Grand Cherokee vs. 4runner Trail

[buckeye4rnr]

My next vehicle has been narrowed down to a 2013 GC or 4runner Trail, can anyone provide insight to sway me to one side? I know buying used is a better option but I plan on keeping this vehicle for as long as it'll run so I'm not afraid to have a payment for a little bit.

Itll be my daily driver and will get me to all of the 14er trailheads, haul my mountain bike around, and everything else my 9 year old G35 Coupe can't do.

Ive read everything available comparing the two but most are from heavily biased forums for Toyotas or Jeeps so any real experiences from members here would be great.

P.s. I know the T4R is ugly as hell but for some strange reason I kinda like it and I don't need a pretty car as long a it gets me where I want to go.

[jerrymrc]

I will commend you on your bravery. Most places the Jeep Vs Toyota is right up there with the 9 vs 45 one. Let me grab my[Pop]

[cmailliard]

I have had two Jeep Grand Cherokee's and will never buy another one. My current is a 2006. It needed a new transmission at 70,000 miles and now at 150,000 needs another. I look back and should have bought a 4Runner. Never had a 4Runner but everyone I know that has one loves it. I like the Jeep's but it seems like it a money pit.

[theGinsue]

The Jeep GC is notorious for piss poor paint jobs and severe maintain issues. But, don't buy a 4Runner in the 1st year they've made significant changes - I learned that the hard way.

[The Nuge]

I have two toyota land cruisers, and I have been out on the trail many times to even count. Toyotas are beasts. Jeeps are always breaking down on the trail.

[02ducky]

+1 for s 4runner, I have one, if I had a choice I would have a truck tho.

[buckeye4rnr]

+1 for s 4runner, I have one, if I had a choice I would have a truck tho.


What kind of truck? I had been looking at a Tacoma but I'd want to put a cap on it and visibility wasn't as great as a 4runner when the cap was on.

[buckeye4rnr]

The Jeep GC is notorious for piss poor paint jobs and severe maintain issues. But, don't buy a 4Runner in the 1st year they've made significant changes - I learned that the hard way.


That sucks. Luckily the newest has been out since 2010 and I haven't read about too many issues so far. Mostly rattles.

[streetglideok]

My next vehicle has been narrowed down to a 2013 GC or 4runner Trail, can anyone provide insight to sway me to one side? I know buying used is a better option but I plan on keeping this vehicle for as long as it'll run so I'm not afraid to have a payment for a little bit.

Itll be my daily driver and will get me to all of the 14er trailheads, haul my mountain bike around, and everything else my 9 year old G35 Coupe can't do.

Ive read everything available comparing the two but most are from heavily biased forums for Toyotas or Jeeps so any real experiences from members here would be great.

P.s. I know the T4R is ugly as hell but for some strange reason I kinda like it and I don't need a pretty car as long a it gets me where I want to go.

All honesty, 6 one way, half dozen the other. I own a jeep myself, with no issues. Ive seen, and repaired plenty of jeeps. I've also seen and worked on plenty of 'yotas. Despite popular belief, they break down as well. I think a big factor has to do with demographics of the owners. Alot of jeep owners drive them till the wheels fall off, then worry about fixing stuff. Japanese brand owners tend to stay up on maintenance better. Toyota has had plenty of quality issues, some of which the media kept buried. Bad headgaskets, sludging motors, you name it. WHen they break, they tend to be pricier to fix.

[Daniel_187]

My mom's 02 jeep Grand Cherokee needed a new tranny at 98K, and $700 dollars in break work and gets really shitty MPGs. I like the 4runners.

[DD977GM2]

Why anyone would buy anything from GM or Dodge is beyond me.

I have worked in the oilfield the last 6 years and been through about 6 trucks. Dodge & Chevy and a GM.
Granted they are not a Cherokee, but once they got close to or hit 100k miles, they took a shit.
I was so concerned with this, I had a survival kit in my truck for the inevitable breakdown 30-40 miles form civilization and
I was forced to walk out once in the winter. Thankfully I had my mountaineering equipment including a sleeping bag and 2 man tent
and the walk wasnt to bad once first light came and set foot out during the day. This was in west Wyoming with little to no traffic.
I have a Tacoma I have beat to hell harder then those work trucks, because I turst it more, and I am at 110k
and it is holding up mechanically like it has 10k miles on it.

