Firing Line's New Transfer Fees-Price Gouging

[JohnFuller]

Today I took delivery of a new pistol I had shipped to The Firing Line. This is the fifth time in the last year that I have used Firing Line as a transfer agent. Their $30 fee was a little high, but they weren't that hard to get along with and are located conveniently. One of the clerks even remembered my name. Today, I was informed the new transfer fee is $50.00. First, the fee was still at $30 at the time the pistol was ordered, and only went up in this crazy lag time between every online place trying to get orders out and the Colorado Insta-Check lag time. More importantly, it just evidences that the Firing Line misses the point.

Each and every time I have a new gun shipped to them, I buy other stuff: Off the top of my head, a $2000 Nightforce Scope, several holsters, boxes of ammo, cases of ammo, magazines, an AR drag bag and other miscellaneous cleaning stuff. Further, each and every time I buy a gun online, it is only after calling them and asking if they have that specific gun in stock. If they did, I bought it from them directly. If not, and after calling around, I bought online.

I don't know if they resent someone purchasing a gun somewhere else and don't want to encourage that behavior, or if they just haven't thought this one through. But I have. By my calculations, they probably have about 30 minutes of labor invested in the average transfer. For one of their clerks at $18k a year, that runs out about $5.00. There is no investment required to get this business, just the FFL they already possess. At $30 bucks, the return was $25 or a 500% profit. Now, it is a ridiculous $45 or a 900% profit. To me, this is price gouging and is no different that a retailer jacking the price on a P-mag to $40 or $60 just to take advantage of the supply shortage. By way of analogy, in Florida, you might think plywood would become a hot commodity during hurricanes. It is actually illegal to profiteer from these situations. I'm not saying the recent shortages are the same as a hurricane, well, on second thought..., but merely that this business philosophy shouldn't be tolerated by the community.

Firing Line: you just lost a customer.

[BPTactical]

Paging Dave..............

[ray1970]

First off, let me say that I feel just about everything at the Firing Line is overpriced. Sneakerd will probably be along to stand up for the place shortly.

Anyhow, I think people ordering firearms direct from the distributors and having them transferred through an FFL is becoming pretty common these days and is really cutting in to the profits of the gun dealers. I'm not surprised to see them raising their transfer fees to try to keep their business in the black. They really aren't there to serve you or do you any favors. They are there to make money. We, as consumers, want the best deal possible but the dealers are looking to maximize their profits. Finding that middle ground is the ideal situation.

For what it's worth, last I checked Rapid Fire Bunker was still doing transfers for $15.

[Kraven251]

Bowers Tactical and the Shootin Shack do transfers for $25. I used to always go through the Shootin Shack because Jay is a pretty good guy, but now that Bowers has their FFL, I go through them.

[merl]

"overcharging" for a transfer is just a way of saying "we do not want to do transfers."

There are other places, use em.

[Batteriesnare]

You clearly have not thought this through.

First, I have serious doubts that Firing Line did this as a personal attack on you, which is how you seem to be taking it. I'm sure they appreciate your business, but even if you do purchase peripheral items from them, their business model is not there to support you and you alone. Consider the multiple factors at work here:

Inventory - with the recent run on guns and ammunition, their stock is much lower than normal. Less product on the shelf means less money coming into the business. Without goods, they need to make up for their income/overhead through other means. Since services (transfers) do not go out of stock in this case, it is a way to help sustain their business.

Re-order- I wish you could see what restocking previous inventory is going to cost us in the firearms business. In addition to the normal beginning of the year increases, the exponential demand on manufactures and distributors has caused them to go into a rationing mode. Most businesses have been told to expect 10% of what they order. Again, with lower amounts of inventory to sell in the future, the business must take action to account for that loss of potential revenue.'

Supply/Demand- Go back to school and take economics. When there is a higher demand for a good or service, the price goes up. To what it goes up will be up to each business, but it is expected to rise. If you do not like that rise, you have the option to shop elsewhere, as has been mentioned from previous posters. That is your option as a consumer, and should enough consumers go elsewhere, the business will have to readjust or go out of business. That is the nature of capitalism, and the market - it will regulate itself. But your getting online and whining and accusing them of price gouging merely shows your ignorance, especially since it seems that people are paying their increased rates. If people pay it, it's the going rate, whether you like it or not.

[Busta Prima]

I take it the OP is not a member? Spending that much there you should have probably joined. They seem to treat members a LOT better and I bet members don't pay $50 for transfers.

[sneakerd]

Yup- the resident FL "shill" is here- if just for a few minutes. The OPs breakdown of cost is totally inaccurate, but I'm not going to waste anyone's time countering it. He doesn't work with us- so his cost breakdown is pure fantasy. FL did raise transfer costs as of 1/12. Obviously not my decision as I'm just a worker bee there. Since the big box stores stopped doing transfers, we have been literally overwhelmed with them. Storage space is at a premium these days, and it has proven difficult to store both all of the transfers and the in-store purchases. As I recall, 5280s transfer fee is $100 now, according to another poster. If you aren't happy with the fee, then do your transfer somewhere else. It's not going to change in the near future, so I don't know what else to say about that. As far as high prices are concerned- what cloud are you on? Name any other store that will still sell ARs at near pre-panic prices. ARs still trickle in, and we are not pricing them that much higher than 6 weeks ago. The last NIB AR we got, last Monday? I think, was a CMMG heavy barrel carbine. It was priced at $1449. A Christiansen Arms CAR was also put out that day, at $3445. The CA pre-panic price was approx $3200. It is a high-end AR. The week before, a NIB Stag AR went out the door at $995. Just before that a Colt 6920 at $1450. Again, this is when they would have been priced elsewhere over 2G. Our prices are ALWAYS below MSRP, as we base our price on what we pay for the gun, not MSRP. We get comments all of the time over the counter about how good our prices are, but on the forums people say "They're sooo expensive." Where else can you still buy a Glock 17 mag for $36? Didn't raise prices one penny on hi-cap handguns. Where else can you get Magpul mags off the shelf locally for $39.95? They're $95 at the Shootist. Best I can do right now.

