Biden meeting with the NRA today

[mosinnagant577]

Any thoughts on where the discussions might lead to?

[blacklabel]

Any thoughts on where the discussions might lead to?

They all laughingly agree that the 2A is for hunting, eat a meal that's more than my monthly salary and then circle jerk.

Sorry, I have no faith in the NRA.

[trlcavscout]

The nra will give him what ever he wants, unless they send norris. The nra isnt known for having a spine.

[Monky]

I've been very very disappointed in them w/ the comments after Newton. Armed guards in every school really? A half retarded lab rat could have come up w/ that plan of action. Perhaps having ideas on mental health reporting would have been way way way more beneficial. They have deep pockets and in 2 weeks could have accomplished quite a bit.. but no. They stood around jerking each other off..

I don't see anything good coming from this meeting.

[asmo]

The NRA isnt sending anyone important (and neither is the Biden comission) -- since both sides know its bullshit. Just a checkbox to say "we met with all sides". Nothing positive (or negative) will come from this. Its just a PR stunt.

[DD977GM2]

That douchebag probably wont have a clue as to where he is, and that is the scary part
is someone with the ineptitude has oour freedoms in his hands

[fail]

[thumb down1]

[Bang]

[Teufelhund]

They all laughingly agree that the 2A is for hunting, eat a meal that's more than my monthly salary and then circle jerk.

Sorry, I have no faith in the NRA.

I lol'd. But it's really not funny because it's probably true.

[Marlin]

I picture both sides, sitting there with hands over ears, screaming "La,la,la,la,la". Then coming out and saying, "Great strides were made."

[Ronin13]

I dunno, but I do know that my membership hangs in the balance... If things don't go the way they should (for the NRA, keeping in mind that line "Shall not be infringed") I'll be no longer a member of that organization and will tell them very sternly.

[Trigger]

I imagine something to the effect of
"Hey bob!"
"Hey John! how's the kids? I heard billy just got an A in science."
bob - "oh you know, billy has been doing pretty well in that subject lately. Speaking of which how is your family?"
John - "well the wife just went to school for taxes and the little ones are growing up so fast I cant believe it."
Bob - "So what do you say on this whole gun thing?"
John - "It's a bunch of BS lets get some coffee and call it a day."

[Inconel710]

I imagined it going along these lines:

Biden - I hate you f'in guys.
NRA - We hate you too.
Biden - Great meeting, lets don't do this again sometime!

The End

[Teufelhund]

I dunno, but I do know that my membership hangs in the balance... If things don't go the way they should (for the NRA, keeping in mind that line "Shall not be infringed") I'll be no longer a member of that organization and will tell them very sternly.

Ditto. My membership is up for renewal next month. As I've said before, we can't afford to be divided amongst ourselves right now, so I'll continue to contribute to their lobby efforts. One of our more knowledgeable members pointed out recently membership dues cannot be used for lobby purposes (I didn't know that), so while I just bought some t-shirts and other nonsense from them (proceeds go to lobby efforts), I may not be renewing my membership.

[brokenscout]

YEp,lol
I imagined it going along these lines:

Biden - I hate you f'in guys.
NRA - We hate you too.
Biden - Great meeting, lets don't do this again sometime!

The End

[Dave_L]

I heard Walmart reps were asked to attend also? Can anyone confirm that?

[bside303]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBCQXWMOqV4

Don't buy that malarkey!

[O2HeN2]

We can always hope they'd send Dave Kopel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Kopel). Seriously. Biden wouldn't listen to a thing he says, but we'd be well represented.

O2

[BuffCyclist]

Sounds like high capacity magazine bans, universal background checks (whatever the F that means) and allowing federal agencies to do more research on gun violence are at the top of Biden's agenda.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/10/biden-meets-with-nra-faces-pushback-on-hill-over-executive-order-gun-control/

[asmo]

We can always hope they'd send Dave Kopel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Kopel). Seriously. Biden wouldn't listen to a thing he says, but we'd be well represented.

