View Full Version : 85 year old arrested in the middle of the night
I haven't seen a thread about this yet. I apologize if I missed it. It's no wonder they're trying to take our guns away when the police are doing this kind of crap.
http://kdvr.com/2013/01/04/community-group-demands-answers-from-mayor-about-elderly-mans-arrest/
Kraven251
01-04-2013, 15:21
So they had a warrant for his arrest, I am also curious what judge signed it.
I haven't seen a thread about this yet. I apologize if I missed it. It's no wonder they're trying to take our guns away when the police are doing this kind of crap.
http://kdvr.com/2013/01/04/community-group-demands-answers-from-mayor-about-elderly-mans-arrest/
When the police are doing this? Maybe poor judgement on timing to serve the warrant, but other than that even if the person hit wasn't a cop the guy didn't need to strike the off-duty LEO with a freaking CANE! I may not 100% agree with DPD's execution of serving a warrant, but I do agree that this elderly fellow does deserve to be arrested for felony assault.
HBARleatherneck
01-04-2013, 15:40
serving warrants after dark is stupid. Unless it is extremely important to pick the individual up. These should be done during daylight hours. For the publics safety, as well as the safety of the officers.
When the police are doing this? Maybe poor judgement on timing to serve the warrant, but other than that even if the person hit wasn't a cop the guy didn't need to strike the off-duty LEO with a freaking CANE! I may not 100% agree with DPD's execution of serving a warrant, but I do agree that this elderly fellow does deserve to be arrested for felony assault.
FELONY assault? Deadly weapon? No.
I agree that you shouldn't hit anyone with a cane, but this should be billed as a misdemeanor.
well i hope they gave that old fart the beating of his life . we need to put a stop to the elderly thinking that they can just use a cane all willy nilly . my heart goes out to that poor officer that was brutally attacked buy that viscous thug . i bet he is part of the aarp gang i keep hearing about on the boob tube . if we dont put an end to cane's , walkers and hoverrounds then our police will never be safe from these elderly hoodlums and ruffians ! [soap][rant-off][soap]
bellavite1
01-04-2013, 15:47
And what the fuck does MLK have to do with this???
“It’s tragic that on the eve on the 50th anniversary of Martin Luther King’s letter from a Birmingham jail that an elderly 85 year old man is sitting in jail on $50,000 bond and charged with a felony based on a handicapped sticker.” said Brother Jeff Fard, a longtime community leader and Director at Brother Jeff’s Cultural Center."
Playing the race card AGAIN???[Bang]
Kraven251
01-04-2013, 15:50
Where the mistake was made...which is on the officer based on what was stated about the events.
1. He reached into the vehicle without permission
2. He grabbed the man
Serving the warrant at midnight for an elderly man, seems at the very least vindictive. We all know in this community perception of the facts often carries more sway than the facts.
When the police are doing this? Maybe poor judgement on timing to serve the warrant, but other than that even if the person hit wasn't a cop the guy didn't need to strike the off-duty LEO with a freaking CANE! I may not 100% agree with DPD's execution of serving a warrant, but I do agree that this elderly fellow does deserve to be arrested for felony assault.
Sorry, I disagree. No reason for an off- duty cop to bully an old man over a damn handicap space and expired placard. He could have handled it more professionally. Don't start none, won't be none.
HBARleatherneck
01-04-2013, 15:54
delete
Caithford
01-04-2013, 15:55
When the police are doing this? Maybe poor judgement on timing to serve the warrant, but other than that even if the person hit wasn't a cop the guy didn't need to strike the off-duty LEO with a freaking CANE! I may not 100% agree with DPD's execution of serving a warrant, but I do agree that this elderly fellow does deserve to be arrested for felony assault.
Sorry, but the LEO didn't identify himself. It's my humble opinion that the man had the right to defend himself if he felt threatened.
Also, why didn't the LEO arrest him for assault on the spot? Certainly you can't hit an LEO in uniform without repercussions at that moment. Seems kinda shady to me. Lots of that going around lately.
KevDen2005
01-04-2013, 15:55
FELONY assault? Deadly weapon? No.
I agree that you shouldn't hit anyone with a cane, but this should be billed as a misdemeanor.
Automatically felony assault BECAUSE he is a police officer. And yes a cane, baseball bat, etc can be and will be considered a deadly weapon in instances like this. I love the cop bashing threads, I really do. However, the law still applies to the elderly. If this person hit anyone else and there was PC to write a warrant the same circumstances would hace occurred.
StagLefty
01-04-2013, 15:58
What about the claim he was in civilian clothing and no identification ?
With the little information we have, it certainly doesn't seem like it should be a felony and/or "assault with a deadly weapon". The victim was not in uniform and did not identify himself, and he took something that belonged to Mr. Copeland. While it may not have been worth whacking the guy in the head over, by the same token, it probably wasn't worth taking in the first place.
KevDen2005
01-04-2013, 16:07
Was the officer off duty or working off duty. Those are two different things, which does not appear to be made clear in the article. And are you suggesting that the person that got arrested would tell the entire truth to the news? That would be a first.
I'm just hoping we see an ACB (assault cane ban) soon. Im now paranoid of elderly people! ;)
And yes, at the end of the day, the man hit (as much as an 85 year old man can) someone with his cane. Lots of questions about this one and we'll have to wait to see more details, I suppose.
Crystal ball time: City drops assault charge based on "volunteer reserve officer" not properly identifying himself, in exchange for the elderly gentleman not suing for false arrest and assault in kind.
I agree there aren't enough facts but as an off duty LEO (working or not); if you felt someone assaulted you with a "deadly weapon" would you just report it later or deal with it immediately?
Teufelhund
01-04-2013, 16:23
Was the officer off duty or working off duty. Those are two different things, which does not appear to be made clear in the article. And are you suggesting that the person that got arrested would tell the entire truth to the news? That would be a first.
OT: what does "working off duty" mean?
First. It wasn't a cop it was a volunteer police officer. They don't carry weapons nor drive police cars.
Second. He's 85... Even with a machete I wouldn't be worried. He's so old he probably can't even swing it. Let alone do anything with a CANE.
Third. He's on 28 different meds... All the medications indicate he's NOT well.
When the police are doing this? Maybe poor judgement on timing to serve the warrant, but other than that even if the person hit wasn't a cop the guy didn't need to strike the off-duty LEO with a freaking CANE! I may not 100% agree with DPD's execution of serving a warrant, but I do agree that this elderly fellow does deserve to be arrested for felony assault.
Uh. You probably have walked into walls harder then that old guy could hit you. He has to use a walker and can't support himself. If some guy tried to take something away from me I'd argue that's theft and I have the right to defend my property.
Chalk up another one for the police. It is cases like this where the actions of 1 officer (and a reserve officer at that) doing something stupid that will give the whole department a bad name. Being Denver, I'm surprised the old guy didn't get a magazine full of lead. Suppose he should be thankful for that [facepalm]. Regardless, this is why people get ill feelings towards LE.
DSB OUTDOORS
01-04-2013, 17:40
I have to laugh, when my grandmother was alive in a nursing home. I got a call at work and apparently she stabbed an elderly woman in the hand with a fork, for taking food off her plate. [blaster] [handbags]
brokenscout
01-04-2013, 17:47
It said he was in plain clothes.
Was the officer off duty or working off duty. Those are two different things, which does not appear to be made clear in the article. And are you suggesting that the person that got arrested would tell the entire truth to the news? That would be a first.
brokenscout
01-04-2013, 17:48
For an expired handicapped placard , Really
This isn't about cop bashing, it's about misuse of authority. It could, and should, have been handled right then and right there on the spot. Making a "raid" in the middle of the night to arrest a dangerous geezer out of his bed is just not justified in this case. He whacked the guy once, he didn't "assault" him or beat him senseless. There was no need for the officer to push the issue as far as he did, he should have identified himself, said "look, your placard's expired so you need to park in a regular spot, or you'll get a ticket for prking in the handicapped space illegally".
The old guy wasn't driving, he was a passenger. The driver could have dropped him at the door, even escorted him inside to an electric shopping cart or whatever, then parked the car. Yes, the officer had the right and authority to confiscate the expired placard, we all know they're no good when they're expired.
So using the parking space was wrong, but using force against the old man was even more wrong, and making an arrest raid on him in the middle of the night was over the edge wrong. This did not warrant police state tactics, IMHO.
Cops need to work with citizens as much as possible, not have the "lord and master" attitude over them. Many cops seem to be just fine with the "Andy Griffith approach", and there seems to be too many with the "Barney Fife approach".
