View Full Version : Anti-gun merchants/locations
Aloha_Shooter
05-15-2008, 16:50
I thought it would be useful to post a known list of anti-gun merchants and locations both for general awareness of where CCWs can carry and in the event anyone wants to use their First Amendment rights to protect their Second Amendment rights.
A couple years ago, I noticed the Cinemark theaters at Colorado Springs' First and Main Town Center had a sign up saying "No Firearms Allowed". I e-mailed the mother company asking if this was general company policy or just that location and received no response so haven't gone to Cinemark in the past year or so. I ventured past there this week to see if anything had changed; it hadn't so I turned back around and started walking out when I noticed one of the large signs outlining First and Main policies.
Turns out the entire First and Main Town Center is a declared "No Firearms" location with the only exception being firearms purchased there (and then you have to take them directly to your car and leave the premises). It's a shame because I like the restaurants and a couple stores there but I think I'll be taking my business elsewhere.
Any other merchants or locations people are aware of?
It's a bit out of date http://rmgo.org/merchant/
Judging by the fullness of their parking lot, I can see why no reply was sent. Not that I darken the door of any of those stores anyway.
Wait though, isn't there a pizza place there that has a connection to someone on here?
HunterCO
05-15-2008, 22:23
I never pay attention to any signs since they are not worth the material they are printed on. If they post a no gun sign and I ignore it I am not breaking any law.
At the same time I do agree that if you see a sign I will boycott them also out of principle even though the sign means nothing under CO law.
centrarchidae
05-17-2008, 01:38
The movie theater at the Westminster Promenade also has one of those "no guns or weapons" signs. I'd feel worse about it if I could find a movie worth eight bucks plus popcorn.
The Bonfils blood center in Westminster on 121st or thereabouts also has a sign, but when I last donated my jacket came open, everyone saw mine, and nobody seemed to really care.
Bass Pro Shops in Commerce City has a sign and actually seems to mean it. A friend of mine caught a ration of crap from a cashier as he was trying to pay for about a grand worth of fishing tackle. He ended up leaving it at the register and walking away.
SigsRule
05-17-2008, 09:05
The Sportsmans Warehouse in Aurora has big signs saying check in all firearms at customer service and make sure there are no loaded firearms in the store. Then if you look a little farther on the same wall there are smaller signs that say the policy doesn't apply to CCW permit holders legally carrying.
Too bad about the Bass Pro shops since they give a 10% discount to anyone with a military ID card. Of course I've carried in there anyway with no problems since as HunterCO said the signs are meaningless unless they enforce it with metal detectors at every entrance as the law requires.
Gander Mtn is the same...just walk up to the customer service desk at the front door in both cases, they will ask you to open the chamber, then either slap a sticker on it or have you fill out a check in card that you need to return to them when you leave...
These are places who are Anti-gun merchants/locations I've encountered:
Level(3) Communications @ Broomfield
Costco @Aurora
Honestly, unless there is an armed guard and permanent metal detectors, I just don't pay attention outside of the typical Schools, State Government ect.. they can always ask me to leave, at that also lets me know I'm not concealing as well as I'd like. I know for a fact today I was printing when I bought stuff at JCPenny's and the clerk got a bit wide eyed but said nothing.
Honestly, I think most folks when and if they see us print, just assume we're cops or something.
Shhhh. Don't blow our cover. ;)
They frisk folks entering Invesco Field, have wands at Coors Field, and have metal detectors at Pepsi Center.
TINCUP AL
05-19-2008, 10:31
I agree with HunterCo and Badshot.
"No Firearms" signs in stores? I've never noticed one before [Wink]
Like BadShot said...
pickenup
05-19-2008, 14:25
I have "heard" that Colorado Mills Mall has signs.
Only been there once, and didn't have my reading glasses on.
Sign, what sign?
Sorry, couldn't read it.
Wha...Sign? I'd didn't see a sign?
http://static.flickr.com/7/7831774_29aaa80545.jpg
The movie theater at the Westminster Promenade also has one of those "no guns or weapons" signs. I'd feel worse about it if I could find a movie worth eight bucks plus popcorn.
The Bonfils blood center in Westminster on 121st or thereabouts also has a sign, but when I last donated my jacket came open, everyone saw mine, and nobody seemed to really care.