[brobar]

The last several firearms purchases I have made have all been transferred through Jay at the Shootin Shack! Great guy! $25 for the first transfer and $10 for each additional. It is a little out of my way to pick up transfers there... but I would much rather spend a little more in time and gas than give the Firing Line my money.

[sneakerd]

Members pay the same transfer fee.

[trlcavscout]

I Know dealers bitch about doing transfers especially on new guns. If it was a good enough deal to buy online and wait I dont mind paying a transfer. All the FFL has to decide is do they want my $15-$25 or not? They can make that off me or they can make nothing off me.

[sneakerd]

Batteriesnare- [Score]


[Bow]

[JohnFuller]

I am not taking anything personally. The Firing line doesn't owe me anything. Other than the "cost" of letting a box sit on a shelf for a few days while the background check goes through, I don't think there is a whole lot else other than labor. This is not an issue of supply and demand. And to Sneakered, I did not complain about the prices at FL. I think I can find almost anything you sell at a minimally cheaper cost elsewhere, but I cannot always justify the savings with the shipping. That could be said for any other retail operation. That is why I specifically pointed out the thousands of dollars I have spent there for things other than guns. My point, generally, is that keeping prices low on things like a transfer fee will still get people in the door buying everything else from the shop. Perhaps when this current craze dies down, customer service will become a bigger issue. My 2 cents.

[Great-Kazoo]

5 post in to the board and you complain about transfer fees. While i understand your frustration with FL over a "sudden" increase for their fee, perhaps gouging is the wrong term. EVERYTHING GUN RELATED HAS INCREASED,
Now since you are new, you might want to look over the forum and see we have an area to post Dealer reviews / Complaints. Good Day Young man.

[drew890]

The OP doesn't fully understand what the definition of Price Gouging really is. FL raising their in house prices on a transfer does not constitute Price Gouging. A FFL transfer is a service performed by the business. Price Gouging pertains to goods or commodities, and is generally applied only to life sustaining items. Contrary to some people's opinions, a gun transfer is not a life sustaining transaction (not yet at least). It is a service provided by a private entity. As such the entity can place whatever value that they believe fit to provide this service. This value can be driven by external competitors, sustainability, overhead, etc.
The term Price Gouging is being over and falsely applied by too many people in the past month. This is business.

[Ridge]

Nobody on here seems to understand what price gouging is.

Price gouging is jacking up the price of necessary survival items like food and water in time of emergency. Jacking up the price of a transfer fee on a firearm during what is probably the biggest purchase craze in many years is NOT gouging, it is free market in action.

[Gunner]

It's simply offering an item at a price. You do not have to buy that item. Free markets, you may charge what ever you want.

[waxthis]

I really think a group hug is in Order. It's a shit time to buy and sell period, we WILL get through it...[HiFive]

[brobar]

Yep... gouging and taking an advantage of a situation are two completely different things. You can't blame them for taking advantage of the current frenzy. However, you can let people know of those who aren't taking advantage of the situation and also do your business there if you so choose. I wouldn't do transfers at FL even before the price increase. It had nothing to do with their fee and more to do with their customer service in other areas. Where I do my transfers... the staff is friendly, attentive, they give great service and the prices are good to boot. The FL will eventually bring that fee back down once the frenzy dies down and customers realize they have other choices where they aren't capitalizing on the frenzy. In the meantime though... there are dozens upon dozens of places in the area that offer FFLs for half of what FL is charging. So that puts YOU (OP) in the driver's seat. Pay the fees at FL or go to one of the many other places who aren't charging that much.

While I don't do transfers at FL... I'm sure others will appreciate you bringing the fee to their attention so they can now shop around for a more competitive fee. Thanks for letting us know!

[Jmetz]

For what it's worth, last I checked Rapid Fire Bunker was still doing transfers for $15.

Confirmed, and They are very nice people and want your business. They are way the hell out of my way but Steve is on a couple forums I'm on and I'll go out of my way to give my business to where I'm treated well.

As for The Firing Line, I've never cared for them (no offense sneakerd). Every time I've been in there the generally feeling I get from the counter staff is that they are unapproachable and too bad ass for the likes of someone that doesnt work at a gun store. I did a transfer through them a couple years ago and it took over a week after the lower came in for them to get to it. The general attitude was that they didn't care and they'll get around to it eventually.

That was the last time I did business with them.

[jslo]

While I agree with 90% of the general consensus of the posts, changing the fee for this particular purchase is, IMO, a form of extortion. If the firearm was purchased before the hike in fees the lower fee should have been honored.

