View Full Version : boulder pd elk killers arrested
trlcavscout
01-18-2013, 16:04
Its about time
Up to 8 years in jail
I'd have been arrested the day after. what took so long...
husky390
01-18-2013, 16:22
I'd have been arrested the day after. what took so long...
Exactly. Not to mention your truck, gun, and anything else the law can dream of would have been impounded.
I'd have been arrested the day after. what took so long...
What took so long? These 'men' are members of an elite corp of people to whom you are subservient, from the lowly DMV clerk all the way to the President...at least that is what a good number of them want you to think. This shooting, like the dog shootings, is just another example of what the government as a whole actually thinks of the citizens.
Of course there are many individuals in the employ of the government who rightly see themselves as true public servants, but these people number fewer and fewer every day.
I hope the clown didn't get to keep the head for his taxidermy biz.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_22401544/boulder-district-attorney-announce-decision-charges-mapleton-elk-shooting
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_22401544/boulder-district-attorney-announce-decision-charges-mapleton-elk-shooting
Planned for 24 hours... the guy who did the shooting was texting his buddy. "He's gonna die tonight."
Well, that's a bad decision that's going to haunt them for the rest of their lives.
sandman76
01-18-2013, 16:52
Good no more paid vacation either. Straight up premeditated poaching. What I can't believe is they thought they could get away with that crap.
JohnTRourke
01-18-2013, 16:57
Its about time
this
ridiculous it took so long and they better go away (and get fired) for a long time.
It does give me a little hope that there is a slight bit of justice still around.
griebel303
01-18-2013, 17:31
Glad they got fired
bigun1962
01-18-2013, 17:31
Bet there sentence is misd. probation at worst!
JohnTRourke
01-18-2013, 19:03
Glad they got fired
read it, not fired
on unpaid leave (after 3 weeks of paid leave/vacation) which means they still get benefits.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_22401544/boulder-district-attorney-announce-decision-charges-mapleton-elk-shooting
Planned for 24 hours... the guy who did the shooting was texting his buddy. "He's gonna die tonight."
Guess it's a good thing criminals are stupid.
There is a lot of "fail" in that article.
palepainter
01-18-2013, 19:40
I think 8 years is a bit harsh, but glad to see them get reprimanded.
Wow, hard to believe they could get 8 years. But I guess you pay for your actions.
BushMasterBoy
01-18-2013, 20:57
Thank God an assault rifle was not used. But if that thing was charging at me, I would definitely want a 30 round clip! I just hope there are no Elks on the jury...
I think 8 years is a bit harsh, but glad to see them get reprimanded.
8 years is too harsh for 3 felonies?
So far the only injustice is that they walked free for so long. If Joe Citizen had shot a trophy elk in a neighborhood and had one of his buddies take it away to be butchered, he'd be in the Boulder County Jail before the blood dried on the street.
It was obvious to all that this was a bad decision by the cops involved - not just the shooting of the elk, but the abuse of their office to do so. They deserve whatever the average citizen would get for the elk shooting, plus whatever they should get for the abuse of police powers, plus a bonus. I don't know if that's eight years, but it's certainly legit prison time.
The texts seal the deal. I think they will throw the book at them. Bad shoot. Better an elk than my dog :)
hollohas
01-18-2013, 21:42
Like I said earlier, the DOW hates poachers and does a fantastic job investigating and prosecuting them, no matter who they are.
I'd have been arrested the day after. what took so long...
It took so long because the DOW makes damn sure they build a solid case for each and every poaching. Some poaching cases take years to file charges.
Those guys are gonna sizzle, crackle and fry like bacon, and they deserve it IMO. They deserve the exact same consequences that any of us, or a couple of rednecks from Texas would face. Their badges should provide absolutely NO protection for them for what they did. It was planned and premeditated, and they have absolute proof of it.
sniper_tim
01-18-2013, 21:54
I frequently read the news posts of CPW, and even repeat poachers over many years of poaching trophy's don't get jail time. Typically a large fine and loss of hunting privileges. I suspect these police officers will not get jail time and if they do, only because someone is making an example of them. Either way, they will never be police officers again (rightly so).
Cheers,
Tim
I frequently read the news posts of CPW, and even repeat poachers over many years of poaching trophy's don't get jail time. Typically a large fine and loss of hunting privileges. I suspect these police officers will not get jail time and if they do, only because someone is making an example of them. Either way, they will never be police officers again (rightly so).