Spend the extra on the 4 Runner and we wont be reading a thread created by you saying how big of a piece of shit the Cherokee is.
I promise you , you wont be dissapointed in the 4Runner. The 4 Runner will easily last 250k miles with minimal routine maintenance.

[motorep]

Grand Cherokees are overweight highway vehicles now. I've owned two, and many Cherokees before those. I'd still drive a regular Cherokee if they made them. Get an XTerra.

[buckeye4rnr]

Why anyone would buy anything from GM or Dodge is beyond me.

I have worked in the oilfield the last 6 years and been through about 6 trucks. Didge & Chevy and a GM.
Granted they are not a Cherokee, but once they got close to or hit 100k miles, they took a shit.
I have a Tacoma I have beat to hell harder then those work trucks, because I turst it more, and I am at 110k
and it is holding up mechanically like it has 10k miles on it.

Spend the extra on the 4 Runner and we wont be reading a thread created by you saying how big of a piece of shit the Cherokee is.
I promise you , you wont be dissapointed in the 4Runner. The 4 Runner will easily last 250k miles with minimal routine maintenance.

Haha. The 250k is good to hear as I'd love to get over 300 just to rub it in everyone's face because no one thinks I'll keep a car that long. I've had my current car 5 years and recently got rid of 9 year old undershirts, 300k should be easy with the right vehicle.

[DD977GM2]

The only thing I dislike about my Tacoma is I paid a shitload of money and it doesnt have auto headlights and the interior is kind of Chevy Cavalierish

Its not necessarily cheap but it isnt close to $25k worht either.

[Ghosty]

Glad to see a lot of Yota fans here. I don't know about this latest generation of 4R, but I've personally owned five Toyota 4x4's, incl. '86 Turbo Pickup, '97 4R, '98 Taco, '96 4R, & now a '99 4R. I don't know if I'll ever buy another brand. I actually think the latest 4R is badass looking in the right color, way cooler than the last . Just need a little bigger wheels & tires and a mild lift, bam! Personal opinion, I hate the 4th gen (think it's ugly), but love the 5th gen.

Looks like the JGC and 4R both get 23mpg hwy so pump expense will be the same for commuting. Unless you're getting the SRT8, I'd pick the 4R, especially for reliability. Shit, with Toyotas, the first 100k miles is practically just a break-in period, lol!

Right now I'm debating on staying out of debt and lifting my '99 4R, or selling it to get a new 4R or Tundra, ugh. I HATE LOANS!

[kwando]

Yota!

/close thread

[dwalker460]

Porsche Cayenne S.

My 06 Cayenne S has needed no maintenance beyond brakes (once at 85K) and oil changes. Coming up on 120k, and the "full maintenance" of sparking plugs, trans/diff/etc fluids, etc. which will likely cost me a couple of grand. It goes literally everywhere I have ever needed it to and it comes with air ride which raises it 3" of ride height and lowers it 1" from normal for trails or highway cruising, all three diffs- front, center, and rear lock with a touch of the console mounted switch and the traction control is so good that if ONE wheel is touching the ground, your moving. The Turbo model was offered with swaybars that electronically disconnected for articulation, but I havent needed it so far. Did I mention the heated leather seats, heated steering wheel, nav, and a climate control that works? the 400hp V8 isnt a bad thing either.

It has seriously been an awesome vehicle. Purchased it for $25K 2 years ago from the Porsche dealer that had sold it to the original owner, who traded it in on another Cayenne, all factory maintenance. There is literally no reason I would ever get rid of this car.

[10mm-man]

I was on the trail today and caught up with these guys, this GC was one capable rig! My Rubi is in the background on one of the pic's.....

Edit: i think it was a GC, or is it just a Cherokee?

[buckeye4rnr]

I was on the trail today and caught up with these guys, this GC was one capable rig! My Rubi is in the background on one of the pic's.....

Edit: i think it was a GC, or is it just a Cherokee?

That's a GC. Sick pictures

[Ghosty]

It has seriously been an awesome vehicle. Purchased it for $25K 2 years ago from the Porsche dealer that had sold it to the original owner, who traded it in on another Cayenne, all factory maintenance. There is literally no reason I would ever get rid of this car.
Damn, didn't know you could get the Cayenne S for so cheap, nice.