[funkymonkey1111]

Moral of the story--you're wasting your time and money at Firing Line. Do your transfers at J&J Shooting Shack from now on, and be happy like every other person that's ever set foot in that shop.

[brobar]

Moral of the story--you're wasting your time and money at Firing Line. Do your transfers at J&J Shooting Shack from now on, and be happy like every other person that's ever set foot in that shop.

I pass at least a few dozen FFL locations in the 45 minute drive I make to the Shootin Shack. That tells you how pleased I've been with Jay's service... ESPECIALLY since I see time as money and am willing to take the time to go out of my way to do business there. My wife and I won't deal with anyone else for transfers.

[DHC]

Transfer service offered by FFL's has long been a topic for debate. Before the latest craze transfer fees ranged from $15 to $30 for a single transfer. Over the course of the past few years I have worked with at least 6 different FFL's for transfers. It is possible to do a bit of checking to find a FFL who explicitly seeks transfer business. In my experience, those are the best to work with. Naming those I prefer, J&J and Rapid Fire Bunker are my preferred FFL's for transfers. J&J charges a bit more for a single firearm transfer, but is less costly if transferring more than one firearm in a single transaction. Both are professional, courteous and want your transfer business. I believe it is because Jay and Steve are sincerely interested in building a large network of satisfied customers no matter the size of the transaction - and they are succeeding (IMO). And I should add that Bowers is closest to me and now that they have an FFL (just read that), I'll definitely be using Mike and Rob for my next transfer.

The larger shops seem to offer FFL transfers only as an aside to their primary business and the attention they provide reflects it. For a time (and maybe still) Bass Pro offered the best transfer price for multiple items in a single transfer, but they are located so far away from me that it was impractical. Still, all the bigger shops, like Firing Line, have had spotty reports in terms of their FFL transfer service for quite a while.

FWIW

[DeusExMachina]

The unfortunate fact is that retailers who can't get product to sell need to make their money elsewhere. Even though Firing Line is a high traffic shop, they pale in comparison to Buds or any other online gun dealer, so they are lower priority for receiving product to sell. Thus the increase in an attempt to recover the lost revenue from products they can't get to sell. Add in sneakerd's reasons and you can get a pretty good picture of what is happening and going to happen in the industry for the foreseeable future.

However, the reasoning for FL's crazy prices before the panic is just pure greed. :D

[Jmetz]

The unfortunate fact is that retailers who can't get product to sell need to make their money elsewhere. Even though Firing Line is a high traffic shop, they pale in comparison to Buds or any other online gun dealer, so they are lower priority for receiving product to sell. Thus the increase in an attempt to recover the lost revenue from products they can't get to sell. Add in sneakerd's reasons and you can get a pretty good picture of what is happening and going to happen in the industry for the foreseeable future.

However, the reasoning for FL's crazy prices before the panic is just pure greed. :D

The only problem with this line of thought is that they moved more product in a month (and at higher prices) then they normally move in a year. So money was made. The whole "we don't have anything to sell so we're not making money" thing doesn't hold water for me. You just made a years worth of sales in month, unless you already squandered your profit and didn't budget accordingly, there shouldn't be an issue.

[patrick0685]

Jay is a great guy...everyone I have ever sent there has been happy

[Great-Kazoo]

The only problem with this line of thought is that they moved more product in a month (and at higher prices) then they normally move in a year. So money was made. The whole "we don't have anything to sell so we're not making money" thing doesn't hold water for me. You just made a years worth of sales in month, unless you already squandered your profit and didn't budget accordingly, there shouldn't be an issue.

Yes you did and for the next 6 months have minimal inventory arriving at who knows what price increase, PLUS payroll, ins, etc. When inventory arrives the 6 AR that was part of the order has now been reduced to 2 if that.

[bellavite1]

While I agree with 90% of the general consensus of the posts, changing the fee for this particular purchase is, IMO, a form of extortion. If the firearm was purchased before the hike in fees the lower fee should have been honored.

+1

[DeusExMachina]

The only problem with this line of thought is that they moved more product in a month (and at higher prices) then they normally move in a year. So money was made. The whole "we don't have anything to sell so we're not making money" thing doesn't hold water for me. You just made a years worth of sales in month, unless you already squandered your profit and didn't budget accordingly, there shouldn't be an issue.

They moved more product in a month at normal prices than they normally move in a few months. I doubt they can stock enough product for one year. And then they ran out of product to sell, and it is difficult to get more. They raised prices since because of less volume of product being sold due to demand far outweighing supply.

Just because people bought everything they had to sell doesn't mean they're living like kings. It means they don't have anything left to sell going forward.

[Jmetz]

Sorry my "they" isn't referencing the FL directly but gun shops as a whole. Personally I think most made out better then they would have you believe. They should be able to float themselves through the short supply.

[Ghosty]

Bowers Tactical and the Shootin Shack do transfers for $25. I used to always go through the Shootin Shack because Jay is a pretty good guy, but now that Bowers has their FFL, I go through them.
That's a good deal. Gander Mountain says $75 which is outrageous. MachinegunTours asks $50.

[DeusExMachina]

Sorry my "they" isn't referencing the FL directly but gun shops as a whole. Personally I think most made out better then they would have you believe. They should be able to float themselves through the short supply.

