This could make things interesting

[BPTactical]

Found this over on Barfcom, thought I would leave it here for discussion:

http://m.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-weighs-broad-gun-control-agenda-in-wake-of-newtown-shootings/2013/01/05/d281efe0-5682-11e2-bf3e-76c0a789346f_story.html



"John has a long mustache"
[Bang]

[airborneranger]

I read this today in the Stars and Stripes. I almost lost my breakfast.

[Tinelement]

one source said could include rallying support from Wal-Mart and other gun retailers for measures that would benefit their businesses.

Should be an easy sell. Especially with some of the business already on the band wagon.

[cofi]

boy this is really starting to look bad......

[TS12000]

And you expected something different?

[spyder]

I am reminded of a few quotes every time I read shit like this...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable rights; that among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness"
~Declaration of Independence as originally written by Thomas Jefferson 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:315

”And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms….The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants”
~Thomas Jefferson

”This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it.”
~Abraham Lincoln

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
~Thomas Jefferson (quoting Cesare Beccaria)

“You won’t get gun control by disarming law-abiding citizens. There’s only one way to get real gun control: Disarm the thugs and the criminals, lock them up and if you don’t actually throw away the key, at least lose it for a long time… It’s a nasty truth, but those who seek to inflict harm are not fazed by gun controllers. I happen to know this from personal experience.”
~Ronald Reagan

”This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!”
~Adolph Hitler, 1935, on The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany

And lost, but certainly not least...

”A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual, and emotional maturity.”
~Sigmund Freud

[alxone]

"John has a long mustache"
[Bang]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePzwg0LyYL0

[hollohas]

Here's what scares me from this article...


Once Obama’s proposals are set, he plans to lead a public-relations offensive to generate popular support.

^If there is one thing these f'ers are good at, it's PR. Every PR offensive they go on is successful...in part because the media loves these tools.


In addition to potential legislative proposals, Biden’s group has expanded its focus to include measures that would not need congressional approval and could be quickly implemented by executive action...

^No comment necessary.

And...


...is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders...

Who are these "key law enforcement leaders"? Local PD's, State agencies, Federal agencies? My guess is the feds and that is a scary thought...

[centrarchidae]

Not necessarily federal. High-profile local chiefs usually. The former-NYPD-assclown who's now Chicago's chief, Gerry McCarthy, is a prime example, although a few others (William Bratton, Terrance Gainer, etc.) also crop up.

Fun Fact: CPD Chief GMac, when he was employed at NYPD in some sort of command role, got drunk and shot out a streetlight. No wonder he doesn't think anybody else can be trusted with guns, since obviously he can't.




Who are these "key law enforcement leaders"? Local PD's, State agencies, Federal agencies? My guess is the feds and that is a scary thought...

[Sharpienads]

Who are these "key law enforcement leaders"? Local PD's, State agencies, Federal agencies? My guess is the feds and that is a scary thought...

That's what I want to know as well. As far as I'm concerned, just about the only key law enforcement leader I *should* be concerned about is Sheriff Maketa.

[theGinsue]

Is it just me, or does this administration seem hell-bent on taking this country into a civil war?

[Uberjager]

"Obama’s advisers have calculated that the longer they wait, the more distance there is from the Newtown massacre and the greater the risk that the bipartisan political will to tackle gun violence will dissipate."

[Great-Kazoo]

1930's & 40's America is horrified when Hitlers germany ask children to report on their neighbors
Late 1940's & 50's, America is horrified when Russia ask their children to report on the neighbors
2nd millennium, America ask it's children to report on their neighbors.

C coincidence
Or
C Conspiracy

[Clint45]

Is it just me, or does this administration seem hell-bent on taking this country into a civil war?

Civil war implies two somewhat equally matched sides. On other continents sometimes the military overthrows the existing government, or there are tribal warlords who have access to heavy weapons and armor with thousands of troops.

No states have the balls to secede. The military is tightly controlled. All the militia groups in this country are infiltrated by the feds and filled with inbred dumbasses.

