Guy in Fort Collins Open Carries rifle at Walmart.

[HBARleatherneck]

9news link to the story.
http://www.9news.com/news/article/312179/188/Rifle-carrying-teen-sparks-concern-at-Walmart

[Dave_L]

He should have called the police ahead of time. It just makes it better for everyone when trying a publicity stunt.

[Wulf202]

If anyone knows this guy ill give him a Ccw class for free. So that when he's 21 this isn't necessary

[jtav]

I know it's legal and all but really don't think this helps the cause.

[Dingo]

He's not the first to try it in recent months. Personally, I don't think there's anything courageous about it - the guy's naive and ignorant at best, and an attention-craving douchebag at worst. We want non-gun people to respect our rights to own and bear arms, and yet it's ok to deliberately antagonize the situation, despite knowing their reservations? That's the entire point of concealed carry - the ability to be armed discreetly. If it was a rural community where more people openly carried, nobody would think anything of it. But going into a mixed-reception area like a college town Walmart, and ramming the gun thing down everybody's throats... I'm leaning toward him just being a douchebag. I can respect somebody else's beliefs that they don't want to own a gun, and are nervous about/around them, as long as they're not infringing on my rights therein. And vice versa - while I'm armed 100% of the time, I don't shove it in everybody's face. While we may have a right to open carry, it doesn't mean it's always a good idea. While not quite as openly offensive, this reminds me of a person claiming they're exercising their right to free speech and peaceful assembly by picketing military funerals...

[Special Ed]

^^This

[Tinelement]

Well said dingo!

[BuffCyclist]

Okay, two lines of thought here:

First, this guy is 19yo and the other thread about the first guy doing this (and calling cops to inform them first) was 22yo. I think if they were older, in their 40s, it might make a bigger difference in getting their message across. Especially since a majority of the massacres (in fact, nearly all that I can remember) are done at the hands of teens to 25yo's. So naturally, the demographic is young kids carrying rifles into places and shooting. Did these guys NOT think that they'd alarm people?

On the other hand, imagine how the public and government would react if we got just 50%, heck even just 25%, of gun owners to start carrying RIFLES openly. Sure, National Gun Appreciation day seems to have made a public point and was a nice gathering with speakers, but I'm sure not everyone could be there for work or other reasons. But if, say, for the month of February, we got thousands of gun owners to carry their rifles everywhere with them, it would cause widespread panic. People would turn every corner and see a rifle, then call the cops to report it. The cops would be inundated with calls and surely would be required to issue a public statement that what these gun owners are doing is perfectly legal. This also might make politicians realize that we, as gun owners, are NOT willing to back down on our God given rights to defend ourselves, and what our natural born rights as United States of America citizens are given by the Bill of Rights.

The first thread on this subject, I had mixed feelings, saying that I wouldn't do it myself. But if I knew there were hundreds of thousands of other gun owners carrying their rifles openly, I'd be very willing to do it.

Let's do it like the LGBT's did, openly shove it in your face until you're willing to accept it as normal, and don't back down until EVERY tv show has a gun in it! Cause, you know, all tv shows now have at least one gay person in them... [Peep]

[newracer]

I would be all for that as long as we can get the hot women to carry rifles like they do in Israel. They are not scary.

[CrufflerSteve]

The open carry people are gun rights activists. I sort of support them but wouldn't do it. It can lead to hostile encounters with LEO's and arrest. I respect what they do but I'm not so sure of it as a good tactic.

I tend to agree with Fred here that we're fracturing into two countries with two opposing world views. http://www.fredoneverything.net/Severus.shtml

The open carry people push the button of the other country. That's both good and bad.

[BuffCyclist]

I would be all for that as long as we can get the hot women to carry rifles like they do in Israel. They are not scary.

Okay, now we're talkin!

I'll talk to my Fiancee and have her carry my M&P15T. Thats two, anybody else in?

[Ronin13]

I see the points everyone is making about this being dumb or not well thought out, however, I'll present a counter-point... How is this hurting "the cause"? It's already been hurt beyond repair. I was not alive for it, but there once was a time where walking around with a rifle on your shoulder was no big deal. People weren't afraid of guns back when, and now the new paradigm is that we must fear guns and anytime a gun is spotted call the police! It's a disgrace! So it's stupid to exercise your rights? What if I were to walk around with a "Fuck Barrack" tee shirt? Would anyone call the cops because I'm exercising my 1st Amendment right? Doubtful. We need to help to educate, inform, and make it normal for guns to be seen in public where it's perfectly legal. Yes, this kid is drawing unwanted or unwarranted attention to himself, but I think if more did this eventually it would become normal to see guns, of course that would take a while... But it's a step in the right direction. I applaud this young man for exercising his rights and proving that armed, law abiding individuals don't just run around maniacally killing others.

[Dingo]

Ronin, I see your point, but I think it comes down to an issue of respect. Would I love it if the 80 million gun owners could congeal as a collective and start openly carrying? Sure. I'd jump in with both feet and stride proudly around town with my AK slung over my shoulder. But we do live in a very polarized, split society right now. A good 50% of the populace still feels threatened by guns and open displays like that. Just because the gays/illegals/liberals/assorted minorities are attempting to ram their beliefs down our throat, doesn't make it ok for us to do the same. As Americans who believe in the principles we were founded on, it's about being on the more mature, upright side of things. Until things disintegrate to the event horizon of open revolution, I still intend to at least attempt to be respectful of non-gun-owners beliefs, no matter how much I disagree with or oppose them.