Cheers,
Tim
They should have to do a couple years of community service as road kill scoopers.
palepainter
01-18-2013, 22:00
8 years is too harsh for 3 felonies?
Ya, I just caught the 8 years. Didn't see the counts, sorry. Couldn't read the story on my iPad.
They deserve the exact same consequences that any of us, or a couple of rednecks from Texas would face.
Where in the hell did that come from? What is the charge for being a redneck from Texas? Is it normal for a redneck from Texas to hunt out of season or without a tag?
Uberjager
01-18-2013, 23:47
Good no more paid vacation either. Straight up premeditated poaching. What I can't believe is they thought they could get away with that crap.
They would have, if it weren't for those meddling kids...
Where in the hell did that come from? What is the charge for being a redneck from Texas? Is it normal for a redneck from Texas to hunt out of season or without a tag?
Just an example. It's not unheard of for out of state yahoos to go to other states and poach critters. They come from all over, Texas was just an example. Don't get all butt hurt or anything.
Thanks for the clarification. If this state goes too blue, I may have to run down to Texas.
They need to throw the book at these Jerks. Serious jail time!!
Better an elk than my dog :)
-in so many ways.....
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_22411232/boulder-cop-talked-about-killing-elk-earlier
One of the Boulder police officers arrested on felony charges in connection with the shooting of an elk in Mapleton Hill told other officers he planned to kill the elk during a shift briefing nearly a week before the Jan. 1 killing, according to an arrest-warrant affidavit.
Boulder police Officers Sam Carter, 35, and Brent Curnow, 38, face charges of forgery, tampering with physical evidence and attempting to influence a public official — all felonies — as well as unlawful taking of a trophy elk, conspiracy, a Samson surcharge, killing an elk out of season, unlawful use of an electronic device to unlawfully take wildlife and first-degree official misconduct — all misdemeanors.
The arrest-warrant affidavit says Carter discussed wanting to kill the elk in front of other officers at a work meeting Dec. 26.
Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner said he has not heard any indication other officers were involved in a conspiracy.
"Cops say a lot of things and joke around about a lot of things because it's a stressful job," he said.
Whenever something like this happens to people, someone always seems to follow-up about how there were warning signs before the event. I guess nobody saw the signs until after this happened too.
trlcavscout
01-20-2013, 19:01
Its ok, its a stressful job. They are victims and should be reinstated with raises and maybe a less stressful desk job.
Its ok, its a stressful job. They are victims and should be reinstated with raises and maybe a less stressful desk job.
And backpay, don't forget backpay.
husky390
01-20-2013, 19:24
Its ok, its a stressful job. They are victims and should be reinstated with raises and maybe a less stressful desk job.
Yeah, it's stressful. Writing tickets for speeding on Pearl, telling people not to ride their bikes on sidewalks, making sure people recycle, and dealing with the drunk/high college student.
I hope they get the full 8 years. Premeditated, endangering the public shooting it at night, in town, not notifying dispatch of a discharged weapon, taking the carcass, lying about it etc etc. I hope they get butt fucked by a couple of the guys they put behind bars.
Yeah, it's stressful. Writing tickets for speeding on Pearl, telling people not to ride their bikes on sidewalks, making sure people recycle, and dealing with the drunk/high college student.
You forgot writing tickets for smoking in public!
SA Friday
01-20-2013, 20:57
Wow, some of you guys need to get over yourselves. On one hand you are demanding they get punished more harsh than an average citizen and the next demanding they should be arrested faster than the average citizen.
This was an investigation. Investigations come in all shapes and sizes, and this one shows no reason to rush it and potentially mess it up. There isn't a threat of further violence to self or others, no potential of the suspects to flee the area, and no reason to file for an arrest warrant until all the facts and potential charges are known. Personally, I thought the charges were filed lightning fast for this whole thing. Considering the list of charges, not only are they being dealt with more harsh than the average poacher, that's all this really is, poaching.
8 years for poaching? really? You think that's justice? 6th amendment people. Stop pissing your pants about them being cops and weigh and measure them just like everyone else. If it were two other guys, the chances of them being suspended from their jobs in any fashion before they were arrested would be very very low. Hell, the chances of even a second news article would probably be zero until sentencing.
