sovereign citizen

[Atrain1]

I found it kind of interesting that you can give up your right to be a US citizen. I remember hearing about it along time ago but never gave it much thought. Is there any Pros to doing this? Seems like the cons would out weigh the pros to me, but I guess I could be wrong.

[Great-Kazoo]

WRONG? mods i think someone hacked atrains account, Or i hope they did. JEEZZZ Criminey Dude.
Stop reread what you posted then ask the mods to delete it. Give up your citizenship, for what? Lets see the middle east has great relocation spots, south america, si', canucksville, Eh?
No matter how bad it gets here it will always pale in comparison to another country. How many languages, besides english, are you fluent in now?

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I found it kind of interesting that you can give up your right to be a US citizen. I remember hearing about it along time ago but never gave it much thought. Is there any Pros to doing this? Seems like the cons would out weigh the pros to me, but I guess I could be wrong.

Go jump off a bridge.

[Great-Kazoo]

Go jump off a bridge.

In another country they'd help him jump.

[Bailey Guns]

I found it kind of interesting that you can give up your right to be a US citizen. I remember hearing about it along time ago but never gave it much thought. Is there any Pros to doing this?

I guess you could accurately claim Barack Obama was no longer "your" president. Other than that you probably need to put such nonsense out of your mind.

[cofi]

In another country they'd help him jump.

well they would at least patch him up for free :P

[Atrain1]

I just do not understand why someone would do it I guess. I looked it up cause i was talking to someone who thinks the law no longer would apply to them. I personally like having my rights as an American and would not give them up even if that were true.

[Atrain1]

WRONG? mods i think someone hacked atrains account, Or i hope they did. JEEZZZ Criminey Dude.
Stop reread what you posted then ask the mods to delete it. Give up your citizenship, for what? Lets see the middle east has great relocation spots, south america, si', canucksville, Eh?
No matter how bad it gets here it will always pale in comparison to another country. How many languages, besides english, are you fluent in now?I think you misunderstood my post Jim I am not wanting to do it, I just found it interesting that people do it. Seems like the people who do are whack jobs.

[Great-Kazoo]

I just do not understand why someone would do it I guess. I looked it up cause i was talking to someone who thinks the law no longer would apply to them. I personally like having my rights as an American and would not give them up even if that were true.

Who are they? I can help them to any bordering country, preferably the southern one.

[brutal]

So "someone" thinks they can just give up their citizenship and STAY HERE without repercussions? [ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL]

Just a guess, but I suspect this one is not the sharpest tool in the shed?

[cstone]

Advantages????

Well you could gin up several identity and financial fraud schemes while committing felony tax evasion. You could annoy every other person in the US with frivolous law suits including every politician, judge, and law enforcement official (local, state, and federal) to the point that everyone who maintains citizenship in the USA would be willing to pay for your room/board and health care during a long stretch at Club Fed.

So if you really would like to be a sovereign citizen and you have aspirations of spending lots of time doing pushups and situps with your bunkmate in your 6x8, Via con Dios!

Be safe.

[ruthabagah]

Let me chime on this one: I know people who renounced their US citizenship. It's for the Taxes. Basically, no matter where you live you will always as a US citizen owe some money to the tax man. Even if you live abroad, have a business abroad and no income in the US you have to report your foreign income and be taxed here....

Personally, I wouldn't do it for an empire! And I know that one day I will have pay tax in 2 countries.

[jerrymrc]

All yours gang........

[cstone]

I've heard that you can get 100 miles per a gallon of tap water in a regular engine. All you need is this little device that the oil companies and the US government has been keeping secret from the rest of us.

Seriously, I read it on the Interwebz [hahhah-no]

[Atrain1]

Let me chime on this one: I know people who renounced their US citizenship. It's for the Taxes. Basically, no matter where you live you will always as a US citizen owe some money to the tax man. Even if you live abroad, have a business abroad and no income in the US you have to report your foreign income and be taxed here....

Personally, I wouldn't do it for an empire! And I know that one day I will have pay tax in 2 countries.I agree I could not find to much info on it but what I did find was not good. It is usually done by extremest who blow things up or hurt law enforcement, I really wish i would not have looked it and hope that anyone monitoring my computer (if doing so) does not think that I have any kind of assotiation with these type of people nor do I want to.