[Ronin13]

Ronin, I see your point, but I think it comes down to an issue of respect. Would I love it if the 80 million gun owners could congeal as a collective and start openly carrying? Sure. I'd jump in with both feet and stride proudly around town with my AK slung over my shoulder. But we do live in a very polarized, split society right now. A good 50% of the populace still feels threatened by guns and open displays like that. Just because the gays/illegals/liberals/assorted minorities are attempting to ram their beliefs down our throat, doesn't make it ok for us to do the same. As Americans who believe in the principles we were founded on, it's about being on the more mature, upright side of things. Until things disintegrate to the event horizon of open revolution, I still intend to at least attempt to be respectful of non-gun-owners beliefs, no matter how much I disagree with or oppose them.
I agree, but it's not ramming anything down anyone's throat carrying a firearm openly. I see the "gay agenda" proudly displayed EVERYWHERE and that I consider being rammed down our throats... a few guys carrying a gun legally is not pushing or being disrespectful... of course that's my opinion, I could be wrong.

[MCarp71]

He's not the first to try it in recent months. Personally, I don't think there's anything courageous about it - the guy's naive and ignorant at best, and an attention-craving douchebag at worst. We want non-gun people to respect our rights to own and bear arms, and yet it's ok to deliberately antagonize the situation, despite knowing their reservations? That's the entire point of concealed carry - the ability to be armed discreetly. If it was a rural community where more people openly carried, nobody would think anything of it. But going into a mixed-reception area like a college town Walmart, and ramming the gun thing down everybody's throats... I'm leaning toward him just being a douchebag. I can respect somebody else's beliefs that they don't want to own a gun, and are nervous about/around them, as long as they're not infringing on my rights therein. And vice versa - while I'm armed 100% of the time, I don't shove it in everybody's face. While we may have a right to open carry, it doesn't mean it's always a good idea. While not quite as openly offensive, this reminds me of a person claiming they're exercising their right to free speech and peaceful assembly by picketing military funerals...


Amen!

[Rucker61]

I agree, but it's not ramming anything down anyone's throat carrying a firearm openly. I see the "gay agenda" proudly displayed EVERYWHERE and that I consider being rammed down our throats... a few guys carrying a gun legally is not pushing or being disrespectful... of course that's my opinion, I could be wrong.


I don't see that as fair comparison. A rainbow sticker is the same as an NRA sticker on your window. The "gay agenda" version of open carrying a rifle in Walmart would be walking around Target wearing only assless chaps and a leather policeman's hat.

[Dave_L]

I don't see that as fair comparison. A rainbow sticker is the same as an NRA sticker on your window. The "gay agenda" version of open carrying a rifle in Walmart would be walking around Target wearing only assless chaps and a leather policeman's hat.

Or going to Chick-fil-a and demonstrating?

[Rucker61]

Or going to Chick-fil-a and demonstrating?


Good example, assuming you're referring to PDA.

[Dave_L]

Good example, assuming you're referring to PDA.

Correct. I'm just becoming jaded to all of this. I'm expected to be tolerant of everything except my right to open carry?

[Dingo]

Ass-less chaps... AGREED. And thanks for the nasty visual. lol.

[Ronin13]

I don't see that as fair comparison. A rainbow sticker is the same as an NRA sticker on your window. The "gay agenda" version of open carrying a rifle in Walmart would be walking around Target wearing only assless chaps and a leather policeman's hat.
Except the fact that it's invading every single TV show out there... Next Nat Geo is going to have a show called "Gay Cops" or something... I'm kind of tired of it. I don't want to see the gay culture everywhere.

[Dingo]

They can get married and parade around all day for all I give a shit. What they do is between them and God. As long as they keep their cum-encrusted fingers off of my guns and the rights thereof.

[Rucker61]

Except the fact that it's invading every single TV show out there... Next Nat Geo is going to have a show called "Gay Cops" or something... I'm kind of tired of it. I don't want to see the gay culture everywhere.

You just get one channel?

[Ghosty]

+1 what Dingo said. Yes, the gun-owning portion of society are semi-fine with it, but I doubt there are very many non-gun-owning moms with children there who appreciate this kind of behavior in their face, just shopping for groceries. It's about common sense, not the attitude "hey it's legal, so I'll do whatever I wish".

Same principal as publishing a "convenient" map and list of gun owners in NewYork or on Gawker.com. SURE IT'S LEGAL, BUT should you really do it? Is it honorable? Is it benefitting the public good?! Is it harming anyone? Yeah, actually it might be harming those owners, making them targets for thieves!

Common sense and logic, use it, think BEYOND two dimensions. Same advice for the douchebag principals and teachers suspending children for toys and paper guns.

[Dingo]

It's kind of like the arrangement I have with my parents. I love and respect my dad, but he's always been uncomfortable around guns. When the family and I go over to their house, I don't advertise my carry piece and keep it discreetly concealed at all times, even though it can get uncomfortable after a few hours at the dinner table. He knows I'm carrying but doesn't ask me not to, I know he doesn't like guns so I don't show it off. We've both adopted a respectful attitude about it.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Legal? Check.
Attention-grabbing? Check.
Stupid? Check.
Counterproductive? Check.

Maybe we can get him on that MTV program ...

[sellersm]

It's kind of like the arrangement I have with my parents. I love and respect my dad, but he's always been uncomfortable around guns. When the family and I go over to their house, I don't advertise my carry piece and keep it discreetly concealed at all times, even though it can get uncomfortable after a few hours at the dinner table. He knows I'm carrying, I know he doesn't like guns, but we both respect each other.

NO. it's NOT like that at all. The anti-gunners aren't like your Dad. They have ZERO respect for you as a gun owner. They're working tirelessly and diligently to TAKE AWAY your rights, not just of gun ownership, but of liberty & freedoms. There's a huge difference between your father and those anti-gunners.

I'm siding with Ronin here, and standing by what I've said in the past: our rights are rights. Period. If my right makes others uncomfortable, especially because they've been brainwashed, so be it. Guns are not to be feared.

