Buying American is it really worth it? [Archive] - Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums

Haroldlutsen

01-22-2013, 10:00

HBARleatherneck

01-22-2013, 10:03

delete

alxone

01-22-2013, 10:03

i have no loyalty when buying used items but when it comes to new i try to buy american

Dave_L

01-22-2013, 10:07

Toyotas are awesome. They'll run like a top for years with minimal maintenance work. It's pretty simple. The big three got a bad rep here in American over the past decade or so while companies like Toyota, Hyundai, Honda seemed to step their game up. The domestics seem to be getting a little better these days and I still like the American full sized trucks. The notion that we should buy American just because "it's American" is ridiculous and is probably why they lost so much steam. They assumed people would keep buying them and their quality went down hill as they cut corners or stopped innovating. It doesn't mean I'll never buy "American", just not until they can offer the same value/quality product that these other companies are putting out there.

Haroldlutsen

01-22-2013, 10:08

I only buy American, if its possible. I have never owned a foreign car. Even if the foreign car was built here. I realize because of outsourcing and UNION bullshit, its not quite so clear cut about who you are helping. But, for me I buy American. Not assembled in me hico, not jap company building in Tennessee. I dont expect others to do what I do. But, I can live with myself knowing I live by my own set of morals. And I stick to them.

Exactly the way I think buy American (made and assembled) its gotta help plus I believe our quality is now equal to if not above Japanese or especially Korean cars

Inconel710

01-22-2013, 10:09

It comes down to a perception of quality. The big 3 burned alot of bridges in the late 70's and 80's when they made cars that were mostly crap. They've closed alot of the "quality gap" but Toyota and Honda still have great reputations for being reliable cars. I bought a Dodge Dakota new and it took three trips to the dealer to get them to find the poorly machined throttle body that was whistling. Contrast that with the Honda Civic I had that just ran and ran and ran. I still kick myself for letting my exwife keep it. I don't understand the Korean car love, but I will say I've been tempted by them - lots of features at a low price and they're assembled in Alabama.

Ashton

01-22-2013, 10:10

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/upf-domestic-bliss-list-photo-392470-s-original.jpg

cofi

01-22-2013, 10:13

I just can't understand the loyalty to Japanese and Korean cars. I understand I could be wrong and don't know global economics that's why I am asking
my Honda has over 255k in the last three years it has needed a battery and front pads

my gmc has 132k on it since October it has needed
pads
rotors
calipers
hubs
water pump
thermostat
plugs
wires
coil
front diff
transfer case switch
front axle actuator

plus it leaks every fluid it has in it
(I still love my truck)

my ex girlfriend owned a 07 elantra she bought the car new when I met her it had 60k on it I beat the shit out of it for another 20k one day I asked when she had last changed the oil.....she hadn't she was under the assumption it was supposed to be changed at 100k you should have seen the sludge that came out of it....that car is still running around today just fine it's like a fucking ak47

we will only buy Japanese or Korean for our daily drivers they are built far superior to American and German.....and at the end of the day isn't that what capitalism is about? the best stuff does well the junk dissent?

MED

01-22-2013, 10:13

The profits go to the parent company. We don't talk about the trade deficit much anymore, but far more leaves this country than what is brought back.

There are very few imports that I like. I absolutely hate the look and feel of Asian cars; there is not one thing positive I can say about that crap. I can tolerate some of the European cars especially their current diesel technology.

I purchased American cars for the past 25 years because I like them! I like small and big block muscle cars, diesel trucks, and luxury cruisers. Every car I have purchased served me well because I buy the stuff they do well and stay away from they stuff they don't.

Although, I don't think is really going to matter much longer. The dollar is going to come crashing down and we as a country won't be able to buy foreign goods anyway.

Ashton

01-22-2013, 10:14

Toyota is far more american then ford. ;) I think the only truly american american car is the corvette...

Ronin13

01-22-2013, 10:20

Nice chart Ashton... I knew that the Spartanburg BMW plant put out the X-SUVs, they used to make the Z3 and Z4 there as well- except for one caveat, the engines are designed, built and then shipped from Bavaria, Germany, keeping the German "soul" of BMWs assembled here. For the record- when it comes to most things I do try to be patriotic and buy American- my AR, shotgun, and Sig (sort of, N.H. plant but German-ish company) are all American, my 1911 is made in Brazil (Springfield), my AK is from Romania, and my Glock is from Austria. Sure I drive a German car, but most of what I buy, weather it's made here or elsewhere, I buy from American retailers and distributors, thus paying American wages. But I don't need to proudly display that I "only buy 'Merican," I feel I've done enough for my country and don't need to justify to anyone my level of patriotism.

Zundfolge

01-22-2013, 10:22

I buy the best I can afford.

For most manufactured goods made since the early 1970s that means you're not buying American.