There will be no "civil war." There will be no "revolution." The few sporadic uprisings will be quelled very quickly and efficiently with gas, gunships, and media blackout.

The only thing that can save this country is a fucking asteroid strike. We have not one, but TWO, comets passing close to the Earth later this year. Keep your fingers crossed and hope one hits the East Coast.

[BPTactical]

Is it just me, or does this administration seem hell-bent on taking this country into a civil war?

And the light has shone........

I think this is by design, an easy way to suspend the Constitution and impose martial law.
The King has planned his subjects.
But the King underestimates his subjects.

Gonna get worse before it gets better.

[twitchyfinger]

Is it just me, or does this administration seem hell-bent on taking this country into a civil war?

My thoughts and fears exactly! Long but interesting insight and information.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL63OFIdIIM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MAVGkU7_OQ4

[Fmedges]

Civil war implies two somewhat equally matched sides. On other continents sometimes the military overthrows the existing government, or there are tribal warlords who have access to heavy weapons and armor with thousands of troops.

No states have the balls to secede. The military is tightly controlled. All the militia groups in this country are infiltrated by the feds and filled with inbred dumbasses.

There will be no "civil war." There will be no "revolution." The few sporadic uprisings will be quelled very quickly and efficiently with gas, gunships, and media blackout.

The only thing that can save this country is a fucking asteroid strike. We have not one, but TWO, comets passing close to the Earth later this year. Keep your fingers crossed and hope one hits the East Coast.

I disagree. I think there are more people who wouldn't go along with this than you realize, LE and mil included. Not only is it the job of the mil to follow and protect the constitution, but all LE as well and of course the citizens. At least the LE and mil would fracture and at best the mil would march on Washington.

[GilpinGuy]

And the light has shone........

I think this is by design, an easy way to suspend the Constitution and impose martial law.
The King has planned his subjects.
But the King underestimates his subjects.

Gonna get worse before it gets better.

I tell you what, I have heard some folks I know who nobody would think of as "gun nuts" at all just blow up (in the pro-gun sense) when the topic of gun bans has come up. I love it. It's not a country wide sample, I know.

I think the founders were right on with the 2A. Sadly, and hopefully not, some of us may see why it was put in there to begin with.

As far as "the people vs. the military" or "the people vs. law enforcement"....I really do struggle with this a bit. But I feel in the end (maybe after a while of torturous martial law, atrocities by the current Admin., etc.) that the military and local LE would start saying "HELL NO!" and there would be a serious backlash.

All of the polls indicate a strong "right leaning" military for sure. I can't see our guys doing mass political killings and such without an outright rebellion first, but maybe I'm naive and just a product of the Red Dawn generation.

[Clint45]

I disagree. I think there are more people who wouldn't go along with this than you realize, LE and mil included. Not only is it the job of the mil to follow and protect the constitution, but all LE as well and of course the citizens. At least the LE and mil would fracture and at best the mil would march on Washington.

I truly hope I am wrong and you are right . . . but I don't see it happening. They'll tell the cops they'll lose their badges and pensions and go to prison. They'll tell the soldiers they'll be executed or at the very least get sent to federal prison followed by a dishonorable discharge. I'm sure a few will make a stand . . . but it will be very few and largely ineffectual. How would they organize and communicate? Social networking sites? Twitter? Email? Cell phone texts? SIGINT will be intercepted. NSA has that covered. I do not see any sort of coup or revolt being successful given our dependence on computers and electronic gadgetry, and people's unwillingness to risk losing their jobs and pensions.

[Fmedges]

I truly hope I am wrong and you are right . . . but I don't see it happening. They'll tell the cops they'll lose their badges and pensions and go to prison. They'll tell the soldiers they'll be executed or at the very least get sent to federal prison followed by a dishonorable discharge. I'm sure a few will make a stand . . . but it will be very few and largely ineffectual. How would they organize and communicate? Social networking sites? Twitter? Email? Cell phone texts? SIGINT will be intercepted. NSA has that covered. I do not see any sort of coup or revolt being successful given our dependence on computers and electronic gadgetry, and people's unwillingness to risk losing their jobs and pensions.

