How to validate a raise?

[buckeye4rnr]

My annual review is tomorrow and the comp number, I'm 98% sure I'll be offered, is about 3k shy of the minimum I was expecting. It's also, I just found out, 7k shy of what someone with my experience and qualifications is earning. I'm willing to concede a little bit of money because I like the work environment and it's low stress but that only counts for so much and a 3k raise doesn't do it.

I've had no major slip ups at work, all feedback has been really minor stuff(ex. messy desk) and recently just passed the Certified Financial Planners exam which only 61,390 people have done since 1991(56% success rate.) I've completed multiple projects this year that no one else in the office even came close to finishing, passed a major test, and been pretty damn reliable.

I strongly believe that I'm being underpaid now and would like to know the best way to bring that up at the review tomorrow. I don't want to threaten anyone with leaving, I think that's implied if I tell them I'm unhappy with the number, but I can't leave a bunch of money on the table. If anyone has some good tips I'm all ears.

[PugnacAutMortem]

I think you just did a great job of it. Say all of that stuff and let them you know you really like working there but you need some more money to be commensurate with your experience and performance. Let us know how it goes...I will be in a similar situation in a couple months I think.

[MarkCO]

With all due respect, the vast majority of what you said will fall on deaf ears.

In today's economy, the guy at the top is getting less, so it is less likely he/they will offer you more. Passing tests, have certificaitons and qualificaitons and such means ZILCH, if you are not producing!

Being in finance, you should know it is the $ that talks and not much else. You have to come up with a way to emphasize how you uniquely brought in more revenue. If you did not bring in more revenue in 2012 than 2011, then how can you ask for a raise?

[Zundfolge]

Along with simply stating the case you stated above, if you can come up with documentation that shows that you're underpaid relative to the market that would help buttress your position.

[Danimal]

I would just ask for maximum and see what they say. Honestly if you are in that position, the best thing that you can do is start looking at other jobs out there. See what is available now and apply for a few of them if you find something that you want. That way you can walk up to your employer and say that you have been offered a job for X and you would like to stay where you are at, so what can they do to make that happen. I was in the same position a year ago and that is what I did. When I found a few jobs that I would have applied for I told him that I was looking and told him why, then I was offered a raise to that pay if I were to stay. I accepted.

[GlockDog47]

I will be lucky to see a wopping $0.60 a hr increase. So be happy with what you get.

[Gman]

If you can do better elsewhere, move on. If not, be happy with what you have.

[StreetDoctor]

I will be lucky to see a wopping $0.60 a hr increase. So be happy with what you get.

"I can't have it so neither can you" that's a great mentality! I bet you're a union basher too?

[Great-Kazoo]

Along with simply stating the case you stated above, if you can come up with documentation that shows that you're underpaid relative to the market that would help buttress your position.

Market doesn't mean shit. It used to be what you are producing and numbers on paper that counted. Unfortunately in todays market the mentality of "most" employers is "Be thankful you have a job", not one of we're lucky to have you on board.

[blacklabel]

Make your case and start looking for another job. I'm not expecting jack at work and my productivity is easily 200% of what others have produced in my position. I'm constantly looking for something better.

[esaabye]

I once told an employee, "If you can't negotiate for your own salary, what can I expect when you are negotiating on my behalf?"

If you want something, best have your data ready, feelings don't matter.
Best know what is possible, can't get blood from a turnip.
Better be willing to walk away from the deal if you put it on the table, idol threats will not help. If you suggest you will look elsewhere then they will replace you regardless of the outcome of the negotiation.

[buckeye4rnr]

I once told an employee, "If you can't negotiate for your own salary, what can I expect when you are negotiating on my behalf?"

If you want something, best have your data ready, feelings don't matter.
Best know what is possible, can't get blood from a turnip.
Better be willing to walk away from the deal if you put it on the table, idol threats will not help. If you suggest you will look elsewhere then they will replace you regardless of the outcome of the negotiation.

Data is ready, paid for it but if I get any extra money it'll be worth it.

Im not going to make any threats, idle or not. I like working there but I can't leave a full 7k on the table so I will quietly start looking if they don't come up.

[trlcavscout]

Do you have facial hair? Where I work hard work doesnt mean shit! If you want the big whopping 3% you gotta smooch some chocolate starfish. And they tend to like the tickle of facial hair. I think with most companies anymore its who you blow not how good you are. Man 3k that would rock!!! That would almost put me at the poverty level.