[ruthabagah]

4 runner all the way.... BUT make sure you either buy the 500$ TRD air filter kit or get a KN filter ASAP. I love my 2010, but I found it underpowered, and the MPG was not nearly as good as my 06 4 runner. Did a little bit of research, upgraded to the KN air filter box: It's like driving another vehicle and Gas mileage improved 2 MPG on average!

[streetglideok]

Those with jeep transmissions going out with less than 100k on them, how often was the fluid changed on them, and did you use the correct mopar +4 fluid? Overall, both toyotas and jeeps are sound vehicles. Make sure someone decent works on them, and keep the backyard hacks away from them. Keep the oil changed in them regularly, as spelled out in the maintenance schedule. Though I have nothing against toyotas, I think they are highly over rated, and overpriced, and some jeeps fall into that ranking as well.

[10mm-man]

I think they are highly over rated, and overpriced, and some jeeps fall into that ranking as well.

Name one JEEP! lol

[roberth]

4Runner. the end.

[hurley842002]

I have two toyota land cruisers, and I have been out on the trail many times to even count. Toyotas are beasts. Jeeps are always breaking down on the trail.

I'll beg to differ, but I can't comment on newer Jeeps, my 88, 91, 99, and 01 Jeeps have always been awesome, I've beat the hell out of them, and then driven them to work the next day.

[hatidua]

My Y2K Jeep Grand Cherokee has 182K on it with no serious maintenance issues yet. My wife's Y2K Grand Cherokee has 137K miles on it - we had to replace the A/C condenser on it back in '05.

[Delfuego]

Get an XTerra.[ROFL3]Dont ever buy an Xterra or a Pathfinder.

Buy a used 4runner and drive it till the wheels fall off. Mine has 225 and going strong and still has resale value.

PM me if you need a shop. My shooting partner is a Toyota master mechanic and can check out a used vehicle before you buy it.

[The Nuge]

I'll beg to differ, but I can't comment on newer Jeeps, my 88, 91, 99, and 01 Jeeps have always been awesome, I've beat the hell out of them, and then driven them to work the next day.

If they are so good why do you have to keep replacing them? [LOL]

[10mm-man]

If they are so good why do you have to keep replacing them? [LOL]


This coming from the NEWB calling himself " the Nuge" [ROFL2][ROFL3]

[porfiriozg]

for your consideration. toyota but only pre 2000

i got a 94 toyota pick up with over 260,000 miles, on original engine and transmission. it took a hit last month and still running

[The Nuge]

This coming from the NEWB calling himself " the Nuge" [ROFL2][ROFL3]

My forum name and the fact that jeeps suck is unrelated. For what it is worth I have been shooting 1911 since age 5.

[10mm-man]

My forum name and the fact that jeeps suck is unrelated.


True,

[Ghosty]

I dunno, the new 4door Rubicons with the Pentastar motor are pretty nice.

[10mm-man]

I dunno, the new 4door Rubicons with the Pentastar motor are pretty nice.


^^^+1

[hatidua]

For what it is worth I have been shooting 1911 since age 5.

I'm struggling to see the relevance of that in a Toyota vs Jeep debate. But cool story nonetheless...

[hurley842002]

If they are so good why do you have to keep replacing them? [LOL]

Who said anything about replacing? We know what ASSuming does.....

[sneakerd]

Any Toyota 4Runner will outlast any AMC/Chrysler product at LEAST 2 to 1.

[hurley842002]

For the record I love Toyotas also, I've owned two (80's 4runner and pickup). If they didn't hold their value so well, I'd have a nice newer Tacoma.

[10mm-man]

For the record I love Toyotas also, I've owned two (80's 4runner and pickup). If they didn't hold their value so well, I'd have a nice newer Tacoma.

I never owned a Toyota because I never liked the fact they weren't American but I think that might have changed, not sure? So can someone tell me what percentage is American? I noticed my 2013 Rubi was like US/Canadian parts contend of 73%. So I am just wondering which is more AMERICAN? Anyone?