I'd rather not say what I think about communications, but instead of thinking about one huge organized effort, think more in terms of thousands of independent groups of people with the same goal.

[GilpinGuy]

I'd rather not say what I think about communications, but instead of thinking about one huge organized effort, think more in terms of thousands of independent groups of people with the same goal.

"Wolverines!" [Coffee]

[Todd_the_'Stache]

Admittedly I have a tendency to be a bit of an optomist, but I think it sounds like our lefty/fascist brethern are about to overplay their political hand. In their rush to get this through, and they rush because they know that time isn't their friend on this, they are forgetting about their slowly boil the frog approach. They are going for a shoot the moon plan and this will cause the so called moderates of their side to fear for their jobs at the next election. Because those so called moderates have longer memories that about half our population and they know what happened after the 94 ban. This will cause their plan to take too long and they will fumble the ball. Or, at least I hope so..... As far as the civil war question goes, such a confiscation would be met with violence. Have a look at these recent middle eastern riots, and those folks don't even know how to shoot worth a crap. So buck up my friends the lefty/fascists must know that one way or another this doesn't end up in their favor.

[BPTactical]

I'd rather not say what I think about communications, but instead of thinking about one huge organized effort, think more in terms of thousands of independent groups of people with the same goal.

^^^Seems to be pretty effective in places like Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.

I have asked a few LE what they would do in the event the Lieutenant walks into morning role with a stack of 4473's and says "go get em".
Every one to a man has said that is the day the badge gets tossed on the desk for the following reasons:
A- it would be an unconstitutional order
B- it would be a suicide mission
C- that is the day they need to be home and protect their own families
Remember what one Marine said on CNN recently: "Unconstitutional laws are not laws"
I don't think LE and .Mil will be what we worry about.

But 40 billion rounds of .gov is a bit worrisome.....

"The chair is against the wall"

[HoneyBadger]

I truly hope I am wrong and you are right . . . but I don't see it happening. They'll tell the cops they'll lose their badges and pensions and go to prison. They'll tell the soldiers they'll be executed or at the very least get sent to federal prison followed by a dishonorable discharge. I'm sure a few will make a stand . . . but it will be very few and largely ineffectual. How would they organize and communicate? Social networking sites? Twitter? Email? Cell phone texts? SIGINT will be intercepted. NSA has that covered. I do not see any sort of coup or revolt being successful given our dependence on computers and electronic gadgetry, and people's unwillingness to risk losing their jobs and pensions.


I completely agree here. A lot of the military force is comprised of young "kids" who are dirt poor and have nowhere else to turn. They rely on the benefits more than the paycheck and the thought of those benefits going away is very disheartening to a generation that has never had anything taken away from them. I know there are groups like the OathKeepers, but their only connection and method to communicate is through the internet, which would surely be one of the first things to be shut down. We rely far too heavily on modern communications, and when the internet and phones can all be monitored and controlled, that leaves any sort of resistance at such an astronomical disadvantage... The only way it would be close to a fair fight is if everyone lost the communication abilities and expensive military technologies with something like an EMP. ..But an EMP is one thing I truly hope I never live to see.

[roberth]

Possibilities include changes to federal mental-health programs and modernization of gun-tracking efforts by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

More bureaucracy, just what every burgeoning dictatorship needs.


Originally posted by BPTactical -
I have asked a few LE what they would do in the event the Lieutenant walks into morning role with a stack of 4473's and says "go get em".
Every one to a man has said that is the day the badge gets tossed on the desk for the following reasons:
A- it would be an unconstitutional order
B- it would be a suicide mission
C- that is the day they need to be home and protect their own families
Remember what one Marine said on CNN recently: "Unconstitutional laws are not laws"
I don't think LE and .Mil will be what we worry about.