That said I drive an "American" made Chrysler (I put American in scare quotes because it's actually made in Mexico). But honestly if I didn't have an extremely frugal wife I'd probably drive nothing but German cars (and old ones at that).

As for buying American being some sort of patriotic duty, that's bushwah ... buying American made products more often than not lines the pockets of some Marxist labor union that ends up sending the profits to the Democrats and I can't think of anything more un-american than that.

MED

01-22-2013, 10:23

my Honda has over 255k in the last three years it has needed a battery and front pads

my gmc has 132k on it since October it has needed
pads
rotors
calipers
hubs
water pump
thermostat
plugs
wires
coil
front diff
transfer case switch
front axle actuator

plus it leaks every fluid it has in it
(I still love my truck)

my ex girlfriend owned a 07 elantra she bought the car new when I met her it had 60k on it I beat the shit out of it for another 20k one day I asked when she had last changed the oil.....she hadn't she was under the assumption it was supposed to be changed at 100k you should have seen the sludge that came out of it....that car is still running around today just fine it's like a fucking ak47

we will only buy Japanese or Korean for our daily drivers they are built far superior to American and German.....and at the end of the day isn't that what capitalism is about? the best stuff does well the junk dissent?

My brother's '95 4Runner:

He did the maintenance at 90k (timing belt and water pump) brakes and shocks + all the factory required maintenance intervals.

At 133K, two cylinders were dead. I am the one who pulled the heads...two burnt valves. The machinist mentioned that my brother was one of the lucky ones...usually the heads are cracked on this 3.0 POS.

I also did the timing belt, water pump, clutch, and CV shaft that was trashed.

Not to mention that the company didn't put a strong enough blower in the vehicle to actually defrost the entire front windshield. All four 4Runners that my brother owned 90, 92, 94, and 95 could only defrost half the front windshield.

Yep, great vehicle!

asmo

01-22-2013, 10:27

I have owned a total of 8 Jeeps in the last 20 years. Then I bought an Audi... and now I have a Toyota..

I'm never going back to Jeep ever again. HORRIBLE service in Colorado and they were always broken down.

The Audi I absolutly loved -- while it was in warranty. But as soon it was out of warranty everything was 1k or more to fix and it had to be done RIGHT NOW OR EVERYONE WILL DIE A HORRIBLE PAINFUL DISEASE..

With the Toyota everything just works. Runs great. No issues with service -- and the resale value its awesome.

DD977GM2

01-22-2013, 10:27

I have stopped the whole buy American thing since when I buy something I want quality and do not want to
waste my money. Most "American" companys have their shit made elsewhere and put the made in America label.

HBARleatherneck

01-22-2013, 10:31

delete

Marlin

01-22-2013, 10:34

I'll never buy another "new" GM product ever again. And it has nothing to do with "quality".

griebel303

01-22-2013, 10:35

The Audi I absolutly loved -- while it was in warranty. But as soon it was out of warranty everything was 1k or more to fix and it had to be done RIGHT NOW OR EVERYONE WILL DIE A HORRIBLE PAINFUL DISEASE..

This. I made the mistake of buying an audi a few years ago. It is great until the warranty expires and then it is just stupid to repair. Needless to say I will be making the switch away from this "wonderful" german car this year. I will be looking for a Tundra or a Ram 1500 in its place.

Ghosty

01-22-2013, 10:47

Toyotas are awesome... They assumed people would keep buying them and their quality went down hill as they cut corners or stopped innovating. It doesn't mean I'll never buy "American", just not until they can offer the same value/quality product that these other companies are putting out there.

The big 3 burned alot of bridges in the late 70's and 80's when they made cars that were mostly crap...I don't understand the Korean car love, but I will say I've been tempted by them - lots of features at a low price and they're assembled in Alabama.
My thoughts pretty much. As for Hyundai/Kia, the new Optima is sick, amazing car loaded with features, and is a very nice looking sedan, for CHEAP.

Ford HAS indeed been stepping up to compete. I'm very impressed by the latest Explorer and Fusion, they're some badass looking vehicles with all the bells & whistles.

two shoes

01-22-2013, 10:53

This. I made the mistake of buying an audi a few years ago. It is great until the warranty expires and then it is just stupid to repair. Needless to say I will be making the switch away from this "wonderful" german car this year. I will be looking for a Tundra or a Ram 1500 in its place.
http://s1.aecdn.com/images/news/2012-sema-toyota-ultimate-fishing-tundra-live-photos-51363-7.jpg

soldier-of-the-apocalypse

01-22-2013, 10:54

my Honda has over 255k in the last three years it has needed a battery and front pads

my gmc has 132k on it since October it has needed
pads
rotors
calipers
hubs
water pump
thermostat
plugs
wires
coil
front diff
transfer case switch
front axle actuator

plus it leaks every fluid it has in it
(I still love my truck)

my ex girlfriend owned a 07 elantra she bought the car new when I met her it had 60k on it I beat the shit out of it for another 20k one day I asked when she had last changed the oil.....she hadn't she was under the assumption it was supposed to be changed at 100k you should have seen the sludge that came out of it....that car is still running around today just fine it's like a fucking ak47

we will only buy Japanese or Korean for our daily drivers they are built far superior to American and German.....and at the end of the day isn't that what capitalism is about? the best stuff does well the junk dissent?