Wouldn't that be the day.. Have Kopel and John Lott represent us. ;)

[Ronin13]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBCQXWMOqV4

Don't buy that malarkey!
I thought about this when BHO appointed JoeBi to that "committee"- uh someone flip flopping? And didn't Joe criticize Romney for flip flopping?

[Kraven251]

Sounds like high capacity magazine bans, universal background checks (whatever the F that means) and allowing federal agencies to do more research on gun violence are at the top of Biden's agenda.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/10/biden-meets-with-nra-faces-pushback-on-hill-over-executive-order-gun-control/

And as much as a high-cap mag ban would be to have to deal with, as others have said there are already millions of high-cap mags out there so would it really be that bad? I mean, sure, its stealing a freedom that we currently have, but it beats an AWB or mandatory registering of EBRs as NFA items.

Don't give an inch. Businesses like Magpul etc. would take a huge hit. If "high-cap" mags become flat out illegal, what do you do then... They will take everything we as a country will let them take. I want them to prove to me without a reasonable doubt that a ban on their definition of "high-cap" magazines would change anything, because we all know it won't change a damned thing.

[BuffCyclist]

Don't give an inch. Businesses like Magpul etc. would take a huge hit. If "high-cap" mags become flat out illegal, what do you do then... They will take everything we as a country will let them take. I want them to prove to me without a reasonable doubt that a ban on their definition of "high-cap" magazines would change anything, because we all know it won't change a damned thing.

I'm not saying that I'm for a high-cap mag ban, just saying that it really beats the alternative. Its still a hit to our freedom and is another piece of legislature that would be better served as TP.

I continue to write my reps and am hoping that things either fizzle out in the end and nothing happens, or the fewest amount of our liberties are stolen.

[Clay Turner]

Statement From the National Rifle Association of America Regarding Today's White House Task Force Meeting

Posted on January 10, 2013

Fairfax, Va. – The National Rifle Association of America is made up of over 4 million moms and dads, daughters and sons, who are involved in the national conversation about how to prevent a tragedy like Newtown from ever happening again. We attended today's White House meeting to discuss how to keep our children safe and were prepared to have a meaningful conversation about school safety, mental health issues, the marketing of violence to our kids and the collapse of federal prosecutions of violent criminals.

We were disappointed with how little this meeting had to do with keeping our children safe and how much it had to do with an agenda to attack the Second Amendment. While claiming that no policy proposals would be “prejudged,” this Task Force spent most of its time on proposed restrictions on lawful firearms owners - honest, taxpaying, hardworking Americans. It is unfortunate that this Administration continues to insist on pushing failed solutions to our nation's most pressing problems. We will not allow law-abiding gun owners to be blamed for the acts of criminals and madmen. Instead, we will now take our commitment and meaningful contributions to members of congress of both parties who are interested in having an honest conversation about what works - and what does not.

[Great-Kazoo]

I heard Walmart reps were asked to attend also? Can anyone confirm that?

WM like other large chains have a vested interest pushing for BG checks across the board. IF you have to do a BG check, imagine the cash flow generated @ WM. Add the buying power of 1K stores that sell guns vs the LGS and they have serious coin in their pocket.

While it would be interesting to see WM step up their Gun Inventory , like they use to have pre Columbine. The head lines touting WM backing BG checks takes more wind out of our sails.

Either way we are Fucked, either way.

[Great-Kazoo]

I'm not saying that I'm for a high-cap mag ban, just saying that it really beats the alternative. Its still a hit to our freedom and is another piece of legislature that would be better served as TP.

I continue to write my reps and am hoping that things either fizzle out in the end and nothing happens, or the fewest amount of our liberties are stolen.

Hey man, i think WREAVE hacked your account.

[Clay Turner]

The NRA isnt sending anyone important (and neither is the Biden comission) -- since both sides know its bullshit. Just a checkbox to say "we met with all sides". Nothing positive (or negative) will come from this. Its just a PR stunt.

BTW, the NRA sent James Baker who, as head of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, was the NRA's chief lobbyist for several years. Jim is a 16-year NRA veteran.