[blacklabel]

I agree I could not find to much info on it but what I did find was not good. It is usually done by extremest who blow things up or hurt law enforcement, I really wish i would not have looked it and hope that anyone monitoring my computer (if doing so) does not think that I have any kind of assotiation with these type of people nor do I want to.

You were given the answer twice in this thread and then state that it's done by extremists that blow things up and hurt law enforcement?

Here it is a third time with a whole article on why people do it.

Should You Renounce Your U.S. Citizenship? (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802.html)

[merl]

I found it kind of interesting that you can give up your right to be a US citizen. I remember hearing about it along time ago but never gave it much thought. Is there any Pros to doing this? Seems like the cons would out weigh the pros to me, but I guess I could be wrong.

maybe if very rich. US expects you to pay income tax no matter where you live. But your first thought was correct for most of us, the cons would balance higher.

[mevshooter]

If I give up my citizenship will I get free/discounted healthcare, tuition, housing, and be tax-free?

[Neene1]

[blacklabel]

If I give up my citizenship will I get free/discounted healthcare, tuition, housing, and be tax-free?

[Neene1]

Only if you re-enter through Mexico.

[ANADRILL]

I just do not understand why someone would do it I guess. I looked it up cause i was talking to someone who thinks the law no longer would apply to them. I personally like having my rights as an American and would not give them up even if that were true.

What rights, seems they are being blown to the wind as we speak...

[AK47 Ranger]

This will not end well.......

[Atrain1]

You were given the answer twice in this thread and then state that it's done by extremists that blow things up and hurt law enforcement?

Here it is a third time with a whole article on why people do it.

Should You Renounce Your U.S. Citizenship? (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802.html)T his is what I was talking about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement

[sroz]

All yours gang........

[Pop]

[Thanks]

[sniper7]

anybody got an extra obamaphone?

[Atrain1]

Look at the "Pros" this guy is talking about there is no way. And the way it was explained to me was a bit different and I did not realize it was giving up being an American essentially. But anyway this is what this guy is trying to sell. http://www.discharge-debt.com/id73.htm

[asmo]

There is a specific procedure to do this: To renounce U.S. citizenship, you must go in person to a U.S. embassy or consulate outside the U.S. and sign before a consular officer an oath or affirmation that you intend to renounce your citizenship.

The only reason to ever do it is if you are rich and have LOTS O' money someplace else -- and you are already there.

[Atrain1]

I think a lot of things I post on here are misunderstood and I think some of the people that have met me might attest to this.

[bryjcom]

anybody got an extra obamaphone?


Why? You want to hit Atrain with it??

[Tinelement]

Ahhhhhh

The Houdini thread.....

Shoulda left her closed.

[Zundfolge]

If you renounce your citizenship you lose your 2A rights (at least in so far as buying through a dealer ... and if they get the end of the "gun show loophole" ALL transactions will have to go through a dealer).

There's a line item on the 4473 that directly asks you if you've renounced your citizenship ... you check "yes" and the transaction is over and you leave without a new gun.

[centrarchidae]

Renunciation of citizenship, to be recognized, needs to be done in person, to a US Consulate officer, while abroad.

Advantage: no longer liable for US taxes.

Disadvantages: You'll never legally enter the US again.

Anything that claims you can renounce, while in the US, and stay here, is a bunch of Freetard crap.

[StagLefty]

Is the air thinner in Greeley ???

[Great-Kazoo]

Is the air thinner in Greeley ???

Not really read this shit i C&P from the pearlmutter awb thread.
I hate to be the non angry accepting person... But it's coming and after all those kids got shot I don't think it can be stopped. I'm just looking to profit from it financially, while keeping my personal stash.

One liberal disappears another 2 take their place. #@$%^ ME

[Atrain1]

Renunciation of citizenship, to be recognized, needs to be done in person, to a US Consulate officer, while abroad.

Advantage: no longer liable for US taxes.

Disadvantages: You'll never legally enter the US again.