Bass Pro Shops in Commerce City has a sign and actually seems to mean it. A friend of mine caught a ration of crap from a cashier as he was trying to pay for about a grand worth of fishing tackle. He ended up leaving it at the register and walking away.
Concealed means concealed - "To keep from being seen, found, observed, or discovered". If you're carrying lawfully, the general public shouldn't know. Opening your coat and revealing your weapon and somehow allowing a cashier know that you're carrying are unacceptable IMO. I don't know you but I hope you're not getting off on a power trip by flashing your weapon all over the place. Granted, accidents happen but your tone sounds so nonchalant.
As for the lists, I know I've seen them in the past but can't seem to find any at the moment. I think The Waffle House can be added to the list but I wouldn't go in there to use the phone.
westy1970
05-19-2008, 23:04
Jared Jewlers in Loveland has a sign and an armed guard. I may be willing to give a Jewlery store with a nervous security guard a bit of space and just leave. I can understand why THEY would have a policy, but I would either find a different jewler or just not print.
Of course a boycott only works if you let them know you are going there and why.
spqrzilla
05-20-2008, 23:06
Gander Mtn is the same...just walk up to the customer service desk at the front door in both cases, they will ask you to open the chamber, then either slap a sticker on it or have you fill out a check in card that you need to return to them when you leave...
Gander Mountain is not the same as Sportsman's Warehouse. Sportsman's excepts concealed carry from their requirement to check in firearms. Gander Mountain's sign used to except concealed carry, but has recently changed to emphasize "all" firearms.
I told the manager I was no longer patronizing them and the attitude seemed to be good riddance.
I never pay attention to any signs since they are not worth the material they are printed on. If they post a no gun sign and I ignore it I am not breaking any law.
Not true. Colorado's concealed carry law (and open carry law) both require you to honor any business establishment's signs indicating no guns allowed. If you get caught carrying concealed in a business posted no guns, even with a CCW permit, you get charged criminally and will lose your permit.
Going to disagree with you, they can ask you to leave and if you fail to you are trespassing.. no more, no less. Unless they fall into the prohibited properties specified in the statute. Then again, I'm always open to statutory references for your position.
HunterCO
05-22-2008, 18:01
Not true. Colorado's concealed carry law (and open carry law) both require you to honor any business establishment's signs indicating no guns allowed. If you get caught carrying concealed in a business posted no guns, even with a CCW permit, you get charged criminally and will lose your permit.
You are wrong my advice would be to have a lawyer explain it to you. I will not be criminally charge much less loose my permit. If I ignore a sign I am not breaking any law period.
As Badshot stated all they can do is ask me to leave. If your stupid and refuse to leave you can be cited for tresspassing and you still will not loose your permit.
You are wrong my advice would be to have a lawyer explain it to you. I will not be criminally charge much less loose my permit. If I ignore a sign I am not breaking any law period.
As Badshot stated all they can do is ask me to leave. If your stupid and refuse to leave you can be cited for tresspassing and you still will not loose your permit.
I am new here and maybe should pick a different topic for my first post, but I was under the impression that you were breaking the law if you ignored the "No Wepons" signs. I went back and looked at the CO Statutes (http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/relatedstats.asp) and I could not find anything requiring you to honor those signs.
When I took my class last year, the class was for the Utah and CO permits. Utah, does require you to honor a posted sign in some instances (places of worship come to mind). I think that was the source of my confusion.
FWIW,
MBL
Don't worry MBL .. Hunter is just a bit brash from time to time.. me too, but you're still very welcome to chime in.. it's these conversations that educate all of us any way we look at it, so lets keep talking. Seriously if there is something that covers the signs, I don't think there is, but if there is, we should discuss it. Edu-mua-caa-shun is important to all of us!
DeltaKilo
05-24-2008, 12:34
Don't worry MBL .. Hunter is just a bit brash from time to time.. me too, but you're still very welcome to chime in.. it's these conversations that educate all of us any way we look at it, so lets keep talking. Seriously if there is something that covers the signs, I don't think there is, but if there is, we should discuss it. Edu-mua-caa-shun is important to all of us!