[Ronin13]

I'm not saying that I'm for a high-cap mag ban, just saying that it really beats the alternative. Its still a hit to our freedom and is another piece of legislature that would be better served as TP.

I continue to write my reps and am hoping that things either fizzle out in the end and nothing happens, or the fewest amount of our liberties are stolen.
No worries, I'll hold on to your guns until you come to your senses...

BTW, the NRA sent James Baker who, as head of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, was the NRA's chief lobbyist for several years. Jim is a 16-year NRA veteran.
Chris Cox is actually the head of the NRA-ILA, Baker is #2 to him... Just FYI.

[Inconel710]

Yep, turned out as expected -

Biden - FU
NRA - FU too

[TFOGGER]

Yep, turned out as expected -

Biden - FU
NRA - FU too

At least the NRA didn't sell us down the river like they did in 86 and 94...yet

[Clay Turner]

Key word in there being "was;" Sorry if that wasn't clear; Baker was head of ILA from 1991-94, and again from 1998-2002, I think.

[Ronin13]

At least the NRA didn't sell us down the river like they did in 86 and 94...yet
From that statement they released, it looks like they are sticking to their guns (pun intended?). I think we have a much stronger NRA now than we did in the 90's, today just proved that. I hope they stick it out and don't give up. I'm going to continue to be a member... for now.

Key word in there being "was;" Sorry if that wasn't clear; Baker was head of ILA from 1991-94, and again from 1998-2002, I think.
Me not do read too gud... [ROFL1] I'll take the hit on that one, I thought you were referring to current head of ILA. But that doesn't inspire confidence, 94 was when they caved to the Brady's... Goddammit! <Eric Carman.

[Clay Turner]

From that statement they released, it looks like they are sticking to their guns (pun intended?). I think we have a much stronger NRA now than we did in the 90's, today just proved that. I hope they stick it out and don't give up. I'm going to continue to be a member... for now.

Me not do read too gud... [ROFL1] I'll take the hit on that one, I thought you were referring to current head of ILA. But that doesn't inspire confidence, 94 was when they caved to the Brady's... Goddammit! <Eric Carman.

Ha! No worries; Around here, they call that move a "Clay."

1994 was a dark time; gun owners were getting steamrolled, and there wasn't enough $$ in the world to fight Congress, the NY Times, the Chicago Tribune, ABC, NBC, CBS (as my dad once said, "Don't pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel ..."). I was mad at losing the semi-auto ban, too, but NRA accomplished two huge things:

1. The original Brady Bill stipulated a 3-day waiting period. NRA championed, and won, the Instant Check system. If you gotta go through a background check, I'd rather wait 10 minutes than 3 days (well, it was 10 minutes last month, anyway) ...

2. NRA got the sunset provision attached to the ban. 10 years later, we won; the bill never even came to the floor for a vote to reauthorize it.

Maybe we don't get everything we ever wanted from the NRA (I can't name a place where I do), but we wouldn't have a Heller or a McDonald without them. They get my $$, as does RMGO and Pikes Peak Firearms Coalition and anyone else who's in there pitching on my behalf.

I'll get off my soon-to-be riddled soapbox now. :)

Clay
Patron Member, NRA

[asmo]

BTW, the NRA sent James Baker who, as head of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, was the NRA's chief lobbyist for several years.

I stand corrected. I really to enjoy it when I am wrong..

[BuffCyclist]

Hey man, i think WREAVE hacked your account.

I don't know who this WREAVE is that you speak of, but I went and cut off all my hippy hair and its back down to 1/4" now. With that, I realize that giving up high capacity magazines is ridiculously stupid. They're still taking something, it isn't a compromise and it won't stop any shootings from happening. Today's shooting at that high school in California is an example, the perp used a shotgun... two pistols... a high capacity assault rifle and two shotguns in scabbards with 3 pistols on picatinny rails and thousands of assault rocks. (edited in order that the news articles will release things)



I'm not saying that I'm for a high-cap mag ban, just saying that it really beats the alternative. Its still a hit to our freedom and is another piece of legislature that would be better served as TP.