Take the hater glasses off for a little while.
kidicarus13
01-20-2013, 21:01
Right or wrong law enforcement is held to a higher standard just like the clergy, judges, etc.
Wow, some of you guys need to get over yourselves. On one hand you are demanding they get punished more harsh than an average citizen and the next demanding they should be arrested faster than the average citizen.
This was an investigation. Investigations come in all shapes and sizes, and this one shows no reason to rush it and potentially mess it up. There isn't a threat of further violence to self or others, no potential of the suspects to flee the area, and no reason to file for an arrest warrant until all the facts and potential charges are known. Personally, I thought the charges were filed lightning fast for this whole thing. Considering the list of charges, not only are they being dealt with more harsh than the average poacher, that's all this really is, poaching.
8 years for poaching? really? You think that's justice? 6th amendment people. Stop pissing your pants about them being cops and weigh and measure them just like everyone else. If it were two other guys, the chances of them being suspended from their jobs in any fashion before they were arrested would be very very low. Hell, the chances of even a second news article would probably be zero until sentencing.
Take the hater glasses off for a little while.
You make some sense here, OTOH they did it while IN UNIFORM so that warrants a more severe punishment.
Right or wrong law enforcement is held to a higher standard just like the clergy, judges, etc.
Agreed. ESPECIALLY when they use being LE to commit/try to get away with the crime.
It's one thing to hold a guy to a slightly higher standard because he's a cop, e.g. if this had been a cop who was a simple poacher, out of season, etc. But he committed the offense because he thought he could get away with it due to being a cop, then he used being a cop to try to cover it up, then he lied to his employer about it to try to hide it... I'm not real sympathetic. This wasn't a momentary lapse of judgment, it was an abuse of the office.
http://kdvr.com/2013/01/22/boulder-officers-charged-with-shooting-popular-elk-resign/
BOULDER, Colo. — Two Boulder Police officers who are facing criminal charges after shooting an elk January 1st, have now resigned from the police department.Investigators allege that Sam Carter and Brent Curnow conspired to kill the elk that was roaming a Boulder neighborhood for meat and trophy.
Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner briefed the city council Tuesday night, letting them know that other officers are embarrassed by all of this.
“They’re embarrassed. They are angry. There is nobody in our department supporting these officers right now,” Beckner said. He told the group the issue is being handled.
“They are no longer employed, so the process is working,” he said.
Good news. Hope the dow isnt lenient at all.
GlockDog47
01-23-2013, 09:53
They need jail, I would get jail why should they get less.[Mad]
reading through the affidavit sure makes them look like the dumb criminals that they are. Just goes to show, criminals wear all kinds of uniforms. Thier text messages back and forth only proves that they were planning to kill the elk, no matter what.
http://media.thedenverchannel.com/documents/Elk%20shot%20affidavit.PDF
Jail time is too good for them.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NnbOACoKz4Y/TeblMQaLadI/AAAAAAAABsQ/SmVmV1LG_Pg/s1600/monty_python_witch.jpg
[Coffee]
JohnTRourke
01-23-2013, 15:52
This is such bullshit.
They are allowed to resign SO THEY CAN KEEP THEIR PENSION AND BENE'S
They should be fucking fired!!!!!!!!!! (and should have been weeks ago)
Corrupt to the core.
OneGuy67
01-23-2013, 18:06
This is such bullshit.
They are allowed to resign SO THEY CAN KEEP THEIR PENSION AND BENE'S
They should be fucking fired!!!!!!!!!! (and should have been weeks ago)
Corrupt to the core.
They have PERA as their retirement. One vests in five years with PERA. Resigned, quit or fired, doesn't mean anything if you are vested. You walk with whatever your account has.
No benefits to resigning over being fired. Can't file for unemployment. Don't get to keep your medical, dental or health insurance through the city by resigning.
They got out of being interviewed by their internal affairs department in their investigation. That's all. Whoopie. They were properly charged with multiple crimes and will have to deal with that.
Those bull elk will have fun with them in prison...
They are allowed to resign SO THEY CAN KEEP THEIR PENSION AND BENE'S
There's two sets of rules in society: those for the governed and those for the people that govern. I'd have been locked up before daybreak the night that elk was shot, not so much for the folks that shot it. I've got no qualms with elk hunting. I have issues with double standards.
bigun1962
01-23-2013, 19:32
Good points machine gunner, however by resigning they can be hired again in law enforcement. Fired is a no go. They will deal with the charges and move on. Doubt if they get jail time. Jails are full and money is tight. I'm still betting on fines from the dow and loss of hunting, maybe for life. Misd probation on the balance. Working in law enforcement within 2 years.
