View Full Version : Interesting tidbit on Rx drugs and this dangerous behavior
So Noveske Rifleworks posted this to their FB this morning...
Not sure about the facts here, I received this from a friend.
----John
Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)
Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)
Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.
Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”
Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
New York high school.
Missing from list…3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds….
What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21…… killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az
What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24….. killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado
What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or
What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
Roberts is the only one that I haven’t heard about being on drugs of some kind
Sorry it's so long... but it is interesting to see how often these prescription drugs were used by these nutcases... I heard on 850 the night of the shooting in CT that some doctor called in and was speaking about this subject. Perhaps we need to stop medicating our children so damn much? Has me kinda worried, I was prescribed ritalin when I was young- back in the days when they thought every kid had ADD... Yep, I was diagnosed with ADD... [russian roulette]
Think about this.
Many of us young adults now suffer from permanent problems that were the result of over prescription of antibiotics. As a result viruses have become much more powerful and grown resistant to many of the drugs available today. When we were young you went to the doctor and got put on a round of antibiotics. Today most doctors recommend homeopathic methods to treat illness because they are ultimately more affective at eliminating the problem than antibiotics are.
I believe we may be seeing the same issue today with mental illness treatments as we saw with physical illness treatments in the 70's and 80's. today you go to the doctor and say I feel like X and he gives you medication Y. Ultimately medication Y causes far more problems and what may be permanently lasting negative results and side effects. Fortunately it appears that doctors are now realizing this issue and will hopefully soon start to look for non medication treatments for mental woes.
The real question however remains. Is society prepared to accept that there is no quick fix or solution to their mental woes? Many don't want to accept the fact that anxiety and depression are naturally occurring emotions that everyone will experience at some point. For many it's much easier to go to a doctor and get a pill that's supposed to make them feel better or a pill they can give their children that will turn them into a zombie so they don't have to do any real parenting.
BREATHER
12-27-2012, 12:12
Many mental woes are plain bullshit. So called pros are making names up for alot of shit because they have to justify their degree and existance. ADD realty. Kid doesn't pay attention, slap the shit out of them. No ritalin just lay down the law to the little turds.
sellersm
12-27-2012, 12:13
These are well-known facts. Most psychotropic, and/or anti-depressant pharmaceuticals can cause some very dangerous side-effects, especially within the first few months of use! There are warnings all over the labels and most Dr's will reinforce this when prescribing, but who really listens and reads those things?
There are so many other ways of managing these issues that it's about time the big pharmas were held accountable and the sheeple didn't turn to these "quick, easy fixes". But why change my life when I can just "take a pill?"
BushMasterBoy
12-27-2012, 12:24
But the pharmaceutical companies make so MUCH MONEY selling these drugs! Almost every commercial on TV is an advert selling happy pills. Capitalism at its finest...
MuzzleFlash
01-10-2013, 12:56
Source: NaturalNews.com (http://www.naturalnews.com/038616_John_Noveske_mysterious_death_car_crash.htm l)
This is the last post John Noveske (the AR manufacturer) made on his Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Noveske-Rifleworks/181862575167497?ref=ts&fref=ts) before he was killed in a mysterious single car accident on 4 Jan 2013:
Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")
Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)
Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.
Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."
Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
New York high school.
Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....
What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az
What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado
What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or
What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
Roberts is the only one that I haven't heard about being on drugs of some kind.
BPTactical
01-10-2013, 13:10
Interesting that the last four are unknown.
I did hear yesterday in regards to Holmes preliminary hearing that he was not drug tested after his arrest.
Something stinks, badly.
lowbeyond
01-10-2013, 13:23
well that surely is interesting
two shoes
01-10-2013, 13:34
Holmes was seeing a psychiatrist.... The odds greatly favor meds of some kind.... and the look he had while being arraigned?
HBARleatherneck
01-10-2013, 13:37
repost
http://www.ar-15.co/threads/78151-Interesting-tidbit-on-Rx-drugs-and-this-dangerous-behavior?highlight=proza
added discussion here
http://www.ar-15.co/threads/79271-is-this-a-real-problem?highlight=drugs (http://www.ar-15.co/threads/78151-Interesting-tidbit-on-Rx-drugs-and-this-dangerous-behavior?highlight=prozac)
Lots of pro-gun guys are 'dying' mysteriously. Hmmmm. and Brietbart? And his coroner? And, probably perfectly legal.