StagLefty
01-04-2013, 18:17
Glad it wasn't in Boulder during elk season [ROFL2]
BushMasterBoy
01-04-2013, 18:18
Should have been a uniformed patrol officer handling this...this guy is an "at risk adult" under the law. Old man should not have hit the guy with his cane! But on the other hand, should the "officer" have confiscated his placard? I wonder what Denver Police Department Policy is on this? Is it published? Feel free to enlighten me!
"Police may confiscate a placard if they believe it is being used illegally. Police officers have clear authority to enforce parking
laws on private property, such as at a mall or grocery store."
Source:
http://jeffco.us/jeffco/mv_uploads/Parking_Program_for_Persons_with_Disabilities.pdf
CRS
18-6.5-102. Definitions
As used in this article, unless the context otherwise requires:
(1) "At-risk adult" means any person who is sixty years of age or older or any person who is eighteen years of age or older and is a person with a disability as said term is defined in subsection (3) of this section.
(1.5) "At-risk juvenile" means any person who is under the age of eighteen years and is a person with a disability as said term is defined in subsection (3) of this section.
(1.7) "Convicted" and "conviction" mean a plea of guilty accepted by the court, including a plea of guilty entered pursuant to a deferred sentence under section 18-1.3-102 (http://www.ar-15.co/research/buttonTFLink?_m=98b4a6506059b9e4af7301f8a9febad7&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-6.5-102%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=2&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2018-1.3-102&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLbVzV-zSkAW&_md5=fdd0c5cfaffdd0934d3f008906474272), a verdict of guilty by a judge or jury, or a plea of no contest accepted by the court.
(1.8) "Crime against an at-risk adult or at-risk juvenile" means any offense listed in section 18-6.5-103 (http://www.ar-15.co/research/buttonTFLink?_m=98b4a6506059b9e4af7301f8a9febad7&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-6.5-102%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=3&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2018-6.5-103&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLbVzV-zSkAW&_md5=eb527a6962ec85848c41d7004ba442ff) or criminal attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit any of those offenses.
(2) "Neglect" has the same meaning as set forth in section 26-3.1-101 (4) (b) (http://www.ar-15.co/research/buttonTFLink?_m=98b4a6506059b9e4af7301f8a9febad7&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-6.5-102%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=4&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2026-3.1-101&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLbVzV-zSkAW&_md5=25db5589dd0005ede1c3c697596d3364), C.R.S.
(3) "Person with a disability" means any person who:
(a) Is impaired because of the loss of or permanent loss of use of a hand or foot or because of blindness or the permanent impairment of vision of both eyes to such a degree as to constitute virtual blindness; or
(b) Is unable to walk, see, hear, or speak; or
(c) Is unable to breathe without mechanical assistance; or
(d) Is developmentally disabled as defined in section 27-10.5-102 (11) (http://www.ar-15.co/research/buttonTFLink?_m=98b4a6506059b9e4af7301f8a9febad7&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-6.5-102%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=5&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2027-10.5-102&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLbVzV-zSkAW&_md5=490b3023fcefd6affbee3abb8b097706), C.R.S.; or
(e) Is a person with a mental illness as the term is defined in section 27-65-102 (14) (http://www.ar-15.co/research/buttonTFLink?_m=98b4a6506059b9e4af7301f8a9febad7&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-6.5-102%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=6&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2027-65-102&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLbVzV-zSkAW&_md5=4ba8d316486bd706f8af9134d12cfbdf), C.R.S.; or
(f) Is mentally impaired as the term is defined in section 24-34-301 (2.5) (b) (III) (http://www.ar-15.co/research/buttonTFLink?_m=98b4a6506059b9e4af7301f8a9febad7&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-6.5-102%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=7&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2024-34-301&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLbVzV-zSkAW&_md5=3f1da7383e5c9feb1fe2c09bf61e0afd), C.R.S.; or
(g) Is blind as that term is defined in section 26-2-103 (3) (http://www.ar-15.co/research/buttonTFLink?_m=98b4a6506059b9e4af7301f8a9febad7&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-6.5-102%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=8&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2026-2-103&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLbVzV-zSkAW&_md5=5c862cf1622587aef015846999b45745), C.R.S.; or
(h) Is receiving care and treatment for a developmental disability under article 10.5 of title 27, C.R.S.
(3.5) "Position of trust" means assuming a responsibility, duty, or fiduciary relationship toward an at-risk adult or at-risk juvenile.
(4) Any subsection, or portion of a subsection, of this section declared to be unconstitutional or otherwise invalid shall not impair the remaining provisions of this section.
Teufelhund
01-04-2013, 18:19
This isn't about cop bashing, it's about misuse of authority. It could, and should, have been handled right then and right there on the spot. Making a "raid" in the middle of the night to arrest a dangerous geezer out of his bed is just not justified in this case. He whacked the guy once, he didn't "assault" him or beat him senseless. There was no need for the officer to push the issue as far as he did, he should have identified himself, said "look, your placard's expired so you need to park in a regular spot, or you'll get a ticket for prking in the handicapped space illegally".
The old guy wasn't driving, he was a passenger. The driver could have dropped him at the door, even escorted him inside to an electric shopping cart or whatever, then parked the car. Yes, the officer had the right and authority to confiscate the expired placard, we all know they're no good when they're expired.
So using the parking space was wrong, but using force against the old man was even more wrong, and making an arrest raid on him in the middle of the night was over the edge wrong. This did not warrant police state tactics, IMHO.
Cops need to work with citizens as much as possible, not have the "lord and master" attitude over them. Many cops seem to be just fine with the "Andy Griffith approach", and there seems to be too many with the "Barney Fife approach".
+1. Abuse of authority and mishandled situations aside, can we not just exercise a little common sense and courtesy anymore? For christ's sake, it's a senior citizen with a cane - he's not allowed to park a little closer to the building because his permit is out of date? I'm sure the 30-something with a valid permit, issued simply because her ass is too fucking fat to walk, who parked there after him is just fine though.
Sorry, I disagree. No reason for an off- duty cop to bully an old man over a damn handicap space and expired placard. He could have handled it more profesionally.
My landlord is 80 years old with a heart condition. 2 years ago an off duty DPD almost beat the shit out of him because he had the audacity to beep his horn when the off duty officer blocked him into a parking space. First, he badged him and asked if he had a firearm in his truck . . . after being told no, he was screamed at, threatened, and the off duty cop refused to let him out of the parking space. He called a patrol car to run my landlord for warrants and wants and issue him some BS ticket for improper use of the horn or something like that. The uniformed cop completely ignored my landlord and was joking around with the off duty officer for about 15 minutes and asking him how his vacation was. Personally, I think DPD needs random piss tests for steroids and other illicit substances. Everyone in Capitol Hill is more scared of the DPD than the bad guys, which is why so many crimes go unreported.
<MADDOG>
01-04-2013, 19:02
Automatically felony assault BECAUSE he is a police officer. And yes a cane, baseball bat, etc can be and will be considered a deadly weapon in instances like this. I love the cop bashing threads, I really do. However, the law still applies to the elderly. If this person hit anyone else and there was PC to write a warrant the same circumstances would hace occurred.
I have two problems with this:
1. How does "assaulting" a LEO, regardless if he/she is a volunteer, uniformed or non-uniformed, be somehow placed into an immediately higher penalty than a "civilian" assault?
2. Would the same argument for "it's against the law" be made if the offender was a 10 year old girl with a broom handle? Would she too face the incarceration and $50K bond?
I won't get into the rest of this, because this whole scenario is bullshit, "cop bashing" or not.
Some guy in plain clothes tries to grab any of my shit and he would get more than a whack from a retirees' cane that's for sure.
KevDen2005
01-04-2013, 19:14
I have two problems with this:
1. How does "assaulting" a LEO, regardless if he/she is a volunteer, uniformed or non-uniformed, be somehow placed into an immediately higher penalty than a "civilian" assault?
2. Would the same argument for "it's against the law" be made if the offender was a 10 year old girl with a broom handle? Would she too face the incarceration and $50K bond?
I won't get into the rest of this, because this whole scenario is bullshit, "cop bashing" or not.
First, I didn't write the law. Second, I guess the legislature feels that police officers and fire fighters are placed in dangerous situations and have to become confrontational that they become a victim of felony assault a little easier than the average person, however the police cannot be victims of other crimes. If this person wasn't a police officer the charge would still be felony because of the use of the cane. And to put it simple, as a police officer, I don't allow anyone to touch me, no matter your age, gender, race, religion etc. I am perfectly equal with this. If you swing a weapon at me, I will probably do something in return.
i still say throw the book at that assault cane waving senior , hell lets get a group of people to surround that awful blood crazed lunatic and pelt him to death with books !