What part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED do you all not get? Enjoy your false sense of security and your compromise with the brainwashed masses. It won't end well.

[Ronin13]

You just get one channel?
No, but it would seem to me that Nat Geo and the Military Channel are the only ones I can stand anymore because they're not like NBC/CBS/Fox/ABC/anything else that constantly displays shows about the "we're here, we're queer" culture 9 out of 10 minutes of every show. I have no problem with gays, I'm just tired of seeing it ALL THE DAMN TIME. Hell, last night at the Rodeo, the clown kept acting like he was light in the loafers, almost the entire time! Okay, it was funny for the first 3 minutes, now it's just annoying.

I'm siding with Ronin here, and standing by what I've said in the past: our rights are rights. Period. If my right makes others uncomfortable, especially because they've been brainwashed, so be it. Guns are not to be feared.

What part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED do you all not get? Enjoy your false sense of security and your compromise with the brainwashed masses. It won't end well.
YES! Hippies and their World Peace BS make me uncomfortable, but I buck up and deal with it and don't infringe upon their rights. [Beer]

[james_bond_007]

It almost seems to "taunt" the law.
Yes, it is legal, but is seems to , in a way, be saying
"Hey, I found a loophole. Maybe you should pass some more laws to close it."

[Dingo]

NO. it's NOT like that at all. The anti-gunners aren't like your Dad. They have ZERO respect for you as a gun owner. They're working tirelessly and diligently to TAKE AWAY your rights, not just of gun ownership, but of liberty & freedoms. There's a huge difference between your father and those anti-gunners.

I'm siding with Ronin here, and standing by what I've said in the past: our rights are rights. Period. If my right makes others uncomfortable, especially because they've been brainwashed, so be it. Guns are not to be feared.

What part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED do you all not get? Enjoy your false sense of security and your compromise with the brainwashed masses. It won't end well.

Ah, there's that good ol' hostility I knew had to be inbound eventually. I view the general populace who is uncomfortable with guns, drastically differently than the traitorous politicians deliberately trying to disarm me as part of their larger totalitarian agenda. I don't view Joe Q Wal-mart Patron who's afraid of guns as the enemy. They vote for questionable people because they're ignorant and largely brought up by the engineered culture on TV. The govt is an entirely different story - I believe their attempt to disarm is a malicious, illegal, and carefully calculated attack.

One further consideration... I would honestly be uncomfortable if somebody was walking around with a loaded rifle in the grocery store, and I'm as vehemently pro-gun as you'll ever find. Would I call the cops on the guy? No. But I would be taken into a hyper-vigilant state that I don't care for, and would probably try to get my family out of the immediate area. "Guy carrying gun" does not automatically equate with "common-sense gun-owner". Aside from the confrontational attitude already implied by doing it in the first place, how do I know what this guy's safety ethics are? I see long time "gun people" doing stupid shit all the time, like sweeping buddies with loaded guns while talking, standing around with fingers on the trigger etc. At least by having it concealed, there's a slightly higher implied level of awareness, and the bonus is that it doesn't raise anybody's blood pressure.

Because society at large does not open carry firearms, and with everybody in a panic-mode after all of the recent mass-shootings, I still think it's disrespectful to freak people out like that. Regardless of what my rights are. Forgetting that it's legal, is it fair to immediately make everyone in the store wonder if they're going to be cowering for cover when he opens fire? People don't think 2nd Amendment when they see something like that, they think about what they've seen on the news recently. Parents worry about their kids, people get scared, and it's disrespectful, arrogant, and belligerent to infringe on THEIR right to buy some fucking groceries without worrying about being shot.

Ultimately it comes down to this:

Do I think that kid had a right to carry the rifle in Walmart that should "not be infringed" upon? Yes.
Do I think he's an asshole for exercising that right inappropriately in a confrontational manner, for attention-seeking reasons? Yes.

[ben4372]

Ass-less chaps... AGREED. And thanks for the nasty visual. lol.
aren't all chaps "ass-less"?

[budda]

Okay, two lines of thought here:

First, this guy is 19yo and the other thread about the first guy doing this (and calling cops to inform them first) was 22yo. I think if they were older, in their 40s, it might make a bigger difference in getting their message across. Especially since a majority of the massacres (in fact, nearly all that I can remember) are done at the hands of teens to 25yo's. So naturally, the demographic is young kids carrying rifles into places and shooting. Did these guys NOT think that they'd alarm people?

On the other hand, imagine how the public and government would react if we got just 50%, heck even just 25%, of gun owners to start carrying RIFLES openly. Sure, National Gun Appreciation day seems to have made a public point and was a nice gathering with speakers, but I'm sure not everyone could be there for work or other reasons. But if, say, for the month of February, we got thousands of gun owners to carry their rifles everywhere with them, it would cause widespread panic. People would turn every corner and see a rifle, then call the cops to report it. The cops would be inundated with calls and surely would be required to issue a public statement that what these gun owners are doing is perfectly legal. This also might make politicians realize that we, as gun owners, are NOT willing to back down on our God given rights to defend ourselves, and what our natural born rights as United States of America citizens are given by the Bill of Rights.

The first thread on this subject, I had mixed feelings, saying that I wouldn't do it myself. But if I knew there were hundreds of thousands of other gun owners carrying their rifles openly, I'd be very willing to do it.

Let's do it like the LGBT's did, openly shove it in your face until you're willing to accept it as normal, and don't back down until EVERY tv show has a gun in it! Cause, you know, all tv shows now have at least one gay person in them... [Peep]

I agreel with this. Why hide what we believe in? It does not help the cause of protecting our rights if we don't show that there is more than just a few. I agree with the LGBT statement, guns are now looked apon the same as gay were once looked apon. Not right and taboo!

