulled up? Did they hold either of you at gun point? Was anyone placed in handcuffs or the back of a transport vehicle? Once the police had determined that you were no threat, what was their demeanor? Did you get a lecture from any of the officers? How long did the entire interaction with the police last?


Discretion is a valuable skill, however, open display of a firearm, especially an unloaded firearm is not a crime. The police have an obligation to respond and investigate, but we should be careful about giving into the hysteria of the moment.

Be safe.

The first car pulled up by him self with his lights on, got out of the car with his hands on his sidearm and asked us to take our hands out of our pockets and put them in the air. Then the other 3 cars came in and 1 had lights on then he shut them off. They asked what we were doing, they asked why we didn't meet at one of our homes to do the transaction. Then they ran our drivers license's. Then two of the other officers went ahead checked out the rifle in the car and another did give us a little of his opinions about doing a gun transaction in public. They then gave us our drivers licenses back and went on our way. I will say, the gun was in plain site for less then a minute in the rear of a parking lot, which i feel is being fairly discreet. I really have a hard time treating a gun transaction like I'm doing something wrong, but that is what it is coming too..

[wreave]

As nice as it would be to conduct a firearm sale in some random parking lot with no questions asked, we are in a tough spot. When conducting a sale of anything to a person you don't know, it's smart to meet in a public place, but inspecting a firearm in a parking lot is likely to bring some unwanted scrutiny.

As others have mentioned, I guess you just gotta do the inspection in such a way that no one driving by even sees what you're doing.

I would be really freaked out if the cops showed up and held me at gunpoint, asked for my license, asked if I had a CCW/was carrying. If no laws were broken, and it's obvious/apparent that no laws were broken, I don't think the cops have the right to ask for any of that - or more to the point, they can ask, but I have the right to refuse. We don't live in a "show me your papers" state... at least not yet.

[rondog]

JMHO, but I feel such a visit by the po-po would call for the utmost in politeness and cooperation. Certainly NOT a time to be uncooperative and start yapping about "rights", or refusing anything.

[blacklabel]

No we weren't carrying, they did ask.

It sounds like you already knew the buyer but a transaction like that is the first place I carry regardless of how well I know the other party.

[Ridge]

Pretty stupid to display a weapon in the parking lot of a theater, methinks...

[Whistler]

Well it looks like it's working, they've managed to place a stigma on perfectly legal transactions convincing members of a gun forum to condone skulking around as though they were conducting a drug deal. A sad day indeed.

[ben4372]

two things. 35 minutes is not super fast, isn't Arapahoe county sheriff's office that far on foot? Who'd thunk it would be less shameful to buy weed than a legal firearm. I bought a juicer in a parking lot from a dude on craig's list. No cops.

[spqrzilla]

Also, to the more friendly firearm area, it is my understanding it is illegal to do a private party transaction anywhere where guns are sold, maybe someone can set me straight.

No such law. It is illegal to do a private party transaction at a gun show, or with any part of the transaction occuring at a gun show, without having a background check done. (With a couple of exceptions like for Curios and Relics ...)

[spqrzilla]

Well it looks like it's working, they've managed to place a stigma on perfectly legal transactions convincing members of a gun forum to condone skulking around as though they were conducting a drug deal. A sad day indeed.

Nonsense. "They" created concerns that people with firearms hanging around large public gatherings like movie theaters might be planning a mass shooting. "They" being the Century 16 shooter, the Clackamas Mall shooter, and the CT shooter. I see nothing wrong with police response in the described incident.

[sniper7]

people are edge, someone saw you and it all worked out okay. the police did their job, you did your job and everyone went home happy. too bad people are soo up tight, but given the recent events I can't blame them too much.

[BPTactical]

JMHO, but I feel such a visit by the po-po would call for the utmost in politeness and cooperation. Certainly NOT a time to be in cooperative and start yapping about "rights", or refusing anything.

Yup, pick your battles.
Face it, in the environment today anything to do with firearms is going to be demonized.
As far as the LE giving you his "opinion" it is exactly that and not the law.