<MADDOG>
01-04-2013, 19:19
First, I didn't write the law. Second, I guess the legislature feels that police officers and fire fighters are placed in dangerous situations and have to become confrontational that they become a victim of felony assault a little easier than the average person, however the police cannot be victims of other crimes. If this person wasn't a police officer the charge would still be felony because of the use of the cane. And to put it simple, as a police officer, I don't allow anyone to touch me, no matter your age, gender, race, religion etc. I am perfectly equal with this. If you swing a weapon at me, I will probably do something in return.
Didn't answer my questions...
Home Depot in Denver must have rather significant issues with their handicapped spots if they are hiring cops to monitor the spaces.
DPD seems to be 'on it' though, this should put a stop to anyone haphazardly using those spaces with an expired handicap tag!
Didn't answer my questions...
They're government servants. The govt is going to hold them in a higher regard then a normal civilian and thus the penalties are stricter.
KevDen2005
01-04-2013, 19:37
Didn't answer my questions...
Okay, since you are having trouble reading your answers are as follows:
1. Because the law is written that way, read my statement again.
2. Yes, she's 10 and would most likely be charged.
And I never pointed what I thought about the situation, only the black and white of it, "Idiot bashing" or not.
and we should take away the price is right and matlok reruns . make that old man regret every day he ever lived . i cant believe the potus has not had him shot yet or at least made a public statment on the dangers of old men with canes and how they threaten even the most hardened leo .
[LOL]
Sharpienads
01-04-2013, 19:49
Okay, since you are having trouble reading your answers are as follows:
1. Because the law is written that way, read my statement again.
2. Yes, she's 10 and would most likely be charged.
And I never pointed what I thought about the situation, only the black and white of it, "Idiot bashing" or not.
This made me lol.
Uberjager
01-04-2013, 19:58
Absolute bullshit. "I could have been killed." Maybe if the officer would have said, "Sir, your handicap placard is expired. I'm going to let you off with a warning"; then, there wouldn't have been an issue.
Some guy in plain clothes tries to grab any of my shit and he would get more than a whack from a retirees' cane that's for sure.
In NYC half of the transit cops on the subway are plainclothes . . . and a lot of them look like thugs too. Apparently they spend a lot of time trying to spot people who have pocketknives clipped to their pockets, getting in their face and hassling them before identifying themselves as NYPD and arresting them for the pocketknife. I am of the opinion that if a plainclothed or off duty policeman wants to approach a random citizen with the intent of possibly arresting him for a minor violation of the law, he should clearly identify himself as police and show identification so the citizen knows he's actually a cop and not some street whacko. It just seems like common sense.
<MADDOG>
01-04-2013, 20:03
Kendev2005, this is not a personal attack on you, just on what you have written..
However: your "black and white" statement does not take away the fact that assaulting a LEO, or other "classified" persons, has special meaning when it comes down to the protection of law. Why should assaulting me or Joe Bob down the street equal any different protection than a LEO or the mayor of Denver?
A 10 year old being "charged" versus an 85 year old man incarcerated and levied with a $50K bond = not the same. But the physical output of her and a 85 year old man would be the same.
And why cannot "police be victims of other crimes"?
start a cane buy back program .
KevDen2005
01-04-2013, 20:40
Kendev2005, this is not a personal attack on you, just on what you have written..
However: your "black and white" statement does not take away the fact that assaulting a LEO, or other "classified" persons, has special meaning when it comes down to the protection of law. Why should assaulting me or Joe Bob down the street equal any different protection than a LEO or the mayor of Denver?
A 10 year old being "charged" versus an 85 year old man incarcerated and levied with a $50K bond = not the same. But the physical output of her and a 85 year old man would be the same.
And why cannot "police be victims of other crimes"?
The reason why I point out the black and white of it is because none of us here know the whole story. If it is as everyone says or thinks on this board I know for certain at my PD I would have disciplinary action. I know under the new chief at DPD there would most likely be disciplinary action. He is getting rid of so-called "problem children" in the department so that the PD can get its footing again and get more support from the public. The old days at DPD are going to be behind them in the near future. No matter what your feelings are with the new chief, that's the writing on the wall. Maybe a DPD guy on the board would like to chime in and give what he thinks, but at the lower lever I have heard numerous good things. The people I hear bitching over there are senior officers that don't do much or from someone who messed up and is getting fired rather than their job saved so hopefully a good cop can take his place. Again, if a DPD wants to say it better or correct me where I'm wrong, I'm all for it.
Now, plain clothes does not mean off-duty. Just because a suspect says one thing, doesn't always make it so, that is for the court to decide. The fact of the matter is, there apparently was enough probable cause to get a warrant written for the old guy. And I feel like a judge is pretty strict about stuff like that, in my experience.
I am well aware of what you mean with "At risk adults." Being "At risk" does not allow you to hit someone with a cane. Again, I don't know why the person was contacted by the plain clothes officer. I am pointing out the black and white of it. Was he really afraid for his life? Beats the crap out of me. I can tell you that a 90 year Gracie beat the crap out of an Army Ranger captain when the Army was first adopting Jiu Jitsu. I am sure the guy with a cane isn't a Jiu Jitsu master, but I don't know since I wasn't there. I would also suggest that if the officer was completely wrong than the PD would probably have dropped it to save embarrassment.
I can tell you that you should never assume if someone is better than you, that's how people get hurt. Was the officer wrong, I have no idea. I am pointing what the law says about charging felony assault. Again, if you strike can cause pain to a police officer or firefighter it now is 2nd degree assault in this state rather than 3rd degree. Again, that's what the law says. I can only assume why the legislature put that there. And yes, I have charged elderly people with crimes and young juveniles with crimes. Sometimes there is little discretion. The difference in charging is that the 10 year old could be charged exactly the same way but they are juvenile and special considerations have to be made. The juvenile could still be transported to a facility and held until bond, just like an adult.
The mayor doesn't get special provisions as far as I know, they are not a police officer or firefighter. The law is written with emergency service personnel in mind to try to better protect them from the people they are contacting would be my assumption.
An example would be that police can't be victims of harassment. If someone tells you that they will kill you that person can be charged. If someone tells me that they are going to kill me than that's just part of the job.
Did anybody catch my comment recently about my last trip to PetSmart? They had a uniformed, armed guard inside the store, by the door. In PetSmart in Parker!
Talk about a WTF? moment....
KevDen2005
01-04-2013, 20:49
OT: what does "working off duty" mean?
Working off duty means that your agency is hired to basically work security. For instance, Off-Duty positions for us include hospital security. Aurora used to get hired for a movie theater on Friday and Saturday nights. To everyone who hates cops on this board it looks like a ridiculous waste of tax payer dollars by the police. In reality, the money comes from the organization that hired them, i.e. the hospital or the movie theater.
It is similar to over time but over time is generally paid for by the city (tax payer).
If no one else answered this I hope this helps.
Un-fricken-believable. Explain it away all you want, but IMO nothing these guys did makes sense. A common sense deficiency. Pretty common lately.
If he had a cane sword I could see it being a deadly weapon. should have been in uniform. I question if thge cop presented himself as such and explained the enforcement other than just taking his sign. guy probably doesn't have much left in life and had to go through some crap to get a handicap permit. either way, unless the cop has some injuries it would be nice if they dropped the charges and helped the guy get a current permit.
KevDen2005
01-04-2013, 21:04
So let me get this straight. When the news posts anything unrelated to police action no one on this board believes it and complains about how inept the media is. When something in the news is about the police it has now become gospel and there couldn't be any other way of how this may have gone down.
Sharpienads
01-04-2013, 21:17
So let me get this straight. When the news posts anything unrelated to police action no one on this board believes it and complains about how inept the media is. When something in the news is about the police it has now become gospel and there couldn't be any other way of how this may have gone down.
That just about sums it up.
well i hope they gave that old fart the beating of his life . we need to put a stop to the elderly thinking that they can just use a cane all willy nilly . my heart goes out to that poor officer that was brutally attacked buy that viscous thug . i bet he is part of the aarp gang i keep hearing about on the boob tube . if we dont put an end to cane's , walkers and hoverrounds then our police will never be safe from these elderly hoodlums and ruffians ! [soap][rant-off][soap]
i still say throw the book at that assault cane waving senior , hell lets get a group of people to surround that awful blood crazed lunatic and pelt him to death with books !
and we should take away the price is right and matlok reruns . make that old man regret every day he ever lived . i cant believe the potus has not had him shot yet or at least made a public statment on the dangers of old men with canes and how they threaten even the most hardened leo .
