LnL AP owner question...

[ChadAmberg]

So I've got a month old LNL AP that's been pretty good so far. I had a bad powder measure that came with it which was replaced, but I fear I have to call support again, but before I do I wanted to ask folks on here.

What I'm getting after a couple weeks is the shell plate turning on the downstroke of the piston doesn't index far enough at first. It won't finish indexing until you're pushing forward to seat the primer, which doesn't work since the shell isn't far enough to seat the primer. So each round I have to either move the shellplate manually or "jiggle it". The shell plate then tends to jump into the detents, which when reloading 9mm means I've got a lot of spilled powder all over the place.

As far as I can tell, I'm now a master pawl adjuster but it doesn't work. I've even swapped the two pawls I have just in case one was a bit out of spec but that's not it either.

What I have noticed when trying to figure out what's wrong, is that if I hold the shell plate steady, and then fiddle with the index star at the bottom of the piston, there's just over an 1/8" of play in it, which coincidentally is the same amount the index jump is.

Can anyone check there press and see how much play they have?

Thanks folks...

[SideShow Bob]

I never measure the play in my AP, but had a similar problem. You said that you had a bad powder measure, my problem was due to powder contamination under the shell plate and down the ram ( caused by running out of primers and charging a couple of cases before noticing) which turned into a gummy substance (from break down of the powder ?) I disassembled, cleaned, relubed and reassembled from the shell plate down to the prowls and "star".
Afterwards this problem went away. Guess I did something right.

[ChadAmberg]

Thanks for the info. I haven't spilled any powder at all until after this started happening, with that powder measure being f'd up, it had a big dent in the side, then was put into the rotor at the factory. I had to crank like hell on it to get it removed, once I did and saw the damage, it went back to the factory for replacement.

That's the thing, the play in it, it feels loose, not gummed up, though that's a great suggestion. I'd actually consider taking it completely apart, just don't want to get into it if support says "send it in." It never bound up on me at all at any time to make me think I overpowered the thing. That's why I was hoping to find if someone can see if there is any play between a shellplate and the star. I don't see any of the play in between the notch on the drive and the shellplate, it feels like its down in the piston somewhere.

[SideShow Bob]

Went downstairs and checked my press, there is the tiniest bit of play, I would say 1/32 - 1/8 inch if that.
Did you get the right shell plate ? I think the 2009 and up units need to use the "improved" shell plate, and the older models need the original shell plate.
Check the Hornady web site for the serial # separation for which plate you need to be using.

SSB.

[ChadAmberg]

Yup, got the right shell plate(s)... This happens with 3 different shell plates, all are the right one.

Yeah, this is a puzzler, I'm going to have to buck up and call in to see what Hornady says. Thanks!!

[SideShow Bob]

Keep us updated as to what Horandy says / does about your problem.

[Not_A_Llama]

So I just went to check my press. I also have ~1/8" of tangential play in my shellplate. The same angular amount of play exists between the keyed drive hub and the "star", so the problem isn't between the keyed hub and the shellplate. It's intrinsic to the mechanism.

Here's why I don't think it matters, though: I've had the problem you're describing. Thing is, when the pawls are maximally adjusted, they are capable of pushing the shellplate ball *past* the detent. I traced my periodic problem to poor handle operating technique. Take full and smooth strokes every time, and problems go away, in my experience.

Incidentally, your pawl adjustment should be such that the ball perfectly falls into the detent at the end of a stroke. The clicking noises should merge into one. To assist in the adjustment process, I like to get the ball perfectly in the detent at some station, then make a marking, witnessing perfect detent engagement between shellplate and subplate. Add a little "drag" to the shellplate (push gently backwards on the plate) as you're operating the handle, and you can visually confirm if the shellplate is stopping before the detent engages. That's the jump that spills powder.

[SideShow Bob]

Here is a good site for information, tips and tricks. Click on the Hornady tab on the upper left of the home page.
http://ultimatereloader.com/

[ChadAmberg]

Hmm.. I was hoping that play would be the culprit since that's OK, let me run by you folks what I'm doing for the adjustment.

For all these changes, I count the end of the stroke to be right where the primer seat starts to move upwards. And a shellplate is installed and tightened just enough.

