View Full Version : Reflection of America's Mentality
http://kdvr.com/2013/01/21/phil-mickelson-says-higher-taxes-are-causing-him-to-consider-retirement/
Just check out the comments. It's crazy how many comments are on there (270 last I checked). Not much middle of the road either. When success is looked down upon, you're royally screwed.
If we ended the biased and insane practice of artificially calling investment income not regular income, then the taxes on everyone else would not need to be raised to make up for those losses. Today we have over half of the income in America as investment dividends. Since that has been reclassified as different than work income, it is not subject to taxes like everyone else is. We live under a two tier tax system where the wealthy and the powerful don't pay like their "subjects"/normal workers.
I am sorry, but billion dollar earning bankers should pay taxes like every other American. Income is income.
Taxes are going up because the rest of us are losing income earning and the investment class is taking it all and pay next to no taxes either.
SuperiorDG
01-21-2013, 12:26
Yea I saw that and comments really made me think. How would those same people feel if they won the lottery and had to give over half of it to the government?
basically taxes are rising because over 50% of income is now classified as dividends income. So the pie of what can be taxed is shrinking. So taxes have to go up. We could cut everyones taxes (except the dividend earners) by ending that artificial gov creation. Income is income. I don't want to subsidize bankers and make a Dr or you pay more to subsidize wallstreet parasites.
They were taxed on the income that they earned to put into the investment. Investment is a risk. You can win or you can lose. It's a risk/reward proposition. If you want to take away any incentive to investment, there goes the economy. There goes the jobs.
Investment isn't about "rich people". I'm not rich, but I invest in a 401K so that I can maybe someday retire.
Since when did the desire to become rich become such a bad thing? Why the class warfare? Taking money out of the private sector and putting it into the public sector (i.e. government) isn't good for anyone, no matter where it comes from. Going after the wealthy gains you what? That's right, NOTHING!
...but I'm seeing how your thinking would have you voting for Obama.
Increasing taxes solves nothing but feeding the government monster. This government is so addicted to spending that increasing taxes barely slows the hemorrhaging. You can't tax your way back to prosperity because higher taxation is a disincentive to higher earnings. Every time the federal government has reduced taxes to stimulate the economy it has worked.
HoneyBadger
01-21-2013, 12:32
basically taxes are rising because over 50% of income is now classified as dividends income. So the pie of what can be taxed is shrinking. So taxes have to go up. We could cut everyones taxes. Income is income. I don't want to subsidize ANYONE
I *might* agree with you for the first time ever.
nynco... STOP! You sound like every single idiot liberal on this subject. If you don't know how it works, don't assume shit. First, most investments are made with ALREADY TAXED INCOME- it would be retarded to tax people twice on the same money... Second, people tend to spend what they make, it's not like the millionaires and billionaires just stuff $100,000 in their mattresses every month. You make $50K a year you buy a house that you can afford, then pretty much spend the rest on what is commensurate to your income. You make $2M a year, you buy a house you can afford and spend nearly all the rest on various things as well.
Nynco, have you ever purchased stock before? If so, did they let you use pre-taxed income to do so? No, that's not how it works.
Income is income is income. I don't care if you think it was a risk. Earning a college degree is a risk. Crossing the street to go to work is a risk. Man up...
Income is income. Stop making working people subsidize wallstreet.
HoneyBadger
01-21-2013, 12:34
nynco... STOP! You sound like every single idiot liberal on this subject. If you don't know how it works, don't assume shit. First, most investments are made with ALREADY TAXED INCOME- it would be retarded to tax people twice on the same money... Second, people tend to spend what they make, it's not like the millionaires and billionaires just stuff $100,000 in their mattresses every month. You make $50K a year you buy a house that you can afford, then pretty much spend the rest on what is commensurate to your income. You make $2M a year, you buy a house you can afford and spend nearly all the rest on various things as well.
