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robertcolorado2009
01-18-2013, 16:21
How would you rate the accuracy of an AR-15 to other bolt action rifles?

RCCrawler
01-18-2013, 16:25
The AR-15 isn't a bolt action rifle.

robertcolorado2009
01-18-2013, 16:28
Worded it wrong, sorry.

TheBelly
01-18-2013, 16:29
Gas gun accuracy is pretty good these days. Sub-MOA is getting to be the norm from a precision built weapon.

robertcolorado2009
01-18-2013, 16:30
Lets ignore this question. There was a disagreement that has been settled.

Gman
01-18-2013, 16:30
The AR platform can be quite accurate.

HBARleatherneck
01-18-2013, 16:45
delete

GlockDog47
01-18-2013, 16:52
The AR platform can be quite accurate.

Yep... I agree

Gman
01-18-2013, 16:57
I had read that after optics were being employed on M16/M4 platforms by the military there were so many head shots that it generated an inquiry into possible close-range executions. If a bad-guy is popping his head up in a window and that's your only target, that can happen.

islandermyk
01-18-2013, 17:09
assuming the question is based on the same caliber (.223/5.56) comparing an AR15 platform to a bolt action with the same barrel lengths and twist... this would be a good question.

Sawin
01-18-2013, 17:10
My CZ 527 .223 is more accurate than any AR I've personally shot, but I'm not trying to put 5 shots through the same half inch hole with my AR... toe to toe, it's more about the barrel and trigger, I'd say.

Rucker61
01-18-2013, 17:16
My CZ 527 .223 is more accurate than any AR I've personally shot, but I'm not trying to put 5 shots through the same half inch hole with my AR... toe to toe, it's more about the barrel and trigger, I'd say.

Weird, I couldn't get that same gun to group worth a damn, unlike the CZ rim fires I own.

Great-Kazoo
01-18-2013, 17:21
I had read that after optics were being employed on M16/M4 platforms by the military there were so many head shots that it generated an inquiry into possible close-range executions. If a bad-guy is popping his head up in a window and that's your only target, that can happen.

Source?

Sawin
01-18-2013, 17:28
Weird, I couldn't get that same gun to group worth a damn, unlike the CZ rim fires I own.

Did yours have the 1:12 or 1:9 twist? Mine's a 1:9 and shoots 50gr v-max like no one's business. It likes the lighter grain bullets the most. 40gr is supposed to be even better out of it, but i've never bothered to buy any since it already shoots better than me, with 50 and 55gr bullets.

Rucker61
01-18-2013, 17:46
Did yours have the 1:12 or 1:9 twist? Mine's a 1:9 and shoots 50gr v-max like no one's business. It likes the lighter grain bullets the most. 40gr is supposed to be even better out of it, but i've never bothered to buy any since it already shoots better than me, with 50 and 55gr bullets.

1:9 varmint, and I tried 63 and 68 grain. Finally gave up and sold it. My Tikka. 308 shoots sub MOA all day.

Delfuego
01-18-2013, 18:34
definetley plinking a 10" plate at 1000 with 260 ARThis is in my very near future!

HBARleatherneck
01-18-2013, 18:35
delete

Gman
01-18-2013, 19:51
Source?
I'm going by memory from something years ago...

I'll see if I can dig it up again.

Ah Pook
01-18-2013, 20:05
http://www.alcanthang.com/poker/barn.jpg

I can hit it.

jerrymrc
01-18-2013, 20:25
http://www.alcanthang.com/poker/barn.jpg

I can hit it.

You used a shotgun to do that. [Flower] My 5.56 AR's have been 2moa guns with handloads and they are just a normal type. I have seen HP guns that are real 1" guns but then there is a lot of $$$ invested. My new 300 BLK is showing real promise that with handloads it just might be a shooter. I was surprised.

ray1970
01-18-2013, 20:56
http://www.alcanthang.com/poker/barn.jpg

I can hit it.

i can hit it too.


(from the inside)[facepalm]

dwalker460
01-18-2013, 21:13
My buddys Grendel shoots .750" groups @ slightly over 100yds. My 16" Wilson barreled gun is getting there. With 55gr PMC its a 2" grouper, with 63/77gr SMK handloads its closer to 1" but I am still working on it.
There is not reason an AR cannot be every bit as accurate as any bolt gun, given attention to detail when assembling it.

Kraven251
01-18-2013, 21:14
On the days where I find that zen spot on breathing and trigger control I've been able to put 5 rounds 1/2" or better at 100 yards, but that is using a 1:7 18" noveske spr barrel and mk262 mod1. My other rifle has a DD 16" 1:7 and it will do MOA all day long on SS109

Both of these rifles shoot better than I can

BPTactical
01-18-2013, 22:50
The bolt will always be more accurate IMHO. Less moving parts so better mechanical repeatability which equal better consistency. Accurate and consistent are two different things.

sniper_tim
01-18-2013, 23:39
Most AR's can't hit the side of a barn, PM me and I'll be happy to trade you my sub moa chipmonk 22LR for your AR.

Cheers,
Tim

Hoser
01-18-2013, 23:46
My new 300 BLK is showing real promise that with handloads it just might be a shooter. I was surprised.

Its all in the brass baby...