[LOL]
The reason why I point out the black and white of it is because none of us here know the whole story. If it is as everyone says or thinks on this board I know for certain at my PD I would have disciplinary action. I know under the new chief at DPD there would most likely be disciplinary action. He is getting rid of so-called "problem children" in the department so that the PD can get its footing again and get more support from the public. The old days at DPD are going to be behind them in the near future. No matter what your feelings are with the new chief, that's the writing on the wall. Maybe a DPD guy on the board would like to chime in and give what he thinks, but at the lower lever I have heard numerous good things. The people I hear bitching over there are senior officers that don't do much or from someone who messed up and is getting fired rather than their job saved so hopefully a good cop can take his place. Again, if a DPD wants to say it better or correct me where I'm wrong, I'm all for it.
Now, plain clothes does not mean off-duty. Just because a suspect says one thing, doesn't always make it so, that is for the court to decide. The fact of the matter is, there apparently was enough probable cause to get a warrant written for the old guy. And I feel like a judge is pretty strict about stuff like that, in my experience.
I am well aware of what you mean with "At risk adults." Being "At risk" does not allow you to hit someone with a cane. Again, I don't know why the person was contacted by the plain clothes officer. I am pointing out the black and white of it. Was he really afraid for his life? Beats the crap out of me. I can tell you that a 90 year Gracie beat the crap out of an Army Ranger captain when the Army was first adopting Jiu Jitsu. I am sure the guy with a cane isn't a Jiu Jitsu master, but I don't know since I wasn't there. I would also suggest that if the officer was completely wrong than the PD would probably have dropped it to save embarrassment.
I can tell you that you should never assume if someone is better than you, that's how people get hurt. Was the officer wrong, I have no idea. I am pointing what the law says about charging felony assault. Again, if you strike can cause pain to a police officer or firefighter it now is 2nd degree assault in this state rather than 3rd degree. Again, that's what the law says. I can only assume why the legislature put that there. And yes, I have charged elderly people with crimes and young juveniles with crimes. Sometimes there is little discretion. The difference in charging is that the 10 year old could be charged exactly the same way but they are juvenile and special considerations have to be made. The juvenile could still be transported to a facility and held until bond, just like an adult.
The mayor doesn't get special provisions as far as I know, they are not a police officer or firefighter. The law is written with emergency service personnel in mind to try to better protect them from the people they are contacting would be my assumption.
An example would be that police can't be victims of harassment. If someone tells you that they will kill you that person can be charged. If someone tells me that they are going to kill me than that's just part of the job.
i clearly think that we should not only ban canes but kick anyone who uses one over the age of 80 square in the hip . i also think we should start a fund for all those poor officers that are now traumatized and are afraid of grandpas .
ok im just funnin around . the out come matters not, in just a few years that old man will be soilent green[ThanksG] anyway
Didn't mean for this to be "cop bashing". Just a lot of curiousity surrounding it. Kevin, any thoughts on why they came at the time they did? Is it just a timing of when a judge signs a warrant? I can't imagine how many wankers cops have to deal with on a regular basis. I assume you become slightly jaded towards general idiocy and irresponsibility. However, whether valid or not, cops (Especially Denver) have a bad rep of "looking" for a crime. Personally, I've had good experiences with cops. But I'm always respectful to them, too. I'm sure more info will come to light in the next few days so we'll see.
KevDen2005
01-04-2013, 21:35
Didn't mean for this to be "cop bashing". Just a lot of curiousity surrounding it. Kevin, any thoughts on why they came at the time they did? Is it just a timing of when a judge signs a warrant? I can't imagine how many wankers cops have to deal with on a regular basis. I assume you become slightly jaded towards general idiocy and irresponsibility. However, whether valid or not, cops (Especially Denver) have a bad rep of "looking" for a crime. Personally, I've had good experiences with cops. But I'm always respectful to them, too. I'm sure more info will come to light in the next few days so we'll see.
I would certainly argue that looking for crime (within common sense) is a good idea. To do the best we possibly can and prevent crime rather than react to it can be good for everyone, in a lot of ways, and a lot of the time, again within the Constitution and within common sense. I have no idea why it took so long. A warrant like that could take a few days to get through the system (in my jurisdiction, don't know about Denver). On top of that the holidays and then it getting down to the warrant division (if that's who served it) otherwise I don't know. It's timing I'm sure. I'm just pointing out that everyone is quick to side with the guy who hit the officer when he admitted to it, according to the article. Everything else is speculation and I have no idea why it occurred the way it did.
Ahhhh the small bit I caught on the news said this was some kind of volunteer, plain clothes ticket writer. Not a regular cop. The old guys story was corroborated by a couple people who saw it go down.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-04-2013, 22:34
Didn't mean for this to be "cop bashing". Just a lot of curiousity surrounding it. Kevin, any thoughts on why they came at the time they did? Is it just a timing of when a judge signs a warrant? I can't imagine how many wankers cops have to deal with on a regular basis. I assume you become slightly jaded towards general idiocy and irresponsibility. However, whether valid or not, cops (Especially Denver) have a bad rep of "looking" for a crime. Personally, I've had good experiences with cops. But I'm always respectful to them, too. I'm sure more info will come to light in the next few days so we'll see.
Well fuck... I've been mistaken the entire time. I thought that was what the police were paid for.
DavieD55
01-04-2013, 22:35
The excessive $50,000 bail for an 85 year old at risk adult is a crime in its self.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-04-2013, 22:38
The excessive $50,000 bail for an 85 year old at risk adult is a crime in its self.
You must not understand how bail is set...
EDIT: http://www.denvergov.org/GeneralInformationandAnnouncements/DenverCountyCourtBondingSchedule/tabid/430246/Default.aspx
Denver County Court Bond Schedule
The bond schedules below have been established by the Denver County Court.
Note: when coming to the Bonding Office to post bond, a defendant will be expected to post the entire bond amount, and may also be assessed one or more of the following fees:
$50 Bond fee per bond posted (excludes Personal Recognizance bonds)
$30 Inmate Processing Fee per booking into the Detention Center
$30 per Outstanding Judgment Warrant (OJW)
Bonds will not be posted unless bond and fees are paid in full.
Credit cards (VISA/MC) are accepted as a form of payment for posting a bond, as long as the owner of the credit card provides a valid form of ID at the time the bond is posted.
DENVER COUNTY COURT SCHEDULE OF BONDS
This schedule hereby sets forth bond amounts for municipal violations; misdemeanors; and felony cases.
Municipal Bond Schedule
Citation
Description
Bond Amount
34-46
Wrongs to Minors
$1,500
38-31(a)
Interference to Police Authority
$500
38-31(b)
Interference with a Sheriff’s Deputy
$500
38-31(c)
Failure to Obey Lawful Order
$500
38-32(a)
Resistance to Police authority
$500
38-32(b)
Resistance to Sheriff authority
$500
38-37
Escape
$1,500
38-43
Violation of Restraining Order
Court Appearance Required
38-93
Assault
$500
38-93.1
Public Fighting
$100
38-94
Unlawful Acts Around Schools (any related charges)
$500
38-114(b)
Harassment Near Health Care Facility
$500
38-117(a)
Concealed Weapon
$1,500
Second or More Offenses
Court Appearance Required
38-117(b)
Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon
$1,500
Second or More Offenses
Court Appearance Required
38-117(c)
Flourishing A Weapon
$1,500
Second or More Offenses
Court Appearance Required
38-121
Discharging/Firing a Weapon-Firearms
$500
38-126 (b), (c) or (d)
Incendiary Device-Explosive
$1,500
38-130
Assault Weapons
Court Appearance Required
38-157
Unlawful Public Indecency
$500
38-157.1
Indecent Exposure
$500
38-158
Prostitution (any related charges)
$1,000
Second or More Offenses
Court Appearance Required
14-33(f)
Domestic Violence
Court Appearance Required
18-18-406(1)
Possession of Marijuana Under One Ounce
$100
18-18-406(3)
Public Consumption of Marijuana
Court Appearance Required
18-18-428
Possession of drug paraphernalia
$100
Traffic Infractions
No Bond Required
All other Denver Revised Municipal Code violations
$100
54-126
Reckless Driving
$500
54-56
Eluding a Police Officer
$1,000
54-159
Drag Racing
$500
Misdemeanor Bond Schedule
Citation
Description
Bond Amount
All Traffic Offenses except for those listed below.