[asmo]

I see the points everyone is making about this being dumb or not well thought out, however, I'll present a counter-point... How is this hurting "the cause"? It's already been hurt beyond repair

You're right.. The cause is hurt beyond repair and we can never 'win'. We should give up now. Where should I turn my stuff in at?

Little victories add up over time. When you're older you will realize this. ;)

[Ronin13]

I would honestly be uncomfortable if somebody was walking around with a loaded rifle in the grocery store, and I'm as vehemently pro-gun as you'll ever find. Would I call the cops on the guy? No. But I would be taken into a hyper-vigilant state that I don't care for, and would probably try to get my family out of the immediate area. "Guy carrying gun" does not automatically equate with "common-sense gun-owner". Aside from the confrontational attitude already implied by doing it in the first place, how do I know what this guy's safety ethics are? I see long time "gun people" doing stupid shit all the time, like sweeping buddies with loaded guns while talking, standing around with fingers on the trigger etc. At least by having it concealed, there's a slightly higher implied level of awareness, and the bonus is that it doesn't raise anybody's blood pressure.

Ultimately it comes down to this:

Do I think that kid had a right to carry the rifle in Walmart that should "not be infringed" upon? Yes.
Do I think he's an asshole for exercising that right inappropriately in a confrontational manner, for attention-seeking reasons? Yes.
I really hate to be "that guy" but if I don't say it, who will? You are part of the problem. Just my honest assessment of this comment, not being hostile or anything. You may be pro-2A, you may be a good, responsible gun owner, hell, you may even make a good candidate for the NRA board... but by saying you're uncomfortable with a person carrying a gun in public, wanting to "move your family out of the immediate area" and calling this action "attention whore" type of action makes you, in my eyes, no different than the average sheep who do not understand the sheep dogs among them, thus they fear us. Granted, my experience is slightly skewed, because I spent an entire year of my life among people walking around with loaded rifles... We had 1 ND in a 12-month period... I'd say that's pretty good.

Ultimately it comes down to this:
Educate the masses that guns are not to be feared, and gun owners are not crazy- if we continually did this through the responsible exercise of our rights eventually we could shift the mentality that we currently have in our society.
Exercise your rights. Stand up and defend your rights. Now is not the time to criticize and call fellow gun owners assholes. It's the guy who carries a gun and has a incident of negligence that we call assholes, or the guy who carries irresponsibly. Not the one doing absolutely nothing wrong. [Beer]

You're right.. The cause is hurt beyond repair and we can never 'win'. We should give up now. Where should I turn my stuff in at?

Little victories add up over time. When you're older you will realize this. ;)
I should have worded that differently- our cause has been tarnished and it's an uphill battle to turn that around.

[Uberjager]

I liked the points brought up about the demographics. I can almost guarantee you that an older gentlemen in a French-cuff dress shirt, nice slacks, and upper end loafers (et cetera) wouldn't cause a fuss at all, if he was open carrying a holstered double action revolver. Open carry really isn't my thing, but I applaud those who do it in taste.

[Rucker61]

Educate the masses that guns are not to be feared, and gun owners are not crazy



Some gun owners are crazy and negligent.

[sellersm]

I think that an event like this points out the great discrepancy between the anti-2A's efforts and the pro-2A's efforts! Where are the PRO gun messages? Where's the NRA, GOA, RMGO, etc.'s "propaganda" campaigns to make the public less afraid of guns? If we were all born 100 years ago or more, we'd NOT be having this conversation! Guns aren't to be feared. If they're really that bad, how'd we survive as people for this long?

I'm not happy, obviously, with the pro-2A's efforts to counter the tide of brainwashing that the anti's have been doing so effectively? Outside of influencing one or two people at a time, what can we do to help turn the tide of 'public opinion' that "guns are evil and should never be seen in public"?

[Dingo]

Ronin:

No offense taken, you're entitled to your view. I think my view on this is more the context, than the actual act. I live in Castle Rock, and frequently see guys in suits walking around with something strapped to their hip. Honestly never gave a second glance. Perfect example: My wife and I were in Chile's a few weeks ago, and saw a large group of salespeople of some sort come in for lunch. Three of the guys were carrying. I never thought twice about it, gave a "good for you" nod when eye contact was made, and felt safer for having more guns in the building. It's all about context. For example - I wouldn't feel out of place at all getting gas with a pistol on my hip, or having dinner at Village Inn, etc etc. I'm just saying it makes sense to be aware of the situation around you, and be respectful accordingly. This is a teenager walking into a large crowded area with a rifle.

Imagine walking into a theatre with a rifle... if the theatre hasn't specifically banned it, then sure - it's your right. But would anybody in their right mind do that today?

[Byte Stryke]

I Agree completely, we should concede the right to OC entirely and skulk around in the shadows.
Making something Commonplace has NEVER Work for desensitization.

[facepalm]

[Ronin13]

Some gun owners are crazy and negligent.
So? Some cops let their badge go to their head. Some firefighters have an over inflated ego. Some democrats are staunch supporters of communism. These are minorities that people allow to tarnish the image of an entirety. This is what's wrong with our country. This needs to change.

[Eggysrun]

Poor judgement on the kids behalf. There's a time and place to open carry and particularly what you are carrying. Scaring the public like that isn't going to help the cause regardless if said person was within exercising his/her rights.

[Demodave]

You know, when I was growing up outside of Chicago a LONG time ago, we used to carry rifles from our homes into the woods, and nobody cared. It was considered normal. Later when I was in HS and College in WI, we had 30/30's hanging in the back of our Pickup truck windows, IN THE SCHOOL's Parking lot!

WTF

Responsible people are safe with Guns

Get a grip.

The kid has EVERY right to carry openly.

Quit being pussified by our culture.