How? Most shops didn't raise prices until after they were mostly cleaned out. And now they can't get anything to sell. How is that doing well?

[Jmetz]

How? Most shops didn't raise prices until after they were mostly cleaned out. And now they can't get anything to sell. How is that doing well?

They moved a heavy volume in a short amount of time. If they can handle their books they'll be just fine. You're selling widgets, and your projected sales for the next 6 months is $6000. There's a run on widgets and you just made $6000 in one month. Is it not safe to say that you should be able to carry yourself through the next 6 months as that's what you were budgeted for? Would it also be safe to say that any further sales of widgets you may get in over the next 6 months is increasing your profit?

I may be all wet, but it seems logical to me.

[DeusExMachina]

They moved a heavy volume in a short amount of time. If they can handle their books they'll be just fine. You're selling widgets, and your projected sales for the next 6 months is $6000. There's a run on widgets and you just made $6000 in one month. Is it not safe to say that you should be able to carry yourself through the next 6 months as that's what you were budgeted for? Would it also be safe to say that any further sales of widgets you may get in over the next 6 months is increasing your profit?

I may be all wet, but it seems logical to me.

You're assuming an unlimited supply of widgets and that you have a projected 6 months supply of widgets in stock.

Either that or you're suggesting if they were clairvoyant, saw the future panic and prepared for it, they will be OK.

[Jmetz]

I am suggesting they easily moved 6 months worth of gun sales. I don't believe guns to be typically a high volume mover so I would guess that most stores have (had) several months worth of sales sitting in the display cases.

[Great-Kazoo]

They moved a heavy volume in a short amount of time. If they can handle their books they'll be just fine. You're selling widgets, and your projected sales for the next 6 months is $6000. There's a run on widgets and you just made $6000 in one month. Is it not safe to say that you should be able to carry yourself through the next 6 months as that's what you were budgeted for? Would it also be safe to say that any further sales of widgets you may get in over the next 6 months is increasing your profit?

I may be all wet, but it seems logical to me.

Only if widgets ordered were received in qty's expected, prices remained at original cost AND OTC sales were not taking 7-10 days to remove from inventory.
IF you continue to sell last months volume, if not your expected sales figures go out the window. Take a hit on new sales due to no inventory and that $6K now has to cover X time frame until restocked. Just because they charge X and made X doesn't mean that amount is constant.
Would you like a Towel?

[Great-Kazoo]

I am suggesting they easily moved 6 months worth of gun sales. I don't believe guns to be typically a high volume mover so I would guess that most stores have (had) several months worth of sales sitting in the display cases.

If your business has several months of inventory on hand, you either have a shitty sales dept, ordered the wrong items, OR priced them too high. Not to sure how your business plan is set up. Mine wants to move inventory as fast as possible.
In today's gun industry, the potential to be shut down by end of business day, puts me wanting everything SOLD ASAP. NYS is a perfect example, tuesday everything in stock was legal, Wednesday morning it wasn't. I hit a few LGS's while there and believe me there are a lot of LGS's were put out of business with the stroke of a pen.

[Jmetz]

I can agree with some of what you're saying. I guess I way under estimate the volume of average gun sales. When I walk into a shop and see several racks of long guns and several display cases of handguns, and take into account inventory I don't see, to me that's a lot of guns to move in a month without a panic.

[sneakerd]

I ask anyone here to name a single shop -anywhere- where you can still get NIB 5.56 cal AR15s for approx $1500. (When we can get them). Also, an earlier poster made reference to a few years ago when he was encountering counter sales staff who acted as if they were "badass". There is NO ONE at FL working there currently who acts like that. Like anywhere else, counter sales staff have varying levels of expertise, depending on their firearms experience. As an fyi- if it matters, we have 2 USMC vets, an Army vet, and a Brit Royal Marine behind the counters, along with the rest of us "commoners". We cannot make everyone happy, but we try the best we can.

[C Ward]

It's always amazed me that people complain about the fee's charged for transfers for stuff that was bought from the competition . When did it become normal in any business for someone to source there own products from a 3rd party and then expect a local vendor to facilitate the sale for something they sell themselves ? I don't see how any resonable person can expect a business to make concessions for events that were created by 3rd and 4th parties that is beyond there control . That's like saying that " I was gonna buy gas last week when it was 2.50 but now it's 3.00 you should sell it to me for 2.50 " .

[asmo]

They moved a heavy volume in a short amount of time. If they can handle their books they'll be just fine. You're selling widgets, and your projected sales for the next 6 months is $6000. There's a run on widgets and you just made $6000 in one month. Is it not safe to say that you should be able to carry yourself through the next 6 months as that's what you were budgeted for? Would it also be safe to say that any further sales of widgets you may get in over the next 6 months is increasing your profit?

I may be all wet, but it seems logical to me.


You REALLY need to go an take a financial accounting and micro-economics class. We all wish that supply volumes were indefinite (but if they were, costs would be indefinitely low as well).

If I was running a shop right now I would be in full on panic mode about how I am going to pay overhead for the next 12 months while I wait on suppliers. I would be looking at seriously altering my business models.

[Jmetz]

You REALLY need to go an take a financial accounting and micro-economics class. We all wish that supply volumes were indefinite (but if they were, costs would be indefinitely low as well).

If I was running a shop right now I would be in full on panic mode about how I am going to pay overhead for the next 12 months while I wait on suppliers. I would be looking at seriously altering my business models.