Nynco, have you ever purchased stock before? If so, did they let you use pre-taxed income to do so? No, that's not how it works.
Not picking sides here, but what about a Roth IRA?
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 12:39
Income is income is income. I don't care if you think it was a risk. Earning a college degree is a risk. Crossing the street to go to work is a risk. Man up...
Income is income. Stop making working people subsidize wallstreet.
Bulls, wallstreet is subsidizing the working class. As an investor my investment has paid people salaries, payroll tax, others' ss & medicaid tax and so on. My profit in my investment is a miniscule compare to the investment and the risk I take. Furthermore, my dividend is POST corporate tax. My gain has been taxed more than twice, and now you say it's not fair? Why don't you open your own business before you open your mouth.
You want to go after tax dodger, why don't you focus on giant corporate such as GE which under this administration is getting plenty of tax and investment incentives. Why dont you go after all the scamming green energy companies who filed bankruptcy after paying themselves big fat bonuses.
The rich already pay more, significantly more than their fair share. If the guy making $50K had to pay for his fair share of the local, state and Federal government services, he would not be able to buy a cheeseburger. Infrastructure ain't cheap. We all drive on the same roads and have the same emergency services.
The cost to fight a fire in a $200K house is more than in a $10M house that has a fire suppression system, alarm system, etc., but the guy with the $10M house is paying 30 to 40 times on the property tax.
These little facts that get lost in the rhetoric...
I don't think any form of income should be taxed any different. We are currently making middle class people pay a higher taxrate than hedge fund managers. This inturn cause countless other problems in our economy and gov. It incentivizes gambling and not investing in sound businesses.
What I would do is make losses deductible from income to cover your "risk" and then make losses in the dollar over time to inflation deductible over the time of the initial investment. The last one is key because it would stop all the manipulations of the CPI (consumer price index or rate of inflation). Currently the CPI has been manipulated by the bankers and the gov they own to never show the true rate of inflation anymore. This makes it easier for them to never give you a raise (because most people don't get it) and to allow the gov to never keep SSI payments at the true cost of living change. If the CPI effect wallstreet like mainstreet, then we would get the truth. If we use the metrics used in the 1960s to measure inflation, inflation would be shown to be in the double digits for over 2 decades. Not the fantasy they sell us.
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 12:45
Not picking sides here, but what about a Roth IRA?
ROTH is post tax. So per nynco, you need to pay much more tax on the gain again despite the fact. This will shut down wallstreet and foreign investment overnight. That libtard really can make my monday.
I guess this place changed a bit in my absence. [Stooge]
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 12:48
I don't think any form of income should be taxed any different. We are currently making middle class people pay a higher taxrate than hedge fund managers. This inturn cause countless other problems in our economy and gov. It incentivizes gambling and not investing in sound businesses.
What I would do is make losses deductible from income to cover your "risk" and then make losses in the dollar over time to inflation deductible over the time of the initial investment. The last one is key because it would stop all the manipulations of the CPI (consumer price index or rate of inflation). Currently the CPI has been manipulated by the bankers and the gov they own to never show the true rate of inflation anymore. This makes it easier for them to never give you a raise (because most people don't get it) and to allow the gov to never keep SSI payments at the true cost of living change. If the CPI effect wallstreet like mainstreet, then we would get the truth. If we use the metrics used in the 1960s to measure inflation, inflation would be shown to be in the double digits for over 2 decades. Not the fantasy they sell us.
Then push for flat tax. Oh wait.. that aint fair per the left. The system is originally designed to encourage growth - however corrupted, it is still doing what it's designed to do. Anything extreme is bad.. extreme growth typically = corruption.. Nevertheless, what you are purposing sounds like 'the great leap forward,' fair taxation and workers' rights. We know how that turned out.