$100
Petty Offense – Class 1
$100
Petty Offense – Class 2
$100
Class 1
$1,500
Class 2
$750
Class 3
$750
12-47-901(1)(h)(I)
Public Consumption of Alcohol
$100
18-3-206
Menacing
$750
18-3-208
Reckless Endangerment
$750
25-14-208(1)
Owner Allowed Prohibited Smoking
$100
25-14-208(2)
Smoking Prohibited
$100
25-14-103.5
Smoking Prohibited Schools
$100
42-4-1301(6)(a)(III)
DUI
$1,500
42-4-1301(6)(a)(II)
DWAI
$1,000
42-2-138(1)(a)
DUR
$750
42-2-138(1)(d)(I)
DUR due to alcohol-related driving offense
$750
42-2-205
Habitual Offender
$500
42-4-1409
NPOI
$750
42-4-1602
Hit & Run
$750
42-4-1402
Careless Driving
$200
42-20-201
Hazardous Material – Transport w/o permit
$200
42-20-305
Hazardous Material – Deviate from route
$200
18-6-801
Domestic Violence
Court Appearance Required
18-6-803.5
Violation of Restraining Order-DV
Court Appearance Required
18-6-401
Wrongs to Children
Court Appearance Required
Felony Bond Schedule
Citation
Description
Bond Amount
Class 1
No Bond
Class 2
$100,000
Class 3
$10,000
Class 4
$5,000
Class 5
$5,000
Class 6
$2,000
Specific Offenses – Regardless of Class
16-13-303(1)(b)
16-13-303(1)(c)
16-13-303(1)(d)
16-13-303(1)(f)
16-13-303(1)(g)
16-13-303(1)(h)
16-13-303(1)(i)
16-13-303(1)(j)
16-13-303(1)(k)
Public Nuisance – Gambling
“” Controlled Substance
“” By Statute
“” Drug Paraphernalia
“” Child Prostitution
“” Sex Exploitation
“” Commission of Felony
“” Eluding
“” Hit and Run
$10,000
18-4-301
Aggravated Robbery
$50,000
18-4-102
Arson
$50,000
18-6-401
Child Abuse with Bodily Injury
$50,000
18-8-208
Escape
$50,000
18-4-202
1st Degree Burglary of Building (Drugs) or With Assault, Menacing or Weapon Involved
$50,000
18-3-402(1)(h)
Sexual Assault on Helpless
$50,000
18-3-402(4)(a)-(d)
Sexual Assault force, violence, threat
$50,000
18-3-405(2)(a)-(d)
Sexual Assault on a Child
$50,000
18-3-405.3
Sexual Assault on a Child-Position of Trust
$50,000
18-3-205
Vehicular Assault
$50,000
18-3-105
Deadly Weapon Involved With Criminally Negligent Homicide
$50,000
18-3-104
Deadly Weapon Involved with Manslaughter
$50,000
18-3-203(b)or(d)
Deadly Weapon Involved with 2ndDegree Assault
$50,000
18-3-302(4)(a)(II)
Deadly Weapon Involved with Kidnapping
$50,000
18-3-206(a)or(b)
Deadly Weapon Involved with Menacing
$50,000
18-18-412.5
Manufacture of Controlled Substances
$30,000
16-4-103(1)
Schedule I and II Controlled Substances
$50,000
porfiriozg
01-04-2013, 22:42
Sorry, I disagree. No reason for an off- duty cop to bully an old man over a damn handicap space and expired placard. He could have handled it more professionally. Don't start none, won't be none.
not an officer just a volunteer
You must not understand how bail is set...
You must not understand the 8th Amendment.
DavieD55
01-04-2013, 22:42
You must not understand how bail is set...
You must not understand the constitution...
JM Ver. 2.0
01-04-2013, 22:47
You must not understand the 8th Amendment.
You must not understand the constitution...
Look at my edited post, sirs.... Those would be the bond amounts that are set by the City and County of Denver... The Bond amounts are set by CRIME without any consideration given to the person committing the crime.
Judges aren't around at 2am to set bail. Thus, bail is set by the schedule of bonds. The amount can be increased or decreased by a judge. The bond amount that you are held under when first arrested is a "temporary" bond that is subject to modification by a judge. IF you pay the $50,000 and your bond is reduced, the difference is given back. If you pay the $50,000 and they increase your bond, you are arrested again and held until the remaining amount is paid.
If you want to argue how its done, I suggest you write a letter.
AND! In regards to your two comments.... Neither one of you must understand The Constitution... Mostly you, DavieD, since you don't even have enough respect for it to capitalize it correctly.
ronaldrwl
01-04-2013, 22:52
How typical. Circle the wagons. And quote the law
Jesus.
1) Anyone telling me that they are a volunteer anything better be turning around and walking away post haste.
2) You don't approach someone in plain clothes and start grabbing stuff.
3) If you are 85 years old, you are automatically handi-capped. PERIOD. Handicapped signs were created for people who are handicapped and look too young to be handicapped. I would NEVER hassle someone who was 85 years old for parking in a handicapped spot. Ever.
4) This article has reinforced my belief that there can be nothing worse than a volunteer law enforcement personal.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-04-2013, 22:56
Jesus.
1) Anyone telling me that they are a volunteer anything better be turning around and walking away post haste.
2) You don't approach someone in plain clothes and start grabbing stuff.
3) If you are 85 years old, you are automatically handi-capped. PERIOD. Handicapped signs were created for people who are handicapped and look too young to be handicapped. I would NEVER hassle someone who was 85 years old for parking in a handicapped spot. Ever.
4) This article has reinforced my belief that there can be nothing worse than a volunteer law enforcement personal.
I've been saying that for ages....
BushMasterBoy
01-04-2013, 23:13
We have the best justice system money can buy...
Kraven251
01-04-2013, 23:16
Everything I saw on the news tonight about this, he still hasn't formally been charged for anything
Jesus.
1) Anyone telling me that they are a volunteer anything better be turning around and walking away post haste.
2) You don't approach someone in plain clothes and start grabbing stuff.
3) If you are 85 years old, you are automatically handi-capped. PERIOD. Handicapped signs were created for people who are handicapped and look too young to be handicapped. I would NEVER hassle someone who was 85 years old for parking in a handicapped spot. Ever.
4) This article has reinforced my belief that there can be nothing worse than a volunteer law enforcement personal.
Agreed.
Is he real cop or an off duty Manitou Springs police officer.
4) This article has reinforced my belief that there can be nothing worse than a volunteer law enforcement personal.
Honestly, if a "volunteer law enforcement" person came up to my car with their yellow sirens flashing and their shitty ass car and no badge I'd tell them to eat my dick. Then escalate the situation to the point where a real officer comes out and lol's that a volunteer cop tried to fuck with me without a gun. Then walk away after my lawyer gets me off the hook and sues for legal costs.
DavieD55
01-05-2013, 00:17
Look at my edited post, sirs.... Those would be the bond amounts that are set by the City and County of Denver... The Bond amounts are set by CRIME without any consideration given to the person committing the crime.
Judges aren't around at 2am to set bail. Thus, bail is set by the schedule of bonds. The amount can be increased or decreased by a judge. The bond amount that you are held under when first arrested is a "temporary" bond that is subject to modification by a judge. IF you pay the $50,000 and your bond is reduced, the difference is given back. If you pay the $50,000 and they increase your bond, you are arrested again and held until the remaining amount is paid.
If you want to argue how its done, I suggest you write a letter.
AND! In regards to your two comments.... Neither one of you must understand The Constitution... Mostly you, DavieD, since you don't even have enough respect for it to capitalize it correctly.
Big whoop dee doo daw... I wouldn't have even wrote this guy a ticket, even if he hit me with his cane.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 00:20
Big whoop dee doo daw... I wouldn't have even wrote this guy a ticket, even if he hit me with his cane.
Meh. To each their own. Like I said, don't like it? Write a letter.
Meh. To each their own. Like I said, don't like it? Write a letter.
I think you mean 80+ year old hits me with a cane I'm going to be a bitch. Even though it didn't hurt. After I forced my way into a vehicle that wasn't mine to take something that wasn't mine.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 00:26
I think you mean 80+ year old hits me with a cane I'm going to be a bitch. Even though it didn't hurt. After I forced my way into a vehicle that wasn't mine to take something that wasn't mine.
If you want to be a bitch that's your business, not mine. I'm not one to say if it hurt or not... You're the one getting hit in your comment, not me.
If you want to be a bitch that's your business, not mine. I'm not one to say if it hurt or not... You're the one getting hit in your comment, not me.
I guess that's the problem. You're not one to say if it hurt or not. You simply want to try and punish someone for bullshit. If it was a REAL cop I don't think any cop would have the lack of integrity to be that much of a bitch. They wouldn't even feel it under their vest and uniform. The guy can't even stand on his own without a walker.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 00:37
I guess that's the problem. You're not one to say if it hurt or not. You simply want to try and punish someone for bullshit. If it was a REAL cop I don't think any cop would have the lack of integrity to be that much of a bitch. They wouldn't even feel it under their vest and uniform. The guy can't even stand on his own without a walker.
For the love of fuck, bro... When you post your worthless banter, please do it correctly so you sound more intelligent. Right now, both your posts make you look stupid. Fix them, then maybe I'll take you seriously. For the record, this has NOTHING to do with the old man getting arrested. This have everything to do with your lack of ability to form a cognitive sentence.