Well I have 350k or maybe more on my american made dodge cummins I prefure to buy used. I find it verry wasteful to buy new products when there is nothing wrong with our old products. By the way if you look at your VIN at the first numeral if its a 1 its usa 2 is japan 3 is mexico

Delfuego

01-22-2013, 10:55

The most "Made In America" automobile is the Toyota Camry. It has more American components and and the most American labor of any current vehicle...

ChadAmberg

01-22-2013, 10:55

I lived near both GM and Chrysler plants for years. I know so many friends and relatives who built all your American cars. Based on the amount of drugs and drinking AT WORK, I have a hard time even riding as a passenger, and will never own one. Politically, I'd consider a Ford, I just don't like the ghetto styling they've had lately. Then again, politically, I will not support any union if I can possibly help it.

It's funny though, most (but not all) of the American car drivers think its OK to go for service a couple times a year, and that's "reliable". I'm not talking oil change, I'm talking getting things fixed that are broken. My track record with 7 or 8 Japanese or Korean cars over the past 20 years: replaced struts on once car, an engine computer reprogram to make it work better at altitude, a sunroof was adjusted, and reapplied the glue holding the rear view mirror onto the windshield. There you go.

Aloha_Shooter

01-22-2013, 11:08

"Worth" -- like beauty -- is in the eye of the beholder. I considered my Sebring the best value for the money in a convertible when I bought it in 1999. Today's models are overdesigned and cost too much to overcome the quality gap.

When it came time to replace my SUV, I considered Toyota but it really came down to the Ford Expedition EL or GMC Suburban due to the passenger and payload space I desired for my Scout activities. Nobody else really makes something that carries 8 people plus equipment without having to go to some kind of van.

For what it's worth today, I refuse to buy Government Motors over issues other than price and quality.

HBARleatherneck

01-22-2013, 11:11

delete

sniper7

01-22-2013, 11:20

I stick to my gm vehicles whenever i buy new...which is every couple years.

I have had a couple hondas and a volkswagon and liked them well enough.

cofi

01-22-2013, 11:24

I can tell you no jap makers make vehicles big enough for six or more car seats and two adults. hell, most manufacturers dont make a big enough vehicle for us. not even suburban or excursion.
http://www.readivan.com/data/vehicledetails-41045026ea3337595.jpg

HBARleatherneck

01-22-2013, 11:25

delete

ChunkyMonkey

01-22-2013, 11:26

I refuse to buy or deal with libtards + bailout giants such as citi bank/AIG/GM. Foreign products being sold in the US creates US jobs. A $2 tshirt made in China is sold here for $20 retail. There are still few hundred percent markup between wholesaler and retail to benefit all of us locally.

GilpinGuy

01-22-2013, 11:27

griebel303

01-22-2013, 11:33

http://s1.aecdn.com/images/news/2012-sema-toyota-ultimate-fishing-tundra-live-photos-51363-7.jpg

Hell yeah! I need that. I am sure I can get the wife's buy in....

ChunkyMonkey

01-22-2013, 11:36

HBARleatherneck

01-22-2013, 11:38

delete

Melvin

01-22-2013, 11:45

I love my Filson clothing. I love my Jeeps. I love my Dogfish Head 120min IPAs. I love my Kimbers. I love my Texas BBQ. I hate H D noise buckets.

kidicarus13

01-22-2013, 11:51

I will never buy a vehicle based on sympathy or patriotism. I will always buy based on what best fits my current needs.

MarkCO

01-22-2013, 12:07

funkymonkey1111

01-22-2013, 12:08

I am no longer allowed to comment on the Jeep vs Toyota thread, I guess I might of gotten off subject or something. Anyway I would like a to debate the merits or not of buying American made (if possible) vs Foreign made, I would like to keep it respectful and just learn if I'm wrong about the way I think. I just think it would be better in the long run if we would buy American made cars from American based companies (for the record I think it is BS that the big three have Mexican and Canadian assembly plants) I just can't understand the loyalty to Japanese and Korean cars. I understand I could be wrong and don't know global economics that's why I am asking

This is what I don't understand about you. In the thread yesterday, you said you were a union worker here in the US. It would seem then that your alliance would be with the worker that lives in here America. While GM and Ford, and now more increasingly Chrysler (which can you even say is an American car company anymore?) outsource their production around the world, costing American jobs, yet you have loyalty to the emblem on the car, regardless of where it was made. The management decided to move production outside our borders, but you still consider a Mexican made truck with the letters GMC on it to be an American product and you still have allegiance to the company that outsourced American jobs.