Money is taxed twice all the time. So that tired mime about taxing it twice just does nothing to move me. Yes the rich pay more in taxes. So WHAT? The top 1% have more wealth than the bottom 90% combined. So them complaining that they pay more than 50% of the taxes (no where close to 90%) just proves my point. America is faltering because we have created this tax mess where the wealthy are like kings who get over.
America is faltering because we have created this tax mess where the wealthy are like kings who get over.
So more government tax mess is the answer. Gotcha.
Then push for flat tax. Oh wait.. that aint fair per the left. The system is originally designed to encourage growth - however corrupted, it is still doing what it's designed to do. Anything extreme is bad.. extreme growth typically = corruption.. Nevertheless, what you are purposing sounds like 'the great leap forward,' fair taxation and workers' rights. We know how that turned out.
Our system is NOT designed to encourage growth, it is designed to encourage short term gain over long term viability and health. Please tell me why in the heck we give taxbreaks to companies that ship production overseas? IS that designed to do this nation long term good? Please tell me why a banker should get a lower taxrate than a small business owner? All it does is reward gambling. Gambling that nearly destroyed our economy. We need to raises taxes on dividends to the same level as everyone else. Then investors would invest for the long term instead of going for the quick dollar regardless of long term health of the nation. Eating your legs may make you less hungry but tomorrow you may need to run.
So more government tax mess is the answer. Gotcha.
No treating all income the same is the answer, I would lower taxes on workers and raise the taxes on investors to the same level. No more punishing hard work.
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 12:57
Money is taxed twice all the time. So that tired mime about taxing it twice just does nothing to move me. Yes the rich pay more in taxes. So WHAT? The top 1% have more wealth than the bottom 90% combined. So them complaining that they pay more than 50% of the taxes (no where close to 90%) just proves my point. America is faltering because we have created this tax mess where the wealthy are like kings who get over.
It's the whole liberal mentality.. take take take. Why did you even bother showing up at the gun rally? Let them take your right away. If I am successful I need to be punished more than the fucking lazy bastards who drives a 5 series to pick up milk at WIC and bitching about lowered food stamps because of deflation? Fuck no.
I am helping a 'poor' single mom right now - obviously I cannot disclose too much details, but she came to me to ask to defer her foreclosure because she cannot afford her $2400/month mortgage payment. Meanwhile, her gross income also shows $500 in food stamps. She gets EIC and tax credit upto $15000 a year due to the number of children. The husband/live in boyfriend will not work because they are afraid to lose their welfare craps. Both of them never paid taxes in their life... they will always show net gain even after property tax, sales tax and so on. Do I feel sorry for these kind of guys that you tard champion equal treatment for? Fuck no!
take take take... are you kidding me. I am advocating for every one to pay the same. Why are you advocating for a free ride while punishing an honest days work. That is the take take take mentality there.
Your disdain for welfare for the poor is hollow when you call for welfare taxrates for the investor class.
If the government was doing what its charter instructed it to do, i.e. The US Constitution, we wouldn't be here. The reason we need these tax schemes (that are now longer than the Bible) is that it has gone way too far. Going further is not the answer.
We have a progressive tax code where the wealthier pay more, but that's not good enough for you.
We need a whole lot less government right now, not more money funneled into it.
nynco sounds like the majority of those people that helped get King Oberxes put into power for 4 more years, "The rich are causing this woe!" False. They make up a small percent of the population, they pay over 60% of the taxes, AND are continuously getting hit with tax hikes. What would fix it is to reduce spending, reform entitlements (SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and especially welfare), and if EVERYONE really did pay their "fair share" (no more of this exempt from income tax while making $20K crap) we wouldn't have to raise taxes...
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 13:02
Our system is NOT designed to encourage growth, it is designed to encourage short term gain over long term viability and health. Please tell me why in the heck we give taxbreaks to companies that ship production overseas? IS that designed to do this nation long term good? Please tell me why a banker should get a lower taxrate than a small business owner? All it does is reward gambling. Gambling that nearly destroyed our economy. We need to raises taxes on dividends to the same level as everyone else. Then investors would invest for the long term instead of going for the quick dollar regardless of long term health of the nation. Eating your legs may make you less hungry but tomorrow you may need to run.
