A PSA FOR THE TRADING POST - PLEASE READ. [Archive] - Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums

Mazin

01-06-2013, 15:17

I would like to throw out a few things and re-iterate a few as well;

1. There are no "Bidding" or "Make an Offer" ad's here, this is not gunbroker or armslist.
2. When you respond to an ad and pm someone that you will "Take it" be a Man / Woman of Honor and Integrity and follow through. If you have an issue or cannot follow through on the deal. Work with the member selling the item, don't just cease communication.
3. The feedback thread is there not only for positive comments. If you have a negative experience with a member and cannot work it out directly with them then leave feedback.
4. I also agree that Ad's are not little personal conversation area's. Questions and Comments Should be Directed at the Item for sale and not what someone did last night.
5. All "Offers" Should be sent via PM, to leave it in the ad is not only distasteful but it creates a "Bidding" atmosphere.
6. If you don't like the price of an item then don't buy or send any rude pricing comments. Any distasteful comments left in the ad will earn the member a loss in TP / Site privileges.

Marlin

01-22-2013, 19:53

Going to get ugly tonight. All I can say is if you have posted some snide comment in the WTS area in the last couple of days I feel sorry for ya.

I'm done with it. If they do enough to get a ban hammer Make it 6 months minimum.

jerrymrc

01-29-2013, 16:00

A few wanted to comment on this but the thread was locked so I will put it here as well.

Since this has for the most part been posted before and after some thought I will put a few things out there.[Flower]

First. Colorado ar-15 staff looks like this:

MARLIN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everybody else

Every swinging dick on the staff is the same. For the most part colors for the staff just mean things they want to do but every staff member has the ability to ban/put in timeout or do anything to a member. Some of the staff have topics/forums that they take more interest in than others. Some things are done as a group and some are done as individuals.

We are not in the mood to rain on anyone's parade but when we do PM you about a concern please understand that we are human and shooters as well. Some things we do are for the good of the community. Some things we do are for the good of the board. some things we do are to protect you from yourself (yes we know you are not fond of that)

This is a private board and as such is under the control of the owner. We did not twist your arm to join nor did your neighbor sign you up for a subscription without you knowing about it. We do not send out a bill every month but we wish Marlin would so we could get paid for this.

So when we send you a message normally we are trying to nudge you by saying that the course your on may not be the best one. Of course outright stupidity is dealt with on another level.

This is just another PSA trying to help the members out. to put this in perspective replies to the staff that include:

FUCK YOU.

You need to apologize to me right now.

I have rights.

I can do whatever I want.

I will do whatever I want.

Ban me now because this place sucks.

I could give a shit about the rules.

I will sue you and own this place.

Hi. I don't understand why my son/husband/uncle was banned.

I will tell Marlin.

Remove me from your membership NOW.

Do not ever edit my posts.

I will get you.

Ginsue edit on 6/02/13
This came in last night from someone in New Hampshire that wouldn't update their profile location after 2 attempts (just sharing some of the highlights)
Have no idea what this is all about but it's apparently nonsense from some apparently self important assholes with yet another pointless gun related web site.
Your WEB site is hollow and uninteresting and obviously shaping up as another Internet failure! And, I'm now banned until June 4th! Hey stupid. . . Nobody cares! . . .
In summary and I will place this in terms that even an ignorant fool from Colorado can understand . . . "Fuck-Off"! . .
As you can imagine, his 5 day ban is now permanent and I've blocked his whole IP subnet range so anyone else in his area of NH wanting to access the site can thank him for not getting to come share in the good times. -Ginsue

And others we have seen in the last couple of years generally do not get you anywhere. Just a thought. [Flower]

And a new addition. "No need to be a prick about it. " that is a 7 day time out.

Just a thought.

jerrymrc

12-20-2014, 20:18

Cleaned it up a bit and will let this drop back down. Yes we have rules in place but trying to use them as a means to say or do things goes nowhere. Just because it is not exactly written down does not mean it is fair game. I have 13yo grandchildren that try and use that tactic. This is a Family board. Like I said a long time ago when we try and nudge you there is a reason behind it. Hope everyone has a great Holiday season.[Flower]

buffalobo

04-14-2017, 08:19

sportbikeco

04-15-2017, 19:22

How about bumping a post to say its sold.