OPEN carry is legal in this State.

If you don't like it, move back to CA

Would you feel safer in a gun free zone????

[Gman]

Word to the Founders. The truth of the matter is in my sig.

[tmckay2]

why are people so stupid?

[tmckay2]

you can validate it in any way you see fit, no one here is going to argue it was his right, but for those of us in reality the truth of the matter is we are this close to losing a lot of our rights as it pertains to firearms. doing things like this, which everyone and their brother knows is for publicity and to show you can do it, only furthers the agenda of our enemies. fact is, the majority of non-gun owners aren't anti gun loons, but they won't understand a stunt like this and it will turn them further against us. we need their support to keep the rights the nuts want to take. you don't have to like it, i sure as hell don't, but thats the truth. we need everyone to be exercising common sense at a time like this.


You know, when I was growing up outside of Chicago a LONG time ago, we used to carry rifles from our homes into the woods, and nobody cared. It was considered normal. Later when I was in HS and College in WI, we had 30/30's hanging in the back of our Pickup truck windows, IN THE SCHOOL's Parking lot!

WTF

Responsible people are safe with Guns

Get a grip.

The kid has EVERY right to carry openly.

Quit being pussified by our culture.

OPEN carry is legal in this State.

If you don't like it, move back to CA

Would you feel safer in a gun free zone????

[sellersm]

I think that an event like this points out the great discrepancy between the anti-2A's efforts and the pro-2A's efforts! Where are the PRO gun messages? Where's the NRA, GOA, RMGO, etc.'s "propaganda" campaigns to make the public less afraid of guns? If we were all born 100 years ago or more, we'd NOT be having this conversation! Guns aren't to be feared. If they're really that bad, how'd we survive as people for this long?

I'm not happy, obviously, with the pro-2A's efforts to counter the tide of brainwashing that the anti's have been doing so effectively? Outside of influencing one or two people at a time, what can we do to help turn the tide of 'public opinion' that "guns are evil and should never be seen in public"?

So, let's quit picking on the guy, and answer the questions I posed earlier (above)... What are we going to do to begin to turn the tide?

[Gman]

The people that want to disarm us don't need excuses. Don't try to hook any of the game plan they are running to anyone lawfully living their life in what used to be a free country. Don't be in here yelling that "she asked to be raped because of the clothes she was wearing" crap.

[Ronin13]

The people that want to disarm us don't need excuses. Don't try to hook any of the game plan they are running to anyone lawfully living their life in what used to be a free country. Don't be in here yelling that "she asked to be raped because of the clothes she was wearing" crap.
Exactly! The CDC and FBI both presented evidence that in 2004 the world didn't start burning because of the expiration of the AWB. FBI stats prove that areas with strict gun control laws have higher crime rates. Feinstein and gang saw these figures, they don't give a shit, none of the hardline anti-gun crowd gives a shit.

[Rucker61]

Exactly! The CDC and FBI both presented evidence that in 2004 the world didn't start burning because of the expiration of the AWB. FBI stats prove that areas with strict gun control laws have higher crime rates. Feinstein and gang saw these figures, they don't give a shit, none of the hardline anti-gun crowd gives a shit.

If the anti's are anti's because they're afraid of guns, what's the best way to make them unafraid of guns?

[Ronin13]

If the anti's are anti's because they're afraid of guns, what's the best way to make them unafraid of guns?
They're not afraid of guns... Feinswine is a gun owner (albeit hypocritical). They don't want you and me to have guns, only them and their cronies and security personnel. Most people who are afraid of guns are only afraid because they're uneducated and don't understand them... Education, getting them into shooting will help.

[Demodave]

you can validate it in any way you see fit, no one here is going to argue it was his right, but for those of us in reality the truth of the matter is we are this close to losing a lot of our rights as it pertains to firearms. doing things like this, which everyone and their brother knows is for publicity and to show you can do it, only furthers the agenda of our enemies. fact is, the majority of non-gun owners aren't anti gun loons, but they won't understand a stunt like this and it will turn them further against us. we need their support to keep the rights the nuts want to take. you don't have to like it, i sure as hell don't, but thats the truth. we need everyone to be exercising common sense at a time like this.

Look, the anti's are out for registration, then confiscation. PERIOD

anything you do, will further their agenda. PERIOD

Tell me what you would rather see, an Armed Society, much like the founding fathers sought, which then becomes a polite society, or a society, which cringes when one of it's own, the kid in this instance, hides it's rights in shame....

I understand your point, but the only way currently to rectify it is to show that we WILL NOT be disarmed....

Food for thought, not a flame war......

[silentshooter]

I will never say a bad thing about a person that open carries. No matter what reason they have for doing it, its a right as a citizen of the US that you can own and carry a firearm concealed or not. Stop tip toeing just to appease the Liberal anti-gun mafia. While I have never open carried a Rifle, I have plenty of times open carried with a handgun.

[NightCat]

I have a great idea.....I should go into walmart with my plate carrier on with my AR slung and Sidearm on my hip!




Said no one ever.

[Demodave]

So, let's quit picking on the guy, and answer the questions I posed earlier (above)... What are we going to do to begin to turn the tide?

Open carry.....

[Ronin13]

I have a great idea.....I should go into walmart with my plate carrier on with my AR slung and Sidearm on my hip!




Said no one ever.
Woah... pump your brakes. Since when is anyone walking around with a plate carrier, AR and sidearm on their person like this is Baghdad? You went a little too far on that one there. This guy just carried his rifle (story didn't specify type, but that is immaterial) into a walmart- he didn't go all GI Joe gung-ho here.

[newracer]

It was probably a .22 or a hunting rifle, if it was an AR or AK or anything even remotely evil looking they would have surly mentioned it.

