I like Whole Foods a little more now

[Waywardson174]

http://www.npr.org/2013/01/17/169580493/part-2-conscious-capitalism

In relevant part:

INSKEEP: You expressed concern at one time about socialism. Do you think that this is socialism?


MACKEY: Well, it depends on our definitions, here. Technically speaking, it's more like fascism. Socialism is where that government owns the means of production. In fascism, the government doesn't own the means of production, but they do control it. And that's what's happening with the health care program and with these reforms. So I'd say the system's becoming more fascist, or corporatism.


Mackey has since said he regrets using the word fascism due to its politically charge. He did not say it was wrong, just that he regretted saying it out loud.

[USAFGopherMike]

Whole foods is like the government in that it cost too much.

[10mm-man]

Whole foods is like the government in that it cost too much.


That it does! We hit the salad bar every so often and I always wonder how it cost $14.00 for two salads! not all that big either........

[StagLefty]

My church picks up close to expiring food products twice a week from Whole Foods that goes to the Arvada food bank-I can't afford to shop there but they do contribute to the community.

[Zundfolge]

Despite the fact that Whole Foods is seen as a "Liberal" business (mostly because of the leftard filth that shops there), it's actually owned and run by a libertarian.


Whole foods is like the government in that it cost too much.

It's unlike the government in that you don't have to shop there if you don't like the prices (that's why I don't).

[USAFGopherMike]

They have a decent fish monger too.

[meatman]

The meat associates for the Rocky Mountain region are good guys. Hunters and shooters.

A couple of years ago I went pheasant hunting with the meat team from one of the CO Springs WF's. Good ole boys.

[USAFGopherMike]

The meat associates for the Rocky Mountain region are good guys. Hunters and shooters.

A couple of years ago I went pheasant hunting with the meat team from one of the CO Springs WF's. Good ole boys.

Do they have a store in Fort Collins?

[StagLefty]

Do they have a store in Fort Collins?

2201 S. College Ave.

[USAFGopherMike]

2201 S. College Ave.

Awesome.. I'll go check them out. Thanks.

[Kraven251]

I buy quite a bit of fresh bread there. The majority of their baked goods are the same price range as anywhere else and if you don't have to go out of your way to find one, the quality in my experience has been superior.

[Zundfolge]

They have a decent fish monger too.

My brother used to be the fish monger at a Whole Foods in Kansas City. He said it was the best big company he's ever worked for by far.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I don't have any problems with Whole Foods per se -- the business is run well, they have happy employees and their products are generally high quality. Their products are also generally overpriced but they're just charging what the market will bear and the tree-hugging granolas will pay beaucoup bucks for anything marked "organic" so why not liberate them of some of their green? I don't shop there much -- usually just the salad bar or hot bar when I'm too tired to cook dinner for myself and want some variety from the Chinese buffet or other take-out -- but then again, I'm not willing to pay 3x as much for something just because it says "organic" on it.

[nynco]

Thats not the definition of fascism. Fascism at its most base level is when corporations and gov are one in the same. Meaning that corporations own and control the gov. Words have real meanings.

[Waywardson174]

Thats not the definition of fascism. Fascism at its most base level is when corporations and gov are one in the same. Meaning that corporations own and control the gov. Words have real meanings.

Me thinks Mackey's shorthand argument of Obamacare being more Fascist than Socialist is much closer to correct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism) than your statement.

[nynco]

It is fascist in the fact that thanks to years and years of supreme court rulings by corrupt judges, that corporations are entitled to the same rights as living citizens and can give as much money to our gov officials elections as they want. So yeah... thanks judges that ruled for "citizens united", it paved the way for the health insurance industry to buy our gov and get that turd sandwich Obama care law.

But as to the definition, that is Mussolini definition of fascism as it was practiced by Italy the original fascist gov that coined the term. It is the marriage of business and gov with business controlling the gov.

People need to learn the definitions of words and use them the right way. Otherwise it makes the horrendous things of the past which have lessons to teach us today and in the future, meaningless.

[Zundfolge]

Thats not the definition of fascism. Fascism at its most base level is when corporations and gov are one in the same. Meaning that corporations own and control the gov. Words have real meanings.

