View Full Version : An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power - interesting article.
Not trying to start a war about who's ammo is better. I did find this article interesting. Esp the part about the .22lr and the 9mm hit count.
An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866
buffalobo
01-20-2013, 14:47
Good read.
Any gun will do, if you will do.
dogbreath650
01-20-2013, 15:22
What I got out of it is - having a gun and being able to hit what you are aiming at is much more important than caliber, as far as stopping power... I guess that means I need to get out and practice more rather than worrying about finding the perfect carry piece...
Yeah, that is what I got out of it too. I personally would not own a .45 CCW weapon. But that is because I personally don't think I would be able to get a good follow up shot with something that was small enough to conceal. Same goes with a .40 mainly because they feel so snappy. While I don't doubt their capabilities, I doubt mine for controlling the smaller CCW firearm. We need a CCW .22 with 30 rounds. LOL
Hmm, so it takes more than one bullet to stop a gunfight and shooting someone in the hand with a .45 won't make their heart explode? I'm not a doctor or nothing but...
Is there a funny story I am missing about the hand heart .45 reference?
Singlestack
01-20-2013, 16:00
Yeah, that is what I got out of it too. I personally would not own a .45 CCW weapon. But that is because I personally don't think I would be able to get a good follow up shot with something that was small enough to conceal. Same goes with a .40 mainly because they feel so snappy. While I don't doubt their capabilities, I doubt mine for controlling the smaller CCW firearm. We need a CCW .22 with 30 rounds. LOL
Well, there is the Kel-Tec PMR 30 - 30 rounds of 22 WMR in a skinny plastic gun! http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/pmr-30/
That would be a fun gun to have for target practice. A little to big for my frame size to be CCW-able. One day I am going to pick up a PF-9. Well that seems to be what I am leaning towards. Just have too many other things that are taking precedence money wise right now.
hollohas
01-20-2013, 16:37
What I got out of it is - having a gun and being able to hit what you are aiming at is much more important than caliber, as far as stopping power... .
Anytime someone asks "what caliber should I use for big game?" The response is "shot placement is the most important factor. Shoot accurately and any of the popular calibers will work." If that's our answer for big game, why should it be any different for a two legged animal?
That said, that Mom in GA put five .38 special in that dudes face and neck and he lived...he stopped attacking, which is the goal, but he lived. Great shot placement if you ask me. However I have a hard time believing he would have lived with five 9, 40, 45, etc. in the face region.
The .38 special works fine. The issue there was likely due to ammo selection. 4 clean pass throughs.
The .38 special works fine. The issue there was likely due to ammo selection. 4 clean pass throughs.
This.
I'm willing to bet she had the cheapest range loaded FMJ rounds in it. If she had some heavier JHP defense loaded rounds he would have been dead on scene. Even with as much crap as the .380 auto gets, you can still easily kill someone if you have the right round given how close most confrontations requiring you to draw a concealed handgun are.
<MADDOG>
01-20-2013, 18:41
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA
SA Friday
01-20-2013, 18:48
This is a duplicate post, but I'm too lazy to look up the older thread.
Sorry a friend of my from VT posted it on FB today.
Thanks for posting the video.
This is the rule of holes for handguns; Bigger holes are better than smaller holes and more holes are better than fewer holes.
One day I am going to pick up a PF-9. Well that seems to be what I am leaning towards.
If you are concerned with recoil, you may want to shoot one before purchasing. These are downright brutal on your hands. That said, any pistol can be manageable if you have the correct grip and posture.
If you are going to carry, please please please learn to shoot. And not just standing in a lane trying to hit the bulls-eye without any stress or time constraints.
sneakerd
01-21-2013, 10:01
It's not the size of the pill- it's shot placement.
dogbreath650
01-21-2013, 10:06
Thanks for posting the video.
This is the rule of holes for handguns; Bigger holes are better than smaller holes and more holes are better than fewer holes.
And holes in the right places are best of all...[Beer]
If you are concerned with recoil, you may want to shoot one before purchasing. These are downright brutal on your hands. That said, any pistol can be manageable if you have the correct grip and posture.
If you are going to carry, please please please learn to shoot. And not just standing in a lane trying to hit the bulls-eye without any stress or time constraints.
Yeah, I hear they are pretty brutal. Which most likely has to do with the size and the lack of mass in the weapon. I am going to try a friends before I ever purchase one just to make sure. I also believe in practicing with what you own, not just owning it and never firing it. I had an M&P compact before. It was a great weapon just too bulky for my frame and clothing choices.
It can't be as bad as one of those tiny S&W scandium framed revolvers in .357 Magnum. ;)
I agree that shot placement is key, but the chances that you will hit something vital enough to stop the fight in 1 shot are not in your favor. Most of the time, it's blood loss that stops the attacker.
Interesting and still not conclusive but food for thought.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power
GlockDog47
01-27-2013, 06:50
That is a good read . Thanks
Great-Kazoo
01-27-2013, 08:24
It's alright Except for the one factor everyone omits, Drug induced assailants. An encounter with any "medicated" attacked and all bets are off.
Nice read, only thing I'm concerned about is combining .357 mag and .357 Sig in the same sample. These are not the same rounds, if anything .357 mag and .38 special could have been combined, but not the Sig round.
This seemed to me to be the most revealing chart, as it lumps most of the other effects into the ultimate goal of incapacitating the attacker.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/publicfiles/Ellifritz_Failure_to_Incap.png
Interesting and still not conclusive but food for thought.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power
Thanks for sharing.
It's alright Except for the one factor everyone omits, Drug induced assailants. An encounter with any "medicated" attacked and all bets are off.
You'd think a study would break that out. There has to be a high percentage of medicated assailants...
Too big of a variance for drugs, you'd have no sample that you could trust. What's a guy on PCP going to be like vs one on cannabis, or one on heroin? Too many drugs that do different things to different people.
Great-Kazoo
01-27-2013, 11:08
Too big of a variance for drugs, you'd have no sample that you could trust. What's a guy on PCP going to be like vs one on cannabis, or one on heroin? Too many drugs that do different things to different people.
The "facts" as told to me from reliable LE both alive and no longer with us says. weed smokers very rarely get involved in anything that once a firearm is produced stops the incident. Not talking cartel weed movers just the local college kid.
The PCP, meth, heroin types, well multiple hits and still up w/out any brain registering of shots, even fatal ones would give ya nightmares i tell ya. Granted they are not on the radar of most "caliber stopping power" test.
I know one guy in the 28pct (harlem) it took 36 uniforms to subdue a dusted out perp .
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