[kwando]

The norm is 2-3%, and that was 5 years ago. I'd be happy with 0% as long as i still have a job

[hatidua]

If anyone has some good tips I'm all ears.

If you earn it, you won't have to sell the justification thereof. No company wants to lose good talent.

-But I suspect you knew that.

[10mm-man]

With all due respect, the vast majority of what you said will fall on deaf ears.

In today's economy, the guy at the top is getting less, so it is less likely he/they will offer you more. Passing tests, have certificaitons and qualificaitons and such means ZILCH, if you are not producing!

Being in finance, you should know it is the $ that talks and not much else. You have to come up with a way to emphasize how you uniquely brought in more revenue. If you did not bring in more revenue in 2012 than 2011, then how can you ask for a raise?


It is really all about the $. I let PM's run my projects and if I have a fatter bottom line I cut checks! If your making the company $$, your making $$$ and it's demonstrated in the bonus. Show em the numbers and how much more they made this year over last because of you and it should be a no brainer..... Good Luck!

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Must be nice to get raises........ :(

[Clint45]

In this economy, be thankful you have a job. Right now I'm making half of what I was earning 2 years ago. Hearing someone whining about "only" getting an extra 3K raise when they think they deserve 7K is a new experience for me. I'm guessing you probably wear a tie.

[jerrymrc]

Fucking piece of shit private sector workers. Always getting a raise and for what? Doing your job? You need to find some balls and work for the .Gov so ya know what it would feel like to have your net check decrease by $280 per month over the last three years. .......

By the way there is sarcasm (and some truth) in there. Some will get it due to past threads. [Flower]

[Irving]

Where is HighClassWhiteTrash to blame the Unions?

[<MADDOG>]

Perhaps it is best to ask directly? "What can I do", or "What have I not done" to earn a larger raise?

I find questions are more powerful then statements. You don't know what you don't know...

[gnihcraes]

Fucking piece of shit private sector workers. Always getting a raise and for what? Doing your job? You need to find some balls and work for the .Gov so ya know what it would feel like to have your net check decrease by $280 per month over the last three years. .......
By the way there is sarcasm (and some truth) in there. Some will get it due to past threads. [Flower]

Three years? Try 5-7 years. Still waiting for cost of living. Top performer multiple times and still get jack. Stupid economy. I need the private sector to pick up, pay their fair share! :)

[jerrymrc]

Three years? Try 5-7 years. Still waiting for cost of living. Top performer multiple times and still get jack. Stupid economy. I need the private sector to pick up, pay their fair share! :)

That's the spirit. Now that I have read that the BIG hit in health care premiums come NEXT year I am worried. 2010 was $40 per month. 2011 was $60 2012 was $60 and 2013 was $80.

The old way of working and saving does not work anymore.

[sniper7]

Sounds like a good approach with what you wrote. Hope for the best, but if you get $3k a year, that is a lot better than NADA or a termination/furlough notice.

[ChunkyMonkey]

My annual review is tomorrow and the comp number, I'm 98% sure I'll be offered, is about 3k shy of the minimum I was expecting. It's also, I just found out, 7k shy of what someone with my experience and qualifications is earning. I'm willing to concede a little bit of money because I like the work environment and it's low stress but that only counts for so much and a 3k raise doesn't do it.

I've had no major slip ups at work, all feedback has been really minor stuff(ex. messy desk) and recently just passed the Certified Financial Planners exam which only 61,390 people have done since 1991(56% success rate.) I've completed multiple projects this year that no one else in the office even came close to finishing, passed a major test, and been pretty damn reliable.

I strongly believe that I'm being underpaid now and would like to know the best way to bring that up at the review tomorrow. I don't want to threaten anyone with leaving, I think that's implied if I tell them I'm unhappy with the number, but I can't leave a bunch of money on the table. If anyone has some good tips I'm all ears.

If I were your boss, I would then ask you what's stopping you from getting the 7k more at whatever place supposedly your experience and qualification is earning. I hate corporate jobs.. USWest was my first and last corporate job.

Tell you boss, you'll prove yourself by earning commission only. [Coffee]

[Madeinhb]

You are what you are worth. If you think you are worth more, go to other companies and see what they will pay you.