Just edit the first post.

buffalobo

04-15-2017, 21:49

How about bumping a post to say its sold.

Just edit the first post.
Proper procedure is to use the triangle "Report Post" icon and type "sold".

If you're unarmed, you are a victim

theGinsue

04-15-2017, 22:08

Proper procedure is to use the triangle "Report Post" icon and type "sold".

+1, this.

When you do it this way a message is left for the staff telling us which post/thread needs modifying. We can find it quickly and update the title/close the thread. This helps save other members from viewing obsolete threads, and save you from getting PM's for items you've sold, traded or withdrawn.

I found at least 1/2 dozen threads this morning where the items were no longer available but the staff hadn't been notified to close the thread (a few had comments in the thread indicating the iems were no longer available, but I only knew that by viewing each of them).

theGinsue

07-31-2017, 18:24

Sorry Mods,
I've been doing it wrong. I would update the first post in thread, and PM y'all..... I'll use the report post from now on......

Bob your fine just getting a lot of people not doing anything with outdated ads your good bro.

+1

That process works just as well as the "Report Post" option but is more work for the member. We want to keep things as easy on you guys as we can. Use whatever works for you so long as the staff knows we can update the title on and close the threads.

Danimal

08-04-2017, 11:47

Can we also stop using photobucket? I don't know about anyone else but it is a slow loading spam factory, and I just wont even bother looking at your pictures if you post them there. There are so many other better options out there, imgur and others load quickly and there are not a pile of popups to block.

Figured I would through this in there and see what others think.

theGinsue

08-04-2017, 23:15

All in same day.

1. Bump/BTT
2. Pictures added
3. trades added
4. price lowered
5. Make me an cash money offers!

That is just too much bumping.

Especially when those updates can be done in the original post.

If someone PM's me the thread URL or, in the future, uses the "Report post" button, I will merge the multiple posts into 1 post (probably into the OP. We have no problem with 1 bump a day or actually updating the thread with new info, but actions like you describe here are poorly veiled bumps. That sort of thing isn't acceptable.

Great-Kazoo

08-05-2017, 07:44

If someone PM's me the thread URL or, in the future, uses the "Report post" button, I will merge the multiple posts into 1 post (probably into the OP. We have no problem with 1 bump a day or actually updating the thread with new info, but actions like you describe here are poorly veiled bumps. That sort of thing isn't acceptable.

Why is that your responsibility or even necessary ?
Between this OP for notifying a mod once item sold, and bumping it as a reminder. If a forum member does multiple bumps / BTT in a 24 hr period, EXCEPT to say item is SOLD or SPF. That For Sale Item should be locked or removed.

TheGrey

08-16-2017, 18:19

From terms and conditions thread that all who post in Trading post have acknowledged.

xii. You may "bump" your threads no more than once per day.

Starting to see too many short bumps. Trading post is a busy place but once a day will still typically keep ad on first page.

Here's a reminder, folks. I get that the newbies make this mistake...but if you've been here a while and do a same-day bump to a number of posts, you're going into time-out for a while. I just learned how to do it, too.

This here's your warning.

Rooskibar03

08-16-2017, 20:10

Here's a thought. If you've been offering your item for sale for months and bumping with regularity and no result then your item is not desirable or your price is out of line.

I'll bump once. Maybe twice. If it's not sold then it's probably not going to sell for a number I can live with.

TheGrey

08-16-2017, 20:32

There are times during the year when a flurry of sales are going to in the TP. It is easy to have one's post move to the next page and get 'lost', which is why a limit of one bump per day is permitted. You don't have to bump your posts, but bumping more than once per day is NOT advised, lest the Wrath of the Mods come down upon your heads.

Mazin

10-17-2017, 06:49

REPORT ALL FINISHED OR WITHDRAWN SALES!

Also the GD IS NOT A DAMN WANTED SECTION!

TheGrey

11-07-2017, 21:58

Alrighty, here's the next round.

I have just waded through the Private Party Firearms for Sale thread, and I lost count at the number of posts that I had to fix.

So, once more:

When you sell your item, click on the little triangle at the lower right side of the frame (hovering the mouse over it will reveal "report post") and send us a note saying that it has sold.