I am both a small business owner and licensed banker. You have no clue what you are talking about. When you can get out of your comfort zone and invent/start a small business then beg for strangers' money to get your dream off the ground, then maybe you understand the kind of risk you are talking about. Stop changing the subject too. You are all over the place. Gambling = taking risk..and like you said.. even crossing the street is a risk. Your hypocrite is emerging.
Ronin who owns our gov? Who pays for all these screwed up laws? It ain't the welfare lady who is pinching a penny for a taco. So yea, the wealthy that buy our elections need to be called out for what they actually do.
The reason the taxcode is so long is because all those mega amounts of rules and clauses benefit those who have the most wealth already. This is why GE pays no taxes and why small business owners do.
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 13:04
take take take... are you kidding me. I am advocating for every one to pay the same. Why are you advocating for a free ride while punishing an honest days work. That is the take take take mentality there.
Your disdain for welfare for the poor is hollow when you call for welfare taxrates for the investor class.
So to be fair.. advocate for FLAT RATE tax. Why wouldn't that be fair?
HoneyBadger
01-21-2013, 13:05
Our system is NOT designed to encourage growth, it is designed to encourage short term gain over long term viability and health. Eating your legs may make you less hungry but tomorrow you may need to run.
I might be mistaken here, but did you just define the welfare system?
I am both a small business owner and licensed banker. You have no clue what you are talking about. When you can get out of your comfort zone and invent/start a small business then beg for strangers' money to get your dream off the ground, then maybe you understand the kind of risk you are talking about. Stop changing the subject too. You are all over the place. Gambling = taking risk..and like you said.. even crossing the street is a risk. Your hypocrite is emerging.
How in the heck are you laughably calling me a hypocrite when I am calling for the same taxrate for all forms of income. Talk about projection. Look in the mirror.
I might be mistaken here, but did you just define the welfare system?
Corporate welfare is 4 times larger than all the other forms of welfare combined.
HoneyBadger
01-21-2013, 13:08
So to be fair.. advocate for FLAT RATE tax. Why wouldn't that be fair?
I would like to hear a logical response to this.
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 13:08
Ronin who owns our gov? Who pays for all these screwed up laws? It ain't the welfare lady who is pinching a penny for a taco. So yea, the wealthy that buy our elections need to be called out for what they actually do.
The reason the taxcode is so long is because all those mega amounts of rules and clauses benefit those who have the most wealth already. This is why GE pays no taxes and why small business owners do.
How convenient, he uses small business owners against giant corps, and sometimes flips to 'workers' against business owners.
HoneyBadger
01-21-2013, 13:09
I might be mistaken here, but did you just define the welfare system?
Corporate welfare is 4 times larger than all the other forms of welfare combined.
So.... that's a yes?
This is why GE pays no taxes and why small business owners do.
Come on, here. Did you ever take high school economics?
Corporations don't pay taxes. Taxes are passed along to consumers in the form of higher prices.
Do they even teach that in schools these days?
I would end corporate welfare too. I personally don't get angry at the uber poor for wanting food money. If we had an economy with plentiful jobs that paid a living wage, I would be all for ending welfare. But instead we have a taxcode that ships jobs to China for a taxbreak. So pardon me if I don't care about a mother trying to feed her kids.
HoneyBadger
01-21-2013, 13:12
So to be fair.. advocate for FLAT RATE tax. Why wouldn't that be fair?
I would like to hear a logical response to this.
Still waiting...
HoneyBadger
01-21-2013, 13:13
I would end corporate welfare too. I personally don't get angry at the uber poor for wanting food money. If we had an economy with plentiful jobs that paid a living wage, I would be all for ending welfare. But instead we have a taxcode that ships jobs to China for a taxbreak. So pardon me if I don't care about a mother trying to feed her kids.