As far as deals at Sportsmans or such remember, if a transaction is conducted on the premises of a FFL, a 4473 must be executed at time of transfer. Let's not put them in a bad spot.

thank god you weren't swapping porn.......the horror

Or is it whore?

[spqrzilla]

thank god you weren't swapping porn.......the horror

Or is it whore?We don't know they weren't ... two men in a car together ... for 35 minutes?

[BPTactical]

We don't know they weren't ... two men in a car together ... for 35 minutes?

Good point.........

Craigslist?

[glennski]

We don't know they weren't ... two men in a car together ... for 35 minutes?


Lol, I guess you could call it "gun porn", that 338 Lapua looks like porn its so sweet. Why do you think all the officers went to look at it!

[wctriumph]

I once bought a 92FS from a cop in a CSU parking lot, his choice of location, on a Sunday afternoon.

I usually like to meet at a sporting goods store if at all possible.

[asmo]

So, I'm wondering what everyone thinks about this situation?


You chose poorly.

[TriggerHappy]

Well it looks like it's working, they've managed to place a stigma on perfectly legal transactions convincing members of a gun forum to condone skulking around as though they were conducting a drug deal. A sad day indeed.

I agree. I think there should be some discretion, but I am a little disapointed with some of these comments. I don't see a problem with the quick exchange (preferably conceal it next time) from one vehicle to another. If you want to chat, have at it. Now I would agree with most here, if you were breaking the law, but it doesn't sound like to you were. What's next? Seriously? I'm at a loss for words.

[TriggerHappy]

Nonsense. "They" created concerns that people with firearms hanging around large public gatherings like movie theaters might be planning a mass shooting. "They" being the Century 16 shooter, the Clackamas Mall shooter, and the CT shooter. I see nothing wrong with police response in the described incident.

I could understand if they were waiving it around in the air, pointing it at passerbys, etc. maybe even chasing each other around the cars. If it was a real concern I would hope it would be faster than 35 min. Just saying.

I don't see anything wrong with what you guys did, or where you chose to do it.

[Whistler]

Nonsense. "They" created concerns that people with firearms hanging around large public gatherings like movie theaters might be planning a mass shooting. "They" being the Century 16 shooter, the Clackamas Mall shooter, and the CT shooter. I see nothing wrong with police response in the described incident.

I too see nothing wrong with the police response.

Not nonsense, fact, did you read the comments in this thread? It matters not a bit who "they" happen to be as this is SOP; demonize the target group, item or issue such that persecution of the group, item or issue is generally sanctioned. Use anecdotes in place of facts calling out as "racist" or "hateful" any attempt at correction or education, promote distortion and magnification of the scale and impact of the issue, characterize any remaining supporters as "crazy" or "delusional" with no regard for life, a hatred of children / bunnies to invalidate any opinion they might hold. And so on until we hide and skulk to participate in our "anti-social" behavior for fear of discrimination and reprisal. What I'm pointing out is a shift in the legitimacy of the issue and that while I am as horrified and saddened as anyone at the senseless tragedies, the response is disproportionate and is exploited to generate a negative public sentiment toward gun owners. That is evidenced in this thread and others I've seen throughout the web such as gun owners voicing support for restrictions on guns they don't happen to use for example.

The examples of this approach are numerous throughout history. Everyone fears the bear but this is more like being pecked to death by a duck. It's only "common sense" that we be low-key in exercising our rights because "people are upset right now". It's only "reasonable" that we compromise our rights and support further restrictions that will serve to penalize lawful upstanding gun owners and have no impact on this emotional issue but "we took action, did something". We shouldn't be hiding, we should be joining the dialog to help shape something that might make a difference instead of tacitly supporting an emotional response that only serves to punish the innocent.