[Rucker61]

Woah... pump your brakes. Since when is anyone walking around with a plate carrier, AR and sidearm on their person like this is Baghdad? You went a little too far on that one there. This guy just carried his rifle (story didn't specify type, but that is immaterial) into a walmart- he didn't go all GI Joe gung-ho here.

But that's just as okay, right? Just as acceptable and no-one should complain, right?

[BigDee]

Correct if I'm wrong here but it is my understanding that open carry while being legal can still be considered felony menacing.

I was told by an LEO that it is perfectly legal to open carry in the state of Colorado. BUT.. If someone is open carrying and someone else is made to feel intimidated by the person open carrying an over zealous LEO could arrest the person and charge them with felony menacing. The charges would most likely be thrown out by the DA but an LEO could charge the person and arrest them.

[newracer]

You can be arrested for just about anything, whether you are charged or not is entirely different.

[james_bond_007]

But that's just as okay, right? Just as acceptable and no-one should complain, right?

Sometimes it is not what's OK (i.e. legal), but rather what IS or IS NOT the norm.
Seeing someone carry a rifle in Walmat is not the "norm" in the US. I can understand why people would panic and call the police. Legal or not.

I'm sure it would be considered completely normal at the Tehran Walmart.[ROFL1]

When we traveled overseas, my wife freaked out at the airports and train stations when she saw security guards with UZI's. The locals didn't mind because that was their "norm".
Had we seen armed security personnel at O'Hare, DFW, or DIA, many more people would have been alarmed because is is NOT the "norm" in the US.

[Ronin13]

Sometimes it is not what's OK (i.e. legal), but rather what IS or IS NOT the norm.
Seeing someone carry a rifle in Walmat is not the "norm" in the US. I can understand why people would panic and call the police. Legal or not.

I'm sure it would be considered completely normal at the Tehran Walmart.[ROFL1]

When we traveled overseas, my wife freaked out at the airports and train stations when she saw security guards with UZI's. The locals didn't mind because that was their "norm".
Had we seen armed security personnel at O'Hare, DFW, or DIA, many more people would have been alarmed because is is NOT the "norm" in the US.
I will play devil's advocate here and ask why challenging the norm is so frowned upon now? Technically speaking supporting Obama seems to be the "norm," if you define the norm as what the majority of everyone else is doing. What about those of us who challenge the norm? Do you find it just that we are harassed or even arrested for going against the grain, but not violating any law? The norm is to not swear in the presence of children, yet I see it constantly. The norm is to not be loud and obnoxious in movie theaters, yet I see it all the time. Do these people break the law? No. So should I call the cops on them? No. See what I mean? Some norms are wrong and need to be changed.

[Gman]

How many times has the "norm" fallen to civil disobedience where laws in place at the time may have even been violated?

If no laws are being broken...shouldn't we exercise a little civil obedience? [Coffee]

[Gunoholic]

If no laws are being broken...shouldn't we exercise a little civil obedience? [Coffee]

Amen Brother! lol

Ignorance is bliss. Who will teach them? Some are willing to respectfully, maturely open carry. I feel doing this can inform the uninformed. Hopefully we are portraying responsible gun ownership.

[45XD]

I know it's legal and all but really don't think this helps the cause.

+1

What kind of statement is he making?

[USAFGopherMike]

Dingo makes a good point. I support open carry and wish more people would do it. I saw it mentioned earlier but have to ask.. was the rifle loaded? I like others have been to many a country where guns are seen everywhere and it doesn't bother people. Still, I think this kid while well within his rights probably did more to inflame the situation in a liberal town full of college kids that believe everything the leftist media tells them and are of legal voting age. Ronin, I love ya for flying the flag man (in a non-assless chaps kind of way :) ), but there's a better way to support our pro-2A rights and beliefs. There is a time, place, and best practice to turn to the tide. I believe outreach, education and training are key. We need open carry rallys and range days, politicians supporting them and taking the organized fight to idiots like Feinstein and the rest of the communist oppressors. I make it a personal goal to take a non-shooter to the range at least once a month. If all of us did that, we'd see our support grow much quicker than walking around wallyworld with a rifle. The rally on the 19th is a great example, but needs to be often, consistent, and well publicized. Work smarter, not harder.

[tmckay2]

You can be arrested for just about anything, whether you are charged or not is entirely different.

sure, but youre pretty stupid to put yourself in that position, especially with the current climate. i wouldn't trust the legal system with my life.

[tmckay2]

So, let's quit picking on the guy, and answer the questions I posed earlier (above)... What are we going to do to begin to turn the tide?

nothing, thats the problem. the only way to convince people is to educate them on guns, but they have to do that one their own. i have several used to be anti gun friends and family, that once i took them shooting, showed them how to handle a gun, the safeties, etc they are now pro gun. its going to take a looooong time to do that for everyone. on top of that we have to appear like normal, sane, common sense types of people, otherwise people just take what the media says (that we are deranged hicks who are only into conspiracy theories) and couple that with our actions that reflect it and boom, we lose. if everyone appears like normal people who are perfectly rational, for a lot of ignorant people they will realize the rhetoric doesn't match reality. unfortunately, actions like these aren't understood by the general populace and only furthers the lefts agenda. sure, WE can all sit here and understand it and point to his right to do so, but 80% of the population will think its a poor choice and the media will work it into their narrative flawlessly.

[DireWolf]

Okay, two lines of thought here:

First, this guy is 19yo and the other thread about the first guy doing this (and calling cops to inform them first) was 22yo. I think if they were older, in their 40s, it might make a bigger difference in getting their message across. Especially since a majority of the massacres (in fact, nearly all that I can remember) are done at the hands of teens to 25yo's. So naturally, the demographic is young kids carrying rifles into places and shooting. Did these guys NOT think that they'd alarm people?