Enter the foreign owned companies. The create jobs here within the U.S. But somehow you don't think this is a benefit to the United States, and you can't conceive that a Camry, Accord, or Outback are more American than that Mexican GMC Sierra.

Does it really matter where the money to the parent company goes to the man building a Subaru in Indiana? No, it matters that he's at work, building a product that GM decided it would be better to build in Mexico.

Or, is your problem, as you've described yourself as a union member, a dislike that the foreign companies pay a decent wage to the American worker while producing a superior product without union labor in most instances?

Aloha_Shooter

01-22-2013, 12:09

i can guarantee that wont fit 6 car seats. just because they say they seat 8 doesnt mean you can get that many car seats in it. plus , we arent done.

we know alot of big families and they have tried every jap and American car trying to fit that many car seats in. Alot of them dont want to go to a full size Van.

Yeah, it doesn't work if you're talking about car seats. I can take 7 passengers in my Expedition EL (and do) as long as the 2 of the 3 in the back row are really small or skinny but I think you could only get 2 car seats in that row. I know it gets cramped in there when I'm ferrying 7 passengers but that's not my problem. [LOL]

Kind of amazing to think you've got six all at the age of needing car seats though ... the wife must be a saint!

PugnacAutMortem

01-22-2013, 12:10

I've been Jeep guy for the last 15 or so years - owned nothing else. Now they are going to made in China? [facepalm]

I've had great luck with the good old Cherokees, a ZJ Grand and my 99 TJ that I still drive daily. The WJ's...not so much. Basically, every one that I've owned that had the 6 cyl. in it just ran and ran. The V8 can suck it.

I had that 4.0L High Output engine in my Cherokee...that's one of the best engines ever invented. Easy to work on and damn near bulletproof. I miss my Cherokee...

Haroldlutsen

01-22-2013, 12:14

The most "Made In America" automobile is the Toyota Camry. It has more American components and and the most American labor of any current vehicle...

I'm sure that's probably correct good pr move by Toyota advertise "most American content and labor" while still sending profits back to Japan, It probably is good economic sense for them using our raw materials and labor and get to keep profits for themselves. Also I never have disputed they're overall quality probably started the culture it is "ok" to buy foreign I just think ford gm and Chrysler have caught up and if we quit buying Toyotas and Kia etc, we would need more Chevys and fords

Aloha_Shooter

01-22-2013, 12:18

If I can, I buy products from US companies, with US workers with US sourced materials. If I can buy from a Colorado company, all the better. When we started Carbon Arms, we had some tough decisions to make. But, everything we produce is US made by US citizens with US materials. It costs more, but that is how we roll.

I do that when I can -- or at least try to avoid buying from Commie countries (yes, I refuse to buy Russian or Chinese ammo or guns) -- but it's often difficult even when you're willing to pay more. I've found a good source for dress shoes for work -- and it really doesn't cost much more than buying Chicom-made shoes at Macy's or Dillard's or what have you -- but try to find quality tents or backpacks made in the U.S. It's often hard to find stuff made in the US even if you were willing to give a little up on quality.

Stossel is against "Buy Local" as he thinks buying the best-made or least expensive puts pressure on local manufacturers to up their game and I agree with him to a point but I'm still willing to pay a little more for equal quality made locally versus Chicom slave labor. A lot of times it really comes down to the specific product(s) and manufacturing practices as I'd rather not subsidize the AFL-CIO's destruction of the American economy either.

MarkCO

01-22-2013, 12:23

I agree Aloha_Shooter.

Car Batteries for instance...I only buy US Made Spirocell designs...better quality, twice the price, no kids in India died in the making of my battery.

Ghosty

01-22-2013, 12:29

Car Batteries for instance...I only buy US Made Spirocell designs...better quality, twice the price, no kids in India died in the making of my battery.

List the American-made brands for the rest of us. Is Optima (expensive) one of them? How about the ones you get at Autozone (Duralast)?

PugnacAutMortem

01-22-2013, 12:34

I will never buy a vehicle based on sympathy or patriotism. I will always buy based on what best fits my current needs.

[Beer]

My thoughts exactly. If there's a better productfor less money than an American product, then that's what I'm going to buy. That's the essence of capitalism. If all Americans bought the best product instead of buying based on the feelings of being a patriot, American products would come down in price and would become higher quality. If that's what you do then that's just fine, but don't look down on others for buying otherwise.