Do NOT change the title to say "sold". Do not change all the entries to say "sold". (Or "withdrawn" or "changed mind" or "keeping" or anything else.) This is not helpful, although the thought is appreciated. We need to do some admin things with the thread, and it's not something that non-Mods can do.

Let us know, and we'll take it from there.

If you've been here a while and you persist in marching to the beat of your own drummer (and I'm going to start keeping track in a file labelled "DAMMIT!",) we're going to have us a come-to-Jesus-Meeting.

OKAY?

MrPrena

11-07-2017, 22:01

I believe we can still do

"I wish I had a cash."
"Droooooool"
"Damn it! I bought a new one 2 days ago at LGS!!!"
"Let me sell my stuff and get back with you!"

[Beer]

TheGrey

11-07-2017, 22:07

Indeed you can!

TheGrey

11-08-2017, 17:08

Is the site keeping a data base of all sold items?

I don't think so- the main gist of my post is for sellers not to alter their "for sale" posts in an effort to show that their items are now gone. It doesn't help us and it often leaves a question as to if it was sold or withdrawn or traded. Mods can close the threads and Admins take care of archiving and so on, which Muggles cannot do. :)

theGinsue

12-09-2017, 11:37

This thread has essentially been about bumping threads and notifying the staff of a Trading Post thread that needs to be closed, but...
Lately we've been seeing more violations of a certain nature that drives me to provide a reminder to everyone using the Trading Post of the first 3 rules in the "Read and Ack" thread you've agreed to; specifically:

1. You must list in any ads for a firearm (or anything considered to be a firearm, e.g. a lower) that an FFL transfer is required. You are encouraged to offer up for suggestion an FFL that you are willing to use for the transfer, but this is not required and may be negotiated during the sale negotiations.

2. All magazines prohibited by HB13-1224 may not be listed on the site. This includes any detachable magazine with more than 15 rounds capacity, or for a shotgun any detachable magazine over 8 rounds capacity. It also includes any shotgun that uses tubular feeding devices that hold more than 28" of shotgun shells.

3. All extensions for magazines that can bring the capacity over the limits set in HB13-1224 when offered with a magazine that could be constructed to produce a capacity over the limit of HB13-1224 will also be disallowed from the trading post (this includes any form of a magazine "kit"/"repair kit"). Additionally, any extensions that would bring the capacity of all available magazines which fit that extension over the limits in HB13-1224 are disallowed from the trading post.

To ensure we remain in compliance with Colorado laws, and that everyone is aware that these laws will be followed, we insist on the FFL statement on every firearm listed for sale/trade unless said firearm is subject to the C&R exception provided under the law.

Additonally, our rules clearly state that NO MAG KITS are allowed to be offered through our site. We realize that many retail establishments in the state offer these kits but it is our belief that they violate the law and, as such, they are prohibited here. If you feel the need to provide these to someone in private, away from the site, so be it; but this site will not be a party to it - PERIOD!

Every member of this site is a big boy or girl and should be accountable for your actions. The Staff has been especially lenient in handling these two rules violations. The laws that these rules were made to comply with have been actively on the books for nearly 4 1/2 years and we've had the rules in place equally as long so ignorance and forgetfulness can no longer be an affirmative defense for violating these rules. Every violator claims to have read but has certainly agreed to these rules. In the future you can count yourself lucky if you violate these rules and only have your thread removed and your post in the "Read & Ack" rules thread removed. If I were you I'd count on a site time out as well.

It's funny that many of the same folks who claim the Staff enforces the rules unevenly and with bias are often the same ones claiming forgetfulness and asking for leniency when they violate the rules. The Staff takes no pleasure in being the heavy when it's time to enforce the rules of this site. To avoid getting on the wrong side of things I encourage everyone to routinely review the site rules and endeavor to follow the rules. This will help to ensure you and the Staff will have an enjoyable experience on the site.

Good day.

TheGrey

02-21-2018, 20:42

theGinsue

03-04-2018, 00:02

SOLD

ETA: See my explanation of this post below

TheGrey

03-04-2018, 00:10

Hi, folks.

Those of you that use the Trading Post must read and acknowledge the rules before you can post anything for sale, trade, or anything in the wanted section. Listed among the moderator duties is the task of making sure the posts comply with the current laws, as well as the rules of the site.

These rules are read and acknowledged by you in the Trading Post sticky.