My heart goes out to the victims and families of those tragedies but they were perpetrated by crazies that bear no resemblance to the 80 million gun owners who commit no crime. I'm likewise sensitive to the emotions stirred (in large part) by media, politicians and groups pushing an agenda but I and millions of others have done no wrong and I'll be damned if they'll make me feel like a criminal. Hide in the shadows if you like but please don't dismiss my opinion as "nonsense" or try to convince me "it's the right thing to do".

[rondog]

As far as deals at Sportsmans or such remember, if a transaction is conducted on the premises of a FFL, a 4473 must be executed at time of transfer. Let's not put them in a bad spot.


This, I did not know! I'll have to remember this. Thanks for the heads up!

[PugnacAutMortem]

I agree. I think there should be some discretion, but I am a little disapointed with some of these comments. I don't see a problem with the quick exchange (preferably conceal it next time) from one vehicle to another. If you want to chat, have at it. Now I would agree with most here, if you were breaking the law, but it doesn't sound like to you were. What's next? Seriously? I'm at a loss for words.

I agree...I'm actually blown away by the comments on here. Was the theater parking lot the best place to do this? Probably not, but when it comes down to it it's not illegal to make a firearms transaction in a parking lot. But seriously...most of you don't have ANY problems with the LEO response? Someone above said "pick your battles"...well I really can't see how this isn't the EXACT type of battle that should be picked. Are we really going to let the sheeple demonize a legal transaction just because it makes them feel funny? Let's just keep giving them an inch folks...

[Whistler]

I didn't see anything wrong with the police response in following up on a dispatch call. No telling what was called in and except for the opinions (everyone has them) it sounds as though they handled it appropriately. Not that the cops should be called in the first place but once they are they can't reasonably just ignore it.

[spqrzilla]

Was the theater parking lot the best place to do this? Probably not, but when it comes down to it it's not illegal to make a firearms transaction in a parking lot. But seriously...most of you don't have ANY problems with the LEO response? Someone above said "pick your battles"...well I really can't see how this isn't the EXACT type of battle that should be picked. Are we really going to let the sheeple demonize a legal transaction just because it makes them feel funny? Let's just keep giving them an inch folks...

See this is where you and others got completely lost. Nobody "demonized" a transaction. Whoever called the police did know that that was what was being done in the parking lot.

And yes, it wasn't illegal. And no one got arrested.

[lead_magnet]

I agree...I'm actually blown away by the comments on here. Was the theater parking lot the best place to do this? Probably not, but when it comes down to it it's not illegal to make a firearms transaction in a parking lot. But seriously...most of you don't have ANY problems with the LEO response? Someone above said "pick your battles"...well I really can't see how this isn't the EXACT type of battle that should be picked. Are we really going to let the sheeple demonize a legal transaction just because it makes them feel funny? Let's just keep giving them an inch folks...

Lets not get crazy here. Did the cops take his guns? No. Did they beat him up and demand answers? No. Did the caller tell 911 "I just saw two normal looking good guys selling a perfectly legal bolt action rifle and they are smiling and appear perfectly harmless"? Probably not. What they probably got was a 911 call from some scared and audibly upset person stating "There are two guys outside of this movie theater with a rifle, it looks like they are waiting for a movie to let out" or something to that degree. The story the cops get is the skewed and blown out of proportion view of the caller, which is the story they have to go by until they figure out what the hell is really going on.

Now, to address the second issue. The choice of location. Just a few days ago I traded a firearm to another forum member for another firearm. We met in springs, and the northern side of springs just off of I-25 was looking to be the most convenient place for both parties, and was a fair middle ground. Did we meet at the mall just off of academy? Hell no, that would be ridiculous, there was just a shooting in a mall, and we both agreed, that would be pretty dumb, as it would freak people out. We picked a nearby McDonalds. When we show up, there was an armored car parked at the entrace doorway, obviously getting the money to take it to the bank. We both get out of our vehicles, nothing in hand and chuckle, both saying to some degree "looks like we are waiting until they leave". After they left we parked in the back by the dumpsters opened the doors of the vehicles to obscure anyone's view of what we were doing. Deal was completed without a hiccup.