Oh, you're tugging on my heartstrings now! Maybe that mother should have made responsible choices. No, I'm not kidding. Time to grow up.
Come on, here. Did you ever take high school economics?
Corporations don't pay taxes. Taxes are passed along to consumers in the form of higher prices.
Do they even teach that in schools these days?
Another broken tired mime. All taxes are passed along all over the place. The only thing that is passed along to consumers is the same thing that everything else deals with. What lower tax rates do is pass along more profit to wallstreet. Because the free market sets the prices not taxes. The free market sets what people will pay for something. No businessman ever lowered prices to make up for a taxbreak. No what they did was see what people were willing to pay, keep it at that level and pocket the profit.
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 13:14
I would end corporate welfare too. I personally don't get angry at the uber poor for wanting food money. If we had an economy with plentiful jobs that paid a living wage, I would be all for ending welfare. But instead we have a taxcode that ships jobs to China for a taxbreak. So pardon me if I don't care about a mother trying to feed her kids.
FLAT TAX, you meant.
Oh, you're tugging on my heartstrings now! Maybe that mother should have made responsible choices. No, I'm not kidding. Time to grow up.
Don't be an jerk. My parents are great people who are nothing like what you claim. My father still works to this day to pay for his cancer treatments. My mother the same. He is an engineer and she is a teacher. So please kindly Go F yourself and leave my parents out of your hate.
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 13:18
Another broken tired mime. All taxes are passed along all over the place. The only thing that is passed along to consumers is the same thing that everything else deals with. What lower tax rates do is pass along more profit to wallstreet. Because the free market sets the prices not taxes. The free market sets what people will pay for something. No businessman ever lowered prices to make up for a taxbreak. No what they did was see what people were willing to pay, keep it at that level and pocket the profit.
As mentioned numerous times.. you have no clue whatsoever. When a business person receives a tax break, 99% chance he/she will reinvest the saving for growth rather than paying more tax (at supposedly lower tax break rate) on a higher profit. It's only logical. This growth in turns will result in higher tax revenue. Bush tax cut resulting in over 40% tax revenue growth. Reagan's tax cut had the same result. Hell even your president agreed on his first term and extended it. The conservatives tend to have this willingness to 'progress' and grow. The progressive on the other hand only understands 'take take take.' The irony.
Most libtards dont get it. Unless you run your own business, stop making stupid assumptions.
Don't forget that JFK also reduced taxes which in turn stimulated growth.
Aloha_Shooter
01-21-2013, 13:21
Question for nynco: Why is it fair for me to pay substantially more for the same services than you or HoneyBadger or ChunkyMonkey or ...?
I don't mind paying for a public school system I don't use or police and firefighting that I thankfully haven't personally needed. Making sure kids know the basics of functioning as a productive citizen, that our collective homes and neighborhoods are safe are great. Your philosophy however means I should pay more for driving on the same roads, taking the same buses, etc. just because I make more. Let's leave aside how hard I worked to get where I'm at, how many opportunities for "fun" I gave up, etc. because some people are just born into it.
So what? What exactly is fair in your opinion about them paying more for the same services? What is fair about making them subsidize others regardless of how they got where they are? Christian, humanitarian, public-minded ... sure ... how is it FAIR?
HoneyBadger
01-21-2013, 13:25
Don't be an jerk. My parents are great people who are nothing like what you claim. My father still works to this day to pay for his cancer treatments. My mother the same. He is an engineer and she is a teacher. So please kindly Go F yourself and leave my parents out of your hate.
I don't have any hate and I didn't ever mention your parents.... You did. You want fairness and I called you out on it.
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 13:28
I think the last few events along with dumbasses like Nynco has pushed me further to the right. My long time agent has called me back after I complained last week that my umbrella, home and car insurance will be going up to $4500 something. She proposed that I switch to progressive for $700 saving. Fuck that. I refuse to do business with the left. I ll stick with my current insurance rather than giving money to the fucking democrat fund machine.