HBARleatherneck

01-22-2013, 12:41

delete

trlcavscout

01-22-2013, 12:43

you cant compare a full size truck to a little jap car COFI. of course the truck is going to wear first. it is 3 times the weight and isnt used for driving to starbucks only.

i have a 94 f350 crew cab 4x4. it had 208,000 miles of hard pulling and work before it needed anything but brakes and oil changes. I have a 1995 E350 15 passenger van, and it also runs great and has needed nothing but 1 set of brakes and oil changes. I have a 2003 ranger that I also bought new. It has 145,000 miles on it. and it has never needed anything. I did replace the clutch and brakes a few months ago. But, they were actually still in perfect shape (amazingly) but, since I had everything disassembled, I replaced them anyway. That truck gets used like a full sized truck.

Exactly, comparing a 2k lb car to a 5k lb truck is not right, the truck is meant for pulling, towing, hauling, there are more drivetrain parts in a 4x4 truck vs a FWD car. Their will be more maintenance and repairs. The heaviest thing a honda carries is a lesbian to star bucks! My Chevy CO has 40k on it and hasnt even had an oil change in 20k.

BushMasterBoy

01-22-2013, 12:46

2007 Silverado 4X4. Last week I left the GPS on overnight and it was very cold, killed the battery. So I tried to start it but the motor barely turned over. Put the charger on the battery, let it charge. Then go to start it, but the door locks, overhead lights etc. don't work. It won't start! I replace the battery with an Optima. Still no start. I google the truck forums and folks say the (BCM) body control module is shot. I call on the OnStar for a free tow to the dealer. I tell the service manager at dealer truck is on its way. The next day I get the truck, $563. $200 for labor and programming the module, 300 bucks for the module. Optima I bought from Sams club won't fit due to angled ground battery clamp. I got the right battery from Batteries Plus for $170 plus tax. If I had the money I'd buy this First Gen Dodge....

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/3557669953.html

kidicarus13

01-22-2013, 12:51

Loyalty, Patriotism and Ethics are long gone when it comes how people choose to live, much less their purchasing decisions. The VAST majority of people, Americans included, do what they "feel" is best for them. Yes, it is often selfish, short sighted and hollow, but that is the Amreica we now live in.

If I can, I buy products from US companies, with US workers with US sourced materials. If I can buy from a Colorado company, all the better. When we started Carbon Arms, we had some tough decisions to make. But, everything we produce is US made by US citizens with US materials. It costs more, but that is how we roll.

There is no incentive for those companies on the bottom to improve their price and/or product if their company can stay afloat because of people buying with their heart and not using reason in their decision making process. The same reason we continue to see more Americans taking handouts, there is no incentive to be self-supporting when the gov't gives able bodied persons things they could otherwise work for. American companies are entitiled to NOTHING, they need to be competitive if they want to survive. If in the long run if that means American's standard of living has to go down than so be it.

MarkCO

01-22-2013, 12:52

List the American-made brands for the rest of us. Is Optima (expensive) one of them? How about the ones you get at Autozone (Duralast)?

Optima (CO origins) is one and I think still holds some patents. Exide has one now and there are a few others under license. They are safer to make in the first place, but they also are high tech enough that kids in huts in India can't make them. I use Optimas.

rondog

01-22-2013, 12:55

MarkCO

01-22-2013, 12:59

There is no incentive for those companies on the bottom to improve their price and/or product if their company can stay afloat because of people buying with their heart and not using reason in their decision making process. The same reason we continue to see more Americans taking handouts, there is no incentive to be self-supporting when the gov't gives able bodied persons things they could otherwise work for. American companies are entitiled to NOTHING, they need to be competitive if they want to survive. If in the long run if that means American's standard of living has to go down than so be it.

Incentive, oh yes there is. At the end, all you have is your word and your integrity. I do it because it is right and that is how I want my kids to live too. There is no such thing as a man on an island. Everytihng we do and say has a consequence. Most are just so self involved they can't see the repercussions.

PugnacAutMortem

01-22-2013, 13:15

see what happens when you buy non American made?

Barack Obama.

They could have bought a natural born American, but they opted to buy foreign.

Can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic...

rondog

01-22-2013, 14:04

Can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic...
My money says he's serious. Sumbitch ain't no American, that's for sure.

tmleadr03

01-22-2013, 14:10

My preference is of course for Eurotrash cars, but lets not kid ourselves they all brake down. If they didn't then you wouldn't have any mechanics for any of the brands. There isn't a single brand out there that does not have some issues.

I personally just like the issue associated with German cars over Domestic and Asian.

soldier-of-the-apocalypse

01-22-2013, 14:15

I don't understand all the hate about shopping at WalMart. I mean, for most of us, it's about getting the most for your bucks, and being able to get nearly everything you need in one stop is great. Between me and the wife, we usually only go to WalMart, King Soopers, PetSmart and sometimes Target.

If you ever had your own business you would know why. It's impossible for little guys to compete with chinamart. Why do you think there are so many empty store fronts in America I'm sure chinamart has a large percentage to do with it. I always will spend a little extra to shop local.