Good points machine gunner, however by resigning they can be hired again in law enforcement. Fired is a no go. They will deal with the charges and move on. Doubt if they get jail time. Jails are full and money is tight. I'm still betting on fines from the dow and loss of hunting, maybe for life. Misd probation on the balance. Working in law enforcement within 2 years.
^^^This.
OneGuy67
01-23-2013, 21:40
Good points machine gunner, however by resigning they can be hired again in law enforcement. Fired is a no go. They will deal with the charges and move on. Doubt if they get jail time. Jails are full and money is tight. I'm still betting on fines from the dow and loss of hunting, maybe for life. Misd probation on the balance. Working in law enforcement within 2 years.
I think you are referring to me, but you have the wrong name.
Neither will work in law enforcement again. There isn't a chief or sheriff who would touch either one of these guys with their poor decision making, especially given the publicity involved. The DA won't dismiss the three felony charges to have them plead to one of the several misdeanor charges. I can't speculate on any jail time, but I would tend to agree they will get probation in the end.
Good one, Ah Pook!
If they weigh the same as a duck....burn them!!!!
I think you are referring to me, but you have the wrong name.
Looks like. Paper Hunter didn't pick the right name. [ROFL2]
Good one, Ah Pook!
If they weigh the same as a duck....burn them!!!!
Or little tiny rocks.
Inspector Fowler
01-24-2013, 10:00
As has been mentioned above, there isn't anything else you can do to these two.
The charges will go on their criminal history, which means that no police agency can hire them without seeing those charges. Sure - like everybody else in America, they will probably take plea deals to non-felony charges, which I guess would make them hire-able, but the chief that hires two officers this stupid deserves the publicity backlash that would erupt.
As far as taking away their pension, and assuming Boulder PD has PERA, what has been said above is correct - if they've been in for five years or more, they'll get a small - very small - trickle of money when they retire. It really isn't any different than putting money in any other kind of investment account, except that PERA substitutes for SSN contributions. That's money they earned and saved, and they shouldn't lose it, unless you believe that a private citizen should have his SSN payments reduced after retirement for crimes committed while he was working.
I know that cops need to be held accountable to a higher standard, and they are - most people here could "accidentally" shoot an elk and keep their jobs. Sure, you'd end up in the newspaper, but that is for poaching a popular urban elk - that would happen to anybody.
Long story short, these two idiots will have their day in court. They're jobless and shamed. I don't know what else you would want.
JohnTRourke
01-24-2013, 16:32
As far as taking away their pension, and assuming Boulder PD has PERA, what has been said above is correct - if they've been in for five years or more, they'll get a small - very small - trickle of money when they retire. It really isn't any different than putting money in any other kind of investment account, except that PERA substitutes for SSN contributions. That's money they earned and saved,
wrong.
They're jobless and shamed. I don't know what else you would want.
[guillotine]
Inspector Fowler
01-24-2013, 17:45
Well then, put it out there. What would you have done? Don't just hide behind emoticons, say it out loud.
If you got convicted of a crime, would you deserve to have your social security revoked? Why should they face anything worse than termination and criminal sanctions?
StreetDoctor
01-24-2013, 18:02
As has been mentioned above, there isn't anything else you can do to these two.
The charges will go on their criminal history, which means that no police agency can hire them without seeing those charges. Sure - like everybody else in America, they will probably take plea deals to non-felony charges, which I guess would make them hire-able, but the chief that hires two officers this stupid deserves the publicity backlash that would erupt.
As far as taking away their pension, and assuming Boulder PD has PERA, what has been said above is correct - if they've been in for five years or more, they'll get a small - very small - trickle of money when they retire. It really isn't any different than putting money in any other kind of investment account, except that PERA substitutes for SSN contributions. That's money they earned and saved, and they shouldn't lose it, unless you believe that a private citizen should have his SSN payments reduced after retirement for crimes committed while he was working.
I know that cops need to be held accountable to a higher standard, and they are - most people here could "accidentally" shoot an elk and keep their jobs. Sure, you'd end up in the newspaper, but that is for poaching a popular urban elk - that would happen to anybody.