I don't have any hate and I didn't ever mention your parents.... You did. You want fairness and I called you out on it.
You are right Honey Badger, I went over the line and I PERSONALLY made a mistake reading what you wrote. I read it as YOUR mother and not THAT mother. I apologize for being out of line and a jerk myself.
Question for nynco: Why is it fair for me to pay substantially more for the same services than you or HoneyBadger or ChunkyMonkey or ...?
I don't mind paying for a public school system I don't use or police and firefighting that I thankfully haven't personally needed. Making sure kids know the basics of functioning as a productive citizen, that our collective homes and neighborhoods are safe are great. Your philosophy however means I should pay more for driving on the same roads, taking the same buses, etc. just because I make more. Let's leave aside how hard I worked to get where I'm at, how many opportunities for "fun" I gave up, etc. because some people are just born into it.
So what? What exactly is fair in your opinion about them paying more for the same services? What is fair about making them subsidize others regardless of how they got where they are? Christian, humanitarian, public-minded ... sure ... how is it FAIR?
I am assuming you are talking about property taxes. I am not talking about property taxes. I am talking about treating all INCOME the same, regardless of source.
As mentioned numerous times.. you have no clue whatsoever. When a business person receives a tax break, 99% chance he/she will reinvest the saving for growth rather than paying more tax (at supposedly lower tax break rate) on a higher profit. It's only logical. This growth in turns will result in higher tax revenue. Bush tax cut resulting in over 40% tax revenue growth. Reagan's tax cut had the same result. Hell even your president agreed on his first term and extended it. The conservatives tend to have this willingness to 'progress' and grow. The progressive on the other hand only understands 'take take take.' The irony.
Most libtards dont get it. Unless you run your own business, stop making stupid assumptions.
No lower taxes do not create increased gov intake like you suggest, lower taxes with MONUMENTAL increases in GOV spending and borrowing did. You guys bemoan Obama as spending too much while you just cited two of the largest deficit spenders in US history. You then call me a hypocrite... oh the irony. I pray for the day that the conservatives actually return to being conservatives like Eisenhower was.
Sharpienads
01-21-2013, 13:46
So to be fair.. advocate for FLAT RATE tax. Why wouldn't that be fair?
I would like to hear a logical response to this.
Yes. How's that for logical?
I would still have a graduated income tax but with no deductions at all. Not even for a house. Because renters should not subsidize home owners.
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 13:54
No lower taxes do not create increased gov intake like you suggest, lower taxes with MONUMENTAL increases in GOV spending and borrowing did. You guys bemoan Obama as spending too much while you just cited two of the largest deficit spenders in US history. You then call me a hypocrite... oh the irony. I pray for the day that the conservatives actually return to being conservatives like Eisenhower was.
The difference is those two created growth and the spending comes along. You really want to compare them to Obama's budgeting skill? Wait, what budget?
Sharpienads
01-21-2013, 13:55
I think the last few events along with dumbasses like Nynco has pushed me further to the right. My long time agent has called me back after I complained last week that my umbrella, home and car insurance will be going up to $4500 something. She proposed that I switch to progressive for $700 saving. Fuck that. I refuse to do business with the left. I ll stick with my current insurance rather than giving money to the fucking democrat fund machine.
I believe this is one of the consequences of our current welfare system. I work hard, and the government keeps telling me I need to pay more so that somebody else can enjoy a certain standard of living. This is regardless of how hard they work and despite the fact that they have certain "rights" yet none of the responsibility that I do. It creates resentment among people, whether you realize it or not or whether you want it to or not. I find myself feeling the same way.
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 13:57
I would still have a graduated income tax but with no deductions at all. Not even for a house. Because renters should not subsidize home owners.