OR meaning that government owns and controls the corporations. Lefties always seem to spin the definition of Fascism against their current enemies (capitalists and conservatives) all the while ignoring the fact that most Fascist and Communist systems are similar to one another (to the point of being almost indistinguishable) and more similar to what "progressives" and liberals want than Fascism is to true free market capitalism (which is what most conservatives want).


But as to the definition, that is Mussolini definition of fascism as it was practiced by Italy the original fascist gov that coined the term. It is the marriage of business and gov with business controlling the gov.

Italian (and by extension German) Fascism was more about government controlling business, not business controlling government. Again, you lefties keep missusing "Fascist" as a means of attacking free market capitalism (and by extension, freedom in general).

The dirty little secret you're trying to hide is that the modern "progressive" Democrat is more in line with Mussolini's Fascist party or Hitler's Nazi party than those evil, dastardly Repthuglicans you hate so much.

[nynco]

If the gov owns or controls the corporations, that makes it communism. Again learn the meanings of words. It helps all humanity in the long run.

[nynco]

Hitlers Germany and Muslin's Italy were far different forms of gov. The common thread they shared was they were authoritarian in nature. If you want to talk about the root commonality of the two then use the term "Authoritarian".

Now Mussolini went so far as to make ruling bodies in each region headed by the local captains of industry. Much the same way that our current bunch of dirt bag politicians have our laws written by the same captains of industry that they are supposed to be regulating. Or ... how those same corporations are sending their guys to run things like the EPA or the FDA. A perfect example is Geitner... that wunder banker turd.

Fascists were also FIERCELY anti liberal and anti communist. So the fact that people confuse the two as being one in the same definition wise is just laughable. Sadly not in a good way.

"Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of liberalism, both in the political and economic sphere." Mussolini http://www.publiceye.org/fascist/corporatism.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

[Monky]

Whole Foods - aka - Whole Paycheck, is filled with libtards that shop there. However, most of the employees I know are good people. I buy meats and a few other things there.. but I don't do all my shopping, no way I could afford it.. I can drop $100 and walk out with only 1 bag. :(

Health care costs ARE going to rise.. the dems are so stupid.

[nynco]

The healthcare costs have been rising at nearly triple the rate of inflation for almost 2 decades. So yea that has been a problem for a REAL long time. Obamas big gift to the banking/insurance industry in the form of Romney care on the national level did not fix any of the root problems. It just gave more money to the bankers.

[Zundfolge]

Yes, words mean things. One of the biggest "Big Lies" of progressivism in the last century is that there is some great difference between "Communist" and "Fascist".

The only reason the Fascists were "anti-Communist" is because they were competing over the same turf. Otherwise they believe in 99% the same crap.


This dovetails into the Big Lie called "The Left vs Right Paradigm of Political Ideologies". The simple fact is that Communism, Socialism and Fascism are all very slight variations on a theme, but since a bunch of Fascists (called Nazis) stuffed Jews into ovens and stained their cause with too much innocent blood (that they couldn't hide like all the blood on Stalin and Mao's hands) the Progressives created this lie that their beloved Communism is on the happy left end of the spectrum and the evil Fascism is on the right ... over by the Republicans, Libertarians and Constitutionalists.

Seriously, saying the entire spectrum of political thought lies between Communism on the left and Fascism on the right is as asinine as saying the entire spectrum of musical styles lies between West Coast Hip Hop on the left and East Coast Hip Hop on the right ... certainly no room in that continuum for Country, Scandinavian Folk Music or Tuvan throat singing).

[sellersm]

This 'word play' is what allows people to be deceived and manipulated! Words do mean things, and we must always be wary of those who will redefine words 'on the fly'.


Seriously, saying the entire spectrum of political thought lies between Communism on the left and Fascism on the right is as asinine as saying the entire spectrum of musical styles lies between West Coast Hip Hop on the left and East Coast Hip Hop on the right

^This is a perfect example of truth: it's what got many countries into the mess they got into, and is leading ours down the same path!