[spyder]

I vote this guy
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h403/asrspyder/DSCN4264.jpg

[10mm-man]

O look what i found:

The 2013 Toyota 4Runner is ranked:



#20
#20 in Affordable Midsize SUVs (http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Affordable-Midsize-SUVs/)

#13
# 13 in Off-Road SUVs (http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Off-Road-SUVs/)

Let's see, which is rated higher? humm

[BigDee]

Ill take the Toyota for long term ownership. I'm about to be in the market for an SUV and the Sequoia is on the top of our list.

Over the years I've owned 2 Dodge Durango's (Same drive train as Jeep GC) and replaced the transmission in both of them. I changed the fluid in them at the suggested intervals and in both cases the trannys went out shortly after the tranny service had been completed.

I recommend you go with the 4 runner. I have several friends with 4 runners and none of them has a single bad thing to say about them.

[roberth]

O look what i found:

The 2013 Toyota 4Runner is ranked:



#20
#20 in Affordable Midsize SUVs (http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Affordable-Midsize-SUVs/)

#13
# 13 in Off-Road SUVs (http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Off-Road-SUVs/)

Let's see, which is rated higher? humm

The first true off-road vehicle in the first list is the Toyota FJ, the rest are cars with lift kits until you get to the 4Runner.

The second list has Range Rover's listed which have frequent incredible maintenance costs. The Toyota Land Cruiser is a large, capable, expensive vehicle. The Wrangler is rated #12 but I'd put it at #1. Who made these lists? Do they know anything about off-road or are they just some hack in New York City who doesn't even own a car.

One more thing to remember, Chrysler owes its existence to the USG. Never forget what the USG did to the Chrysler bondholders.

http://charlesrowley.com/2010/06/04/june-10-2009-barack-obama-loots-chrysler-bondholders/


The bankruptcy came in a new illegal form run by a corrupt federal government. The United Auto Workers Group, who owned no interest whatsoever in Chrysler, was gifted a 55 per cent interest valued at $4.5 billion. This gift was all the more remarkable because the UAW had been largely responsible for bankrupting the corporation in the first place. When no company came forward to purchase the corporation, after a minute passage of time, the Obama administration gave a 20 per cent interest away for free to Fiat, a third-rate Italian auto producer. It then took a sizeable slice of the corporation for itself, before tossing the remnants back to the secured bondholders.

[wax_job]

2013 GC is super slick... This new body style has rekindled my like for Jeep GC since the 80's

[theboomboom]

For what you're doing, in all honesty, either should work fine for you.

That being said, I swear by Toyotas and think that if this is a vehicle that you plan on keeping a long time, the 4Runner will treat you right.

[spyder]

If you want a true unbiased look into each, wait till Petersons Off Road does a comparrison. Till then, you are just looking at opinions (this goes for the major magazines too). I hear the rubicon is getting a third row seat, so, maybe that could be a #3 to your list?

The Wrangler took #1 again this year...
http://www.trendzcar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2013-Jeep-Wrangler-Unlimited-Moab-Front-Angle-1-600x450.jpg

[Goodburbon]

I own cherokees.
1. Stop calling grand cherokees "cherokees." They aren't.
2. Ive got a cherokee with 200k on it. Still running strong and all of the problems are, and have been because i drive some serious trails.
3. The old zj and wj were very capable. But There were transmission issues. New ones are an unknown.
4. New for new id go yota.

The new f150 with the turbo 6 and locking rear diff is a better option. Comfortable, powerful, capable,roomy,quiet and with no hit in mpg versus the tacoma.

Remember. The epa mileage test is waaaaay off, esp for mountain drivers. 23 doesnt mean 23 it means 23 on flat ground with no wind going 60.

[Madeinhb]

I dunno, the new 4door Rubicons with the Pentastar motor are pretty nice.

Yea but they don't have the 8 speed transmission yet. Once they get that, they will be much better.

[Delfuego]

If you want to rock-crawl get a Rubicon (and be prepared to pay!). If you dont, get the 4runner and give it to your kids in 15 years.

[strm_trpr]

My parents have a 2012 GC overland with the v6. It is so comfortable on the highways it feels like a nice cruser sedan, but it is also quite good off road. The adjustable suspension is super cool and useful!.

[U81I812]

Past Cherokees and Grand Cherokees were built with unibody chassis, not sure if they upgraded to new ones to a full frame. Just about all Cherokees would start getting body sag as the vehicle got older, you would have to lift up on the door to close it. Past 4Runners were build with full tubular frames, pretty sure the new ones are built the same.