I screw the pawls all the way down. Then I back them both out 1 1/2 turns which is what Hornady recommends. On the upstroke of the piston, this isn't enough, so I adjust the right pawl out small increments until it get it to where the amount of index is correct. But it still jumps into the detent that last 1/8" rather than smoothly moves into it. If I adjust it out anymore, I then see where it moves, then jumps into position, then continues to move a bit farther, so I reduce it back to no overtravel.

Now for the downstroke of the piston. Same thing, at 1 1/2 turns, it's just a little short so I start adjusting it out, not even a 1/16th of a turn at a time. When I raise the handle, I never let it go past where the primer seat starts to move because that cannot happen or else it binds when I have brass in and the primer is raising before the brass is in position. I keep adjusting it out and it keeps getting a little closer but not close enough, up until the point where I have adjusted out the pawl so far that it now binds the motion. I can get it to adjust far enough so that it indexes into position, though still with a jump, only if I am starting to push forward to seat the primer which isn't good, as that binds when I have primers and brass in.

Llama, I'm going to try your marking idea and see if I can figure anything else about it. It's just a little frustrating because this was working fine, but after about 500 rounds started to get worse.

[ChadAmberg]

OK, I went down and readjusted everything, and was able to get "closer." It's still not correct though. The jump is still there on both up and down stroke. Somehow it's getting close to the detent hole and then jumping in. By covering the detent holes with a piece of paper cut to size, I was able to do my pawl adjustment better. On the downstroke it still doesn't want to be fully in place by the time the primer plate starts to rise.
I read on another forum a member had cut out a adhesive felt circle to correct looseness. I tried that with some folded up fabric softener sheets, and the jump disappears to where I could reload ammo without too much hassle.
Why does it happen in the first place though? One thing I notice that even tightened down there is still vertical play in the shellplates. Can either of you two extremely helpful gentlemen confirm if this is normal? Even just grabbing the screw and pulling up and down. It's hard to tell for sure, but by pushing down in the screw head while moving up and down the jump is lessened.

[Hoser]

Call this number, they can help.

800-223-4570

[ChadAmberg]

Call this number, they can help.

800-223-4570

[Coffee]
Nice!

[Hoser]

Nice!

Thought you might like that.

Sorry. Could not resist.

[Tim K]

Call this number, they can help.

800-223-4570

Let me guess, Dillon?

[ChadAmberg]

Let me guess, Dillon?

Oh yeah... surprised it took that long!

[Not_A_Llama]

OK, I went down and readjusted everything, and was able to get "closer." It's still not correct though. The jump is still there on both up and down stroke. Somehow it's getting close to the detent hole and then jumping in. By covering the detent holes with a piece of paper cut to size, I was able to do my pawl adjustment better. On the downstroke it still doesn't want to be fully in place by the time the primer plate starts to rise.
I read on another forum a member had cut out a adhesive felt circle to correct looseness. I tried that with some folded up fabric softener sheets, and the jump disappears to where I could reload ammo without too much hassle.
Why does it happen in the first place though? One thing I notice that even tightened down there is still vertical play in the shellplates. Can either of you two extremely helpful gentlemen confirm if this is normal? Even just grabbing the screw and pulling up and down. It's hard to tell for sure, but by pushing down in the screw head while moving up and down the jump is lessened.

So, a couple observations tonight as I look at my press.

On my press, and many other makes (inclusive of the beloved Blue), the motion does have some abruptness, and it will spill some powder if simply operated freely. I counteract this by capping the casing with a bullet right after powder is dispensed.

As for looseness in the shellplate, I recall having this issue, as well. My solution is a split washer on the shellplate bolt, which sits atop the shellplate, and applies additional pressure downwards. It also assures that the screw will not back out. There is no appreciable play in my plate.

[ChadAmberg]

So, a couple observations tonight as I look at my press.

On my press, and many other makes (inclusive of the beloved Blue), the motion does have some abruptness, and it will spill some powder if simply operated freely. I counteract this by capping the casing with a bullet right after powder is dispensed.

As for looseness in the shellplate, I recall having this issue, as well. My solution is a split washer on the shellplate bolt, which sits atop the shellplate, and applies additional pressure downwards. It also assures that the screw will not back out. There is no appreciable play in my plate.

As I'm fairly new to reloading, I'm trying to make good use of my powder cop die which has already saved me once so far from having to pull a bullet. I'm going to see what I can do between a more permanent felt ring and also what you just described. Between the two I should be in good shape.