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SuperiorDG
12-28-2012, 17:31
10 year and $250,000 seems lite to me.

WEBSTER, N.Y.—The neighbor of a convicted felon who ambushed firefighters on Christmas Eve, killing two, bought the guns for him and lied to the seller, knowing that he wasn't allowed to have them, authorities said Friday. William Spengler had picked out the semiautomatic rifle and shotgun used in the ambush and went to the sporting goods store with the neighbor when she bought them for him, U.S. Attorney William Hochul said.
The neighbor, Dawn Nguyen of Rochester, was arrested Friday. She faces a federal charge of knowingly making a false statement for signing a form indicating she would be the legal owner of the guns, Hochul said. She also was charged with a state count of filing a falsified business record, State Police Senior Investigator James Newell said.
Shortly before her arrest, Nguyen told The Associated Press that she didn't want to talk about Spengler. A number listed in the name of her lawyer, David Palmiere, was disconnected.
The charges stem from the purchase of an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle and a 12-gauge shotgun that Spengler had with him Monday when firefighters Michael Chiapperini and Tomasz Kaczowka were gunned down. Three other people were wounded before the 62-year-old Spengler killed himself. He also had a .38-caliber revolver, but Nguyen is not connected to that gun, Newell said.
Police used the serial numbers on the rifle and shotgun, which were purchased on June 6, 2010, to trace them to Nguyen, Hochul said.
"She told the seller of these guns, Gander Mountain in Henrietta, N.Y., that she was to be the true owner and buyer of the guns instead of William Spengler," he said. "It is absolutely against federal law to provide any materially false information related to the acquisition of firearms."
"It is sometimes referred to acting as a straw purchaser and that is exactly what today's complaint alleges," he said.
The federal charges carry a maximum penalty of ten years imprisonment, a fine of $250,000 or both.

During an interview late on Christmas Eve, Nguyen told police she had bought the guns for personal protection and that they were stolen from her vehicle, though she never reported the guns stolen.
The day after the shootings, Nguyen texted an off-duty Monroe County Sheriff's deputy with references to the killings. She later called the deputy and admitted she bought the guns for Spengler, police said.
That information was consistent with a suicide note found near Spengler's body after he killed himself.
Nguyen and her mother, Dawn Welsher, lived next door to Spengler in 2008. On Wednesday and again on Friday, she answered her cellphone and said she didn't want to discuss Spengler. Her brother, Steven Nguyen, told the Democrat and Chronicle newspaper of Rochester that Spengler stole the guns from Dawn Nguyen.

Spengler set a car on fire and touched off an inferno in his Webster home on a strip of land along the Lake Ontario shore, took up a sniper's position and opened fire on the first firefighters to arrive at about 5:30 a.m. on Christmas Eve, authorities said. He wounded two other firefighters and an off-duty police officer who was on his way to work.
A Webster police officer who had accompanied the firefighters shot back at Spengler with a rifle in a brief exchange of gunfire before the gunman killed himself.
Spengler spent 17 years in prison for killing his grandmother in 1980. He had been released from parole in 2006 on the manslaughter conviction, and authorities said they had had no encounters with him since.
Investigators still haven't released the identity of remains found in Spengler's burned house. They have said they believe the remains are those of his 67-year-old sister, Cheryl Spengler, who also lived in the house near Rochester and has been unaccounted for since the killings. The Spengler siblings had lived in the home with their mother, Arline Spengler, who died in October. In all, seven houses were destroyed by the flames.
Investigators found a rambling, typed letter laying out Spengler's intention to destroy his neighborhood and "do what I like doing best, killing people."

Read more: NY woman charged in connection with slaying of 2 - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22275121/ny-woman-arrested-connection-slaying-2#ixzz2GOONi1AF) http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22275121/ny-woman-arrested-connection-slaying-2#ixzz2GOONi1AF
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Mountain Man
12-28-2012, 17:41
This is exactly why she needs to spend 5 years or so in prison reflecting on why she bought a prohibited person a weapon. It also shows a glaring failure simply by the fact that this dude was out of prison to procure weapons and kill more people.