I would certainly like to know more. Back in Michigan they didn't have provisions for no-gun signs, but they had a laundry list of specific places you couldn't carry. Here in CO, I was told that you had to disarm with a no-firearm sign. If that's not the case, I'm happier for it,
It isn't the case here .. if they ask you to leave and you don't you are trespassing.. the statute clearly identifies the places you cannot carry. Schools (including most universities and colleges) State and Federal buildings, any office of a state congressman/senator and facilities with signs and permanent metal detectors/security personnel... I think there might be a few more things, but someone can post the restrictions. I think we've had the list before, but it would be nice to have it again in a sticky post!
It's legal on colleges and universities but against most school policies.
spqrzilla
05-24-2008, 19:47
It's legal on colleges and universities but against most school policies.
The statutes specifically state that CCW carry is illegal on K-12 schools. The statute does not forbid carry on university / college campuses.
However, the University of Colorado has adopted regulations that make it a crime to carry on CU campuses and property, and the Attorney General issued an opinion that supported that policy, citing to the Colorado constitutional provisions that allow the University of Colorado to govern itself.
So you are at risk of a criminal prosecution if you carry on CU property, and there is a good possibility of the conviction being upheld.
http://www.ago.state.co.us/agopinions/AGO_PDFs/AGO03-3.pdf
I'll have to read up on that later, thanks for the link.
Auraria campus (CU Denver) policy states a first time offender will be escorted off campus for if you have a permit. Doesn't specify what would happen to second time offenses.
I heard a talking head show about the efforts to change this policy at all University of Colorado campus's and in the story they cited that the Ft. Collins CSU campus does not have a anti-gun policy, e.g. it's OK with them for CCW holders to carry on property.
Anyone have the low down on State Parks? If my memory serves it's not OK to open carry. I do know that the Dept of the Interior is going to change the rules for Federal lands (BLM, Refuges, parks and forest) to conform to state laws.
You are wrong my advice would be to have a lawyer explain it to you. I will not be criminally charge much less loose my permit. If I ignore a sign I am not breaking any law period.
As Badshot stated all they can do is ask me to leave. If your stupid and refuse to leave you can be cited for tresspassing and you still will not loose your permit.
I had the city attorney explain it to me when I was in the police academy. I also teach NRA courses and we have an attorney explain it the same way to students.
Sorry, but you are violating the law.
spqrzilla
05-25-2008, 23:13
I had the city attorney explain it to me when I was in the police academy. I also teach NRA courses and we have an attorney explain it the same way to students.
Sorry, but you are violating the law.
Which law? To be charged with a crime, the prosecutor will have to cite a statute.
HunterCO
05-26-2008, 19:06
Which law? To be charged with a crime, the prosecutor will have to cite a statute.
+1 show me and the rest of us the statue that states it is illegal for me to carry a firearm on to private property that is posted no firearms allowed.
Since I ignore them all the time I guess I'm an outlaw. [Tooth]
Just for the record I come off harsh sometimes and I don't mean it that way sometimes it just comes out that way.
As far as city, county or state parks that have regulations saying no firearms. That only applys to open carry if you have a permit and are carrying concealed it is 100% legal.
spqrzilla
05-26-2008, 20:35
+1 show me and the rest of us the statue that states it is illegal for me to carry a firearm on to private property that is posted no firearms allowed.
Since I ignore them all the time I guess I'm an outlaw. [Tooth]
Actually, I'd enjoy seeing a citation. I can think of a possible charge but it has problems. If someone actually told him this, I'd like to know the reasoning.
As far as city, county or state parks that have regulations saying no firearms. That only applys to open carry if you have a permit and are carrying concealed it is 100% legal.
That's an overly broad statement. Denver is currently asserting that their regulations supercede the state law on the grounds of home rule. There is a substantial probability that they will prevail. So violation there has a risk of conviction.
HunterCO
05-26-2008, 21:23
That's an overly broad statement. Denver is currently asserting that their regulations supercede the state law on the grounds of home rule. There is a substantial probability that they will prevail. So violation there has a risk of conviction.
Read the court ruling the home rule does not apply to CCW. ;)
The judge ruled it can apply to open carry and assualt weapons thats it.
gnihcraes
10-16-2009, 22:49
Update on Colorado Mills: I did finally find the sign of rules and regulations by one door, not sure if it's posted by all doors or not yet. Small sign, Small print:
...weapons of any kind open carry, or concealed, with or without permit is prohibited... Bummer. I'll check some more entrances next time I'm out there.
kc.