HENCE the hypocrisy.. you demands 'fairness' for a certain class only. There is no reason you should not agree to FLAT tax if you want to apply your definition of 'fairness' to all. INCOME is an INCOME yo
HENCE the hypocrisy.. you demands 'fairness' for a certain class only. There is no reason you should not agree to FLAT tax if you want to apply your definition of 'fairness' to all.
FLAT tax...like EVERY person in America send in $5K regardless of income level or nationality...that would be fair. No way we even get close to anything near fair.
The difference is those two created growth and the spending comes along. You really want to compare them to Obama's budgeting skill? Wait, what budget?
Wallstreet is at an all time high and Bush left the country in the toilet on the verge of total melt down. I would say Obama is doing better.
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 14:03
Wallstreet is at an all time high and Bush left the country in the toilet on the verge of total melt down. I would say Obama is doing better.
Yes, Obama is the hero of wallstreet, while generations of Americans must pay back the newly acquired debts. The hypocrisy coming from the left who champions the small folks is just... sickening.
HENCE the hypocrisy.. you demands 'fairness' for a certain class only. There is no reason you should not agree to FLAT tax if you want to apply your definition of 'fairness' to all. INCOME is an INCOME yo
If someone would put forth a flat tax that made all income subject to it, I would not be against it. But that is because I get something that most of you people don't. Wage earners end take home pay is not dictated tax rates. That only matters to investment income earners. Raise taxes on wage earners and wages will rise to meet the level that a person is willing to work for for the given position. Taxes have no bearing on that number at all. Within a few short years wages will adjust to what that person needs to survive. It will however stop wallstreet from gambling.
Yes, Obama is the hero of wallstreet, while generations of Americans must pay back the newly acquired debts. The hypocrisy coming from the left who champions the small folks is just... sickening.
So you agree that EVERYSINGLE GOP PRESIDENT since Reagan is just as bad. Ok, so do I.
You also just backhandedly admitted that trickle down economics don't work.
Sharpienads
01-21-2013, 14:06
IF we have a tax based on an individual's income, it should be a flat tax. No more than 10%, no deductions, no credits. Everybody pays it regardless of income. If you don't want to pay your taxes, you forfeit your right to vote. If you don't pay taxes, you shouldn't be able to vote to raise mine.
Or we could cut the federal budget in half and not have any federal income tax whatsoever, individual or corporate.
I prefer option B.
Raise taxes on wage earners and wages will rise to meet the level that a person is willing to work for for the given position.
Dead wrong. The cost of living will rise to meet the level of wages. Wage earner gets $15 an hour and his Big Mac will cost him $12. Meanwhile, it costs even less to use overseas labor since you don't have to pay for their taxes and benefits. Now an American wage earner sits on his ass getting unemployment.
I say that we return to the tax system that the founders left us with. TARIFFS paid for 90% of all federal tax collections up until the income tax. Today in a world with no tariffs, we are rapidly losing our middle class and ability to manufacture. Without manufacture, you can forget ever winning a war.
jhood001
01-21-2013, 14:12
[Pop] This is a pretty good thread.
Dead wrong. The cost of living will rise to meet the level of wages. Wage earner gets $15 an hour and his Big Mac will cost him $12. Meanwhile, it costs even less to use overseas labor since you don't have to pay for their taxes and benefits. Now an American wage earner sits on his ass getting unemployment.
Bring back Tariffs, Because NO ONE can compete with a slave or a person willing to work and live in a mud hut.
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 14:13
So you agree that EVERYSINGLE GOP PRESIDENT since Reagan is just as bad. Ok, so do I.
You also just backhandedly admitted that trickle down economics don't work.
Sure, I can point out something bad with every single president. NOTHING works 100% as we wish them to be... It's not a pissing contest to me. I like how Clinton worked w/ GOP, but he fucked it up on the AWB before anything else. I am not even a registered republican.