For the love of fuck, bro... When you post your worthless banter, please do it correctly so you sound more intelligent. Right now, both your posts make you look stupid. Fix them, then maybe I'll take you seriously. For the record, this has NOTHING to do with the old man getting arrested. This have everything to do with your lack of ability to form a cognitive sentence.
Please re-write my sentences to make them more "intelligent" as I'm obviously just a uneducated human being. Also, if it has nothing to do with the old guy getting arrested why are you even voicing an opinion on this topic? Are you just randomly posting random shit to NOT support a stance? That seems likely...
DavieD55
01-05-2013, 00:44
I guess that's the problem. You're not one to say if it hurt or not. You simply want to try and punish someone for bullshit. If it was a REAL cop I don't think any cop would have the lack of integrity to be that much of a bitch. They wouldn't even feel it under their vest and uniform. The guy can't even stand on his own without a walker.
Don't argue with a boot licking dolt... He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 00:53
I think you mean, "80+ year old hits me with a cane I'm going to be a bitch. Even though it didn't hurt. After I forced my way into a vehicle that wasn't mine to take something that wasn't mine."
Please re-write my sentences to make them more "intelligent" as I'm obviously just a uneducated human being. Also, if it has nothing to do with the old guy getting arrested why are you even voicing an opinion on this topic? Are you just randomly posting random shit to NOT support a stance? That seems likely...
Problem solved. Now you don't look like a bitch.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 00:56
Don't argue with a boot licking dolt... He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Don't be a dumbass that makes comments about a system that you know nothing about being broken and there will be no argument.
I'm not defending the police, the system, or anything else. I'm simply explaining WHY his bond was set at what it was. You're the one rambling off about how it should be. If you think your way is better, write a letter.
Problem solved. Now you don't look like a bitch.
Uh no? I really hope you don't make it through the academy. I'd hate to have you as someone who "protects" the civilians given your obvious biased opinions on things.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 01:03
Uh no? I really hope you don't make it through the academy. I'd hate to have you as someone who "protects" the civilians given your obvious biased opinions on things.
I'm not biased at all, sir. For you to assume, and suggest such, is nothing but a lie. You don't know me. You know nothing about me aside from that I know how the Bond Schedule works. Which is what my only comment was.
The way you wrote your comment made it sound like YOU were going to be a bitch. Now, I know you didn't mean that. Why would you call yourself a bitch?
And, if you want to talk biased... That'd be you and anyone else that thinks a person should be treated, in the eyes of the law, any differently because of their age. If you think that, then you would also believe that race, gender, and sexual orientation should also play a factor.
Don't be a dumbass that makes comments about a system that you know nothing about being broken and there will be no argument.
I'm not defending the police, the system, or anything else. I'm simply explaining WHY his bond was set at what it was. You're the one rambling off about how it should be. If you think your way is better, write a letter.
How the fuck old are you? How many political positions have you held? How many laws have you passed? You shouldn't insult other members if you yourself have zero experience in a system that you actually know nothing about. Granted, I could be wrong in my assumptions but I'm guessing you're not a political figure, nor do you have any endorsements that hang on your political stance, or laws that you vote for or against...
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 01:14
How the fuck old are you? How many political positions have you held? How many laws have you passed? You shouldn't insult other members if you yourself have zero experience in a system that you actually know nothing about. Granted, I could be wrong in my assumptions but I'm guessing you're not a political figure, nor do you have any endorsements that hang on your political stance, or laws that you vote for or against...
You don't have a dog in the fight which you just commented on...
DavieD made a comment on the amount of the bond placed. I explained the way the bond system works. It has nothing to do with politics, laws that have been passed, or anything else. It has to do with the Bond Schedule. Which, oddly enough, isn't political at all. Why are you bringing politics into this? And why are you attacking me for something that wasn't even directed at you?
I'm not biased at all, sir. For you to assume, and suggest such, is nothing but a lie. You don't know me. You know nothing about me aside from that I know how the Bond Schedule works. Which is what my only comment was.
The way you wrote your comment made it sound like YOU were going to be a bitch. Now, I know you didn't mean that. Why would you call yourself a bitch?
And, if you want to talk biased... That'd be you and anyone else that thinks a person should be treated, in the eyes of the law, any differently because of their age. If you think that, then you would also believe that race, gender, and sexual orientation should also play a factor.
Your COMMENT(S) implied far more then a simple understanding of the bond schedule that can be googled. You have other comments that are quoted. I wrote a comment stating you're a bitch because you stated a position that I would associate with bitches. Not law enforcement professionals.
Also, if you're scared of a 80+ year old with a cain and you have a gun?... Well... Shit. What the fuck am I supposed to do when a drunk and disorderly starts a fight and he's actually in shape? Guess I'll find you in the corner, waiting until the fight is done to press charges.
You're just totally trying to negate everything you've said in this whole thread. I'm done arguing with you. Bitch.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 01:22
Your COMMENT(S) implied far more then a simple understanding of the bond schedule that can be googled. You have other comments that are quoted. I wrote a comment stating you're a bitch because you stated a position that I would associate with bitches. Not law enforcement professionals.
Also, if you're scared of a 80+ year old with a cain and you have a gun?... Well... Shit. What the fuck am I supposed to do when a drunk and disorderly starts a fight and he's actually in shape? Guess I'll find you in the corner, waiting until the fight is done to press charges.
I'm sorry... Can you quote where I said I was "afraid of an 80 year old man with a cane"? I said, "I'm not one to say if it hurt or not." I didn't get hit with the cane. How the hell do I know if it hurt?
You can call me a bitch all you want. It won't hurt my feelings much. I've been called worse by people that are scarier than you'll ever be.
You're just totally trying to negate everything you've said in this whole thread. I'm done arguing with you. Bitch.
Personal attacks are always a good out... Have a good night.
I don't know how you quote you quoting my other quotes. But you think I'm scary?Awwwwwwwww. Bitch.
Also it's always been a personal attack because I think you're a bitch. Bitch.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 01:28
Well fuck... I've been mistaken the entire time. I thought that was what the police were paid for.
You must not understand how bail is set...
EDIT: http://www.denvergov.org/GeneralInformationandAnnouncements/DenverCountyCourtBondingSchedule/tabid/430246/Default.aspx
Denver County Court Bond Schedule
The bond schedules below have been established by the Denver County Court.
Note: when coming to the Bonding Office to post bond, a defendant will be expected to post the entire bond amount, and may also be assessed one or more of the following fees:
$50 Bond fee per bond posted (excludes Personal Recognizance bonds)
$30 Inmate Processing Fee per booking into the Detention Center
$30 per Outstanding Judgment Warrant (OJW)
Bonds will not be posted unless bond and fees are paid in full.
Credit cards (VISA/MC) are accepted as a form of payment for posting a bond, as long as the owner of the credit card provides a valid form of ID at the time the bond is posted.
DENVER COUNTY COURT SCHEDULE OF BONDS
This schedule hereby sets forth bond amounts for municipal violations; misdemeanors; and felony cases.
Municipal Bond Schedule
Citation
Description
Bond Amount
34-46
Wrongs to Minors
$1,500
38-31(a)
Interference to Police Authority
$500
38-31(b)
Interference with a Sheriff’s Deputy
$500
38-31(c)
Failure to Obey Lawful Order
$500
38-32(a)
Resistance to Police authority
$500
38-32(b)
Resistance to Sheriff authority
$500
38-37
Escape
$1,500
38-43
Violation of Restraining Order
Court Appearance Required
38-93
Assault
$500
38-93.1
Public Fighting
$100
38-94
Unlawful Acts Around Schools (any related charges)
$500
38-114(b)
Harassment Near Health Care Facility
$500
38-117(a)
Concealed Weapon
$1,500
Second or More Offenses
Court Appearance Required
38-117(b)
Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon
$1,500
Second or More Offenses
Court Appearance Required
38-117(c)
Flourishing A Weapon
$1,500
Second or More Offenses
Court Appearance Required
38-121
Discharging/Firing a Weapon-Firearms
$500
38-126 (b), (c) or (d)
Incendiary Device-Explosive
$1,500
38-130
Assault Weapons
Court Appearance Required
38-157
Unlawful Public Indecency
$500
38-157.1
Indecent Exposure
$500
38-158
Prostitution (any related charges)
$1,000
Second or More Offenses
Court Appearance Required
14-33(f)
Domestic Violence
Court Appearance Required
18-18-406(1)
Possession of Marijuana Under One Ounce
$100
18-18-406(3)
Public Consumption of Marijuana
Court Appearance Required
18-18-428
Possession of drug paraphernalia
$100
Traffic Infractions
No Bond Required
All other Denver Revised Municipal Code violations
$100
54-126
Reckless Driving
$500
54-56
Eluding a Police Officer
$1,000
54-159
Drag Racing
$500
Misdemeanor Bond Schedule
Citation
Description
Bond Amount
All Traffic Offenses except for those listed below.