Great-Kazoo
10-22-2009, 07:59
Read the court ruling the home rule does not apply to CCW. ;)
The judge ruled it can apply to open carry and assualt weapons thats it.
That ruling ONLY counts towards Denver city & County residents. If you are not a resident of either pay no attention. (Vagueness) The ruling was passed when Denver was fighting the AW based on home rule superceding state law.
+1 on the law regarding a posted sign. The NO GUNS signs are usually placed by either Chain or local mgt policies. It is not a state or local municipality enforced law.
Besides, unless the sign is as large as the stores signage i could not see it.
I see any small signage as some poster announcing a blood drive or charity event, just like any other paper hanging in a window. Especially in a college town like Ft Fun
MuzzleFlash
10-23-2009, 04:42
You are wrong my advice would be to have a lawyer explain it to you. I will not be criminally charge much less loose my permit. If I ignore a sign I am not breaking any law period.
As Badshot stated all they can do is ask me to leave. If your stupid and refuse to leave you can be cited for tresspassing and you still will not loose your permit.
I was told Sheriff can revoke your permit for repeated violation of posted premises. You have a right to judicial review with his golfing buddy judge should you choose to appeal. In other words, the "naked man" provision the Colorado Sheriff's Assn. got put into the law can be used to deny issue or renewal or to revoke or suspend the permit. CRS 18-12-203 3(a) and 18-12-207
Update on Colorado Mills: I did finally find the sign of rules and regulations by one door, not sure if it's posted by all doors or not yet. Small sign, Small print:
...weapons of any kind open carry, or concealed, with or without permit is prohibited... Bummer. I'll check some more entrances next time I'm out there.
kc.
as kc said small sign. it is not on the door but off to the side on the wall. I all most needed my glasses to read it. Can't see how it would hold up in court since you have to go looking for it on purpose. tom
The Extractor
11-01-2009, 17:54
ignorance is no excuse is what they would tell you.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-01-2009, 21:07
A few things..
I notice that the local Home Depot doesn't seem to have any anti-CCW that I can find, but they do have a "No-dogs" sign, which everyone ignores and brings their dogs in, all the time, 2-3 dogs at a time in there at a time on the weekend. I wonder how much of a defense it would be if you were to show that a place had this set of rules, but that the management didn't enforce them?
If on the door going in, they have all the usual red circle/strike pics, but they don't have one for guns, but on the 2x3 eye-test/rules board they do, how effective a defense would it be that you saw the big red signs, so you didn't think to look for the off axis sign. Be interesting to show how long on average people are in front of the big sign as they walk in, and flash a pic of it to the jury for that amount of time.
I hate sitting there staring at the eye-test/rules boards since looking for an answer, because I have to think that is a red flag to security people.
Why would reading posted things be a red flag? Aren't they usually posted next to, or near, the map of the mall anyway?
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-01-2009, 21:20
All the rules boards I've seen, for malls at least, are usually right by the front door, before you even get in. Maybe in the inter-door area. I wish they were by the maps inside , since then I could say that I never walked past them. So there I usually am, in front of the door, scanning for the word 'weapon' pretending to fiddle with my phone.
Dalendenver
11-06-2009, 02:13
My legal opinion is that the statute says what it means. In order for the public place restriction to be valid they must have security personnel in place, electronic screening equipment in place, and screen everyone that enters.
(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;
(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and
(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.
I was in the Adams County courthouse on Monday, they don't screen attorneys so I walked right past the screening area without any challenge. In my opinion this means that you can carry a concealed weapon there because they don't screen "each person who enters the building".
gnihcraes
11-06-2009, 10:29
I wish it was interpreted that way. Because I'm an employee with a badge, I don't get screened at work, but they screen everyone else. Doesn't mean it's legal for me to carry into the building. It really depends on the City/County/Sheriff and how they want that building handled when security people and screening devices are present.
The law states "at every entrance" so if there is an employee entrance that you must enter using a card key or badge, but is not screened by anyone or equipment, is it cool then to ccw? (I have these questions every day when I go to work...) I get varying opinions on this when asking. (and not trying to lose my job in the process)
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