But I can tell you that every single shit that the current POTUS is doing is bad. I am more concern about how the current democrat president is destroying future generations. Something that you still refuse to admit.
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 14:19
If someone would put forth a flat tax that made all income subject to it, I would not be against it. But that is because I get something that most of you people don't. Wage earners end take home pay is not dictated tax rates. That only matters to investment income earners. Raise taxes on wage earners and wages will rise to meet the level that a person is willing to work for for the given position. Taxes have no bearing on that number at all. Within a few short years wages will adjust to what that person needs to survive. It will however stop wallstreet from gambling.
A true flat tax without any attachment goes against everything that liberal truly believes in, don't it? Because you are all about making the successful pay more and the freeloaders pay nothing. Income is an income like you said.. I would concede that all investment income are the same as wage income, so personal wages included would be taxed equally... now you want higher wages as condition? Make up your mind.
A true flat tax without any attachment goes against everything that liberal truly believes in, don't it? Because you are all about making the successful pay more and the freeloaders pay nothing. Income is an income like you said.. I would concede that all investment income are the same as wage income, so personal wages included would be taxed equally... now you want higher wages as condition? Make up your mind.
I did not want higher wages, I said wages would increase to reflect the loss in purchasing power.
I did not want higher wages, I said wages would increase to reflect the loss in purchasing power.
This is genius at work! Who says a perpetual motion machine doesn't exist?
ChunkyMonkey
01-21-2013, 14:28
I did not want higher wages, I said wages would increase to reflect the loss in purchasing power.
As confusing as you are. I am going to assume that you'd agree with a flat tax system w/o any deductions for anyone/any entity, then there is hope for you. I am all for this. No special treatment to any class of citizen or corp. Tax the bottom 50%, we might catch up on the damn deficit afterall. Who cares about wages, the federal minimum already affected the free market as is. Leave it alone and let the market correct itself. You cannot be pro minimum wage and pro illegal immigrant workers at the same time afterall.
HoneyBadger
01-21-2013, 14:51
FLAT tax...like EVERY person in America send in $5K regardless of income level or nationality...that would be fair. No way we even get close to anything near fair.
I think a flat tax generally refers to everyone paying an equal percentage, say 5%, regardless of income level.
Wallstreet is at an all time high and Bush left the country in the toilet on the verge of total melt down. I would say Obama is doing better.
Still blaming Bush... [facepalm] Folks, what we see here is a typical failure to admit the mistakes of his precious deity... I mean, administration...
HoneyBadger
01-21-2013, 14:54
IF we have a tax based on an individual's income, it should be a flat tax. No more than 10%, no deductions, no credits. Everybody pays it regardless of income. If you don't want to pay your taxes, you forfeit your right to vote. If you don't pay taxes, you shouldn't be able to vote to raise mine.
Or we could cut the federal budget in half and not have any federal income tax whatsoever, individual or corporate.
I prefer option B.
I very much like proposal A. Voting in America has lost its power and meaning. If only law-abiding citizens and citizens who pay their flat tax could vote, we wouldn't be voting these clowns into office to wreck our lives. That being said, we need to fix the mess we're in first.
Do you think having to argue with "nynco"mpoop helps you improve your arguments when challenged by other ignorant left arguments, or does it just raise your blood pressure?
nynco...... Which branch of the government to you work for?
10mm-man
01-21-2013, 15:25
Income is income is income. I don't care if you think it was a risk. Earning a college degree is a risk. Crossing the street to go to work is a risk. Man up...
Income is income. Stop making working people subsidize wallstreet.
Good thing we live in America, were you have a choice to change your employment if you like! Don't like it, start investing, I for one have to invest in my company, I started with TAXED dollars. I hope I make a bigger return on that investment and hope I make more $$$ that won't be taxed to support someone who sit's on there ass crying about taxed dollars, and doesn't invest to improve there position.
Hope that makes sense but if not- you don't like your position, change it!
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