PugnacAutMortem

01-22-2013, 14:25

My money says he's serious. Sumbitch ain't no American, that's for sure.

I should have been more specific. I agree with that part, I just couldn't tell if the first sentence was serious or sarcastic.

Ronin13

01-22-2013, 14:31

If I had the money I'd buy this First Gen Dodge....

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/3557669953.html
That's a sweet truck! You know the guy who is selling it is redneck as hell, he's got a Mossy Oak seatbelt pad and a Mossy Oak seat cover... but he's asking a bit much for that old of a Cummins.

My preference is of course for Eurotrash cars, but lets not kid ourselves they all brake down. If they didn't then you wouldn't have any mechanics for any of the brands. There isn't a single brand out there that does not have some issues.

I personally just like the issue associated with German cars over Domestic and Asian.
I agree! I have only had a few issues with my BMW, one was a fuel pump (costly, but hey, they go out), the other my CV boots were torn (not that costly thanks to RockAuto). Other than that, it runs great, has over 80K on it, and gives me everything I want in a car- except ground clearance, but for that I have a Dodge Ram. [Beer]

soldier-of-the-apocalypse

01-22-2013, 14:42

That's a sweet truck! You know the guy who is selling it is redneck as hell, he's got a Mossy Oak seatbelt pad and a Mossy Oak seat cover... but he's asking a bit much for that old of a Cummins.

I agree! I have only had a few issues with my BMW, one was a fuel pump (costly, but hey, they go out), the other my CV boots were torn (not that costly thanks to RockAuto). Other than that, it runs great, has over 80K on it, and gives me everything I want in a car- except ground clearance, but for that I have a Dodge Ram. [Beer]

that is actually not a bad price for that truck, there is a huge following and love for those trucks including myself, and the value has shot way up in the last few years. I got mine 6 years ago for $2800 and its probly worth 5 to 6k now. Now almost everybody in my family has a cummins 12valve after they seen what mine could do. first gens are kinda like the 69 camaro or the 70 cuda of the diesel world everybody wants one so they can have a little diesel hotrod

Ronin13

01-22-2013, 14:57

that is actually not a bad price for that truck, there is a huge following and love for those trucks including myself, and the value has shot way up in the last few years. I got mine 6 years ago for $2800 and its probly worth 5 to 6k now. Now almost everybody in my family has a cummins 12valve after they seen what mine could do. first gens are kinda like the 69 camaro or the 70 cuda of the diesel world everybody wants one so they can have a little diesel hotrod
True, but I was thinking maybe $6500 for it, not practically $9K... My buddy bought a 1998 2500 Cummins last year for $10,000... but he bought it from an older gent that rarely drove it, so it had low miles.

soldier-of-the-apocalypse

01-22-2013, 15:17

In 98 they had a 12v and it was the best 12v made because it had 235 hp instead of 180hp rated and it had the updated interior with rear doors and it is very rare truck since its half year only my dad bought one like 3 years ago for 10k and with the upgrades he did it should be worth 17k today. But 1998 was also the first year of the 24v and they are known to be problematic and there is alot of them so the value is not as great so if your buddy got a 98 12v he got a good deal but if he got a 24v he probly paid a little too much IMO. the 24v is ok if you do some upgrades though the liftpump has to be replaced with a air dog or a fass fuel pump and the trannys have problems standard and auto

buckeye4rnr

01-22-2013, 15:29

If we're talking only about cars I would only buy American if I were buying a Ford. Unfortunately the Explorer doesn't compare well to the 4Runner so it's not even on my radar but if that Ford Atlas concept becomes reality I would be real happy to buy a pickup and that would be the only one to consider.

Anything besides cars, I do my best to buy American and I'm fine with paying a little more to do it. GoRuck bags are the absolute shit and they've got a brand and quality I'm happy to support.

Ghosty

01-22-2013, 15:40

What have you read/heard about the new Explorer? Yes, that Atlas concept is badass.

buckeye4rnr

01-22-2013, 15:56

The newest Explorer is much more of a crossover while the 4Runner is a body on frame SUV.

The Explorer compares a lot better to a Highlander. It's a nice ride but not what I'm in the market for.

soldier-of-the-apocalypse

01-22-2013, 17:50

You don't like the raptor or the dodge ridge runner if you get a Toyota make sure you get the turd package

buckeye4rnr

01-22-2013, 19:06

You don't like the raptor or the dodge ridge runner if you get a Toyota make sure you get the turd package

Hate the Dodge and I would never want the raptor to be my daily driver.

Madeinhb

01-22-2013, 19:09

I had a Chevy for 5 years. On my engine it said Parts Made in America, Assembled in Mexico. So I have no loyalty to car companies anyone since a machine makes the parts, then shipped else where to be assembled.

cofi

01-22-2013, 19:52

optimas are hencho en mexico and totally crap now

centrarchidae

01-22-2013, 21:12

My Toyotas and my Suzuki bike run. Period.