I have heard the same thing albeit 3rd hand about some local LEO. I posted much the same thing here: http://www.ar-15.co/threads/80289-What-will-you-do/page3


Originally posted on 1/6/2013 by roberth

2. I do not believe that the majority of people who the government would prefer to use in a confiscation will participate in the confiscation. They'll refuse their orders and go home because they know confiscation is against the constitution and they'll put their own families and friends ahead of what the government wants them to do.

From the SurvivalBlog
Why Civilian Disarmament in the U.S. is Just a Statist Fantasy (http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/01/why-civilian-disarmament-in-the-us-is-just-a-statist-fantasy.html) - http://www.survivalblog.com/
Veteran blogger and Appleseed program shooting instructor Bob Owens (http://www.bob-owens.com/2013/01/what-youll-see-in-the-rebellion-a-nation-of-sarajevos/) recently summarized the mathematics of rebellion, quite succinctly: "A nation with just 800,000 law enforcement officers and 3 million active and reserve military personal cannot easily defeat and enslave a free people armed with 300 million firearms, even if large numbers of the police and military didn’t walk away or switch sides to follow their oath to the Constitution instead of any given leader, as many assuredly will."

[brokenscout]

Then they will have the reason they need to shut this Country down. He said he wanted "Change" , and its the only way to disarm the U.S.A.
Is it just me, or does this administration seem hell-bent on taking this country into a civil war?

[brokenscout]

http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/10/19/aw-cute-obama%E2%80%99s-civilian-army-femacorps-just-graduated-it%E2%80%99s-first-class/

[asmo]

There wasn't a civil war/violence against the gubment over gun bans/registration in 1934, 1968, or 1994.. Why would anyone reasonibly expect one now?

[Ghosty]

http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/10/19/aw-cute-obama%E2%80%99s-civilian-army-femacorps-just-graduated-it%E2%80%99s-first-class/
Yeah, not sure what the purpose of this is beyond what the National Guard already does for disaster relief. Interesting to watch how and if it progresses...

[Zundfolge]

"John has a long mustache"
[Bang]


Seen a lot of references to that the last couple days ... I'm hoping it means something :p

[two shoes]

"The chair is against the wall"
I was just going to post this Bert....

[asmo]

Yeah, not sure what the purpose of this is beyond what the National Guard already does for disaster relief. Interesting to watch how and if it progresses...

Its federally funded and at the discretion of the federal govt. vs. the individual states.

[hollohas]

And the light has shone........

I think this is by design, an easy way to suspend the Constitution and impose martial law.
The King has planned his subjects.
But the King underestimates his subjects.

Gonna get worse before it gets better.

^ This. It's by design.

Also, given the administrations tendency to use the media to it's advantage, if the bans pass as proposed, I expect the first thing we'll see are event's similar to Waco and Ruby Ridge played out on TV. They will single out some group and use them to make the case that people who refuse to follow the new laws are wacko militants. They won't go after every gun owner, but they will find one or two extreme cases to make examples of.

Again, IF the bans are passed, they will use a PR and media campaign to add a little more "incentive" for people to voluntarily comply. That would sway the minds of a good chunk of gun owners who were on the fence so to speak.

I have no doubt a ban of some sort will pass, unfortunately they have strong support from all sides. And it WILL NOT have a sunset clause...they made that mistake already. There really is no good outcome.

-People comply = Constitution dead.
-People don't comply peacefully = Good people become criminals. People loose their savings in court. People go to jail after stopping a home invasion with an un-registered 15 round pistol.
-People don't comply and fight for their God given right = No problem for the Feds. They can use that to strengthen their anti-gun agenda. People who fight get portrayed as wacko militants by the media which will convince others not to fight the system.

Anyway you shake it, the anti's have stacked the deck. I suspect it will take decades to repeal a ban, if that happens at all.