$100
Petty Offense – Class 1
$100
Petty Offense – Class 2
$100
Class 1
$1,500
Class 2
$750
Class 3
$750
12-47-901(1)(h)(I)
Public Consumption of Alcohol
$100
18-3-206
Menacing
$750
18-3-208
Reckless Endangerment
$750
25-14-208(1)
Owner Allowed Prohibited Smoking
$100
25-14-208(2)
Smoking Prohibited
$100
25-14-103.5
Smoking Prohibited Schools
$100
42-4-1301(6)(a)(III)
DUI
$1,500
42-4-1301(6)(a)(II)
DWAI
$1,000
42-2-138(1)(a)
DUR
$750
42-2-138(1)(d)(I)
DUR due to alcohol-related driving offense
$750
42-2-205
Habitual Offender
$500
42-4-1409
NPOI
$750
42-4-1602
Hit & Run
$750
42-4-1402
Careless Driving
$200
42-20-201
Hazardous Material – Transport w/o permit
$200
42-20-305
Hazardous Material – Deviate from route
$200
18-6-801
Domestic Violence
Court Appearance Required
18-6-803.5
Violation of Restraining Order-DV
Court Appearance Required
18-6-401
Wrongs to Children
Court Appearance Required
Felony Bond Schedule
Citation
Description
Bond Amount
Class 1
No Bond
Class 2
$100,000
Class 3
$10,000
Class 4
$5,000
Class 5
$5,000
Class 6
$2,000
Specific Offenses – Regardless of Class
16-13-303(1)(b)
16-13-303(1)(c)
16-13-303(1)(d)
16-13-303(1)(f)
16-13-303(1)(g)
16-13-303(1)(h)
16-13-303(1)(i)
16-13-303(1)(j)
16-13-303(1)(k)
Public Nuisance – Gambling
“” Controlled Substance
“” By Statute
“” Drug Paraphernalia
“” Child Prostitution
“” Sex Exploitation
“” Commission of Felony
“” Eluding
“” Hit and Run
$10,000
18-4-301
Aggravated Robbery
$50,000
18-4-102
Arson
$50,000
18-6-401
Child Abuse with Bodily Injury
$50,000
18-8-208
Escape
$50,000
18-4-202
1st Degree Burglary of Building (Drugs) or With Assault, Menacing or Weapon Involved
$50,000
18-3-402(1)(h)
Sexual Assault on Helpless
$50,000
18-3-402(4)(a)-(d)
Sexual Assault force, violence, threat
$50,000
18-3-405(2)(a)-(d)
Sexual Assault on a Child
$50,000
18-3-405.3
Sexual Assault on a Child-Position of Trust
$50,000
18-3-205
Vehicular Assault
$50,000
18-3-105
Deadly Weapon Involved With Criminally Negligent Homicide
$50,000
18-3-104
Deadly Weapon Involved with Manslaughter
$50,000
18-3-203(b)or(d)
Deadly Weapon Involved with 2ndDegree Assault
$50,000
18-3-302(4)(a)(II)
Deadly Weapon Involved with Kidnapping
$50,000
18-3-206(a)or(b)
Deadly Weapon Involved with Menacing
$50,000
18-18-412.5
Manufacture of Controlled Substances
$30,000
16-4-103(1)
Schedule I and II Controlled Substances
$50,000
Look at my edited post, sirs.... Those would be the bond amounts that are set by the City and County of Denver... The Bond amounts are set by CRIME without any consideration given to the person committing the crime.
Judges aren't around at 2am to set bail. Thus, bail is set by the schedule of bonds. The amount can be increased or decreased by a judge. The bond amount that you are held under when first arrested is a "temporary" bond that is subject to modification by a judge. IF you pay the $50,000 and your bond is reduced, the difference is given back. If you pay the $50,000 and they increase your bond, you are arrested again and held until the remaining amount is paid.
If you want to argue how its done, I suggest you write a letter.
AND! In regards to your two comments.... Neither one of you must understand The Constitution... Mostly you, DavieD, since you don't even have enough respect for it to capitalize it correctly.
I've been saying that for ages....
Meh. To each their own. Like I said, don't like it? Write a letter.
If you want to be a bitch that's your business, not mine. I'm not one to say if it hurt or not... You're the one getting hit in your comment, not me.
For the love of fuck, bro... When you post your worthless banter, please do it correctly so you sound more intelligent. Right now, both your posts make you look stupid. Fix them, then maybe I'll take you seriously. For the record, this has NOTHING to do with the old man getting arrested. This have everything to do with your lack of ability to form a cognitive sentence.
Problem solved. Now you don't look like a bitch.
Don't be a dumbass that makes comments about a system that you know nothing about being broken and there will be no argument.
I'm not defending the police, the system, or anything else. I'm simply explaining WHY his bond was set at what it was. You're the one rambling off about how it should be. If you think your way is better, write a letter.
Here ya go, Ashton... I've quoted every post I've made in this thread up until you started the personal attacks... No where in there did I say I was afraid of the 80 year old man... No where in there did I defend the police action taken against the 80 year old man...
I stated how the Bond Schedule works, which explained why there was a $50,000 bond.
I said I believe that it actually is the police's job to "look for a crime".
And I said that if DavieD doesn't like the way the Bond Schedule works he should write a letter...
Anything else you want me to look up for you?
Bed time....hey anyone know a good lullaby?
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 01:32
I don't know how you quote you quoting my other quotes. But you think I'm scary?Awwwwwwwww. Bitch.
Also it's always been a personal attack because I think you're a bitch. Bitch.
There you go again.. Saying shit that isn't true.. I didn't say you were scary.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 01:33
Bed time....hey anyone know a good lullaby?
Ronco infomercials... Those things knock me out faster than anything.
10mm-man
01-05-2013, 01:35
http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Ashton http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?p=835137#post835137)
I don't know how you quote you quoting my other quotes. But you think I'm scary?Awwwwwwwww. Bitch.
Also it's always been a personal attack because I think you're a bitch. Bitch.
http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0 http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?p=834941#post834941)
Meh. To each their own. Like I said, don't like it? Write a letter.
[handbags]
Ronco infomercials... Those things knock me out faster than anything.
I'm zzzzzzzzing already......
Other quote I don't know how to add: http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/blue/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by DavieD55 http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/blue/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?p=834931#post834931)Big whoop dee doo daw... I wouldn't have even wrote this guy a ticket, even if he hit me with his cane.
Meh. To each their own. Like I said, don't like it? Write a letter.
Some old fuck hits you with a cane. You probably didn't even feel it. You try to defend a position that someone "hit you" based upon the legal system which values "emergency personnel" as govt entities that enforce said laws enacted by "legal entities" WHEN IN REALITY A OLD GUY HIT YOU WITH HIS CAIN BECAUSE YOU TRIED TO TAKE SOMETHING THAT WAS HIS... AND HE LIKELY DOESN'T HAVE MUCH LEFT BESIDES HIS LIFE... Oh yeah. He can't walk without a walker, is on 28 diff meds from seizure meds to high blood pressure meds and YOU'RE PRESSING CHARGES AGAINST HIM? You're being a bitch. Bitch.
There you go again.. Saying shit that isn't true.. I didn't say you were scary.
I really hope you find out sooner rather then later that what you don't say but imply is just as damning as what you actually say. In an interrogation not saying something is just as bad as confessing an act. People hate people who try to get off of technicalities ;)
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 01:46
Other quote I don't know how to add: http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/blue/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by DavieD55http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/blue/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?p=834931#post834931)Big whoop dee doo daw... I wouldn't have even wrote this guy a ticket, even if he hit me with his cane.
Some old fuck hits you with a cane. You probably didn't even feel it. You try to defend a position that someone "hit you" based upon the legal system which values "emergency personnel" as govt entities that enforce said laws enacted by "legal entities" WHEN IN REALITY A OLD GUY HIT YOU WITH HIS CAIN BECAUSE YOU TRIED TO TAKE SOMETHING THAT WAS HIS... AND HE LIKELY DOESN'T HAVE MUCH LEFT BESIDES HIS LIFE... Oh yeah. He can't walk without a walker, is on 28 diff meds from seizure meds to high blood pressure meds and YOU'RE PRESSING CHARGES AGAINST HIM? You're being a bitch. Bitch.
When I said, "Meh. To each his own. Like I said, don't like it? Write a letter." I was NOT agreeing with the cop.
See, this is where you fail to use logic and reason when you read a post...
"Meh. To each his own." This simply means: You would choose not to ticket the guy. The cop chose to ticket him. To each his own.