Anything that claims you can renounce, while in the US, and stay here, is a bunch of Freetard crap.And this is one of the reasons I looked into it. My friend who wants to do this thinks he can stay here and speed on the highways and pretty much not have to abide by any of the laws. I also like learning new stuff and found it interesting that people actually do this. So in no way shape or form am I going to give up my citizenship nor leave my country that my family has fought for no matter how bad it gets. My friend is not a bad gy either so do not get the wrong idea of the company I keep. He is just freaking out about losing his guns and thinks this might be the answer. He also was only talking about doing it if Obama declared marshal law.

[zteknik]

So if you renounce your citizenship and get caught staying here-where do they deport you to????Chicago???

[Atrain1]

So if you renounce your citizenship and get caught staying here-where do they deport you to????Chicago???That is a good question cause as I understand it now you do not belong to any country.

[zteknik]

That is a good question cause as I understand it now you do not belong to any country.
Would they then bring back your citizenship just so they can charge you with whatever the crime and incarcirate you??
The whole thing sounds loopy...

[Inspector Fowler]

And this is one of the reasons I looked into it. My friend who wants to do this thinks he can stay here and speed on the highways and pretty much not have to abide by any of the laws. I also like learning new stuff and found it interesting that people actually do this. So in no way shape or form am I going to give up my citizenship nor leave my country that my family has fought for no matter how bad it gets. My friend is not a bad gy either so do not get the wrong idea of the company I keep. He is just freaking out about losing his guns and thinks this might be the answer. He also was only talking about doing it if Obama declared marshal law.

The Sovereign Citizens are a dangerous group, as has been mentioned here.

Explain it gently to your friend, who does not sound like the kind of person who will make a cardboard license plate and somehow think that laws do not apply to him. I work in a college town and I write plenty of tickets to foreign nationals every semester, and that seems to work out just fine with our court system.

In another thread I said that all that will happen is liberal politicians will wax poetic about the dangers of high cap mags, and their voters will hold vigils for them. Conservative politicians will fail to bring up the issue of our disgusting mental health system because fixing it will take money, and increasing taxes (even as a way to hold down 2A rights for the tens of millions of safe, legal gun owners) would enrage their base, so they'll "stand firm" on gun control and conservatives will laud their courage. In the end, something similar to the old AWB will be passed. I am not saying this is a good thing, it is disgraceful. But we will not have the National Guard patrolling College Ave in FoCo, taking guns away from people on "the list".

Martial Law is not going to happen. I can say that confidently because if it does, I highly doubt this particular forum will still be online so that you can all prove how wrong I was ;)

[speedysst]

Actually there are ways to become an expat. Most of it has to do with taxes though. I even had a list of the best countries to be an expat including Panama, Costa Rica and South Africa.

[GilpinGuy]

I read the OP and decided to reply before reading the other replies so I wouldn't be swayed.

I got married June 11, 2011. My wife is from Laos and came here when she was 4 years old as a refugee from the Communists with her family. She never got her citizenship (long story) but was a legal "Resident Alien" when I met her. My dad was born on a farm in England and came to the US when he was 5, got his citizenship asap. Remind me to tell you the story of how I was almost an Aussie...LOL.

Immediately after getting married my wife and I both wanted that she get naturalized as quickly as possible. We could have waited the X# of years (5 years I think?) before it became automatic, but she and I both wanted to do it ASAP. My wife wanted to be a US Citizen BADLY, and also to take my last name. The man she was with before me was also from Laos and didn't have these pro-US feeling. Get it?

I didn't have to explain the reasons to her for becoming a US Citizen. She heard the story over and over again about how her dad, then in the Laos Army, got my wife, her brother, her mom and himself onto a boat that was shot at as it escaped Laos. Luckily they all escaped the Communists...and are my family now. Great people.

I just can't imagine someone saying "F-it! I don't want to be an American Citizen any more!" unless they are either a flaming Communist or out of their mind (same thing).

[buffalobo]

There used to be a member/supporter of Sovereign Citizen movement on another gun forum I frequent. Dumbass got gang raped every time he posted SC stuff. Was always good for a page or two of entertainment before getting locked or deleted.

As to giving up citizenship for tax purposes. Anyone who would do so ain't much of a citizen to begin with and should be encouraged to GTFO.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Are you all aware that 5280 Armory is owned by a Sovereign Citizen.....?