Batteriesnare
01-10-2013, 14:31
Lots of pro-gun guys are 'dying' mysteriously. Hmmmm. and Brietbart? And his coroner? And, probably perfectly legal.
Who is John Galt?
On another note, what drugs you're on is private, priviliged information between you and your healthcare provider, and unless you've been ADJUDICATED mentally defective, you're not prohibited from posessing firearms.
streetglideok
01-10-2013, 14:33
My ex was on paxil. She was a class A nutjob, and I should have ditched her the second I found out she was on the P vitamin. It would not shock me that drug makers, the media, and certain others who stand to lose much if people learned there was a pattern to these shootings, were behind the mysterious deaths.
Lots of pro-gun guys are 'dying' mysteriously. Hmmmm. and Brietbart? And his coroner? And, probably perfectly legal.
Let's not also forget the manager of FPS Russia...
Everyone always rolls their eyes when I say conspiracy or cover up. Numbers don't lie.
Kraven251
01-10-2013, 15:59
Everyone always rolls their eyes when I say conspiracy or cover up. Numbers don't lie.
That is why we have statistics and politicians [BDay]
jerrymrc
01-10-2013, 18:07
I got rid of one and merged the other two. [Bang]
if you want to risk pneumonia to homeopathic fixes, have at it. i will rely on the thousands of published data that specific antibiotic reduce mortality. now for sinus infections, sure, antibiotics are way over prescribed. most of those are viral anyway and the antibiotics don't do anything. but any doctor recommending homeopathic fixes for known bacterial infections is inviting law suit and death.
i am as against psychotropic drugs as anyone. i work in boulder and about every teenager is on adderall, its ridiculous. when i was a kid i had a short attention span and was off the wall, but my parents were strict and kept me in line. a few years later i just out grew it. i don't think antidepressants are that great and are rarely necessary, but besides drawing the connection between these medications and murders and such, lets consider that these people were on these meds for a reason. they weren't exactly mentally normal. its pretty difficult to determine if meds cause this or if being crazy causes this. people are certainly more crazy now than 30 years ago, and EARLY medicating probably plays a role, but an adult or close to adult who happens to get put on an antidepressant and then murders someone? pretty tough to say thats the medication and not the person just being a loon.
Think about this.
Many of us young adults now suffer from permanent problems that were the result of over prescription of antibiotics. As a result viruses have become much more powerful and grown resistant to many of the drugs available today. When we were young you went to the doctor and got put on a round of antibiotics. Today most doctors recommend homeopathic methods to treat illness because they are ultimately more affective at eliminating the problem than antibiotics are.
I believe we may be seeing the same issue today with mental illness treatments as we saw with physical illness treatments in the 70's and 80's. today you go to the doctor and say I feel like X and he gives you medication Y. Ultimately medication Y causes far more problems and what may be permanently lasting negative results and side effects. Fortunately it appears that doctors are now realizing this issue and will hopefully soon start to look for non medication treatments for mental woes.
The real question however remains. Is society prepared to accept that there is no quick fix or solution to their mental woes? Many don't want to accept the fact that anxiety and depression are naturally occurring emotions that everyone will experience at some point. For many it's much easier to go to a doctor and get a pill that's supposed to make them feel better or a pill they can give their children that will turn them into a zombie so they don't have to do any real parenting.
Antidepressants are WAY overprescribed in America. It is downright criminal that so many schoolchildren . . . especially elementary school children . . . are being prescribed these meds for acting out in normal childlike behaviors. Many times the school recommends these meds to the parents because a child was disruptive, talked out of turn, or doesn't fit in with their peers. Even pre-schoolers and elderly nursing home residents are being prescribed meds to make them "easier to deal with." Traces of these meds have even been found in the tap water of NYC because they are excreted in urine and do not break down after the wastewater treatment process.
The kicker is, doctors do not fully understand how these meds work, and the medication and dosage typically needs to be altered several times on follow up visits to deal with side effects. It is also a well known fact that suddenly going cold turkey and stopping a set medication regimine often results in severe behavior issues, including rage and self destructive impulses.
In Europe and Scandinavia, doctors are appalled by how these medications are used to "treat" so many schoolchildren in the United States.
