Recent article on Mental Health and Gun ownership

[Adawg38]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_22416205/sudden-state-focus-mental-health-crises-poses-opportunity

Just curious what some people think on this. I know there is a lot of this kind of talk on the board already so sorry mods if this may be a repost.

I agree the doctors need to take more responsibility for their patients. Info should be shared and I myself am not too big on having my confidentiality violated but then again I am not seeking mental help and if I was and I was fucked up and who's to say we all aren't just a little lol I don't care if the Docs think I am dangerous and shouldn't have a gun then so be it. I think this issue can strike such a huge debate but I for 1 rather have people checked out more before they buy a gun then the Govt tell us we can't own any guns at all.

I had an ex girlfriend who was addicted to pain medication and wanted to die. I'm not looking for sympothy here and I know you guys are all supportive but I have a point here. I was with the ex for 3 years and really the last year is when [shithitsfan]. To get to the point most people who don't care about themselves or others because they are severely depressed and want to die don't want to voluntarily seek help and even if they did you need ins or a pocket full of money. Anyways I tried to get her help and it was nearly impossible and even with some of the state aid facilities having an open bed was a long wait if available. I tried forcing her in but the doctors at the ER would ask her if she wanted to kill herself and she'd say no and they'd let her walk. Police officers said they've seen that a lot, they'd bring someone in and recc a 72hr hold and the doctors would always let them walk. Even after writing to have her forced through the court to get help never worked. She wrecked my Jeep and she wrecked her car twice before totaling it. It was a big mess and I left out lots to the story and many details but she truly was a danger to herself and others. She always wanted to own a firearm since I had a few but I never would let her and kept mine at a friends during that time. She finally died in May 2010 of heart failure I was told but luckily during all that time noone else got hurt or killed. The point here is IMO help needs to be more easily available and if someone is seeing a Shrink then maybe if that doctor feels that person should NOT be allowed to buy and own a firearm then so be it. The info shared does not need to be your whole life at the doctors nor does seeing a counsler through a tough time in your life for depression need to mean the same as a felony. I know my story did not involve a gun but I feel had my ex owned or had access to mine I'd hate to see what things could of been. Thanks for listening to my story!

[HBARleatherneck]

delete.

[cstone]

I'm sorry for your loss.

You actually stated one of the best solutions: " She always wanted to own a firearm since I had a few but I never would let her and kept mine at a friends during that time."

Not everyone has family or friends who are competent, caring, and compassionate. That is sad. I would much rather have individuals dealing with these issues than the government. There are no perfect answers and I am convinced that if someone truly wants to kill themselves, they will try, and often succeed.

If the government cannot adjudicate mental health through the courts to keep society safe, why does anyone believe the legislature will do a better job? I am concerned with the possibility that as more healthcare providers become reliant on payments from government, that government will expect more cooperation from healthcare providers. He who pays the bill calls the tune.

Be safe.

[MarkCO]

I had a childhood friend who, in his early 40s committed suicide. He was mentally ill since his teen years. However, he had a supportive family and was a trust fund kid with a ton of money in the bank. He checked himself into mental health facilities when he knew he was crashing, but he could pay for it himself. Most people who are mentally ill (including the vast majority of the recent mass murderers) have significiant indications in their youth/teen years of mental instability. I have another person who has been in my life who was diagnosed with mental issues by the county and the consequences were severe, however the details are not going on an open forum.

Problem is that as a society, we have swung so far to one side of the pendulum in our effort to make everyone feel "good" about themselves while also refusing to profile or "label" anyone. This is not meant to be offensive, but a lot of this has been driven by homosexuality and all the associated issues therein related. People who are mentally ill are more difficult to get into treatment because they can no longer be labeled as deviant or abnormal in large part due to laws and perceptions intended to protect homosexuality. I am in no way judging or linking homosexual preferences with mass murder, except that the legal protections have made it more difficult for educators and health care professionals to identify those with actual mental illness.


Largely, I agree with the article.

[wctriumph]

Sorry for your loss, prayers sent up for you and yours.