I have spent a goodly portion of the morning going through the many, many listings in the Trading Post.

The good news is that I haven't noticed any posts in recent times that have flouted the magazine laws, lack of price/value, or information on FFLs. Good job, and thank you for that.

What I have noticed is that items that have been sold, withdrawn, or otherwise removed from sale, are not being reported.

Instead, you choose to write "sold" in the text of your ad, Or worse yet, you take the time to erase the entire thing, leaving a blank with the word "sold"- and it's been there for weeks.

Every month or so, we mods come and post something about this. Some people realize they've been remiss, others chime in (most unhelpfully, so DON'T do it) that we mods are too lax and keep doing this time after time, letting people get away with it. Many of the guilty parties use this forum as a sort of ArmsList where they can just sell their firearms and related items, and ignore everything else.

I wondered to myself why people have such a hard time with this rule, and have realized this: Either you don’t know how to report a post, or you’re just too lazy.

For those of you that genuinely do not know how to report a post, here are the steps:
Down at the bottom of the frame is a small triangle with an exclamation point in it. Upon the sale of your item, go to the initial post in your thread and click on the small triangle. A blank text box will appear. All you need to do is type “Sold, please close” or “withdrawn” or “changed my mind” and then you click on the “Submit” button. That’s all. We’ll take care of the rest.

For those of you too lazy to report it: Anyone that has a post count higher than 2 will be held accountable for knowing and understanding the rules that they read and acknowledged. If you can go to your post after an item has been sold, and change the text in your post, you can damn well click the report button.
IGNORANCE IS NO LONGER AN ACCEPTABLE EXCUSE.

If I have to keep doing this, there will be a minimum of a week’s ban, and I don’t care if you have 17 other items listed for sale in the TP at the time. If your actions drive me to ban you because you can’t be bothered to follow these very simple rules, I will go the extra effort to lock every one of your threads in the TP. We’re not a gun broker site, and I’m not your damn wife or mother, to have to clean up after you. The TP is a privilege, not a right. If you have sold something and not reported it, kindly do so now and do so in the future.

TheGrey

03-04-2018, 10:03

I'd like to thank those of you that have reported your "sold" items thus far. It's greatly appreciated.

For those of you that haven't done so, or for those that have items listed and you haven't checked them in a while- you may want to look at your posts. There are several threads that have people asking questions, and several threads where nothing has been done in weeks. I can't tell if those items are still for sale, or if it's been sold and just left hanging.

theGinsue

03-04-2018, 10:24

Now that we've got your attention...

Regarding the thread title and the first post, many of our members enjoy looking at sold/traded posts to gauge prices for their similar items. When you go into a thread hoping to read content and find that the member selfishly wiped out all of the content only to replace it with SOLD, it can be particularly annoying. So how about leaving the thread intact and simply using the Report Post option (or PM a member of the staff if you can't find the Report Post option) to let us know it can be closed. This way you're helping your fellow members while keeping the staff happy as well. This makes it a win all of the way around.

To add to what TheGrey said about inactive TP threads, you are reminded that Trading Post rule xvi says that threads inactive for 30 days can can/will be deleted. Additionally, TP rule xvii informs you that it is your responsibility to monitor your Trading Post thread. Failure to do so can/will result in removal of the thread and possible loss of TP privileges. Don't be "that guy"!

sellersm

07-09-2018, 16:42

This again. I've been noticing a lot of people modifying their original post to "Sold" or "Withdrawn" or whatever. Please don't do that. Just click on the small triangle with an exclamation point in it, and report the post with whatever this issue is.

Thank you.

May I make a suggestion? When you click on the 'report this post triangle icon', there's a text box and below that text box are these words: "Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts."

Is there anyway to change the text displayed, and add some text that gives the instructions you've mentioned in the quote above?

It's probably just me, but when I did this process for the first time, I was a bit confused because of the wording below the text box, stating that this is ONLY to be used to report spam, etc. etc...

Thanks for reading!

Mazin

07-09-2018, 18:03

That's Vbulletin wording and I dont think it can be changed but ill double check with the guys with the cool buttons and switches
Ultimately all a person has to do is put found/sold/traded/withdrawn.

theGinsue

07-09-2018, 20:17

May I make a suggestion? When you click on the 'report this post triangle icon', there's a text box and below that text box are these words: "Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts."