TFOGGER
12-28-2012, 17:52
How about "Accessory to First Degree Murder, 2 counts. Accessory to Attempted First Degree Murder, 4 counts"?

SideShow Bob
12-28-2012, 18:02
How about "Accessory to First Degree Murder, 2 counts. Accessory to Attempted First Degree Murder, 4 counts"?

^^THIS !^^ Along with the charges mentioned in the article.

brokenscout
12-28-2012, 18:30
How many people on this forum have unknowingly sold to a prohibited person in a ftf sale?

Byte Stryke
12-28-2012, 18:30
I would go with and added "Conspiracy to commit"

Byte Stryke
12-28-2012, 18:31
How many people on this forum have unknowingly sold to a prohibited person in a ftf sale?

if we did so unknowingly, how would we know?

and yes I always do the obligatory question

brokenscout
12-28-2012, 18:38
Just saying could they try and trace it back to or could you be liable
if we did so unknowingly, how would we know?

and yes I always do the obligatory question

BPTactical
12-28-2012, 19:43
Just saying could they try and trace it back to or could you be liable

This is why a BOS with a clause that they do not meet any "Prohibited Person" that they sign and date is valuable.

brokenscout
12-28-2012, 19:48
I think i'm going to start, I don't think we will be doing ftf transactions much longer
This is why a BOS with a clause that they do not meet any "Prohibited Person" that they sign and date is valuable.

th3w01f
12-28-2012, 19:49
How many people on this forum have unknowingly sold to a prohibited person in a ftf sale?

I think there's a huge difference between the two. In your example it would be the same as charging the dealer with the crime because the straw purchaser lied on the form. That being said I think it's a very bad idea to sell FTF without at least verifying state residency.

brokenscout
12-28-2012, 19:54
Maybe, but I think ftf sales are going away

th3w01f
12-28-2012, 19:57
Maybe, but I think ftf sales are going away

Only for the law abiding. I do agree that is a low hanging fruit for the anti-gun crowd.

hatidua
12-28-2012, 20:03
Only for the law abiding.

True that. Getting a firearm, of any kind or capacity, regardless of what laws are passed, will be perfectly easy ten years from now for any criminal with the money.

brokenscout
12-28-2012, 20:05
I see that being a " compromise "
Only for the law abiding. I do agree that is a low hanging fruit for the anti-gun crowd.

th3w01f
12-28-2012, 20:09
I see that being a " compromise "

Agreed; I just had that argument with my father-in-law about a hour ago. I told him I'll be happy to support a background check for every FTF sale if he and all his friends submit to a breathalyzer every time they drive.

sabot_round
12-28-2012, 20:25
10 year and $250,000 seems lite to me.

WEBSTER, N.Y.—The neighbor of a convicted felon who ambushed firefighters on Christmas Eve, killing two, bought the guns for him and lied to the seller, knowing that he wasn't allowed to have them, authorities said Friday. William Spengler had picked out the semiautomatic rifle and shotgun used in the ambush and went to the sporting goods store with the neighbor when she bought them for him, U.S. Attorney William Hochul said.
The neighbor, Dawn Nguyen of Rochester, was arrested Friday. She faces a federal charge of knowingly making a false statement for signing a form indicating she would be the legal owner of the guns, Hochul said. She also was charged with a state count of filing a falsified business record, State Police Senior Investigator James Newell said.
Shortly before her arrest, Nguyen told The Associated Press that she didn't want to talk about Spengler. A number listed in the name of her lawyer, David Palmiere, was disconnected.
The charges stem from the purchase of an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle and a 12-gauge shotgun that Spengler had with him Monday when firefighters Michael Chiapperini and Tomasz Kaczowka were gunned down. Three other people were wounded before the 62-year-old Spengler killed himself. He also had a .38-caliber revolver, but Nguyen is not connected to that gun, Newell said.
Police used the serial numbers on the rifle and shotgun, which were purchased on June 6, 2010, to trace them to Nguyen, Hochul said.
"She told the seller of these guns, Gander Mountain in Henrietta, N.Y., that she was to be the true owner and buyer of the guns instead of William Spengler," he said. "It is absolutely against federal law to provide any materially false information related to the acquisition of firearms."
"It is sometimes referred to acting as a straw purchaser and that is exactly what today's complaint alleges," he said.
The federal charges carry a maximum penalty of ten years imprisonment, a fine of $250,000 or both.