Personally I wouldn't consider a unibody for even a occational off road vehicle.

[Ghosty]

I vote this guy
That "Fishing Team" Tundra is sick. I also love the Wrangler 4door in white with white hardtop. Saw one downtown last weekend, so nice! So glad they started coming out with color-matched tops instead of just black.

[Goodburbon]

Past Cherokees and Grand Cherokees were built with unibody chassis, not sure if they upgraded to new ones to a full frame. Just about all Cherokees would start getting body sag as the vehicle got older, you would have to lift up on the door to close it. Past 4Runners were build with full tubular frames, pretty sure the new ones are built the same.

Personally I wouldn't consider a unibody for even a occational off road vehicle.

You'd be missing out.

[Ronin13]

I honestly don't think the new 4Runner is ugly- I think it looks pretty nice. Having owned a 4Runner ('00), and my brother owns a Jeep GC (2002), I like the Toyotas better- they last longer, are a little bit better for fuel (at least in the older ones, the bro's Jeep is a thirsty V8 beast, whereas the Yota was a 6 cyl). Mark me down for the Toyota...

[funkymonkey1111]

O look what i found:

The 2013 Toyota 4Runner is ranked:



#20
#20 in Affordable Midsize SUVs (http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Affordable-Midsize-SUVs/)

#13
# 13 in Off-Road SUVs (http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Off-Road-SUVs/)

Let's see, which is rated higher? humm

From the "list": "For the relatively few drivers who require an all-conquering, all-terrain SUV, the Toyota 4Runner is a top choice. Those city folk who need more passenger space and less off-road capability would be better served by a car-based crossover SUV."

Thanks for the tip--your great citation to the list settled the argument here.

[BlasterBob]

We have a 2010 Tundra Crewmax. Great truck and rides like a limo. Has only 50,000 miles on it and have/had only two problems with it. 1. Damn low tire sensor light on constantly even with proper tire pressure. So, tire air module was replaced. Cost for the fix was about $130 for that little farting part which did at least include it's installation. 2. Has been pulling to the right so had front end realigned but is still pulling to the right even on a level road with very little crown to it and NO cross winds. The mechanic indicated that the alignment is right but it could be a slightly defective tire. Original tires were replaced about 1,000 miles ago with Goodyear Wrangler DuraMax with some very aggressive tread. Other than that, the Tundra has been very satisfactory (for me) with the exception of the pulling to the right which just bugs the hell out of me. Yeah I know, this isn't a 4runner but it is a TOYOTA.[blaster]

[The Nuge]

If you want a true unbiased look into each, wait till Petersons Off Road does a comparrison. Till then, you are just looking at opinions (this goes for the major magazines too). I hear the rubicon is getting a third row seat, so, maybe that could be a #3 to your list?

The Wrangler took #1 again this year...
http://www.trendzcar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2013-Jeep-Wrangler-Unlimited-Moab-Front-Angle-1-600x450.jpg

Spyder makes a good point to look at the reviews. My only caution to you would be to really read the articles. Peterson is fair, but some are geared to Jeepers. Here is a magazine that the Toyota community goes to, to get it's fix. www.4wdtoyotaowner.com

[Ghosty]

That reminds me, another reason you might consider the 4door Wrangler instead of GC is it's as close as you're gonna get to a "convertible" SUV. Great fun in the Summer, my buddy had a 4door Islander. Fun cruising around with the entire top off and all windows open. I'm guessing your wife/kids would love that too.

[reapur]

I have a 2000 4Runner, bought it new. It's totally modified and lifted with armor all around, it's been rock crawling to almost every trail in the state, the under side armor is dinged and scraped it will make you laugh. I can still hit 85 just coming down the on ramp on harmony road, a big feat for such an old heavy girl wearing 33" shoes. Besides oil changes (engine transmission, diffs) I've only had the timing belt and water pump changed. Looks new and runs like new. If toyota kept this level of quality then I would recommend a 4runner.