My Chevrolets never did worth a damn.

Besides, I boycott anything that says UAW.

10mm-man

01-22-2013, 21:31

I will buy American no matter what!! Pathetic excuses (to buy foreign) is all I see!! Even if the car is a pig.......... I don't care. AMERICAN it is! I will buy two American cars to every 1 of your foreign [fag] jobs GLADLY and will gladly put in twice the gas too!!

But then again I love every thing AMERICAN!!

10mm-man

01-22-2013, 21:32

Hate the Dodge and I would never want the raptor to be my daily driver.

Can't wait to "DAILY DRIVE" the Raptor......

sellersm

01-22-2013, 21:40

Gotta love NAFTA...

Haroldlutsen

01-22-2013, 21:47

I will buy American no matter what, pathetic excuses (to buy foreign) is all I see!! Even if the car is a pig.......... I don't care. AMERICAN it is! I will buy two American cars to every 1 of your foreign [fag] jobs GLADLY and will gladly put in twice the gas too!!

But then again I love every thing AMERICAN!!

Way to go I like your attitude at one point I had a 460 ford a hemi jeep a 4.6 v8 crown Vic and a 403 trans am all American v8 power at the same time 20017

10mm-man

01-22-2013, 21:52

Way to go I like your attitude at one point I had a 460 ford a hemi jeep a 4.6 v8 crown Vic and a 403 trans am all American v8 power at the same time 20017

I love the T.A.! Split t-tops were the shit! I had a girlfriend in N.C that used to drive one around, with a sawed off shotty under the seat, crazy chick! That 460 is a BEAST! I had the 1994 T.A., Numerous F-150's, Chevy's, Dodge, can't beat American HORSE POWER!

Gman

01-22-2013, 23:04

I've been a Chevy guy forever. I looked at the products they were making and had to pass. I looked around at other US manufacturers and didn't like what I saw for the money.

I ended up getting a 2012 Hyundai Azera and it's the nicest car I've ever owned.
http://www.billdodgeautogroup.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/azera-maine.jpg
293 HP V6 and got over 30mpg on a trip from WA state to CO via Montana.

Irving

01-22-2013, 23:15

What is the direct benefit of buying American vehicles?
Specifically, who exactly do you imagine you are benefiting by purchasing American?

tmleadr03

01-22-2013, 23:17

What is the direct benefit of buying American vehicles?
Specifically, who exactly do you imagine you are benefiting by purchasing American?

Applicable word.

BigDee

01-22-2013, 23:20

Simple answer. No.

You should always buy the best of something that you can afford and not pay much attention to where it is made. I was always raised to buy the cheapest product available, needless to say I like my parents was always replacing shit. Several years ago I met a very wise man and the first lesson he taught me was "Poor people can not afford to buy cheap stuff." I've never forgot those words and in keeping to them I've found that my money goes a whole lot further these days.

Irving

01-22-2013, 23:29

I guess what I'm getting at is that when you are purchasing a product, the value you get for your money should be the primary concern. If money going to "America" is the most important thing, then skip all the bullshit and start stroking off checks to the US government. Whether your dollars go to company CEO A or company CEO B, probably has less of an effect on "America" than you imagine that it does.

For the record, I prefer to buy American products when they are the best that I can afford. I am also a recent subscriber to buy once, cry once, and don't always follow that creed as much as I should. I don't like to buy Chinese because a lot of the products I personally have experience from China are made cheaply and fall apart (shoes).

10mm-man

01-22-2013, 23:33

Specifically, who exactly do you imagine you are benefiting by purchasing American?

I am AMERICAN buddy! It's all about ME! So I would be benefiting me! Riding around in my AMERICAN made car, pissing off all the tree loving, earth saving, foreign car loven [fags]...... [Beer]

Irving

01-22-2013, 23:40

I am AMERICAN buddy! It's all about ME! So I would be benefiting me! Riding around in my AMERICAN made car, pissing off all the tree loving, earth saving, foreign car loven [fags]...... [Beer]

I think you're mostly being sarcastic, but in case you aren't, I asked because I'm curious who is actually benefited by buying American. I'm also curious who people think they are helping.
For example, I doubt buying American improves roads, lowers gas prices, or increases education. I'm sure an argument could be made that it increases the value of the dollar in some way. Otherwise, giving money to a company, is not the same as giving money to a country. If people are mostly concerned with helping an American keep a job, that is fine, but the origin country of the company doesn't matter as long as an American employee is involved.

To be clear, it doesn't matter if profits go to a company in China or a company in the US, because you can't control where those people or companies spend that money anyway. What good does it to buy Ford, if all the Ford CEOs are spending their money on BMW's?

It's not a clear cut issue, which is my point.