My issue with the doctor government reporting is that any little thing may be used against you. My wife is disabled with chronic pain and as part of her pain management regimen she takes a antidepressant as this is shown to help with pain management. She calls the pain "noise" and the antidepressant helps to lower the volume. Anyway, my point is that with the new reporting protocols in place now and more to come, this may become a "key word" and may be judged by some bureaucratic hack looking to justify his/her job as a flag against gun ownership based on a mental health issue, where it does not really exist, in the NIBC and deny her her second amendment rights. This could very easily become back door control for many inalienable rights.

[CrufflerSteve]

All of this led to an interesting conversation with my wife who is a psychotherapist. She said that she is obligated to notify a person who is the target of threats from a client. Since her clients are what she call's the worried well​ who aren't mass murderers. If there ever was an obligation to report to the authorities based on some general feeling the person could be dangerous she'd quit. She takes confidentiality very seriously.

[SAnd]

So the idea is to deprive someone of their civil rights because they might do something bad. I can't support that in any fashion. Until someone has done something wrong they walk free. The communists acted on the idea that if you weren't a party line commie you were insane. Thousands died because of that.

[MarkCO]

So the idea is to deprive someone of their civil rights because they might do something bad. I can't support that in any fashion. Until someone has done something wrong they walk free. The communists acted on the idea that if you weren't a party line commie you were insane. Thousands died because of that.

I agree totally!

You apparently have never dealt with someone who is mentally ill. There is no way (sans drugs) a person just flips out and murders a bushel of people. There are signs, significant signs, over a long period of time, that point to the downward mental spiral. Fact is nobody wants to admit, acknowledge and treat. Treatment of mental illness is difficult, complex and very draining on the therapists. Point is, there is no might, it is they have already acted and the future actions will escalate.

[Great-Kazoo]

This is now Law in NY. IF a medical "professional" Meaning anyone in the medical field OR LE feels you may or might be a threat who also happens to be a gun owner. Their "evaluation" based upon their OPINION is justification for Confiscation of your guns.
"Based upon their Opinion" In a field[s] where say 90% of the Dr's and health care providers Believe Firearms are a danger to you, your children and society in general. Now given the Power to have your guns taken from you w/out any recourse.
Next time i visit my Dr. i wonder if they'll be handing out 6 pointed stars instead of lollipops.

[MarkCO]

This is now Law in NY. IF a medical "professional" Meaning anyone in the medical field OR LE feels you may or might be a threat who also happens to be a gun owner. Their "evaluation" based upon their OPINION is justification for Confiscation of your guns.
"Based upon their Opinion" In a field[s] where say 90% of the Dr's and health care providers Believe Firearms are a danger to you, your children and society in general. Now given the Power to have your guns taken from you w/out any recourse.
Next time i visit my Dr. i wonder if they'll be handing out 6 pointed stars instead of lollipops.

Valid!

[asmo]

I agree the doctors need to take more responsibility for their patients.

No. People need to take more responsibility for themselves. When YOU do something bad YOU should be punished for it -- not some 3rd party.

[OneGuy67]

I've had two friends in their 40's who have committed suicide by firearm this past calendar year. One had been diagnosed with depression several years ago and had been taking meds and seeing someone to treat it, without much success. She walked into Green Mountain Guns last year and bought a pistol on a Friday. She saw her family on Saturday to say goodbye (although they didn't realize that at the time), ensured her daughter was with her dad and on Sunday shot herself.

The other friend had a drinking problem and had been arrested for DUI multiple times. His latest case was going to have him jailed for a period of time. He and a friend went shooting and the friend left the firearms at his house for some reason and my friend used one of them to shoot himself. Outside looking in at his life, it was evident he was depressed, but he didn't seek help for himself and instead, self medicated with the bottle.

In both cases, they used a firearm, both obtained them in different ways. How do we legislate a "fix" to have prevented either or both of their use of that particular tool to end their lives? I truly don't know. Could have anything been done to stop the one from planning her death, or the other from making what appears to be a snap decision? I don't know. That's the problem with mental health and trying to legislate a "fix". There are too many variables to try to accomodate in a "fix".

[Ronin13]

I've had two friends in their 40's who have committed suicide by firearm this past calendar year. One had been diagnosed with depression several years ago and had been taking meds and seeing someone to treat it, without much success. She walked into Green Mountain Guns last year and bought a pistol on a Friday. She saw her family on Saturday to say goodbye (although they didn't realize that at the time), ensured her daughter was with her dad and on Sunday shot herself.