I was not implying indefinite supply. I was more stating that if you are budgeting for X amount of dollars in projected sales over X amount of time and you make those dollars in a shorter amount of time you should then be covered for the rest of that duration. Even if you have no supply. Maybe I'm wrong or not wording it right but to me it seems logical.

[wARmachine15]

Raising FFL fees to supplement revenue when retail sales are down because of low inventory is short term thinking. Keep them reasonable during this period and you may make a long term customer. One that will come back well after the panic is over.

FFL is great bait for new customers too. I'm going to check out the Bunker because of theirs.

[Great-Kazoo]

I was not implying indefinite supply. I was more stating that if you are budgeting for X amount of dollars in projected sales over X amount of time and you make those dollars in a shorter amount of time you should then be covered for the rest of that duration. Even if you have no supply. Maybe I'm wrong or not wording it right but to me it seems logical.

You have used [Wrong or not] AND [logical] in 2-3 post all of them have already been pointed out to be incorrect or basically a lack of understanding business supply & demand.
I offered you a towel , perhaps i'll sprinkle it with some logic. Splash it like an aftershave and WAKE UP .

[Great-Kazoo]

I was not implying indefinite supply. I was more stating that if you are budgeting for X amount of dollars in projected sales over X amount of time and you make those dollars in a shorter amount of time you should then be covered for the rest of that duration. Even if you have no supply. Maybe I'm wrong or not wording it right but to me it seems logical.

You have used [Wrong or not] AND [logical] in 2-3 post all of them have already been pointed out to be incorrect or basically a lack of understanding business supply & demand.
I offered you a towel.

Raising fees in the long run might not be a smart business decision. However, until LGS can resupply how do you pay bills, payroll etc?

[sneakerd]

For Jim (and others)- explaining certain things far better than I can....

[Bow]

[Great-Kazoo]

For Jim (and others)- explaining certain things far better than I can....

[Bow]


Thx. feel like i'm training our new pup. 40% she's on the money. the other 60% it's like there's a 3rd dog in the room and she thinks we are talking to it. Eyes roll and no sense what so ever.

People forget you're just an employee. IF they are really upset there's always management. That's where i go to resolve an issue before airing my laundry in public. Guess it's easier to type than Gripe. of course if a valid issue falls on deaf ears, then it's off to let others know of their issue. Sounds LOGICal to me.

[sneakerd]

I (duh) actually like working at FL. After 25+ years in the repo business- (done that before?) I like what I'm doing. The pay is a crime, but overall I think we do things pretty well there. Some things better than others, like any other workplace.
I've been buying and selling guns my entire adult life. Now i do it as a profession. What a bum deal..[pick-me]

[funkymonkey1111]

It's always amazed me that people complain about the fee's charged for transfers for stuff that was bought from the competition . When did it become normal in any business for someone to source there own products from a 3rd party and then expect a local vendor to facilitate the sale for something they sell themselves ? I don't see how any resonable person can expect a business to make concessions for events that were created by 3rd and 4th parties that is beyond there control . That's like saying that " I was gonna buy gas last week when it was 2.50 but now it's 3.00 you should sell it to me for 2.50 " .

the dealer doesn't have to do transfers. It became normal when the business advises they offer transfers

[sneakerd]

Keep punching Mike! You might graze someone eventually!

[C Ward]

the dealer doesn't have to do transfers. It became normal when the business advises they offer transfers

So this means they can charge what is felt by them to be fair market prices for the service . The OP stated that they and the 3rd party vendor are the ones that delayed the purchase , I fail to see how any of that falls to the shop facilitating the transfer to be responsible for .

Keep buying online from vendors with no stake locally and pretty soon your going to be SOL with nobody left to transfer stuff .

[Great-Kazoo]

So this means they can charge what is felt by them to be fair market prices for the service . The OP stated that they and the 3rd party vendor are the ones that delayed the purchase , I fail to see how any of that falls to the shop facilitating the transfer to be responsible for .

Keep buying online from vendors with no stake locally and pretty soon your going to be SOL with nobody left to transfer stuff .

Or remember the good ol daze when transfers were $75!

[GMCSLEHD]

I ask anyone here to name a single shop -anywhere- where you can still get NIB 5.56 cal AR15s for approx $1500. (When we can get them).

Since you asked. The Front Range Gun Club in Loveland. They havent marked a single thing up that I have seen, and they have been delivering AR's to people.

[sneakerd]

I take your word for it- but I wonder why we haven't heard anything about their comparatively bargain prices here on the forum? What price point was their last NIB 5.56 AR? When did they sell it? I've shot up there many times, and their range is 2nd to none.

[sroz]

Stopped in today just to pick up some grease & look around. Didn't see anything ridiculously priced. Matter of fact all prices looked pretty good considering everything going on around us. PMAGs under $40. The goons behind the counters were fairly well behaved & I soon got over my fear of them. I did feel gouged, however when I asked for the price on a $40 mag that was out of its package. It was a Bersa 9 rnd 380 mag (Gander sells them for $50 when they have them). They sold it to me for $10. I considered telling them where to stick that mag, but in these crazy times I swallowed my pride and parted with old man Hamilton. I don't think I will ever go there again.
I'm sure sneakerd will be on to defend their practices.
Also stopped by another LGS and have to admit I felt sorry for them. Damn near out of stock and no clue when they will receive new stock. I fear some of our smaller shops are facing tough times & some will not survive.