I continue to write my reps and am hoping that things either fizzle out in the end and nothing happens, or the fewest amount of our liberties are stolen.
No worries, I'll hold on to your guns until you come to your senses...



Oh would you? Thanks, you're such a pal! I'll make sure I give you all of my ammo to hold onto as well so they don't spontaneously ignite killing innocent people.
[hahhah-no]

[asmo]

Maybe we don't get everything we ever wanted from the NRA (I can't name a place where I do), but we wouldn't have a Heller or a McDonald without them.

The NRA was actually against Heller for quite a long time -- and actively tried to undermine the case. They also didn't want to take McDonald on but were goaded into it kicking and screaming the whole way. They prefered, at the time, state and local fights in courts -- and to play footies with congress critters at the federal level.

me
Benefactor Member, NRA

[Ronin13]

Oh would you? Thanks, you're such a pal! I'll make sure I give you all of my ammo to hold onto as well so they don't spontaneously ignite killing innocent people.
[hahhah-no]
We cannot give them an inch... either you don't introduce legislation, or that's it... NO COMPROMISE, no alternatives. The second someone starts making concessions (granted 1934, '86, and '94 were already points of concession) they'll keep going until we're left with nothing. Like this- you have a pie, and they ask, oh can we have a 1/8th slice of your pie? You say, oh ok... then years later, can we have another 1/8th slice of your pie? You agree. Then later they ask for another... soon you're left with 1/4 of your original pie, but the thing is, it was your pie to begin with and you never had to give them a bit from the start, because it's your pie.

[BuffCyclist]

We cannot give them an inch... either you don't introduce legislation, or that's it... NO COMPROMISE, no alternatives. The second someone starts making concessions (granted 1934, '86, and '94 were already points of concession) they'll keep going until we're left with nothing. Like this- you have a pie, and they ask, oh can we have a 1/8th slice of your pie? You say, oh ok... then years later, can we have another 1/8th slice of your pie? You agree. Then later they ask for another... soon you're left with 1/4 of your original pie, but the thing is, it was your pie to begin with and you never had to give them a bit from the start, because it's your pie.

I am fully aware with the cake/pie analogy. I said above that reply that "it isn't a compromise and it won't stop any shootings from happening".

They are dead set on introducing SOMETHING to curb the gun violence epidemic, and they'll use executive orders when they have to (Biden said this explicitly). So if they are 100% guaranteed to do SOMETHING, would you rather it be a ban on high-cap mags (which frankly should be anything OVER 30rds as 30rds is not high capacity, it is STANDARD capacity) or ban all ARs and other guns with at least one EBR feature?

[hollohas]

If one more anti-gun person says that we need to "compromise" my head will explode. There isn't any compromise on the table here. Their idea of compromise is either a lot more gun control or a little more control. That's not the definition of a compromise. A compromise means both parties get something. What do we get out of what they are proposing? Nothing. If we compromise, all we'll get to decide is how much freedom we give up...a lot or a little, it's all too much.

That said, it seems to me the NRA is taking a firm stand. Give nothing. I truly believe they are fighting this battle in the attempt to squash it 100%, not to compromise. At least that's what their statements have been so far. Only time will tell if they stick to that.

I'll compromise with them...I'll let them ban anything OD and only things that are OD (black, FDE, SS, etc will still be allowed) and they'll eliminate the NFA. Yeah, that sounds fair. I'll let them have that so we can have SBRs and suppressers, etc without the hassle.

Nobody likes OD, right?

[BuffCyclist]

I'll compromise with them...I'll let them ban anything OD and only things that are OD (black, FDE, SS, etc will still be allowed) and they'll eliminate the NFA. Yeah, that sounds fair. I'll let them have that so we can have SBRs and suppressers, etc without the hassle.

Nobody likes OD, right?