Is there anyway to change the text displayed, and add some text that gives the instructions you've mentioned in the quote above?

It's probably just me, but when I did this process for the first time, I was a bit confused because of the wording below the text box, stating that this is ONLY to be used to report spam, etc. etc...

Thanks for reading!

That's Vbulletin wording and I dont think it can be changed but ill double check with the guys with the cool buttons and switches
Ultimately all a person has to do is put found/sold/traded/withdrawn.

Well, it only took me 2 hours and TONS of Googling to figure out how to change it, but the text now says:

"Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts as well as any Trading Post thread requiring moderation."

sellersm

07-09-2018, 21:17

Thanks Ginsue! Sorry I can't give you back those 2 hours... I hope this will be helpful moving forward! Appreciate everything you all do for the site and its members!!

theGinsue

07-09-2018, 21:27

No worries brother; it's all a labor of love. And it's members like you that make it worth it.

I used the "Report Post" on my own thread above and appended the instructions for how I did it to save for later Staff use should it become needed again. I then went into my reported post in the mod section and added screen captures. I think, should we have to do something like this again, we'll be set for how to do it quickly next time.

It's funny that you brought up the content of the message. I noticed that about a week ago and didn't like that it was so limited. Of course, since at the time I thought I was the only one with issues with it, I wasn't motivated to figure out how to change it.

theGinsue

07-26-2018, 18:12

If you all want to keep deleting the content of your sold/withdrawn/traded/etc. Trading Post threads you need to be aware that I'm going to keep re-adding the content back (yeah, we can do that). Why waste your time and mine by deleting the content?

TheGrey

08-06-2018, 21:57

Alright. I'm going to try and be nice when saying this AGAIN, and I hope the offenders of this policy recognize themselves and STOP CHANGING YOUR ORIGINAL POST.

STOP IT, RIGHT NOW.

I don't give a damn if you have sold it, have withdrawn it, want to modify anything about it...JUST DON'T.

Before you edit, move your cursor to the small triangle with the exclamation point, located at the bottom of the post frame. Click it and report the post to the mods. In the space provided, type your explanation. It can be a single word: "sold", "withdrawn", "traded," and the like.

I understand Tapatalk doesn't provide the little triangle-report-icon; in that case, PM a mod and ask them to close the specific thread you're asking about. If you have more than one thread in the TP, please be specific which one you need closed.

Those of you primitive screwheads that continue to keep deleting your posts and putting 'sold' or 'withdrawn' instead of simply reporting them as we are asking are going to be sorry. Don't make me pull this thing over.

SideShow Bob

09-29-2018, 16:06

Thank you to the “Masked Moderator” for marking my “Wanted” thread as found. I spaced off notifying someone to do that.

Thank you again.

theGinsue

10-08-2018, 18:09

Looks like another bump of this thread is needed.

If you all want to keep deleting the content of your sold/withdrawn/traded/etc. Trading Post threads you need to be aware that I'm going to keep re-adding the content back (yeah, we can do that). Why waste your time and mine by deleting the content?

Yes, I personally go in and undelete the content from every Trading Post thread where the member deleted the content of their original post. If you don't want the information seen once the item(s) has sold/been traded/withdrawn, DON'T POST IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Leaving the content helps other members who are looking to sell/trade or purchase similar items to get an idea of what the market is for said items. By deleting the content you are doing a dis-service to fellow members.

I'm quickly nearing the point where repeat offenders of this will receive a 10 day suspension of their TP privileges (for starters). After all, we're first and foremost a discussion forum and community. If you don't want to show consideration to your fellow community members on your own, we will help you think of them the next time. The rest of the staff and I grow weary of having to constantly make these reminders while showing some kindness and not taking punitive action. Don't expect this to last much longer.

Mazin

11-19-2018, 09:56

So bumping this with a friendly reminder. You can only bump your ad once every 24 hours, and new or relevant info you need to include should be added to the original sales ad.

DO NOT KEEP ADDING "INFO" JUST TOO KEEP YOUR AD AT THE TOP.

This practice is disrespectful to not only the staff but every member that has current ads pending and follows the site rules.