[Great-Kazoo]

Stopped in today just to pick up some grease & look around. Didn't see anything ridiculously priced. Matter of fact all prices looked pretty good considering everything going on around us. PMAGs under $40. The goons behind the counters were fairly well behaved & I soon got over my fear of them. I did feel gouged, however when I asked for the price on a $40 mag that was out of its package. It was a Bersa 9 rnd 380 mag (Gander sells them for $50 when they have them). They sold it to me for $10. I considered telling them where to stick that mag, but in these crazy times I swallowed my pride and parted with old man Hamilton. I don't think I will ever go there again.
I'm sure sneakerd will be on to defend their practices.
Also stopped by another LGS and have to admit I felt sorry for them. Damn near out of stock and no clue when they will receive new stock. I fear some of our smaller shops are facing tough times & some will not survive.
[ROFL2]
Well hopefully they banked that Inflated profit from last month. Sure it will tide them over indefinitely.

[sneakerd]

Sam (sroz) is not my favorite customer. As a matter of fact, I go out of my way to screw him over every time he comes in. We circle him like the goons we are and taunt, berate and bully him. We don't understand why he keeps coming back, must be a co-dependence issue. He doesn't know it yet, but that mag we tricked him into buying will blow up his pistol! By the way- we got in some CCI Mini-mag 22LR today- I was able to trick a number of customers into buying that crappy ammo! [Muaha]

[sroz]

Sam (sroz) is not my favorite customer. As a matter of fact, I go out of my way to screw him over every time he comes in. We circle him like the goons we are and taunt, berate and bully him. We don't understand why he keeps coming back, must be a co-dependence issue. He doesn't know it yet, but that mag we tricked him into buying will blow up his pistol! By the way- we got in some CCI Mini-mag 22LR today- I was able to trick a number of customers into buying that crappy ammo! [Muaha]

Damn. You screwed me again! I was seriously looking for 22lr while I was there. I can't believe I frickin missed it!

[sneakerd]

Sending a PM

[Wildboarem]

Where to start, where to start. I'm curious to know how many people that have commented have actually owned a business? No offense sneakerd but you are only an employee, I do however respect your loyalty to your employer, keep it up. As someone who has a business that is partially dependent on goods bought wholesale and sold retail, I think there have been a couple of things over looked.
First, as far as inventory goes, most businesses I know will make a decision to purchase a certain amount of product to then sell in a certain amount of time for a certain margin. It's my job to know my clientele, how quickly I can resupply and what my margin needs to be. The margin needs to factor in contingencies and have a buffer for unknowns. Can one know all unknowns? No. Should a gun shop/ffl have a clue that a re-election of the President would bring with it more gun control? They should have. If the shop makes a decision leading up to this and has to change prices mid-buying frenzy the public perception might not be that good. If a shop changes its price mid-buying panic just to increase profit and take advantage of the situation with none of there actual costs going up, again the buying public might not be happy. I think that is what is going on here and if a company stands behind their price increases then they should keep them there after the panic and see how it works out.
It all comes down to free markets and Capitalism. If a shop wants to take advantage of a situation and charge me more when things are tight, they can. I may choose not to do business with them in the future. I have a choice and they have a choice. The one issue I do have is that selling all of ones inventory in a short amount of time is a bad thing. If selling a seasons (6months for me) worth of goods in a month and have to close my business because I can't get resupplied is asinine. I better make sure my customer service is top notch and have some type of diversity. I definitely don't buy the poor gun shop, poor gun shop.

[sneakerd]

I never claimed to be anything more than a worker bee there. Since I am an employee, I think I have a more informed position as to what goes on at FL and why than anonymous posters on the internet.
Otherwise- good post.

[Great-Kazoo]

Where to start, where to start. I'm curious to know how many people that have commented have actually owned a business? No offense sneakerd but you are only an employee, I do however respect your loyalty to your employer, keep it up. As someone who has a business that is partially dependent on goods bought wholesale and sold retail, I think there have been a couple of things over looked.
First, as far as inventory goes, most businesses I know will make a decision to purchase a certain amount of product to then sell in a certain amount of time for a certain margin. It's my job to know my clientele, how quickly I can resupply and what my margin needs to be. The margin needs to factor in contingencies and have a buffer for unknowns. Can one know all unknowns? No. Should a gun shop/ffl have a clue that a re-election of the President would bring with it more gun control? They should have. If the shop makes a decision leading up to this and has to change prices mid-buying frenzy the public perception might not be that good. If a shop changes its price mid-buying panic just to increase profit and take advantage of the situation with none of there actual costs going up, again the buying public might not be happy. I think that is what is going on here and if a company stands behind their price increases then they should keep them there after the panic and see how it works out.
It all comes down to free markets and Capitalism. If a shop wants to take advantage of a situation and charge me more when things are tight, they can. I may choose not to do business with them in the future. I have a choice and they have a choice. The one issue I do have is that selling all of ones inventory in a short amount of time is a bad thing. If selling a seasons (6months for me) worth of goods in a month and have to close my business because I can't get resupplied is asinine. I better make sure my customer service is top notch and have some type of diversity. I definitely don't buy the poor gun shop, poor gun shop.