On the other hand, imagine how the public and government would react if we got just 50%, heck even just 25%, of gun owners to start carrying RIFLES openly. Sure, National Gun Appreciation day seems to have made a public point and was a nice gathering with speakers, but I'm sure not everyone could be there for work or other reasons. But if, say, for the month of February, we got thousands of gun owners to carry their rifles everywhere with them, it would cause widespread panic. People would turn every corner and see a rifle, then call the cops to report it. The cops would be inundated with calls and surely would be required to issue a public statement that what these gun owners are doing is perfectly legal. This also might make politicians realize that we, as gun owners, are NOT willing to back down on our God given rights to defend ourselves, and what our natural born rights as United States of America citizens are given by the Bill of Rights.

The first thread on this subject, I had mixed feelings, saying that I wouldn't do it myself. But if I knew there were hundreds of thousands of other gun owners carrying their rifles openly, I'd be very willing to do it.

Let's do it like the LGBT's did, openly shove it in your face until you're willing to accept it as normal, and don't back down until EVERY tv show has a gun in it! Cause, you know, all tv shows now have at least one gay person in them... [Peep]



^^^This x 1,000,000....I'm sick and fucking tired of having my rights systematically destroyed by bunch of fucking commie pukes....if nothing else it would most likely scare the shit out of the pols and make them realize that they're playing with dynamite and lit matches....

All I'm gonna say on that topic....

[JM Ver. 2.0]

You know, when I was growing up outside of Chicago a LONG time ago, we used to carry rifles from our homes into the woods, and nobody cared. It was considered normal. Later when I was in HS and College in WI, we had 30/30's hanging in the back of our Pickup truck windows, IN THE SCHOOL's Parking lot!

WTF

Responsible people are safe with Guns

Get a grip.

The kid has EVERY right to carry openly.

Quit being pussified by our culture.

OPEN carry is legal in this State.

If you don't like it, move back to CA

Would you feel safer in a gun free zone????

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.... The kid is a moron. Plain and simple.

[Gman]

The Constitution doesn't say squat about having to give up your rights because someone might have bad feelings about it. Nut up.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

The Constitution doesn't say squat about having to give up your rights because someone might have bad feelings about it. Nut up.
The same thing could be said for the people on this forum that keep crying to the mods about the "Big Meany Heads" that call them names they don't like....

[tmckay2]

The Constitution doesn't say squat about having to give up your rights because someone might have bad feelings about it. Nut up.

then have at it, and watch your constitutional rights go right down the crapper. at least you can pat yourself on the back and tell your grand kids you nutted up, and as such they have no gun rights. like it or not this debate isn't going to be determined by the extremists on either side, but the everyday american citizen that doesn't love or hate guns. these types of acts put one in the win column for the anti's. i don't give a crap about offending or scaring the anti's, i do care about the average joe that unfortunately doesn't know any better and can only go off of what they see in real life and the media. i want that guy to think I'm the most down to earth, reasonable, common sensical person out there. the anti's can think whatever they want.

imagine if everyone took their filters off in regards to free speech. at some point you have to use common sense and use your rights wisely.

[BuffCyclist]

The Constitution doesn't say squat about having to give up your rights because someone might have bad feelings about it. Nut up.

Actually, it does (if I recall correctly). Doesn't the first amendment give you the right to free speech so long as your right to free speech does not inflict on someone else's right? Can't think of a scenario, but thats what I recall.

[james_bond_007]

I will play devil's advocate here and ask why challenging the norm is so frowned upon now? Technically speaking supporting Obama seems to be the "norm," if you define the norm as what the majority of everyone else is doing. What about those of us who challenge the norm? Do you find it just that we are harassed or even arrested for going against the grain, but not violating any law? The norm is to not swear in the presence of children, yet I see it constantly. The norm is to not be loud and obnoxious in movie theaters, yet I see it all the time. Do these people break the law? No. So should I call the cops on them? No. See what I mean? Some norms are wrong and need to be changed.

It is not clear if you are directing your comments to me (your use of the word "you") or if you really intended to generalize (perhaps instead by the substitution of the word 'one' instead of 'you').

If the former, I, personally, have no issues with challenging the norm, nor did my post attempt to condone nor condemn such actions (at least my intentions were as such). My post was an attempt to hypothesize a rationale for the reported reactions of observers. I apologize if the post came across as anything else.

People react differently, for many reasons, to atypical events or observances. Calling the police to report things that look "odd", "out of place", or "atypical" does not, at least to me, seem unusual. To me, it seems a mere exercise of caution by the concerned observer(s).

I'm happy to hear that the police recognized the guy's right to bear arms and, after checking out the complaint, all parted peacefully (at least per the versions of this event that I have read).

My opinion is, that if someone wants to legally or illegally challenge the "norm", that is their choice...and they can accept the consequences, however things may turn out.

[Rucker61]

then have at it, and watch your constitutional rights go right down the crapper. at least you can pat yourself on the back and tell your grand kids you nutted up, and as such they have no gun rights. like it or not this debate isn't going to be determined by the extremists on either side, but the everyday american citizen that doesn't love or hate guns. these types of acts put one in the win column for the anti's. i don't give a crap about offending or scaring the anti's, i do care about the average joe that unfortunately doesn't know any better and can only go off of what they see in real life and the media. i want that guy to think I'm the most down to earth, reasonable, common sensical person out there. the anti's can think whatever they want.


Hear, hear.

[Gman]

then have at it, and watch your constitutional rights go right down the crapper.
Hey, bub, they're already going down the crapper...and I did nothing to bring that on. Go and hide and see if it changes their minds.

[Great-Kazoo]

If the anti's are anti's because they're afraid of guns, what's the best way to make them unafraid of guns?