I got rid of one and merged the other two. [Bang]
I was really really tempted to start a 4th thread of a different title.. and include a link to the search function.. but I fear my jest would have angered the powers that be. [Coffee]
I got rid of one and merged the other two. [Bang]
You're a wonderful human being!
I was really really tempted to start a 4th thread of a different title.. and include a link to the search function.. but I fear my jest would have angered the powers that be. [Coffee]
I would have gotten a laugh... some may have gotten butthurt, and the mods probably would have chuckled at first.
BPTactical
01-10-2013, 23:16
Everyone always rolls their eyes when I say conspiracy or cover up. Numbers don't lie.
Far too many coincidences to be coincidence.
I was really really tempted to start a 4th thread of a different title.. and include a link to the search function.. but I fear my jest would have angered the powers that be. [Coffee]
I double dog dare ya. [Stooge]
Far too many coincidences to be coincidence.
What was it my old neighbor, the retired detective said "I can't afford to believe in coincidence."
68Charger
01-11-2013, 09:19
How would everyone here feel about expanding the "mental illness" and " illegal drug" clauses to include people prescribed psychotropic drugs, Accepting a prescription would include a home visit to remove any guns... with a 3-6 month waiting period after getting a "clean bill of health" Before they are returned?
I'm sure there would be objections that it would lead to stigma, and many not "getting the help they need"... (In many cases, these drugs a probably not "what they need" anyway)
While I think it may have an effect on these kinds of shootings, it could very easily be abused to violate someone's rights...
The conspiracy theorist in me says big pharma would oppose it for sure...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV0J5EsYKuw
If you want to see the whole documentary (2 hours): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3994KQdfuw
Byte Stryke
01-11-2013, 09:25
How would everyone here feel about expanding the "mental illness" and " illegal drug" clauses to include people prescribed psychotropic drugs, Accepting a prescription would include a home visit to remove any guns... with a 3-6 month waiting period after getting a "clean bill of health" Before they are returned?
I'm sure there would be objections that it would lead to stigma, and many not "getting the help they need"... (In many cases, these drugs a probably not "what they need" anyway)
While I think it may have an effect on these kinds of shootings, it could very easily be abused to violate someone's rights...
The conspiracy theorist in me says big pharma would oppose it for sure...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV0J5EsYKuw
Lest the anti's just start writing everyone a 'scrip just to get your guns
68Charger
01-11-2013, 09:33
Lest the anti's just start writing everyone a 'scrip just to get your guns
Better word choice, I'll edit the original
DavieD55
01-11-2013, 09:55
it could very easily be abused to violate someone's rights...
The conspiracy theorist in me says big pharma would oppose it for sure...
That is exactly what they're after. I wouldn't necessarily call it a conspiracy theory. They want to deny people of their rights through the mental health system. Their goal is to label everyone a nutjob just like the soviets did.
How would everyone here feel about expanding the "mental illness" and " illegal drug" clauses to include people prescribed psychotropic drugs, Accepting a prescription would include a home visit to remove any guns... with a 3-6 month waiting period after getting a "clean bill of health" Before they are returned?
I'm sure there would be objections that it would lead to stigma, and many not "getting the help they need"... (In many cases, these drugs a probably not "what they need" anyway)
While I think it may have an effect on these kinds of shootings, it could very easily be abused to violate someone's rights...
IMHO restricting firearms due to a prescription of a "psychotrophic" drug being issued is hilarious. One of the most commonly written psychotrophic drugs issued is Ambien for sleep aid. I don't think I honestly know of a household where someone be it a mom, dad, sister, brother, etc doesn't have someone with a script for ambien. Once they have a foothold there they'll move to the anti psychotics... Which already has a stigma associated with it. When in reality different drugs can serve different purposes. For example there are SEVERAL drugs that are meant at high doses to control multiple personality disorders, but at low doses can control things like anxiety and are issued often to control anxiety. We could also look at other drugs that are meant to control schritzophrenea in high doses but in VERY LOW doses only affect certain receptors so that drug became a great sleep aid. Don't even get me started on off label uses for drugs that have a stigma attached to them. Most drugs that were "developed" for something are actually used to treat something else. Cough VIAGRA originally developed for angina now marketed for boners and a lot of body builders use it for it's vascularity.
They would have EVERYONES firearms within a month.