[tmckay2]

well what the hell do i know, i am probably the most conservative person here in regards to my employers, but i wouldn't ask for anything, especially in this economy. the job i have i could have negotiated the contract, its not uncommon, and i had three other jobs offers paying just as much. but i decided not to risk it. whats 3k, or 7k, if it pisses off my employer or makes them feel i am an ungrateful prick? as stated, companies want good workers, no matter what it is in or who is the boss. they won't purposefully and plainly screw good people out of equal pay, they know people will just leave. if i didn't get a raise for a few years and other people were i would probably ask what i can do to earn a raise, but certainly wouldn't ask for it. i figure i am lucky to have a job, even if i could take another one, and if you like the place i wouldn't risk messing it up. much of it is perception. also, in my business i know cuts are always possible, if they happen i don't want to give them any reason to cut me first, so i just shut my mouth and bust my ass, even if i don't always get more money for it.

but thats just me. like i said i am kind of old school and view myself as lucky to have a good job and thank my employer for that and whatever pay they deem fair. if its grossly unjust i will just leave.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Where is HighClassWhiteTrash to blame the Unions?

Hahaha I wasn't going to say anything till you brought me into it. Lol. We got a 2% raise that was 5 months late but back payed. The non union employees to no raise but bonuses ranging from 5-15%. This was to help show the arbitrator that none of the non union employees got 'raises'. Sorry for the derail.

Good luck amigo.

[KestrelBike]

All of this "I'm lucky to have a job and get whatever my employer deigns to give me" is a bit disheartening. If I'm busting my ass to be a good employee, if I'm using my education and my intelligence and discipline to do a good job not just to cover my ass but to honestly benefit the company, then I want to be paid the amount that I am honestly worth to the company. No more, no less. I don't give a shit how the rest of the economy is doing, I care about how the company is doing and how much they would have to pay someone else to do the quality work that I currently do if I no longer worked there. Anything less and I'm gettin taken advantage of (lol I currently am)

[TheGrey]

I wish you luck. I don't know about the viability of raises vs. whether your job will magically disappear if you dare ask. It seems to me if you've been there a while, your boss values you enough to explain that a large raise isn't in the cards this year- or whether they listen and agree that you've earned it. If your employer can't provide the raise you are asking for, you might want to ask if they can provide some extra benefits instead? Some businesses have unexpected benefits that show they do appreciate your contributions, even if it can't be expressed in dollars.

[Gman]

Like a new job title in lieu of pay? [Muaha]

[dwalker460]

My wife is in Corporate Finance, and its tough out there. Good luck.

[waxthis]

Try and get one or two offer letters from another company, and use these during your review. Not as a means to threaten them, but more of a way to show that other companies value you based on your qualifications. This along with your current work ethic and current job performance should get you what you want. It got me what I wanted.... Good luck!!

[kwando]

We are loosing head count at my job, we cannot backfill people who are leaving. So the current employees have to contribute more with the same pay, that's how it is. If I don't like it I know where the door is, but I enjoy my job and have a lot of perks. The job market is picking up so if you dont get a raise maybe someone else will value your work more.

[buckeye4rnr]

I enjoy my job but if by taking the raise that I'm going to be offered, I leave 7k on the table, I think it's a stupid decision.

The worst they can do is say no. They won't fire me for asking for more money and showing them my reasoning behind it. If they do... well I don't want to work for people like that anyway.

[PugnacAutMortem]

I enjoy my job but if by taking the raise that I'm going to be offered, I leave 7k on the table, I think it's a stupid decision.

The worst they can do is say no. They won't fire me for asking for more money and showing them my reasoning behind it. If they do... well I don't want to work for people like that anyway.

Amen. And yeah 7K is worth fighting for in my opinion.

[ChadAmberg]

I'm in IT and when it comes to raise time, I simply leave Dice.com loaded on my computer for the boss to wander by and see...

Nah, I figure standard raises are for the guy who shows up and does his job every day. About the time for getting a raise is also the time to update the resume. Not for sending it out, but for keeping track of "Over the last year, I: put this product in place which saves the company 500k$/yr, migrated these servers to new virtuals which saved the company 500k$/yr, etc." This way when it is time to look for a new position, you've got all that stuff tracked which is what I would want to see when I interview you.