[ChunkyMonkey]

There is a reason why miners/oilers use toyota in the outback of Australian desert, tropical jungle of SE Asia, and all over Africa. If you want to be a backyard mechanic, then yes, get the jeep. [LOL]

[buckeye4rnr]

I think I'm going to get the 4Runner. As good looking as the GC is, I like the rugged look of the T4R and since I'm going to buy it I plan to keep it for a real long time so dependability is important.

Now I've just gotta hope I get a solid raise and start looking for one in black or metallic gray with the KDSS system.

[Dave_L]

I picked up an '06 Tacoma last year. I love it. I don't ever plan on selling it.

[10mm-man]

If you want a true unbiased look into each, wait till Petersons Off Road does a comparrison. Till then, you are just looking at opinions (this goes for the major magazines too). I hear the rubicon is getting a third row seat, so, maybe that could be a #3 to your list?

The Wrangler took #1 again this year...
http://www.trendzcar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2013-Jeep-Wrangler-Unlimited-Moab-Front-Angle-1-600x450.jpg

This is why I got mine! But I did see Toyota's all over the trail yesterday, NOT!! Toy's are pavement queens, nothing more!

You'll have fun driving to the mall, nothing more....

Buy a real vehicle and get a RUBI!

Comfort, Looks good and un-stoppable on the trail!!

[Dave_L]

This is why I got mine! But I did see Toyota's all over the trail yesterday, NOT!! Toy's are pavement queens, nothing more!

You'll have fun driving to the mall, nothing more....

Buy a real vehicle and get a RUBI!

Comfort, Looks good and un-stoppable on the trail!!

Lol...I know more "mall rated" Jeeps than Toyotas. It's all personal preference. I know plenty of capable Jeeps and Toyotas. I've owned both and I've become more fond of my Toyota than I did my Jeeps. Jeeps do seem to have a cheaper repair bill because of the compatibility of parts over the years. I don't know how that holds true with the newer Jeeps.

[10mm-man]

Lol...I know more "mall rated" Jeeps than Toyotas. It's all personal preference. I know plenty of capable Jeeps and Toyotas. I've owned both and I've become more fond of my Toyota than I did my Jeeps. Jeeps do seem to have a cheaper repair bill because of the compatibility of parts over the years. I don't know how that holds true with the newer Jeeps.


I knew that someone would respond like you and I agree! Did anyone answer my earlier thread of which is more "American" as in build and parts? do you know?

[Dave_L]

I knew that someone would respond like you and I agree! Did anyone answer my earlier thread of which is more "American" as in build and parts? do you know?

:D Fell right into your trap. I'm in C rock also. I'll keep an eye out for your Rubi. I'm in a lifted blue double cab Tacoma.

[10mm-man]

:D Fell right into your trap. I'm in C rock also. I'll keep an eye out for your Rubi. I'm in a lifted blue double cab Tacoma.


I will try not to roll over ya!! [Beer]

There are two black Rubi's, one is a former neighbor, mine has the silver on the rims..... Not for long though I am gonna sell em and go with steel basic black rims..

[DD977GM2]

I knew that someone would respond like you and I agree! Did anyone answer my earlier thread of which is more "American" as in build and parts? do you know?


Tacomas and I am guessing 4 Runners are made in America by NON UNION work. So it is more American then most GM, Chrysler or Dodge vehicles.

[10mm-man]

Tacomas and I am guessing 4 Runners are made in America by NON UNION work. So it is more American then most GM, Chrysler or Dodge vehicles.


I would like to see that "proof", thought all cars were union made,??

[funkymonkey1111]

Tacomas and I am guessing 4 Runners are made in America by NON UNION work. So it is more American then most GM, Chrysler or Dodge vehicles.

I cannot say for the new 4runners, but in 2010 they were 100% japanese. the tacoma and tundra were built in the US

[funkymonkey1111]

I would like to see that "proof", thought all cars were union made,??

Most turds with an American brand name, sure--except maybe the ones outsourced to avoid the unions. "Foreign" brands--not so much:

http://conservativefactcheck.com/content/articles/Buying_a_US-built_non-union_car

[10mm-man]

Most turds with an American brand name, sure--except maybe the ones outsourced to avoid the unions. "Foreign" brands--not so much:

http://conservativefactcheck.com/content/articles/Buying_a_US-built_non-union_car


That is good to know that they "Assemble" them with non union but are they American parts or just non union. Let's say like that Toyota or BMW that is assembled non union, but were are the parts made? Like say the motor? I like the fact the Penstar is AMERICAN made, union or not I still employ an AMERICAN to make it. Union or not!