Byte Stryke
01-11-2013, 10:27
IMHO restricting firearms due to a prescription of a "psychotrophic" drug being issued is hilarious. One of the most commonly written psychotropic drugs issued is Ambien for sleep aid. I don't think I honestly know of a household where someone be it a mom, dad, sister, brother, etc doesn't have someone with a script for ambien. Once they have a foothold there they'll move to the anti psychotics... Which already has a stigma associated with it. When in reality different drugs can serve different purposes. For example there are SEVERAL drugs that are meant at high doses to control multiple personality disorders, but at low doses can control things like anxiety and are issued often to control anxiety. We could also look at other drugs that are meant to control schizophrenia in high doses but in VERY LOW doses only affect certain receptors so that drug became a great sleep aid. Don't even get me started on off label uses for drugs that have a stigma attached to them. Most drugs that were "developed" for something are actually used to treat something else. Cough VIAGRA originally developed for angina now marketed for boners and a lot of body builders use it for it's vascularity.
Mine.
If its stronger than an Excedrin Migraine, you better have a bone sticking out.
I believe that we as a society have become so dependent on the instant gratification promised by psuedo-scientific pharmacies that we have cast ourselves into a chemical dependent state.
Then we wonder why our over medicated children kill themselves and others. We have lost our way as a society, as a people and we have lost our common sense. Everything is me, mine, Now, Immediate relief, instant.
I am not saying its all Pharma's fault, I don't want to wind up like john Noveske. I am saying that we managed to survive for thousands of years without Paxil, Zoloft, Ritalin and all of the other garbage
Following 2 years of sporadic employment, I moved to Georgia, a Job on the other side of the country, on that same day I lost my Father to Agent Orange complications. I could not be there when he was Interred. My Brother was Diagnosed with Hotchkins Lymphoma a few months later.
I mourned, I prayed, I Sought my strength from within as my Father taught me.
I didn't run to a pill.
I haven't killed anything more substantial than a sheet of paper or cardboard.
Return to the earth, she will provide. Seek moderation and balance in all things.
While the mental health issues need to be addressed be extremely skeptical of this. In tyrannies, such as soviet Russia the state's method to eliminate opposition is to diagnose them as being mentally ill. Then off to the rubber rooms never to be heard from again. Also remember the administration objected to having a court hearing to declare a veteran unable to possess a firearm; instead some bureaucrat will do it.
brokenscout
01-11-2013, 12:11
It will be a very bad day when they "try" and take away Vet's guns for no reason..[shithitsfan]
68Charger
01-11-2013, 12:44
IMHO restricting firearms due to a prescription of a "psychotrophic" drug being issued is hilarious. One of the most commonly written psychotrophic drugs issued is Ambien for sleep aid. I don't think I honestly know of a household where someone be it a mom, dad, sister, brother, etc doesn't have someone with a script for ambien. Once they have a foothold there they'll move to the anti psychotics... Which already has a stigma associated with it. When in reality different drugs can serve different purposes. For example there are SEVERAL drugs that are meant at high doses to control multiple personality disorders, but at low doses can control things like anxiety and are issued often to control anxiety. We could also look at other drugs that are meant to control schritzophrenea in high doses but in VERY LOW doses only affect certain receptors so that drug became a great sleep aid. Don't even get me started on off label uses for drugs that have a stigma attached to them. Most drugs that were "developed" for something are actually used to treat something else. Cough VIAGRA originally developed for angina now marketed for boners and a lot of body builders use it for it's vascularity.
They would have EVERYONES firearms within a month.
yeah, I'm going to call BS on that one- they won't have mine, none of those scripts in this house- perhaps if they carried some kind of consequences meant to protect yourselves and society, then people would take them more seriously. There are LOTS of people that don't buy into big Pharma, and don't run to the doctor for every issue... I like sex as a treatment for insomnia, for example. [Coffee]
Mine.
If its stronger than an Excedrin Migraine, you better have a bone sticking out.
I believe that we as a society have become so dependent on the instant gratification promised by psuedo-scientific pharmacies that we have cast ourselves into a chemical dependent state.
Then we wonder why our over medicated children kill themselves and others. We have lost our way as a society, as a people and we have lost our common sense. Everything is me, mine, Now, Immediate relief, instant.