The other friend had a drinking problem and had been arrested for DUI multiple times. His latest case was going to have him jailed for a period of time. He and a friend went shooting and the friend left the firearms at his house for some reason and my friend used one of them to shoot himself. Outside looking in at his life, it was evident he was depressed, but he didn't seek help for himself and instead, self medicated with the bottle.

In both cases, they used a firearm, both obtained them in different ways. How do we legislate a "fix" to have prevented either or both of their use of that particular tool to end their lives? I truly don't know. Could have anything been done to stop the one from planning her death, or the other from making what appears to be a snap decision? I don't know. That's the problem with mental health and trying to legislate a "fix". There are too many variables to try to accomodate in a "fix".
Kind of similar to this, there was a veteran who lived right off post at Ft. Drum while I was there, but was too scared to pull the trigger himself, so he took his shotgun to the Police station- shot out a window, threatened the cops and tried to have a suicide by cop type of thing. But since he didn't want to take anyone with him, he refused to shoot any LEOs. They were able to detain him without killing him, and now he's in the puzzle factory.

[sniper7]

The biggest step to mental health is awareness. usually those affected don't see it. family and friends need to be the ones to help them. doctors are another resource.

My fear is the .gov using any bit of info against you to deny gun ownership. The recent EOs laid out that plan pretty well. It may have good intentions (or ill), but there are always serious problems with any .gov intervention.

When it comes down to it....one billionth of a percentile of people commit horrific crimes when looked at on a daily basis. Major oversight for such a minuet problem that has been inflated due to media exposure.

[Ronin13]

The biggest step to mental health is awareness. usually those affected don't see it. family and friends need to be the ones to help them. doctors are another resource.

My fear is the .gov using any bit of info against you to deny gun ownership. The recent EOs laid out that plan pretty well. It may have good intentions (or ill), but there are always serious problems with any .gov intervention.

When it comes down to it....one billionth of a percentile of people commit horrific crimes when looked at on a daily basis. Major oversight for such a minuet problem that has been inflated due to media exposure.
Exactly... and this has me nervous- how long until "they" decide that PTSD is a mental-illness that would warrant taking your guns away? I think out of my unit that deployed, 99% of us were diagnosed with PTSD...

[DavieD55]

I wish people would wake up and realize this is not about curbing violence. This is about taking your RKBA away from you. Isn't it obvious that there is an agenda?

[Dave_L]

Exactly... and this has me nervous- how long until "they" decide that PTSD is a mental-illness that would warrant taking your guns away? I think out of my unit that deployed, 99% of us were diagnosed with PTSD...

That'd be a VERY easy way for them remove the military trained gun-owners outta the mix. Now it's just amateurs for the most part...

[DavieD55]

Exactly... and this has me nervous- how long until "they" decide that PTSD is a mental-illness that would warrant taking your guns away? I think out of my unit that deployed, 99% of us were diagnosed with PTSD...


This is exactly where this is going Ronin.

[KestrelBike]

Look at this scenario: Dad beats up his kid until the dad dies of a heart attack when the kid's 13 or something, kid is naturally depressed, mom takes kid to a psychiatrist, kid is diagnosed with depression, finally find a combination of Rx drugs that involve anti-psychotics (note: the kid wasn't psychotic, but responded well to anti-psychotic drugs in combination with other Rx drugs, for instance Wellbutrin is a common smoking-cessation drug but is also widely used to treat depression) and is treated during high school or whatever and turns out to be a fine, upstanding citizen.

However now there are laws that say if you had ever been on anti-psychotic drugs, no guns for you EVER. Do you just tell that kid-turned-adult "Sorry kiddo, but since your dad beat you up and you naturally responded with depression, no guns for you"?

***THIS ISN'T MY STORY MY DAD IS ALIVE AND WELL AND ONLY BEAT GOOD LESSONS INTO ME THAT I THANK HIM FOR EVERY DAY***

[Adawg38]

Lots of good points here I never thought about! I would still however like to see it easier to receive help in the Mental Health System and maybe even better diagnosis but I agree with a lot of you that it would be a complete violation of your rights and Anti Gun Doctors and Officers could very easily take them from you.