[buckeye4rnr]

I cannot say for the new 4runners, but in 2010 they were 100% japanese. the tacoma and tundra were built in the US

I think the majority of the 4runner is built in Japan. Could be wrong but I thought the sticker said something like 80% of it came from overseas.

[Haroldlutsen]

Glad to see a lot of Yota fans here. I don't know about this latest generation of 4R, but I've personally owned five Toyota 4x4's, incl. '86 Turbo Pickup, '97 4R, '98 Taco, '96 4R, & now a '99 4R. I don't know if I'll ever buy another brand. I actually think the latest 4R is badass looking in the right color, way cooler than the last . Just need a little bigger wheels & tires and a mild lift, bam! Personal opinion, I hate the 4th gen (think it's ugly), but love the 5th gen.

Looks like the JGC and 4R both get 23mpg hwy so pump expense will be the same for commuting. Unless you're getting the SRT8, I'd pick the 4R, especially for reliability. Shit, with Toyotas, the first 100k miles is practically just a break-in period, lol!

Right now I'm debating on staying out of debt and lifting my '99 4R, or selling it to get a new 4R or Tundra, ugh. I HATE LOANS!

What in the world is with all this foreign vehicle love I live in Missouri and am not from Colorado but enjoy your forum most of the time but all this Toyota talk sickens me I personally have had 3 jeep GCs 97-02-05 All were very dependable and actually still own 2 of them and would not hesitate in buying another. The American made cars are every bit as good as jap stuff or even worse Korean cars. The only reason we have American made Toyotas is we buy them! buy American and show some pride and we will replace the Toyota plants with ford and Chevy and possibly help our country here in St. Louis we have lost 3 car plants closed forever, it burns me when I see so many foreign cars your not gonna hurt anybody or p.o anybody by buying American have some sense, remember your parents and grandparents fought and some died have some respect

[funkymonkey1111]

What in the world is with all this foreign vehicle love I live in Missouri and am not from Colorado but enjoy your forum most of the time but all this Toyota talk sickens me I personally have had 3 jeep GCs 97-02-05 All were very dependable and actually still own 2 of them and would not hesitate in buying another. The American made cars are every bit as good as jap stuff or even worse Korean cars. The only reason we have American made Toyotas is we buy them! buy American and show some pride and we will replace the Toyota plants with ford and Chevy and possibly help our country here in St. Louis we have lost 3 car plants closed forever, it burns me when I see so many foreign cars your not gonna hurt anybody or p.o anybody by buying American have some sense, remember your parents and grandparents fought and some died have some respect

Your ignorance and opposition to the American worker, and support of Government Motors sickens me. Interesting that Chrysler moved mini-van production from St. Louis to Canada. Wonder why that was?

[Ghosty]

Meh, I had a 90's Yukon for a year. NEVER AGAIN, what a piece of shit. And only 125k miles and it had issues like a 250k mile Yota would've had. No thanks. Maybe the newer ones are good, but I've heard nothing but horror stories from buddies with Ford truck trannies, Dodge truck trannies. And American interiors are so plastic and stuck in the 90's, they're only recently coming up to date, something the Japs learned a decade ago.

I'm a Patriot, and love my country, and I'll be glad to give the big three another chance, if they can prove it to me. I would love to try a Ford Raptor and the new Explorers are badass looking. I'd also give a new Wrangler a try. I hope they've improved the drivetrain quality in the last few years, and hope the interiors are also up to snuff finally! For a new musclecar I'd love a Vette, Camaro, or tricked out Stang GT.

For you to be "sickened" by people speaking highly of Toyota HIGH-QUALITY and reliability, you really don't do your argument much justice.

[patrick0685]

4Runner gets my vote...I've got a 2000 4R with 185K+ miles on it going strong and we just picked up a '12 Taco both are awesome and I wouldnt replace them with anything. I had an ex with a GC with over 200K+ that thing was a piece though, I wouldnt trust it to make it across Denver

[10mm-man]

Your ignorance and opposition to the American worker, and support of Government Motors sickens me. Interesting that Chrysler moved mini-van production from St. Louis to Canada. Wonder why that was?