[Ronin13]

I truly hope I am wrong and you are right . . . but I don't see it happening. They'll tell the cops they'll lose their badges and pensions and go to prison. They'll tell the soldiers they'll be executed or at the very least get sent to federal prison followed by a dishonorable discharge. I'm sure a few will make a stand . . . but it will be very few and largely ineffectual. How would they organize and communicate? Social networking sites? Twitter? Email? Cell phone texts? SIGINT will be intercepted. NSA has that covered. I do not see any sort of coup or revolt being successful given our dependence on computers and electronic gadgetry, and people's unwillingness to risk losing their jobs and pensions.
Not a student of history are you? What happened with the insurgency in Iraq? The best example was what was taught to me by a former SF intel operator at Ft. Huachuca- "They soon realized they were fighting these futuristic warriors who are able to use the most advanced technology the earth has ever seen up to this point, so the insurgents went back in time, did a lot of face-to-face planning and rarely, if ever, used cell phones."

The other thing most don't acknowledge is the fact that LE and mil are just like you and I (ask any of the veterans and LE on here). There is nothing more demoralizing to a military unit than policing their own neighbors. If it happens, you'll see a rift in the ranks of both mil and LE.

[asmo]

Not a student of history are you? What happened with the insurgency in Iraq? The best example was what was taught to me by a former SF intel operator at Ft. Huachuca- "They soon realized they were fighting these futuristic warriors who are able to use the most advanced technology the earth has ever seen up to this point, so the insurgents went back in time, did a lot of face-to-face planning and rarely, if ever, used cell phones."


...and we learned and adapted - we are good at it when the politicians get out of the way. This means its in our playbook now and can be used against whomever. The nice thing is that many of the contractors and support personnel are civilians and know more about the systems than the .mil does.

There is a bigger problem with this theory - our culture is not built around tiny cliches with a custom of secrecy and distrust.

[Clint45]

Admittedly I have a tendency to be a bit of an optomist, but I think it sounds like our lefty/fascist brethern are about to overplay their political hand. In their rush to get this through, and they rush because they know that time isn't their friend on this, they are forgetting about their slowly boil the frog approach. They are going for a shoot the moon plan and this will cause the so called moderates of their side to fear for their jobs at the next election. Because those so called moderates have longer memories that about half our population and they know what happened after the 94 ban. This will cause their plan to take too long and they will fumble the ball. Or, at least I hope so..... As far as the civil war question goes, such a confiscation would be met with violence. Have a look at these recent middle eastern riots, and those folks don't even know how to shoot worth a crap. So buck up my friends the lefty/fascists must know that one way or another this doesn't end up in their favor.

If the conspiracy nutters are right, the most efficient way for .gov to handle this would be to instigate a second crisis. Let me give you one hypothetical scenario.

1. Feinstein Bill passes with minimal concessions. All semi-auto rifles, shotguns, and pistols are banned unless registered -- and you are limited to only one. Expect restrictions on "stockpiling" more than two boxes of ammo (100 rds) as well. .gov knows very well that few people are in full compliance.

2. Economy is collapsing. Instead of confiscating guns now, why not freeze all EBT accounts and .gov entitlements (SSI/SSD)? In EVERY major city, tens of thousands of dirtbags have been dependent on these handouts for generations. This includes most gang members and their families who depend on .gov assistance for rent, utilities, and food. When those EBT cards stop working, at first they will be enraged, then after a few days they will be desperate. Expect to see mobs of hundreds in the streets rioting, looting, burning, and kicking down doors. Most of your ammunition stockpiles will be depleted defending your house and many firearms will be lost or destroyed.

3. Within a month the riots are suppressed. Many gun owners who failed to comply are arrested. Since gang members also used "assault weapons" during the riots, EVEN STRICTER bans are passed.

4. Public assistance is eliminated, but former welfare recipients are offered jobs as "paid volunteers" with groups similar to Conservation Corps, AmeriCorps, Census. Some of these groups would be provided uniforms and limited authority to go to gun owner's homes for the purpose of confirming all firearms are properly registered. Why risk a cop or a soldier when a dirtbag volunteer is willing to do it for a fistful of food stamps and $50 a day (plus whatever confiscated items he can resell on the black market).

5. By the next generation, due to repeated indoctrination on TV and in the schools, guns are considered worse than smoking cigarettes or using meth. All guns will be outlawed, including replicas and toys.