[nynco]

Would you please read some actual history outside of the right wing propaganda blogs. Jezzz.... Fascism and communism are total opposites. Their uniting trait is they are Authoritarian and Totalitarian. Look up those terms too. Then while you are learning, know that fascism is the same thing as corporatism.

Let me break this down really simple for you, extremes on both sides are just as evil. A free market with no regulations always leads to those who have the most MONEY like the corporations to OWN the gov. Which is the text book definition of what fascism is. Its common sense, those who have the most money always use that power to buy more power. So please learn some history, stop being a fool who repeats the garbage.

[NightCat]

I'm now craving a whole foods burrito........dammit

[hollohas]

Who missed nynco?

[nynco]

You need me now more than ever. Even if you think I annoy the crap out of you by bringing up inconvenient truth. Whether you like it or not, this board can be seen by the whole world. If the whole world sees "normal" gun owners as just extremist right wingers who have no connection to reality, well good luck defending the 2nd.

[hollohas]

Fascists were also FIERCELY anti liberal and anti communist. So the fact that people confuse the two as being one in the same definition wise is just laughable. Sadly not in a good way.



Nynco, I think you are wrong here. Hitler himself, said Nazism (which we all agree was Fascism) did in fact preserve socialist elements-

He said Nazism was made up of elements "From the camp of bourgeois tradition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradition), it takes national resolve, and from the materialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_materialism) of the Marxist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism) dogma, living, creative Socialism".

And we know that Marx himself said Socialism was just one step before Communism.

Of course, you don't have to know any of that. All you have to do is know that the Nazi party was the National Socialist German Workers Party.

So how you can say that one of the words pure examples of Fascism (Nazism) was right wing when they themselves defined their views as Socialist (near communist, left-wing), just doesn't make sense.

[DavieD55]

I love shopping at that place but it is fuggin expensive.

[nynco]

Nazism was not fascism. Fascism was the term created to describe Mussolini gov. So once again, please learn the history of the term. The common trait they all share is Authoritarianism and Totalitarianism.

Can you at least agree that corporations/great wealth OWNING the Gov is just as bad as the Gov owning the means of production?

[nynco]

Good for you[blah-blah]

[hollohas]

Nazism was not fascism. Fascism was the term created to describe Mussolini gov. So once again, please learn the history of the term. The common trait they all share is Authoritarianism and Totalitarianism.

Here is just one accomplished historian who disagrees with you. Roderick Stackelberg, a German immigrant, accomplished Nazi historian and professor, born in Munich on 1935, says very clearly in the book Hitler's Germany


Nazism is a radical variant of Fascism.

He goes on to explain Germany's move to radical Fascism and how it differed from the Italian form of Fascism at the time but explains they were both forms of Fascism. He does argue that Fascists hate Communists, but the two do have some very similar some social/economic ideals.


Can you at least agree that corporations/great wealth OWNING the Gov is just as bad as the Gov owning the means of production?

Yes.

[bogie]

This thread went to shit after about post 14.

Stop feeding the plant and it will wither away.

[nynco]

Here is just one accomplished historian who disagrees with you. Roderick Stackelberg, a German immigrant, accomplished Nazi historian and professor, born in Munich on 1935, says very clearly in the book Hitler's Germany



He goes on to explain Germany's move to radical Fascism and how it differed from the Italian form of Fascism at the time but explains they were both forms of Fascism. He does argue that Fascists hate Communists, but the two do have some very similar some social/economic ideals.



Yes.

Germany was similar to fascist Italy but not the same. The definition of fascism has been purposely obfuscated in the last 30 sum years by people who have an agenda. The fact of the matter is the person who coined the term Mussolini himself left us with the definition as the merger of corporation and state. In the end it meant that industry controlled all of the gov at state, local and federal level.

When we deregulate corporations and wallstreet the end result always is that there is no laws to stop them from buying the gov. So when someone tells me that they believe in free markets and deregulation, I always look at who and how they are deregulating. Because it is ALWAYS deregulation in ways that gives corporations more power to own our gov or create a market condition that favors cartel behavior.

[StagLefty]

Talk about a hijacked thread !!!!! [facepalm]

[nynco]

Please tell me how it was hijacked because the original misuse of the term Fascism came right from the opening post.