Now, is it illegal to conduct a firearms transaction in front of an armored car? No, it isn't.

Is it just a plain stupid to pull an AR-15 out of your trunk in front of an armored car? Fuck yeah it is. For that matter, is it illegal to walk into a bank with a ski mask on? No, but are you going to bring down a world of chaotic hell on yourself? Yup.

This is just simple mistake of a poorly chosen meeting spot and perhaps not the best attention to one's surroundings. No big deal though really. Not a major mistake on anyone's part. At least the OP complied and was a cooperative gentleman and not a raging asshole screaming "you fucking assholes are violating my constitutional rights!, blah blah blah". Use it to learn from and move on.

/rant

[PugnacAutMortem]

This is just simple mistake of a poorly chosen meeting spot and perhaps not the best attention to one's surroundings. No big deal though really. Not a major mistake on anyone's part. At least the OP complied and was a cooperative gentleman and not a raging asshole screaming "you fucking assholes are violating my constitutional rights!, blah blah blah". Use it to learn from and move on.

Well if it came off as that was the type of reaction I was advocating for then my apologies because I definitely do not think that is an appropriate response in any situation. "Battle" is a strong word and I probably shouldn't have used it.

I think TriggerHappy hit the nail on the head though, we are being relagated to skulking around to alleviate people unconfortable feeling about guns. I personally don't like feeling like I'm doing something wrong because someone doesn't know the law and just simply thinks I'm doing something wrong. I definitely agree the place could have been chosen more carefully...but at the same time I think it's our duty to help educate folks to the fact that guns aren't bad and to use their head in situations like these.

[DSull]

I use the parking lot of the local S/O, never had a problem except some people don't like to show up there hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wonder why.

[Aloha_Shooter]

+1 to lead_magnet's comments

[Teufelhund]

The Arapahoe Sheriff's office is just about 5 minutes from this theater, assuming you don't have lights and sirens to run the traffic lights, probably faster if you do. If it took them 35 minutes to show up, either the cops were not in a panic and just stopped by to follow up on the call (as they should be expected to do) or did take it as a possible emergency and provided a great pro-CCW argument by taking over half an hour to respond.

It sounds like some of you have already been indoctrinated into the mindset that it's best to hide out behind a dumpster and trade your guns as if it's a drug deal. I think it's sad that you feel this way, but it's not my place to tell you how to act; irrational fear is already handling that for you. I wonder what a bystander would think upon seeing two guys looking over their shoulders and quickly exchanging guns in a dark alley, as opposed to seeing them clearly out in the open, not hiding, and acting as though the exchange were perfectly normal, acceptable, and legal. Act like you're doing something wrong, and it will be perceived that you are, in fact, doing something wrong.

[spqrzilla]

It sounds like some of you have already been indoctrinated into the mindset that it's best to hide out behind a dumpster and trade your guns as if it's a drug deal. I think it's sad that you feel this way, but it's not my place to tell you how to act; irrational fear is already handling that for you.

It looks like we've got a contest going on "Not Getting The Point".

[PugnacAutMortem]

The Arapahoe Sheriff's office is just about 5 minutes from this theater, assuming you don't have lights and sirens to run the traffic lights, probably faster if you do. If it took them 35 minutes to show up, either the cops were not in a panic and just stopped by to follow up on the call (as they should be expected to do) or did take it as a possible emergency and provided a great pro-CCW argument by taking over half an hour to respond.

It sounds like some of you have already been indoctrinated into the mindset that it's best to hide out behind a dumpster and trade your guns as if it's a drug deal. I think it's sad that you feel this way, but it's not my place to tell you how to act; irrational fear is already handling that for you. I wonder what a bystander would think upon seeing two guys looking over their shoulders and quickly exchanging guns in a dark alley, as opposed to seeing them clearly out in the open, not hiding, and acting as though the exchange were perfectly normal, acceptable, and legal. Act like you're doing something wrong, and it will be perceived that you are, in fact, doing something wrong.

[word]