Of course, this is all baseless speculation about a hypothetical dystopian fictional scenario which would never happen here . . .

[sellersm]

Germany anyone?

[Dave]

Nineteen Eighty-Four was supposed to be fiction, not a how-to manual for governments.

[Teufelhund]

I think these are valid scenarios which many fear. Not to be argumentative, as I think your points are cogent; I do feel such fear is unjustified, and here is why:


If the conspiracy nutters are right, the most efficient way for .gov to handle this would be to instigate a second crisis. Let me give you one hypothetical scenario.

1. Feinstein Bill passes with minimal concessions. All semi-auto rifles, shotguns, and pistols are banned unless registered -- and you are limited to only one. Expect restrictions on "stockpiling" more than two boxes of ammo (100 rds) as well. .gov knows very well that few people are in full compliance.
Unconstitutional laws are not valid laws and according to relevant jurisprudence, could just as well never have existed. This is not a democracy; even if 99% of legislators pass said law, it does not invalidate the Second Amendment (the written form of unalienable, inherent rights).

2. Economy is collapsing. Instead of confiscating guns now, why not freeze all EBT accounts and .gov entitlements (SSI/SSD)? In EVERY major city, tens of thousands of dirtbags have been dependent on these handouts for generations. This includes most gang members and their families who depend on .gov assistance for rent, utilities, and food. When those EBT cards stop working, at first they will be enraged, then after a few days they will be desperate. Expect to see mobs of hundreds in the streets rioting, looting, burning, and kicking down doors. Most of your ammunition stockpiles will be depleted defending your house and many firearms will be lost or destroyed.
Lots and lots of Glock mags, full of 9mm and .40, littering the streets. That's all I have to say about that.

3. Within a month the riots are suppressed. Many gun owners who failed to comply are arrested. Since gang members also used "assault weapons" during the riots, EVEN STRICTER bans are passed.
See item #1.

4. Public assistance is eliminated, but former welfare recipients are offered jobs as "paid volunteers" with groups similar to Conservation Corps, AmeriCorps, Census. Some of these groups would be provided uniforms and limited authority to go to gun owner's homes for the purpose of confirming all firearms are properly registered. Why risk a cop or a soldier when a dirtbag volunteer is willing to do it for a fistful of food stamps and $50 a day (plus whatever confiscated items he can resell on the black market).
The word for this is "collaborator." Time to watch Red Dawn again.

5. By the next generation, due to repeated indoctrination on TV and in the schools, guns are considered worse than smoking cigarettes or using meth. All guns will be outlawed, including replicas and toys.
How well is that working to stop the proliferation of cigarettes and meth?

Of course, this is all baseless speculation about a hypothetical dystopian fictional scenario which would never happen here . . .

[Kraven251]

Is it just me, or does this administration seem hell-bent on taking this country into a civil war?

I don't think they believe the people of the country have the will to make that move. Unfortunately, I think they are meaning to test their theory.

[Clint45]

I think these are valid scenarios which many fear. Not to be argumentative, as I think your points are cogent; I do feel such fear is unjustified, and here is why: Unconstitutional laws are not valid laws and according to relevant jurisprudence, could just as well never have existed. This is not a democracy; even if 99% of legislators pass said law, it does not invalidate the Second Amendment (the written form of unalienable, inherent rights).


With all due respect, please consider the state gun laws of: NY and IL. They CLEARLY are in violation of the 2nd Amendment. In fact, "2nd Amendment" is NOT recognized or permitted as a defense to the charge of unlicensed ownership in one's own home. Possession = guilt with zero tolerance, no plea bargaining, and mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines.

NY and IL claim that it is "a reasonable restriction" that does not violate the Constitution to require gun owners to be licensed . . . but they are not "shall issue" states, and in NY permit applications are routinely denied arbitrarily without cause and the decision cannot be appealed and is not subject to review as it is at the sole discretion of the County Court Judge, some of whom do not feel civilians should be allowed to own a handgun, let alone an "assault rifle." If the punishment for non-compliance was simply forfeiture of the unlicensed firearm, a substantial fine, and misdemeanor probation it would be a non-issue . . . but it is a felony, with a lifetime ban on owning firearms and a lifetime bar from many forms of employment.