During an interview late on Christmas Eve, Nguyen told police she had bought the guns for personal protection and that they were stolen from her vehicle, though she never reported the guns stolen.
The day after the shootings, Nguyen texted an off-duty Monroe County Sheriff's deputy with references to the killings. She later called the deputy and admitted she bought the guns for Spengler, police said.
That information was consistent with a suicide note found near Spengler's body after he killed himself.
Nguyen and her mother, Dawn Welsher, lived next door to Spengler in 2008. On Wednesday and again on Friday, she answered her cellphone and said she didn't want to discuss Spengler. Her brother, Steven Nguyen, told the Democrat and Chronicle newspaper of Rochester that Spengler stole the guns from Dawn Nguyen.

Spengler set a car on fire and touched off an inferno in his Webster home on a strip of land along the Lake Ontario shore, took up a sniper's position and opened fire on the first firefighters to arrive at about 5:30 a.m. on Christmas Eve, authorities said. He wounded two other firefighters and an off-duty police officer who was on his way to work.
A Webster police officer who had accompanied the firefighters shot back at Spengler with a rifle in a brief exchange of gunfire before the gunman killed himself.
Spengler spent 17 years in prison for killing his grandmother in 1980. He had been released from parole in 2006 on the manslaughter conviction, and authorities said they had had no encounters with him since.
Investigators still haven't released the identity of remains found in Spengler's burned house. They have said they believe the remains are those of his 67-year-old sister, Cheryl Spengler, who also lived in the house near Rochester and has been unaccounted for since the killings. The Spengler siblings had lived in the home with their mother, Arline Spengler, who died in October. In all, seven houses were destroyed by the flames.
Investigators found a rambling, typed letter laying out Spengler's intention to destroy his neighborhood and "do what I like doing best, killing people."

Read more: NY woman charged in connection with slaying of 2 - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22275121/ny-woman-arrested-connection-slaying-2#ixzz2GOONi1AF) http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22275121/ny-woman-arrested-connection-slaying-2#ixzz2GOONi1AF
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

^^^^^THIS^^^^^ story just prove that guns are not the culprit and should not be banned. We should ban stupid people and re-instate the death penalty in some states if not all.

68Charger
12-28-2012, 20:27
Maybe, but I think ftf sales are going away


Only for the law abiding. I do agree that is a low hanging fruit for the anti-gun crowd.

This is the big rub- talking with someone I know who's hung out with the wrong crowd, and even done some jail time (not prison, but knows some who have)
he said "the first thing you want to do when you get out is get a piece... so you find someone willing to sell you one under the table"

do you think these guys are even going to TRY and do it thru legal channels? they don't now, they won't if it's more specifically banned... if they're illegal to buy, they're ALREADY BREAKING THE LAW!!!
so what is just one more offence: something they won't pay any attention to.

Those kinds of sales will never be regulated, and less than .1% of them will probably ever be prosecuted.
See the funny pictures thread, I think I found a new sig... "the idiots who say it's physically impossible to find 15 million Illegal aliens are the same idiots that think they are going to find and confiscate 300 million guns"


How many people on this forum have unknowingly sold to a prohibited person in a ftf sale?

I think I've only sold 2 or 3 guns in my life, I just keep having to buy to replace the ones lost in boating accidents.

Kraven251
12-28-2012, 20:31
So yeah...10 years, this is what is wrong. Him being out of prison after he beat someone to death with a hammer, is what is wrong.