Any member caught doing so will receive a warning, second time will have TP access removed for 90 days, third occurence member will lose TP access for 1 year.

theGinsue

12-16-2018, 11:40

While the man purpose of this site is a DISCUSSION FORUM, few will discount the value of the Trading Post (TP). Unfortunately, the TP is also a logistical nightmare for the staff due to the continuing number of rules and policy violations.

Over the past 9 months to a year the staff has gone out of our way to REPEATEDLY post direction around the site to aid our members in complying with these rules and policies. While we understand that everyone forgets things from time to time, this fails to explain those who repeatedly flaunt the rules/policies. For these members, the only thing that can explain their behavior is that they either don't care to follow the rules or they aren't interested in reading anything here and just want to hock their wares (i.e. TP Trolls).

Because administering the TP remains an endevour akin to herding cats, this is your one and only warning - anyone failing to read this thread/post will still be held accountable to it . ETA: Failure to read this notice will NOT be a positive defense.

TP Rules/Policy violations will be subject to a 30-day ban from the Trading Post. If the staff believes that it's a rare occurance for you to violate the rules and thinks it was a simple mistake you may be lucky enough to simply receive a warning - but don't count on it. If you receive a 30-day TP ban, all of your TP threads will be removed so as to ensure no one tries to discuss those threads while you have no access to them. If you continue to violate the rules/policies after a 30-day ban you can expect either a 6 month or permanent ban from the TP.

For those of you who remember Marlin, he wanted to completely remove the TP from the site. The rest of the site saw the value of a TP and we successfully petitioned to keep it. Value or not though, the TP is a never-ending pain in the ass for the staff to maintain. Every member of the staff has a life outside of this site and when we come here we'd like to be able to enjoy the site instead of spending our precious time cleaning up behind those who think only of themselves.

So, again, before you make your next post in the TP, ensure you know the rules and policies which have been repeatedly posted across the site and ensure you follow those instructions or expect to lose your access to the TP.

GINSUE

SA Friday

12-16-2018, 11:51

I know I don't post very often, and moderate even less, but I have a moment and would like to further clarify what Ginsue is trying to say. If you are the idiot that has been warned multiple times to not try to sell mags over 15 rounds in the TP and continue to post that shit, then you are going to get a time out. If you cannot fathom that you need to show your location in your profile to use the TP, then you are going to get a time out. If you don't have the literacy capability to read and understand you need to identify the FFL to do the transfer in your post, guess what... you get a fucking time out.

I know most of you don't see the traffic and why the Mods get bent over this stuff. Trust me, when some asshole posts mags for the 4th time after being repeatedly warned and explained... These guys are saints. I'd a banned his sorry ass.

Great-Kazoo

12-16-2018, 12:27

Finally.......... Thanks Mods.

Waiting for the How do i report my TP post, question.

Grant H.

12-16-2018, 14:07

Seems reasonable.

Thanks to the Mod's for continuing to herd the cats around here!

buffalobo

03-23-2020, 00:27

Trading Post PSA

As everybody is aware there was a fuss over an ammo sale ad posted RangerRon72. Another ammo sale ad was removed today and several references have been made in other threads.

Unfortunately Ron got caught in no mans land. He generally follows the Trading Post rules and doesn't cause issues on the board but rarely participates in the community. Same for the member of the ad removed today. The site exists for the community, not the business interests of those primarily here to take advantage of prescreened customers. Nothing against those folks only here to sell, as long as follow rules and don't cause trouble.

The Trading Post is not the "free market", it is a benefit of being a member here. Staff set the rules everyone follows them as a condition of membership.

If this were the free market you wouldn't like it, first you have to enter a one sided legal agreement that stipulates you have to pay the site a commission on each transaction, on top of an acct administration fee.

In the free market I would demand a salary and not be a volunteer, your fees/commission just went up

Where else do you get prescreened customers? Sure as hell not Armslist. Members here have complained about doing business there or Craigslist for years.

This is not the free market, it is a community club and the rules are to benefit the club and its members.

That's the trade off, like it or lump it. This place does not exist to provide you a profit. No reason you can't make a profit, even a good one, but if you are looking to profiteer, you will be disappointed.

New Rule - Don't offer a deal here that you would not offer to your priest, mother or best friend.

If you need further clarification then participate and become part of the community. We don't take advantage of our neighbors misfortune(we might kick his azz if he was bonehead), we look out for them.