Most if not all LGS' did plan for a what if, However the run on guns did not start until mid week after the CT school shooting. Every LGS had inventory on hand and on the shelves. Bear arms had 2 full containers of Bulgarian AR mags @ 1pm, wed. By 1:30 they were GONE. Not from lack of "preparedness" on the owners side, but from a line of folks out the door buying anything not nailed down. I was there @ 1 and went back @ 1:25 to pick up a pistol as it was a 20min + - BG approval time
So as a business owner you would tell them sorry, If i sell you this gun i will not have one to sell next month. yeah that's going over well. But Mr X i see you have 5 gallon gas cans, i ran out of gas and want to buy one. Sorry kid if i sell you one, i don't have one next time someone ask, as my delivery didn't arrive today.

When a supplier is unable to supply and all your other options are out of inventory you are SOL. No matter how well you "prepared" .

[sneakerd]

Just as an fyi- what I'm calling "The Rapture" started at 12 noon the day of Sandy Hook.

[Goodburbon]

I pay $20 for transfers. I buy other items every time i visit the dealer i transfer through. A $50 transfer just tells me you dont want my business. THats fine by me. Glad i dont live near that shop!

[sroz]

Just as an fyi- what I'm calling "The Rapture" started at 12 noon the day of Sandy Hook.

Exactly. Surely no one saw Sandy Hook coming, so I doubt anyone prepared for it.

[Goodburbon]

Exactly. Surely no one saw Sandy Hook coming, so I doubt anyone prepared for it.

SArcasm?

It was just a matter of time. The writing has been on the wall for quite some time.

[car-15]

SArcasm?

It was just a matter of time. The writing has been on the wall for quite some time.
yep, and some of us are stocked up just fine[Ban3]

[kj4963]

Just a FYI. Although not convenient for me and I am sure alot of people, Rapid fire Bunker in Littleton does $15 transfers and are good people. I will go out of my way to give them business.

[sroz]

SArcasm?

It was just a matter of time. The writing has been on the wall for quite some time.

No sarcasm. Sure another mass murder was just a matter of time. As for the magnitude of it & it's impact on the nation, I don't think anyone saw that writing on the wall. The slaughter of all those 5 & 6 year old children was unthinkable. As for being prepared, I've got everything I need.

[Goodburbon]

No sarcasm. Sure another mass murder was just a matter of time. As for the magnitude of it & it's impact on the nation, I don't think anyone saw that writing on the wall. The slaughter of all those 5 & 6 year old children was unthinkable. As for being prepared, I've got everything I need.


As do I, but I always want more.

[Bowtie]

9news just did a piece from the firing line. They said the sales manager supports the bill for the state to charge $10 to preform a background check. "Its fairly reasonable if its costing the state money and someones buying an expensive thing already"

[DeusExMachina]

Wow guess who's not walking into TFL ever again! Sorry Dave!

[ChunkyMonkey]

I am gonna be watching 9news at 9 when they are supposed to air the interview with firing line again... The reporter did mention that firing line agrees with some of the introduced bill without going into specific. This is mess up.

[Bowtie]

It was in the 6 o'clock segment. I was in cooking dinner and heard it the background. I went and rewinded the DVR. What I quoted is exactly what the reporter said. I searched the 9news websight but couldn't find the same video.

[Rooskibar03]

Does it seem like FL is the only gun shop in town to appear or be quoted in every Denver Post and 9News broadcast?

Do they have some sort of exclusive agreement or are they the only ones willing to talk?


It was in the 6 o'clock segment. I was in cooking dinner and heard it the background. I went and rewinded the DVR. What I quoted is exactly what the reporter said. I searched the 9news websight but couldn't find the same video.

I watched that segment online earlier and now it's missing?

[Great-Kazoo]

Does it seem like FL is the only gun shop in town to appear or be quoted in every Denver Post and 9News broadcast?

Do they have some sort of exclusive agreement or are they the only ones willing to talk?



I watched that segment online earlier and now it's missing?

Since gentle SCAM Dave found Jesus (Again) they have no one to go to.

[Bowtie]

I watched that segment online earlier and now it's missing?

They did live segments in the 5 and 6 segments only the 5 is online.

[sneakerd]

That quote was taken out of context for starters. We welcome "friendly" news organizations in an effort to get our side out as much as possible. There is no special arrangement with anyone. Just wondering, where do people think the funding for CBI is going to come from- especially with the additional funding request being shut down a few weeks ago? Who is going to do all of the additional background checks if some kind of universal bgc law is enacted? Does anyone really think it will be free? Are all of you going to be satisfied with permanent 7 days and more wait times? Without funds coming from somewhere- it will be an endless backlog with no end in sight. Beyond that- do you realize that the gunshop will almost certainly have to take possession of the firearm from a private gun sale for the duration of the background check? So would you prefer background checks to continue at their current pace and likely get much worse, or perhaps go back to where they were last November and before? I'll hand over the sawbuck thanks, and happily.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

That quote was taken out of context for starters. We welcome "friendly" news organizations in an effort to get our side out as much as possible. There is no special arrangement with anyone. Just wondering, where do people think the funding for CBI is going to come from- especially with the additional funding request being shut down a few weeks ago? Who is going to do all of the additional background checks if some kind of universal bgc law is enacted? Does anyone really think it will be free? Are all of you going to be satisfied with permanent 7 days and more wait times? Without funds coming from somewhere- it will be an endless backlog with no end in sight. Beyond that- do you realize that the gunshop will almost certainly have to take possession of the firearm from a private gun sale for the duration of the background check? So would you prefer background checks to continue at their current pace and likely get much worse, or perhaps go back to where they were last November and before? I'll hand over the sawbuck thanks, and happily.