10mm-man

01-22-2013, 23:44

I think you're mostly being sarcastic, but in case you aren't, I asked because I'm curious who is actually benefited by buying American. I'm also curious who people think they are helping.
For example, I doubt buying American improves roads, lowers gas prices, or increases education. I'm sure an argument could be made that it increases the value of the dollar in some way. Otherwise, giving money to a company, is not the same as giving money to a country. If people are mostly concerned with helping an American keep a job, that is fine, but the origin country of the company doesn't matter as long as an American employee is involved.

To be clear, it doesn't matter if profits go to a company in China or a company in the US, because you can't control where those people or companies spend that money anyway. What good does it to buy Ford, if all the Ford CEOs are spending their money on BMW's?

It's not a clear cut issue, which is my point.

No sarcasm.... I am going to bed, this is a bigger discussion issue than I want to get into.......... More $$$ spent on American soil, kept on American soil is good for AMERICA! Prove me wrong!

Edit: Some sarcasm.....

Irving

01-22-2013, 23:50

Prove that the money is kept on American soil.

Your statement is 100% correct, as long as the product you are buying is worth the money you are spending on it, and you aren't just buying American to buy American. Subsidizing American companies just because of where they were started is a detriment to America as a whole if doing so does not encourage the company to be competitive in the market.

10mm-man

01-22-2013, 23:54

zteknik

01-23-2013, 00:01

I'll probably get flamed for it but it's just my oppinion.
I use to whole heartedly just buy American,everything(Even American kielbasi!)
But through the years even when the qualit of American made stuff was going down hill I still stuck to All American.
Now that I'm a bit older and learned a bit more I dont.

Not that the fact it's American,the fact that half the stuff suposedly made here realy isn't and most the profit on such said goods never STAY in America.It just goes to the so called American companies that rei nvest overseas.
I also seen first hand some of the stuff made here with materials that came from overseas put together by ILLEGAL IMIGRANT WORKERS....
My faith in the so called "American " product has been lost..

I would love nothing more to still be able to buy a trully Amarican made product.
I do when I absolutley know it is like localy made products ,but that's far and few between.
Hopefully once again we might be able to do it,but I dont see it in my lifetime..

sellersm

01-23-2013, 00:05

One product that's supposedly 100% American is Diamond Gusset Jeans! They're the only jeans I buy... But, as I said before, gotta love NAFTA. It's almost impossible to trace the $$$ trail anymore. GE is a case in point...

NitroxBoss

01-23-2013, 00:06

I'll never buy another "new" GM product ever again. And it has nothing to do with "quality".

Amen! Thieves!

soldier-of-the-apocalypse

01-23-2013, 01:15

You guys should stop thinking about big business and think about all the local small business you could support. In my opinion that is where buying American really matters not just you once every ten year purchase but your every day purchases should be more localized. If you rather save 10 or 15 percent at Walmart then maybe helping that mom and pop shop that has been there for 30 years make it to the end of the month , that's fine but you damn sure aren't helping your country and more importantly your comunity.

nisils14

01-23-2013, 04:08

When it comes to cars, there's no such as buying American. Just based on the fact alone that car companies crossover so many parts it's probably not even funny. People will naturally want a quality product, whether or not, that company is American or foreign. When a company has a reputation of offering quality products, most people are willing to pay the price. The only thing I can think of you could probably stay strictly American is booze.

hghclsswhitetrsh

01-23-2013, 07:44

Yes.

TS12000

01-23-2013, 08:49

Based on basic economic principles I'm definitely not buying something of lower quality, that was assembled MAYBE here, by illegals and wage pumping unionists, from a company that had to be kept on life support with my tax dollars, just because MURRICA DAMMIT! Fuck that noise, those companies deserved to go under and even though I know most (all?) paid that money back its an indication that they run a very shakey business in the first place.

Ronin13

01-23-2013, 11:31

Prove me wrong!
Challenge accepted!
I present to the prosecution Exhibit G: purchasing a USED car does absolutely nothing for the original manufacturer, they already got their money from the initial purchase, so technically your money goes to whoever is selling it (be it private party, dealership, etc.). So by my buying, as you put it, faggy Euro car used, I actually didn't put any money into the coffers of the BMW GmbH.... [Beer] But that was not by design, I don't like the look of '06-Present 3-Series nearly as much as the '03-'05 models, and I have never bought any car new, someday maybe.

U81I812

01-23-2013, 11:52

Chrysler is owned by a company in Spain called Fiat
GM is owned by some dictactor from Kenyon
I believe Ford is the only American auto maker left...

funkymonkey1111

01-23-2013, 11:55

Chrysler is owned by a company in Spain called Fiat
GM is owned by some dictactor from Kenyon
I believe Ford is the only American auto maker left...

Fiat is from Italy. However, it's immaterial to some here as long as one of their product line says "Jeep" and is made by a union member--hell, then it's as American as apple pie! Even one of those chinese jeeps is America--it says Jeep, right?