I am not saying its all Pharma's fault, I don't want to wind up like john Noveske. I am saying that we managed to survive for thousands of years without Paxil, Zoloft, Ritalin and all of the other garbage
Following 2 years of sporadic employment, I moved to Georgia, a Job on the other side of the country, on that same day I lost my Father to Agent Orange complications. I could not be there when he was Interred. My Brother was Diagnosed with Hotchkins Lymphoma a few months later.
I mourned, I prayed, I Sought my strength from within as my Father taught me.
I didn't run to a pill.
I haven't killed anything more substantial than a sheet of paper or cardboard.
Return to the earth, she will provide. Seek moderation and balance in all things.
Very well put- if they want to give you a 'script for a psychotropic, then ask a simple question- "what test have you done to determine this will treat the problem?" and if that fails, how about "what test will you do to determine whether it's working correctly, yet the other EFFECTS (some call them side effects) are under control?"
They simply don't have tests for these drugs in either case above, they don't have a scientific method to determine how well they're working, and what else they're doing.
While the mental health issues need to be addressed be extremely skeptical of this. In tyrannies, such as soviet Russia the state's method to eliminate opposition is to diagnose them as being mentally ill. Then off to the rubber rooms never to be heard from again. Also remember the administration objected to having a court hearing to declare a veteran unable to possess a firearm; instead some bureaucrat will do it.
Agreed, which is why I'm on the fence about this suggestion- I think it very well could curb some violent events (or at least the violent murders would be committed with other objects they have easy access to) The problem to me seems to be the whole psychiatric system doesn't have accountability or morals to police themselves- so it's time to police them somehow.
It will be a very bad day when they "try" and take away Vet's guns for no reason..[shithitsfan]
Why limit this to veterinarians? [LOL]
Seriously, there are plenty of citizens that will not go quietly into the good night.
(I do see that you were using the context of CO hugh... that has already happened on an individual basis)
While we all appreciate your service, further division isn't what we need... [Beer]
I know there is a large "anti big pharma" movement and I know there are certainly side effects to certain drugs that I think shouldn't have been approved due to the side effects. But the reality is... Drugs are good. The life expectancy in the 60's was what 70's? Now it's in the 90's? ish?
68Charger
01-11-2013, 13:38
I know there is a large "anti big pharma" movement and I know there are certainly side effects to certain drugs that I think shouldn't have been approved due to the side effects. But the reality is... Drugs are good. The life expectancy in the 60's was what 70's? Now it's in the 90's? ish?
SOME drugs are good- some are dangerous...some are just re-cycled (renamed) after their patents expire... just watching TV, and besides the prolific drug commercials is the lawyers telling you that you may have a case to sue after side effects from drugs.
I'd like a source that states ANY lengthened life from Psychotropic drugs... I don't generalize, there are Staten drugs, for example that will lower cholesterol- but there are TESTS that can be done before and after to OBSERVE the effects directly! That is why I provided the litmus test to warn of drug danger- for me, no test, no 'script.
Watch the video (not the trailer), and note that the sources they are using are Psychiatrists, former Drug sales reps, etc... people that were IN the industry!
When dealing with the brain you just can't predict what someone might do. Say someone is having suicidal thoughts? There is a chance that person could actually commit suicide. There is also a chance that if a person is put on something that has shown to suppress those suicidal thoughts might make them not commit suicide. There is also the chance that what worked on one person may not suppress the thoughts but amplify them.
(I'm not a doctor or a pharmacist) But just off the top of my head there is gabapentin which is used to control seizures (among other uses)... Since you can have a stroke while you have a seizure surely one could argue that it possibly lengthened the life of a person by preventing a stroke. (Yes I realize that a stroke may not kill you, but it can, and it can also turn you into a vegetable for the rest of your life) However, as it helps control seizures you're not going to have that data point because well the seizure never happened.
There's also disulfiram which is used for alcoholics. One could argue by stopping an alcoholic from ruining their life and liver that they have a better chance at living a longer life. However, again that data point doesn't exist so there is no data.