So you're cool with "compromise"? Cool. How about no to any of the shittin proposed legislation? Take that stance. No universal background checks, thus no need for "7 day waiting period" or $10 fee.

[sneakerd]

Good luck with that. Reality sucks, but it is what it is. I don't want any additional gun laws, and I would like to go back to pre '68 gun laws. I want to be able to purchase, shoot and collect a WW2 German MP40 without restrictions. I wish I had more hair.

[Bowtie]

What will wait time be when you can only buy bolt actions and shotguns? Your not seeing the trees for the forest.

[brutal]

We tried to dump the redundant CBI Instacheck system (HB1048) and it was killed in a partisan Committee by Senate referral.

CBI themselves have said a UBC would overload the system.

Date
Action Description



4/23/2012

Senate Committee on State, Veterans & Military Affairs Postpone Indefinitely

4/18/2012
Introduced In Senate - Assigned to State, Veterans & Military Affairs

4/18/2012
House Third Reading Passed

4/17/2012
House Third Reading Laid Over Daily

4/16/2012
House Second Reading Passed with Amendments

3/28/2012
House Second Reading Laid Over Daily with Amendments

3/27/2012
House Second Reading Laid Over Daily

3/23/2012
House Committee on Appropriations Refer Amended to House Committee of the Whole

2/29/2012
House Committee on Finance Refer Unamended to Appropriations

2/9/2012
House Committee on Judiciary Refer Unamended to Finance

1/11/2012
Introduced In House - Assigned to Judiciary

[asmo]

So would you prefer background checks to continue at their current pace and likely get much worse, or perhaps go back to where they were last November and before? I'll hand over the sawbuck thanks, and happily.

No.. Most of us would prefer to see the redundant CBI check go the fuck away. NICS has the ability swell with volume - CBI doesn't.

[ChunkyMonkey]

One more shop to avoid for me unfortunately. I have been there only twice, last one was few years ago during the 2008 ammo panic. My experience was horrible although I have been hearing good things lately. In the most part thanks to Sneakered. After that interview, you can thank your boss for undoing all the public relation work you have done for FL for free.

hate typing on iPad.. Excuse the grammar.

[DeusExMachina]

It takes a special breed of anti-gunner to IGNORE the fact that CBI costs Colorado millions and millions of dollars for absolutely no reason, but cling to it because it's an accepted infringement on gun owners. To add on a tax to expand their bloated budget and abilities is a fucking travesty. To welcome it is shameful.

[missionxo]

***FYI*** Gander MT only wants $75.00 for a transfer............

[sneakerd]

Just an fyi- While I strongly disagree with many things said in this thread and others- I get it, I really do. I was on the other side of the counter up until about a year ago, I'm 53 and have been shooting my entire adult life, so I have seen and dealt with what you guys are talking about. You all are teaching me something. I personally will try to improve in my grumpy moments. On another point, a couple of current examples of FL's "high prices": Today we sold a NIB Kel-Tec PMR-30 22 magnum for $399.95 out the door. Right now (the store is closed) there is a NIB Rock River LAR 8 Carbine (308) on the rack for- wait for it............. $1439.95. Beat those prices... anywhere. I dare you. No they are not specials or tricks. FL prices for those guns.

[Great-Kazoo]

Just an fyi- While I strongly disagree with many things said in this thread and others- I get it, I really do. I was on the other side of the counter up until about a year ago, I'm 53 and have been shooting my entire adult life, so I have seen and dealt with what you guys are talking about. You all are teaching me something. I personally will try to improve in my grumpy moments. On another point, a couple of current examples of FL's "high prices": Today we sold a NIB Kel-Tec PMR-30 22 magnum for $399.95 out the door. Right now (the store is closed) there is a NIB Rock River LAR 8 Carbine (308) on the rack for- wait for it............. $1439.95. Beat those prices... anywhere. I dare you. No they are not specials or tricks. FL prices for those guns.

. Thank (insert deity of choice) you aren't selling $900 per K 223 ammo or some other shit anyone would take offense at. But i guess 30 round magazines made locally trump that high priced ammo. YET some of the same people have shit 4 sale even i cringe at. Think i'll low ball some shit just for S&G's

[DeusExMachina]

I would appreciate a heads up next time one of those PMRs roll through. ;)

[sneakerd]

Jim- You must mean....... Jensens!? [Poke]

Dues- no offense, but what diff does a heads up make if you'll never step foot in FL ever again?

[DeusExMachina]

Jim- You must mean....... Jensens!? [Poke]

Dues- no offense, but what diff does a heads up make if you'll never step foot in FL ever again?

Well, I know someone who's been wanting one, but I guess I'll tell them to shop elsewhere too.

[sneakerd]

Oh come on man. You threw the first jab, I simply countered. We've met and talked, go get your sense of humor back out. Don't you see how your last 3 posts are somewhat..... can't even think of the word. Absolutely nothing personal and I would buy you a beer anytime.