[asmo]

Are you all aware that 5280 Armory is owned by a Sovereign Citizen.....?

How did they get back into the country after they renounced their citizenship?

[JM Ver. 2.0]

How did they get back into the country after they renounced their citizenship?

I'm not talking about that... They're members of the Sovereign Citizen movement.

An anti government and anti LE group.

Look it up.

[fitz19d]

Seen plenty of youtubes by wannabe or actual sovereign nutcases. I think they are listed by some LEO as extemely dangerous. (And the radical ones I believe it from what I've seen.) Not people I'd want to associate with.

[Atrain1]

Seen plenty of youtubes by wannabe or actual sovereign nutcases. I think they are listed by some LEO as extemely dangerous. (And the radical ones I believe it from what I've seen.) Not people I'd want to associate with.I completely agree I wish I never would have looked it up.

[blacklabel]

I completely agree I wish I never would have looked it up.

Better watch out. They might come looking to ask questions about your sudden interest in this movement.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Better watch out. They might come looking to ask questions about your sudden interest in this movement.

Highly possible.... There's a lot of websites on watch lists.

[blacklabel]

Highly possible.... There's a lot of websites on watch lists.

You seem to know quite a bit about it.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

You seem to know quite a bit about it.

It came up in discussion at work. My sergeant has done a stupid amount of research into them. He went off on a twenty five minute soapbox about them. Smart guy, but as soon as he gets going he doesn't stop.

[Inspector Fowler]

It came up in discussion at work. My sergeant has done a stupid amount of research into them. He went off on a twenty five minute soapbox about them. Smart guy, but as soon as he gets going he doesn't stop.

I don't know about your agency, but we get probably 4-6 e-mails a year from Federal and State agencies around the country detailing things the SC have done that are incredibly dangerous.

Ironically, it is the freedom and tolerance that the US has that prevents them from being rounded up (as would obviously happen in many, many other countries if you armed yourself, declared yourself to be violently opposed to the government, and members of your group started committing violent and disruptive acts). Note - I don't advocate rounding people up. I just think it's funny when any group says, "America sucks!" and then gets away with a bunch of shenanigans because America does not, in fact, suck.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I don't know about your agency, but we get probably 4-6 e-mails a year from Federal and State agencies around the country detailing things the SC have done that are incredibly dangerous.

Ironically, it is the freedom and tolerance that the US has that prevents them from being rounded up (as would obviously happen in many, many other countries if you armed yourself, declared yourself to be violently opposed to the government, and members of your group started committing violent and disruptive acts). Note - I don't advocate rounding people up. I just think it's funny when any group says, "America sucks!" and then gets away with a bunch of shenanigans because America does not, in fact, suck.

Yeah. I don't get those emails... They bypass me.. I'm sure I could get on "the list" if I asked.

[BushMasterBoy]

I guess in the outback of Alaska you could be a sovereign citizen. You could live a 100 miles away from another living soul. Spend all your time hunting and fishing for food. Not work a job, and not pay taxes. One can only dream...

[Mtn.man]

Duh illegals,,,
You might even have better chances of
getting a home
getting a new truck
better medical
NO IRS,,,

[MrPrena]

A person who is legal sovereign citizen (w/o country), they are living in US illegally.
If they really must give up their US citizenship, I recommend them to at least find a country that will give them a citizenship.
THere are countries who will accept some number of immigrants, but getting harder and harder.

[sellersm]

So what happens if you lose your citizenship in a boating accident? [Coffee]

[Atrain1]

I talked to my buddy today and just as I figured he only had parts and pieces of info on it. When I told him what I found out about it he was not for it at all. I explained to him it is an extremist movement and that all of the stuff he was told was a bunch of crap. The guy that told him about it made it seem like it was the greatest thing in the world. I put the 2 web sites I went to on here so I do not think it is a big deal, I am definitely done looking into it as I found out all I need to know.

[T-Giv]

Yes Sovereigns go around the country "teaching" others to be sovereigns. It's a business for a lot of them and they make pretty good money doing it. Catch phrases like "Don't pay your mortgage but don't lose your house" paperwork schemes. Every sovereign I've dealt with thus far has been a ginormous doucher.