Gman
01-19-2013, 01:23
Sorry, jim, still haven't found the source. I have found multiple references on the web that refer to Marines with ACOGs in Iraq being investigated for performing executions due to the high number of headshots, but ballistics and witnesses verified that they were at range. It was around 2004. I'm still looking.

Gman
01-19-2013, 01:56
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HdZ6WLrEnA&feature=share&list=PLCCD7F44E9 AB9A9BF
At about 4:26 seconds is the reference I was describing.

DireWolf
01-19-2013, 02:11
The bolt will always be more accurate IMHO. Less moving parts so better mechanical repeatability which equal better consistency.


I've actually been thinking about this lately and wondering if turning off the gas (manual cycling) would have any noticeable affect on accuracy, particularly at long-range...

Gman
01-19-2013, 02:26
Might improve velocity but likely wouldn't do much for accuracy.

Bolt gun has a higher potential for precision. If you're going to cycle manually, might as well use a bolt action rifle.

brutal
01-19-2013, 02:28
Watched a friend do sub MOA with 68gr SMK handloads in a Wilson. Ragged holes @ 100yds with a 10x optic.

DireWolf
01-19-2013, 02:57
If you're going to cycle manually, might as well use a bolt action rifle.

My thought was that if it did end up providing some benefit, it only takes a few seconds to adjust the gas and I could just turn it off if the need arose. Was more of a curiosity point than anything really...

silentshooter
01-19-2013, 03:23
My LWRC REPR (308) shoots Sub MOA with 168 & 175 grain rounds. I have had it shoot just under 1/2 MOA in a 5 shot group before at the indoor range.

mb504
01-19-2013, 03:53
This will beat many bolt guns... http://www.lesbaer.com/223varmint.html


We'll guarantee that our Super Varmint Model will shoot 1/2 MOA groups!


Their 308 semis have the same

Bailey Guns
01-19-2013, 08:15
I'm not convinced there's any practical difference in accuracy between an off-the-rack AR and an off-the-rack bolt gun. Maybe for a very small percentage of really good shooters...but for the average/above average shooter? Probably negligible.

Most guns are far more capable than most shooters.

silentshooter
01-19-2013, 08:33
I'm not convinced there's any practical difference in accuracy between an off-the-rack AR and an off-the-rack bolt gun. Maybe for a very small percentage of really good shooters...but for the average/above average shooter? Probably negligible.

Most guns are far more capable than most shooters.


Unless we are talking high ends like an AI, McMillan, etc. I would say your average bolt gun is a 1 moa rifle, and a quality AR should be close.

Gman
01-19-2013, 09:38
Most guns are far more capable than most shooters.
+1

Delfuego
01-19-2013, 12:25
MOA or sub-moa AR's at 100 yard are not necessarily still moa guns when you stretch them out to 500-600 yards either. If all you want is good groups at 100 yard then its a pretty easy recipe. At 800 yards and beyond things change dramatically.

centrarchidae
01-20-2013, 03:19
Depends on the AR. My Sabre, 1:7 CL medium-contour barrel will put almost any 68-69gr Black Hills round into MOA-ish, and 2 MOA with PMC 55gr .223.

My old just-as-good-as-a-Colt Bushmaster sucked so badly, I could throw the damn thing down the stairs and miss the basement floor. (It also was a bolt-action, mostly because of the fine stake job on the gas key.)

Troublco
01-20-2013, 10:03
Depends on the AR. My Sabre, 1:7 CL medium-contour barrel will put almost any 68-69gr Black Hills round into MOA-ish, and 2 MOA with PMC 55gr .223.

My old just-as-good-as-a-Colt Bushmaster sucked so badly, I could throw the damn thing down the stairs and miss the basement floor. (It also was a bolt-action, mostly because of the fine stake job on the gas key.)

My Colt 6721(?) converted-into-an-SPR (before I got it) with a 1-9" 16" barrel shoots close to MOA out to 400 yards, and 1.5 out to at least 600. I was going to rebarrel it to make it a proper SPR but it shoots so darn good I just couldn't make myself do it; I'd take it out and ring a 6" steel target all day at 400 yards, with white box winchester 5.56. Now, you take my Colt HBAR Match Target pre-ban 1/7" with freefloat tube and 1/4 minute sights and it most definitely will NOT do this with this ammo. Not quite on subject; but I had a Korean-era M1 Garand from the CMP that shot MOA at 300 yards with Greek surplus ammo too. There are some kick-butt semi-autos out there, and not all of them are high dollar pieces. Sometimes you just get lucky.

dwalker460
01-20-2013, 21:36
Went to the range today. The 6mmx45 AR shot sub MOA with 55gr Sierra Blitz Kings over Xterminator, three round group with all bullets touching The 95gr Nosler Ballistic tips over XTerminator were almost as good, but need a little more work. . The 5.56 AR shooting 55gr Hornady V-max over CFE223 shot 1" groups. Conditions were sunny, light wind left to right, 50deg ambient.

6mm AR is a BHW stainless 16" barrel, 5.56 gun is a 16" Wilson Barrel. "Stock" triggers on both. Glass- 6mmx45 is a 6x18 50mm Bushnell, 5.56 is a 4x16 40mm Simmons.

sniper7
01-20-2013, 23:15
just look at LaRue Tactical. their OBR 7.62 consistently gives sub MOA 5 shot groups. pretty damn good if you ask me.