Clearly in violation of the Constitution . . . yet not only have these laws been on the books for decades, unchallenged by the NRA or other groups, but they get more restrictive every few years.

[Teufelhund]

You're absolutely correct. I honestly can't wrap my mind around any of that. The only way those unconstitutional laws stand is because the governed allow it.

[Fmedges]

You're absolutely correct. I honestly can't wrap my mind around any of that. The only way those unconstitutional laws stand is because the governed allow it.

Very true. When those they swear to uphold the constitution fail to do so this is what happens. We can only hope that they finally act upon what they should have already been doing.

[Clint45]

Very true. When those they swear to uphold the constitution fail to do so this is what happens. We can only hope that they finally act upon what they should have already been doing.

Blowback and backlash will be a bitch, if it happens . . . very real possibility of overturning a lot of existing restrictions. Not likely with this administration in power. We'll need to wait 4 years for that possibility.

[Todd_the_'Stache]

If the conspiracy nutters are right, the most efficient way for .gov to handle this would be to instigate a second crisis. Let me give you one hypothetical scenario.

1. Feinstein Bill passes with minimal concessions. All semi-auto rifles, shotguns, and pistols are banned unless registered -- and you are limited to only one. Expect restrictions on "stockpiling" more than two boxes of ammo (100 rds) as well. .gov knows very well that few people are in full compliance.

2. Economy is collapsing. Instead of confiscating guns now, why not freeze all EBT accounts and .gov entitlements (SSI/SSD)? In EVERY major city, tens of thousands of dirtbags have been dependent on these handouts for generations. This includes most gang members and their families who depend on .gov assistance for rent, utilities, and food. When those EBT cards stop working, at first they will be enraged, then after a few days they will be desperate. Expect to see mobs of hundreds in the streets rioting, looting, burning, and kicking down doors. Most of your ammunition stockpiles will be depleted defending your house and many firearms will be lost or destroyed.

3. Within a month the riots are suppressed. Many gun owners who failed to comply are arrested. Since gang members also used "assault weapons" during the riots, EVEN STRICTER bans are passed.

4. Public assistance is eliminated, but former welfare recipients are offered jobs as "paid volunteers" with groups similar to Conservation Corps, AmeriCorps, Census. Some of these groups would be provided uniforms and limited authority to go to gun owner's homes for the purpose of confirming all firearms are properly registered. Why risk a cop or a soldier when a dirtbag volunteer is willing to do it for a fistful of food stamps and $50 a day (plus whatever confiscated items he can resell on the black market).

5. By the next generation, due to repeated indoctrination on TV and in the schools, guns are considered worse than smoking cigarettes or using meth. All guns will be outlawed, including replicas and toys.

Of course, this is all baseless speculation about a hypothetical dystopian fictional scenario which would never happen here . . .

Not an entirely unrealistic scenario. However, let me throw this into our 'what if' vision; I know of men who were in the military during the Clinton years who were directly asked if they would obey a confiscation order if given. They were asked by a fed. More than half of those men replied, 'under no circumstance'. Now, myself, I was raised by a decorated USMC combat vet who fought in Vietnam. Dad did his very best to plant a certain mindset into me, one that doesn't just hide in my hole. It is ,shall we say, is a tad more aggressive. I'm sure that I'm not the only decent shot with that sort of mindset. So, throw at least half (and I think that is quite a low estimate) of the LE and miltary and a great many folks like us into this ugly scenario. Shake well and ponder the outcome. I can't say for certain what would happen, none of us can. Just ask yourself what are you prepared to do; hide in your house (as in your hypothetical) or get out, co-ordinate with the like minded and get aggresive about saving our republic. Myself, I choose to be optomistic and figure our political adversaries will self destruct, but I still target practice as often as possible.....