Specifics matter, as does price estimates. Figure out the average at your company. Each manager has 30 customers and a portfolio of 10 million, but you pulled in 5 extra customers and an extra 3 million. Talk about how much harder you worked to get that one leg up over your coworkers/competition. "That's why my desk is dirty! I'm too damn busy taking care of MY customers!"

[MarkCO]

So, when do we get to find out what happened??

[buckeye4rnr]

The base isn't changing from what they offered... yet. They were VERY interested in the compensation study I presented so there's a possibility it may change in a few months but my bonus is definitely getting changed. I'm not sure on the specifics yet but for now I'm doing the whole wait and see thing. Hopefully it'll be a lot clearer and more structured so I know exactly what I have to do to get more money instead of showing up, getting shit done, and hoping for the best.

[rondog]

Wow. It's 2:30 right now and I've been warming a chair at the unemployment office since 7:30 just to clear up someone else's mistake. Some employers, it really doesn't matter how hard you work or how much you produce. Sometimes it's just pure fucking greed, they can't pay you more because they'll make less. Or the top dogs want more so the lower dogs have to "cut costs" so the better performers that are paid higher get the axe. Corporate jobs suck. The last co. I worked for is the most chickenshit outfit in the business. In that company, "loyalty" means what dirty shit you're willing to do to make the CEO a bigger bonus.

Fuck 'em.

[KestrelBike]

The base isn't changing from what they offered... yet. They were VERY interested in the compensation study I presented so there's a possibility it may change in a few months but my bonus is definitely getting changed. I'm not sure on the specifics yet but for now I'm doing the whole wait and see thing. Hopefully it'll be a lot clearer and more structured so I know exactly what I have to do to get more money instead of showing up, getting shit done, and hoping for the best.

Sounds like they're hoping you'll forget about everything.

[tmckay2]

Hahaha I wasn't going to say anything till you brought me into it. Lol. We got a 2% raise that was 5 months late but back payed. The non union employees to no raise but bonuses ranging from 5-15%. This was to help show the arbitrator that none of the non union employees got 'raises'. Sorry for the derail.

Good luck amigo.

i think there is something to be said about doing the work well and busting your ass without a hand out. if the guy next to me is dragging ass and getting paid more, fine thats different, if i EXPECT a raise, in this economy, when almost every company is tightening their belt, and i didn't do anything astronomically different than everyone else (most employees are busting ass) then i think that is a bit self absorbed in our current climate and potentially dangerous in some fields.

[AR_ART]

There are some really good suggestions on here, the ones that actually address your question...

I agree with the ones that state, "show how you positively affected the companies bottom line". IMO, just doing your job doesn't merit a raise. I'm a worker bee and not a boss so I don't have the ability to quantify my actions into actual dollars. But I know if I have a task due in 90 days and I'm done in 60 it means I can go on to the next thing. Therefore either saving money as the extra 30 days becomes profit or it allows me to move on to another task. If I create a tool that helps everyone save time doing their task I put that down too...

[MarkCO]

There are some really good suggestions on here, the ones that actually address your question...

I agree with the ones that state, "show how you positively affected the companies bottom line". IMO, just doing your job doesn't merit a raise. I'm a worker bee and not a boss so I don't have the ability to quantify my actions into actual dollars. But I know if I have a task due in 90 days and I'm done in 60 it means I can go on to the next thing. Therefore either saving money as the extra 30 days becomes profit or it allows me to move on to another task. If I create a tool that helps everyone save time doing their task I put that down too...

I started working when I was 14, so I could buy a car after my Dad said he would not buy me one like he did my sister...shaped me in very positive ways. But even being a worker bee at that young age, I realized that I could affect the bottom line even if I couldn't put tangible dollars to it. When my boss knew I would get things done and he did not have to check my work and babysit me, that provided him the opportunity to go after new clients and be the rainmaker. I have had employees that padded their numbers to make themselves look good, others who played on the internet while asking for more money (based on salary research on the internet) but refusing to increase productivity. If you are not a rainmaker, then your job is to bust your butt and do the best job possible so your supervisor/boss/company look good and in turn free up the rainmakers to, well, make rain. It is a pretty simple concept. Entitlement, Union, Government worker thinking has permeated the private sector and yes good people are hard to find.