Long story short, these two idiots will have their day in court. They're jobless and shamed. I don't know what else you would want.
agree 100%. I have a feeling a few just want to see them hung because of their disdain for police in general.
Inspector Fowler
01-24-2013, 18:16
We live in a weird society with cops.
On the East Coast, they still get away with that unionized crap where the cops badge their way into everything (not saying that happens everywhere, but I know people who have gone there for trainings and been horrified to see what cops still get away with out there). If we lived in that environment, I would probably not trust police very much. The reality is though, that we don't live out there.
Here in Colorado, I feel like most departments do the best they can - people here might not believe it, but trust me - most cops feel sick and angry when one of their own does something that betrays the public trust, because we know we'll be painted with the same brush. The Blue Wall of Silence isn't really a "thing" here, at least not in my decade of law enforcement.
I personally know a guy who intentionally struck a cop with a truck - cop was on foot. He ran the cop over because he was trying to run away from other cops, because he was driving drunk. Fortunately, the cop was barely hurt - super lucky. Now, do you know what happened to this guy as far as his job is concerned? He found a job that fully supported him - so much so that they HIRED another guy to drive him around because he was a "really nice guy" but they knew he was going to lose his license.
The newspapers didn't even report on his sentencing, and he tried to KILL a person. He'll get his Social Security benefits juuuust fine, minus the few months he'll spend in jail.
So for killing an elk - and doing it illegally and shamefully, to be sure - I want you to NAME the penalties, in realistic words, you would apply.
JohnTRourke
01-24-2013, 18:39
Well then, put it out there. What would you have done? Don't just hide behind emoticons, say it out loud.
If you got convicted of a crime, would you deserve to have your social security revoked? Why should they face anything worse than termination and criminal sanctions?
You missed my point. PERA is not return of the employees money. About 8% of it is, the rest is taxpayer money. (just like SS but even worse).
BTW, they weren't terminated, they quit. big difference.
And the blue wall of silence clearly lives. We aren't chicago (yet, not sure about Denver), but without the resident's video, these guys would have had nothing. They TALKED ABOUT IT a week before in their daily briefing. Where were the other police officers (and their commanding officer) saying "hey, wait, stop, even joking about that stuff isn't funny" Nothing, big wall of silence.
OneGuy67
01-24-2013, 18:49
[QUOTE=JohnTRourke;888529]You missed my point. PERA is not return of the employees money. About 8% of it is, the rest is taxpayer money. (just like SS but even worse). [QUOTE]
I believe they contribute 10% and their employer contributes 10%, but I could be off on the percentages. As stated before, it is money they earned and were entitled to as part of their compensation package for employment. After they leave (fired, quit, terminated, whatever), they do get a percentage of their pay back monthly at their retirement age.
The reality is though, that we don't live out there.
Nope, we don't. I live in Boulder, which might just rival what you refer to. This is just the last six months in a small town in Colorado:
Boulder cop Elizabeth Ward: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/07/boulder-cop-suspected-of-_n_2254753.html
Boulder cop Scott Morris: http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/12/12/new-photos-show-bottles-of-booze-in-accused-boulder-officers-car/
Several of the deputies who participated in the traffic stop recognized him from previous stops, and one of them said he had been pulled over 44 times in the past several years, according to the report.
Boulder cop Christian McCracken: http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_22068564/judge-statements-by-ex-boulder-cop-christian-mccracken
Boulder cops Carter & Burnow: http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22424249
Inspector Fowler
01-24-2013, 19:30
So wait - these cops are ousted and charged, and you think they're getting away with something? The very fact that you can link to news articles about them points out the fact that they aren't protected by the blue wall.
I would argue that this might perhaps point to hiring or internal discipline issues internal to Boulder, but these people are in the public, terminated, and charged. You're not going to get better than that until the day when police hiring processes include the ability to predict all future behaviors.
You'll get no arguments from me that SSN is a terrible, terrible system that is doomed to failure. Simple math can dictate this.
These two guys will get a literal pittance from PERA, and they'll end up working some crappy menial job because police work doesn't prepare you for any alternative careers.
Also, don't get me wrong - what these guys did was illegal and shameful. And as police officers, when they break the law, the public deserves to know, and they need to be terminated. But anything beyond that is frankly unreasonable.
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