I second this motion as long as Foliage Green and Pink are still allowed... [LOL]

[hollohas]

So if they are 100% guaranteed to do SOMETHING, would you rather it be a ban on high-cap mags (which frankly should be anything OVER 30rds as 30rds is not high capacity, it is STANDARD capacity) or ban all ARs and other guns with at least one EBR feature?

Neither.

Someone breaks into your house and they are going to attack you. They say that if you fight back, they will kill you. But if you don't fight, they will only beat you.

Do you fight? Hell yes you do.

[Clay Turner]

The NRA was actually against Heller for quite a long time -- and actively tried to undermine the case. They also didn't want to take McDonald on but were goaded into it kicking and screaming the whole way. They prefered, at the time, state and local fights in courts -- and to play footies with congress critters at the federal level.

me
Benefactor Member, NRA

You're right, they were reluctant to support it at first, but not because they didn't agree with it. They were (rightly, IMHO) concerned that losing Heller would have set gun rights back decades; Remember, we only won the decision that we have an individual right to own a firearm (Heller) by a vote of 5-4; One could say it was a little reckless to pursue it. It was never a sure thing; we barely scraped by.

In McDonald, it was NRA's "Due Process" argument, put forth by former US Solicitor General Paul Clement, that won the day; they rejected the "Privileges or Immunities" argument of the original petitioners. You could make a solid argument that we only won because NRA chose to jump in when they did.

And with that, I'll stop hijacking this thread. Sorry, all, if I got worked up. :)

[hollohas]

I second this motion as long as Foliage Green and Pink are still allowed... [LOL]

Deal. We just compromised.

[buckeye4rnr]

Biden Says Gun-Safety Consensus Is Emerging

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324081704578233573488817176.html?m od=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories

WASHINGTON—Vice President Joe Biden (http://topics.wsj.com/person/b/joe-biden/6352) on Thursday said he plans to give President Barack Obama (http://topics.wsj.com/person/o/barack-obama/4328) ideas to reduce gun violence by Tuesday and that a consensus is emerging to ban high-capacity weapons and require universal background checks.

"You all know this is a complicated issue," Mr. Biden said at the beginning of a meeting with gun-sports groups such as Ducks Unlimited. He said there was an "emerging consensus" of about five steps the government could take to help prevent gun violence though the administration hadn't made any final decisions.

Aside from banning high-capacity weapons and requiring universal background checks, the steps would also involve strengthening the background-check system, increasing research on gun-related injuries and deaths, and considering what responsibilities gun owners have to keep their firearms out of the wrong hands.
Enlarge Image

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-VY235_0110bi_D_20130110130622.jpg

Mr. Biden, who said he owns shotguns, added that there is no way to solve every instance of gun violence but the government must work to "diminish the probability" of shootings.
His comments came during his first gun-related meeting he and other administration officials were holding Thursday. Mr. Biden met later in the afternoon with gun-rights groups, including the National Rifle Association, which has said it opposes new gun laws and has instead called for placing armed guards in schools.

Following the meeting, the NRA released a statement (http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/01/10/nra-statement-white-house-pushing-failed-solutions/) in which it said it was "disappointed with how little this meeting had to do with keeping our children safe and how much it had to do with an agenda to attack the Second Amendment."

"We will not allow law-abiding gun owners to be blamed for the acts of criminals and madmen. Instead, we will now take our commitment and meaningful contributions to members of congress of both parties who are interested in having an honest conversation about what works—and what does not," the group said.

The vice president also will be meeting with the entertainment industry because, he said, "part of this is cultural as well." Attorney General Eric Holder will meet with representatives from retailers like Wal-Mart Stores (http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=WMT) Inc. WMT -0.31% (http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=WMT?mod=inlineTicker) and Dick's Sporting Goods Inc.

The meetings come one day after Mr. Biden said Mr. Obama was considering taking unilateral, executive action on gun control, suggesting that changes to laws are likely even without congressional moves.

"The president is going to act," Mr. Biden said Wednesday while meeting with gun-safety advocacy groups and survivors of shootings. Mr. Biden is leading an effort to draw up proposals for responding to the elementary-school shootings in Newtown, Conn.