Line them up against the wall. Give them a cigarette, blindfold them then yell. READY, then walk away. The will start smoking and be consumed with the habit so bad, guns will never cross their minds. If it does they simply light another one up.

NOTHING will make an idiot UnAfraid of an inanimate object. You're talking about the same people who "feel" ILLEGAL ALIENS" DESERVE A CHANCE, Child molesters are misunderstood, ANYONE who disagrees with the president is A RACIST on n on n on. Drizzle, drazzle, drizzle, drone.

[Bailey Guns]

This thread is like deja vu all over again.

[Dave_L]

Why not wear a shirt that says "Please ask me why guns are safe" or something along those lines when doing a stunt like this? Same thing as picketers waving signs. I think it might take some of the "scary" away and let people approach you a little easier. You're not there to scare people. You're there to inform. Even take it one step further, let's print up gun facts on cards/flyers to hand out as people walk by.

[Ghosty]

Ya know, I really like that idea. Most reasonable people will be put at ease. Either then ignore you, or ask you questions, if they wanted an intelligent debate and answers to the usual "do you really think we should arm teachers?", and the like.

Only the really uninformed and scared people would still have a negative reaction.

[Dave_L]

Ya know, I really like that idea. Most reasonable people will be put at ease. Either then ignore you, or ask you questions, if they wanted an intelligent debate and answers to the usual "do you really think we should arm teachers?", and the like.

Only the really uninformed and scared people would still have a negative reaction.

Yeah, we have to take the scary away from guns and I feel like this could be an easy way to do so. Ill make a new thread and see what the support is like.

[Wildboarem]

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.... The kid is a moron. Plain and simple.

First Jm, just because you have a First Amendment Right doesn't mean you should, and yes your a moron, Plain and Simple.

Good for the kid, he's got bigger balls than most of his forefathers that allowed his Rights to get trampled. A Right not exercised is no Right at all. I'm with DemoDave, they're coming, you can cowtow, you can play nice, you can hide in shame and fear, but they will come and they WILL confiscate. But only to those who won't resist, those that will comply, those that will conform. As for me, I'm with the kid. My Rights come from God and not man and he and he alone will be the One to take mine.

[Jefe's AR]

First Jm, just because you have a First Amendment Right doesn't mean you should, and yes your a moron, Plain and Simple.

Irony.[Tooth]

[sneakerd]

I'll open the smelly can of tuna- Just how do our "gun rights" come from God?

[Jefe's AR]

I'll open the smelly can of tuna- Just how do our "gun rights" come from God?

Your right to defend yourself and property. Essentially the .gov does not have the authority to deprive you of any 'arms' they may issue or use. At least level the playing field to keep the .gov from having an advantage if tyranny were ever to rear it's ugly head. Which they assumed would eventually and repeatedly happen. It's also considered inalienable which means it can not ever be taken. At the time it was just assumed and even writing it did not make sense to the laymen. But being a wise bunch of freedom lovers who were thinking about you and I, knew that at some point in time some power hungry tyrant would attempt to say differently so they wrote just to make sure.

[sneakerd]

Ok- fair enough, not a bad explanation. I'm simply an agnostic who bucks whenever these generalisms are bandied about like "It's God's will" and that kind of baloney.

[Great-Kazoo]

Your right to defend yourself and property. Essentially the .gov does not have the authority to deprive you of any 'arms' they may issue or use. At least level the playing field to keep the .gov from having an advantage if tyranny were ever to rear it's ugly head. Which they assumed would eventually and repeatedly happen. It's also considered inalienable which means it can not ever be taken. At the time it was just assumed and even writing it did not make sense to the laymen. But being a wise bunch of freedom lovers who were thinking about you and I, knew that at some point in time some power hungry tyrant would attempt to say differently so they wrote just to make sure.

What section of the bible is that in, Ecclesiastics or Old testament?

[Rooskibar03]

Ok- fair enough, not a bad explanation. I'm simply an agnostic who bucks whenever these generalisms are bandied about like "It's God's will" and that kind of baloney.

Heard a good way to look at this from Beck who got it from Penn Gillet.

Christians (people of faith, whatever subset might be) believe our rights come from God. Athiest do not believe in God but still believe in personal rights and they come from within rather then a higher power.

The common agreement is both groups understand that rights DO NOT come from government.

[sellersm]

Not to get too OT, but if you're really interested, here's a decent read. Exodus 22 is part of where the Bible presents the idea of the right to defend one's self.

http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/the-bible-and-self-defense

[Gman]

The founders believed our rights came from our "creator". Essentially they are inherent and you're born with them. Some folks speak of them as "natural rights" and we are not granted them by some legal authority. One of these is self-preservation. Nature isn't here to nurture us. Nature provides us with many opportunities to die. We must fight for our survival. Our founders knew that the best way we could preserve our lives and those of our loved ones was through the use of arms.

Somewhere along the way, some folks decided to ignore or change what "shall not be infringed" means, and here we are. Fighting for our freedom, way of life, and our survival.

[USAFGopherMike]

The gov'ment will do whatever it wants if the people allow it. That being said, they (those that would oppress) were elected my a majority (ignorant and greedy or not) and unless stopped by the Supreme Court, which the last time I checked is in Obama's corner, will deem what they see fit to be "legal".

[Jefe's AR]

What section of the bible is that in, Ecclesiastics or Old testament?

I couldn't tell you if and where you could find it in the bible. If you're referring to 'God giving right' then I would say that 'God' is whatever 'God' you look to. It may Jesus Christ, Buddha, God from the 1st Testament. If you're an atheist you may believe 'God' is nature. Not really important which 'God' you subscribe to. It's your 'natural' right to defend you and yours against attack.

[sneakerd]

The only sentence in the last post that makes any sense to me is the last one. NOT "God-given".