This has NOTHING to do with my views, Mr. Ashton. I have not stated my views on this matter because I have none. I HAVE NO DOG IN THIS FIGHT.
"Like I said, don't like it? Write a letter." This goes back to my previous comment about the Bond Schedule. If DavieD doesn't like it, which is clear that he doesn't, he should write a letter suggesting his way of doing it.
Now that I've broken down the entire thread for you like a 1st grade teacher has to do.... Is there anything else you'd like for me to explain to you? Maybe why grass is green or why the sky is blue?
DavieD55
01-05-2013, 01:47
Other quote I don't know how to add: http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/blue/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by DavieD55http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/blue/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?p=834931#post834931)Big whoop dee doo daw... I wouldn't have even wrote this guy a ticket, even if he hit me with his cane.
Some old fuck hits you with a cane. You probably didn't even feel it. You try to defend a position that someone "hit you" based upon the legal system which values "emergency personnel" as govt entities that enforce said laws enacted by "legal entities" WHEN IN REALITY A OLD GUY HIT YOU WITH HIS CAIN BECAUSE YOU TRIED TO TAKE SOMETHING THAT WAS HIS... AND HE LIKELY DOESN'T HAVE MUCH LEFT BESIDES HIS LIFE... Oh yeah. He can't walk without a walker, is on 28 diff meds from seizure meds to high blood pressure meds and YOU'RE PRESSING CHARGES AGAINST HIM? You're being a bitch. Bitch.
Dude just let it go. Someone obviously forgot to take their Ritalin today.
Confirm or deny you said this:
You can call me a bitch all you want. It won't hurt my feelings much. I've been called worse by people that are scarier than you'll ever be.
The implication of such vocabulary means that subconsciously you're scared in one way or another whether it be personally or professionally. Also, the fact that you tried to "make an evil less evil" implies that you haven't really been scared by others. However, the threat of such implications scare you.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 01:50
I really hope you find out sooner rather then later that what you don't say but imply is just as damning as what you actually say. In an interrogation not saying something is just as bad as confessing an act. People hate people who try to get off of technicalities ;)
Ya know what I've come to realize, listening to you ramble... You're just like the political figures everyone keeps talking about writing a letter to... Your views are so closed minded that no amount of logic or reason behind something can get through to you... Now I understand the frustration others have when they get mindless, rambling, stock letters back from people in office... Thank you, for enlightening me.
When I said, "Meh. To each his own. Like I said, don't like it? Write a letter." I was NOT agreeing with the cop.
See, this is where you fail to use logic and reason when you read a post...
"Meh. To each his own." This simply means: You would choose not to ticket the guy. The cop chose to ticket him. To each his own.
This has NOTHING to do with my views, Mr. Ashton. I have not stated my views on this matter because I have none. I HAVE NO DOG IN THIS FIGHT.
"Like I said, don't like it? Write a letter." This goes back to my previous comment about the Bond Schedule. If DavieD doesn't like it, which is clear that he doesn't, he should write a letter suggesting his way of doing it.
Now that I've broken down the entire thread for you like a 1st grade teacher has to do.... Is there anything else you'd like for me to explain to you? Maybe why grass is green or why the sky is blue?
Dude really? I'm willing to bury the hatchet over a stupid convo. But EVERYONE has views on everything and your posts reflect your views. Lets not be ridiculous?
Ya know what I've come to realize, listening to you ramble... You're just like the political figures everyone keeps talking about writing a letter to... Your views are so closed minded that no amount of logic or reason behind something can get through to you... Now I understand the frustration others have when they get mindless, rambling, stock letters back from people in office... Thank you, for enlightening me.
You mean the letters you will never receieve because you mean nothing?
10mm-man
01-05-2013, 01:54
[obama] [handbags][bad-banana][Neene1][pick-me][Coffee]
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 01:57
Confirm or deny you said this:
You can call me a bitch all you want. It won't hurt my feelings much. I've been called worse by people that are scarier than you'll ever be.
The implication of such vocabulary means that subconsciously you're scared in one way or another whether it be personally or professionally. Also, the fact that you tried to "make an evil less evil" implies that you haven't really been scared by others. However, the threat of such implications scare you.
I said it. Your personal attacks and name calling don't bother me. And I have been called worse than a bitch by people that are "scarier" than you will will ever be to me.
To say that I have never been scared of another person would be a lie. For anyone to say such would be a lie. If you're not "scared" you're not doing it right. Scared is the wrong word to use in this context as when I say it there is no real "fear" involved but more of an awareness.
I'm not scared of you personally or professionally. My professional record, as it were, speaks for itself. I have never held any bias against any person, for any reason, and I never will. As far as I'm concerned we're all human and we're all stuck on this big rock together. So to imply that I am bias in some way is nothing more than a flat out lie.
I should thank you, though... You've really helped me along in terms of post count. Thank you.
I said it. Your personal attacks and name calling don't bother me. And I have been called worse than a bitch by people that are "scarier" than you will will ever be to me.
To say that I have never been scared of another person would be a lie. For anyone to say such would be a lie. If you're not "scared" you're not doing it right. Scared is the wrong word to use in this context as when I say it there is no real "fear" involved but more of an awareness.
I'm not scared of you personally or professionally. My professional record, as it were, speaks for itself. I have never held any bias against any person, for any reason, and I never will. As far as I'm concerned we're all human and we're all stuck on this big rock together. So to imply that I am bias in some way is nothing more than a flat out lie.
I should thank you, though... You've really helped me along in terms of post count. Thank you.
You do realize this is the internet right?....?
10mm-man
01-05-2013, 02:01
I should thank you, though... You've really helped me along in terms of post count. Thank you.
I would like to thank the two of you for an entertaining thread!! And for boosting my count as well!! [Score]
Ok I'm really going to bed. But I feel I need to add an extra bitch. Bitch. Night all.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 02:03
Dude really? I'm willing to bury the hatchet over a stupid convo. But EVERYONE has views on everything and your posts reflect your views. Lets not be ridiculous?
Apparently you're not, as you continue to argue when you've been proven wrong more than once.
I have no views on this matter. Really. I don't.
An 85 year old man was breaking the law. A (whatever you want to call him) contacted him because of that and took some form of action. 85 year old man hit (Whatever you want to call him) with a cane. 85 year old man was arrested and is being held on $50,000 bond...
Nearly every post I've made in this thread has been directed towards the bond schedule and NOT the actual incident. The other posts were about cops looking for crime, volunteer LE being a bad idea, and Ronco infomercials.
You mean the letters you will never receieve because you mean nothing?
I don't want the letters. I never said I did. I just told DavieD to write one to the appropriate person in regards to him being able to do it better.
Your next post will be #600. Good job! [Beer]
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 02:04
You do realize this is the internet right?....?
Yes. I do. Which is why I find it so amusing... You've helped me kill over an hour of time. Thanks!
10mm-man
01-05-2013, 02:05
Your next post will be #600. Good job! [Beer]
602
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 02:07
602
And you're at 1,008! You're getting there, buddy!
10mm-man
01-05-2013, 02:08
And you're at 1,008! You're getting there, buddy!
We can't all kill hours on here! Shouldn't you be torturing some Mexican inmates........... ha!
Thanks for helping me get over 1000... Don't forget I crashed and lost a lot too. Would have made you look like a newb!
DavieD55
01-05-2013, 03:18
Don't be a dumbass that makes comments about a system that you know nothing about being broken and there will be no argument.
I'm not defending the police, the system, or anything else. I'm simply explaining WHY his bond was set at what it was. You're the one rambling off about how it should be. If you think your way is better, write a letter.
You're just being a doltish [ahole]. This particular case makes certain people look bad. If you disagree that is fine but dont jump all over me because you're out to prove something. You're in no way an expert. You watch what happens with this case.
JM Ver. 2.0
01-05-2013, 03:23
You're just being a doltish [ahole]. This particular case makes certain people look bad. If you disagree that is fine but dont jump all over me because you're out to prove something. You're in no way an expert. You watch what happens with this case.
Like I said... No view in regards to the case. How it turns out is how it turns out. I don't agree nor disagree as to it making people look bad. My comments were simply in regards to why the bond was what it was...
BushMasterBoy
01-05-2013, 14:53
Effing hilarious...
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22314766/85-year-old-suspect-cane-assault-released-2 (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22314766/85-year-old-suspect-cane-assault-released-2)
OneGuy67
01-05-2013, 16:07
Wow...no ban hammer? We've seen less that have had the thread locked and the ban hammer swung!
Wow...no ban hammer? We've seen less that have had the thread locked and the ban hammer swung!awe come on lets see how far it gets before you [Police]set em straight on the facts of the law and blasterbob[blaster] comes to kick everyone's ass [handbags] [Coffee]
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