Wal-Mart, the country's largest seller of guns, initially said it couldn't meet at the White House but on Wednesday said it was sending a representative. A White House official said the retailer was invited to meet with Mr. Holder and other gun retailers, not Mr. Biden.

Some states are trying to advance their own measures. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo proposed broad changes to the state's gun laws Wednesday, putting New York on track to be the first to revamp its regulations following the Newtown shootings.

Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy is pushing for a law banning large-capacity ammunition magazines like the ones authorities say accused gunman Adam Lanza used in the Newtown shooting.

[BuffCyclist]

That is almost word for word, the exact same article that I linked to on page 2. However, the one you posted mentions banning "high-capacity weapons". What the heck is a high-capacity WEAPON?!

[Ronin13]

That is almost word for word, the exact same article that I linked to on page 2. However, the one you posted mentions banning "high-capacity weapons". What the heck is a high-capacity WEAPON?!
If my Liberal-speak translator is correct- that would be "All weapons." Because all weapons can take high capacity of something or other... I'm not 100% sure, but your typical liberal doesn't know much, so they are free to just fuck the wording up and continue whistling Dixie.

[BuffCyclist]

If my Liberal-speak translator is correct- that would be "All weapons." Because all weapons can take high capacity of something or other... I'm not 100% sure, but your typical liberal doesn't know much, so they are free to just fuck the wording up and continue whistling Dixie.

Thats kind of how I interpreted it as. They pass this now, and then all they have to do down the road is change the definition of high-capacity and all guns are banned.

[TFOGGER]

*snip*.. What the heck is a high-capacity WEAPON?!

That would be a firearm capable of accepting one or more rounds of ammunition...

[muddywings]

WM like other large chains have a vested interest pushing for BG checks across the board. IF you have to do a BG check, imagine the cash flow generated @ WM. Add the buying power of 1K stores that sell guns vs the LGS and they have serious coin in their pocket.

While it would be interesting to see WM step up their Gun Inventory , like they use to have pre Columbine. The head lines touting WM backing BG checks takes more wind out of our sails.

Either way we are Fucked, either way.

From what I have read, WM wants to see if they can get gunshows shutdown. They want to be the lost cost provider of firearms vs the LGS with experienced people working the desk so that they can rack up more sales (and BGCs).

[BlasterBob]

The D.C. ding bats may "allow" us to keep possession/ownership of our firearms according the 2A but they could always TAX the hell out of all ammo and components and place all kinds of restrictions on those items. Don't put it past those clowns.

[Gman]

NRA: 100,000 new members after Sandy Hook shooting

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/nra-100k-new-members-after-sandy-hook-86001.html#ixzz2HdEO9Kf9


I'm a Patron member. I don't always get everything I want, but the outcome has been better with their efforts. I don't believe this is the time for in-fighting.

I'm also an RMGO member. We need to enable as many advocates as we can.

[mrghost]

I've been very very disappointed in them w/ the comments after Newton. Armed guards in every school really? A half retarded lab rat could have come up w/ that plan of action. Perhaps having ideas on mental health reporting would have been way way way more beneficial. They have deep pockets and in 2 weeks could have accomplished quite a bit.. but no. They stood around jerking each other off..

I don't see anything good coming from this meeting.

Totally agree. I am a member of the NRA but going up there and basically saying all we need to do is have an armed guard at every school (hello -- schools aren't the only place with mass or non-mass shootings) and point the finger at video games and movies just made LaPierre look like an idiot and intelligent, responsible gun owners look like idiots (in the eyes of people who thinks all gun owners agree with all things NRA).

[10mm-man]

NRA: 100,000 new members after Sandy Hook shooting

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/nra-100k-new-members-after-sandy-hook-86001.html#ixzz2HdEO9Kf9


I'm a Patron member. I don't always get everything I want, but the outcome has been better with their efforts. I don't believe this is the time for in-fighting.

I'm also an RMGO member. We need to enable as many advocates as we can.



Agree!