Wait, what? So you gladly love buying foreign cars, Interesting......... Are you foreign born, just wondering?

[The Nuge]

I would rather buy a car from a Japenese company that makes cars in the US, rather than an American company that I had to bail out and now is going to be built in China.

[patrick0685]

Tacomas and I am guessing 4 Runners are made in America by NON UNION work. So it is more American then most GM, Chrysler or Dodge vehicles.

most Tacomas are made in the states, mines out of TX, I think that all 4Runners are made in Japan

[10mm-man]

I had an ex with a GC with over 200K+ that thing was a piece though, I wouldnt trust it to make it across Denver

I would much rather buy American cars than give me $$$ to a foreign owned Multi national Corp...........

[10mm-man]

I would rather buy a car from a Japenese company that makes cars in the US, rather than an American company that I had to bail out and now is going to be built in China.


You didn't bail any company out, move along........ Your statement shows you have no clue what your saying.

Support a foreign company building in America sending profits back home, but slam an American company that is building a product specifically for the China market, were profits will be coming back to US soil..... Your a smart one aren't ya!

[Haroldlutsen]

Your ignorance and opposition to the American worker, and support of Government Motors sickens me. Interesting that Chrysler moved mini-van production from St. Louis to Canada. Wonder why that was?

I am a union pipefitter the company I work for has a division in Denver (Murphy Co) I or any of our members would not be caught driving a foreign vehicle. I agree with you about the minivan plant I guess I don't understand your slam of me about the American worker? All I'm saying is buy American if u can its gotta help in the long run its hard it seems like everything is made in china, I was gonna buy my nephew a Red Ryder BB gun but it was made in china wtf

[10mm-man]

I am a union pipefitter the company I work for has a division in Denver (Murphy Co) I or any of our members would not be caught driving a foreign vehicle. I agree with you about the minivan plant I guess I don't understand your slam of me about the American worker? All I'm saying is buy American if u can its gotta help in the long run its hard it seems like everything is made in china, I was gonna buy my nephew a Red Ryder BB gun but it was made in china wtf


Dude, don't even waste your time explaining to people why they need to buy American if they don't get it............... To them I guess buying a foreign car takes precedence over keeping Americans working and $$ on our soil!

I am perplexed right now! But I guess i can not expect any less when people idolize draft dodging scum bags like Ted Nugent.... [pileoshit] This last edit is for your comment below (were is the throw up smiley)

[The Nuge]

I can tell some people never took an economics class.

[Ghosty]

All I'm saying is buy American if u can its gotta help in the long run its hard it seems like everything is made in china, I was gonna buy my nephew a Red Ryder BB gun but it was made in china wtf
Everyone knows your point about buying American, and I believe most people try their best to do what they can, and do support the American worker. But you really think everyone will stop shopping at Walmart or scanning every purchase for Chinese goods in general? It's tough. When it comes to new vehicles though, they cost as much as a small used Condo use to cost in the 80's, it's a HUGE purchase, $30k on the low end. So it's easy to see why long-term proven reliability is gonna be of utmost importance. People wanna be able to afford college for their kids, NOT have to buy a new transmission for their Ram.

[jerrymrc]

And this thread went just about where I thought it would.

[theGinsue]

What in the world is with all this foreign vehicle love I live in Missouri and am not from Colorado but enjoy your forum most of the time but all this Toyota talk sickens me

Since you brought up MO... I was born and raised in a conservative area of Missouri, not in the 30+ municipalities making up the St. Louis metro area, also known as the Missouri DNC HQ. I then lived for 10 years 20 miles East of St. Louis for the USAF. I still have many friends in that town and area and drive through it every few years (St. Ann still running their speed traps on I-70?) I know St. Louis! It's not the best area to use as a base of reference.

Toyotas are MORE American than most of the vehicles made overseas & in Mexico by the "American" auto companies. Americans would still be making most (if not all) of it's cars if not for the disingenuous & greedy demands of the UAW and associated unions. You can keep the crap made by the foreign-made "American" manufacturers and I'll gladly consider a Tennessee made Toyota the next time I'm in the market for a new vehicle. At least I will only cry once and not weekly when I have to take my crap "American" car back to the shop again and again.