How come all these mental defectives (derogatory term used to illustrate a point) aren't capable to possess a firearm yet nothing else is off limits to include their 1st amendment right (comparing it to rights), their ability to procreate, their ability to vote (and other things that should require demonstrated sound mind) and even legally operating a motor vehicle on public roadways? Seems to me with all this crazy going around we're going to have to start to restrict most freedoms to keep us all 'safe'. Or, and I know this is a foreign idea to most these days, what if we just not focus so much on how to protect everyone from themselves and everyone else and focus on doing what is necessary and legal to protect ourselves from these people who would do us harm, either intentionally or otherwise? When I drive I always watch everyone around me and assume everyone is drunk, sleeping, texting, making an omlette or whatever. This has kept me accident-free even though I exercise civil disobedience to traffic laws I feel are silly on a daily basis. I just don't subscribe to the idea that more restrictions and complications make the world a safer place for all those inhabiting it. If a family is dumb enough to leave guns out around children, those untrained or those otherwise incapable of understanding then they will be visited by the tragedy fairy and their genes will be kept from further contaminating the gene pool. Being alive is dangerous. Smart people tend to do everything within their power to minimize those dangers. Stupid people expect others to do it for them.
Less laws. More freedom.
Something unrelated that struck me as being somewhat familiar from a statistical standpoint that's in the news right now: Did you know that the suicide rate for retired professional football players going back several decades is LOWER than the national average among adults in America? You don't hear that too much though do you? We just hear how violent the sport is from the media and how it needs to be nerfed. Whatever. Anything to make a story. Don't give away all of our liberties to save a couple dozen people a year or life won't even be worth living.
How come all these mental defectives (derogatory term used to illustrate a point) aren't capable to possess a firearm yet nothing else is off limits to include their 1st amendment right (comparing it to rights), their ability to procreate, their ability to vote (and other things that should require demonstrated sound mind) and even legally operating a motor vehicle on public roadways? Seems to me with all this crazy going around we're going to have to start to restrict most freedoms to keep us all 'safe'. Or, and I know this is a foreign idea to most these days, what if we just not focus so much on how to protect everyone from themselves and everyone else and focus on doing what is necessary and legal to protect ourselves from these people who would do us harm, either intentionally or otherwise? When I drive I always watch everyone around me and assume everyone is drunk, sleeping, texting, making an omlette or whatever. This has kept me accident-free even though I exercise civil disobedience to traffic laws I feel are silly on a daily basis. I just don't subscribe to the idea that more restrictions and complications make the world a safer place for all those inhabiting it. If a family is dumb enough to leave guns out around children, those untrained or those otherwise incapable of understanding then they will be visited by the tragedy fairy and their genes will be kept from further contaminating the gene pool. Being alive is dangerous. Smart people tend to do everything within their power to minimize those dangers. Stupid people expect others to do it for them.
Common sense isn't very common anymore, but it's okay because Government will tell us all what to think, say, and do.
It will be a very bad day when they "try" and take away Vet's guns for ANY reason..[shithitsfan]
Edited for accuracy.
Common sense isn't very common anymore, but it's okay because Government will tell us all what to think, say, and do.
Bingo.
When I drive I always watch everyone around me and assume everyone is drunk, sleeping, texting, making an omlette or whatever.
Less laws. More freedom.
Sorry, I had to quote this, that is awesome! That's what we call "Defensive driving" and I was always taught from day one that you must always assume everyone else hasn't the slightest clue as to what the hell they're doing. Same can pretty much be applied to everyday life... You can safely assume that everyone else on the sidewalk with you is batshit crazy, armed, and liable to snap at any moment. You don't know, the world is a dangerous place. Since we can't put a cop ever 25ft, we have to put that protection in the hands of the common person. But like you said Jer, less laws more freedom, that's the answer, too bad we have either ignorant or just downright evil people in office that want more power and less freedom for us.
Sorry, I had to quote this, that is awesome! That's what we call "Defensive driving" and I was always taught from day one that you must always assume everyone else hasn't the slightest clue as to what the hell they're doing. Same can pretty much be applied to everyday life... You can safely assume that everyone else on the sidewalk with you is batshit crazy, armed, and liable to snap at any moment. You don't know, the world is a dangerous place. Since we can't put a cop ever 25ft, we have to put that protection in the hands of the common person. But like you said Jer, less laws more freedom, that's the answer, too bad we have either ignorant or just downright evil people in office that want more power and less freedom for us.
Extend the olive branch of kindness to everyone you meet while secretly having a plan to kill them should the need arise.
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